amo_mea_filiis. Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I have chosen my battles carefully. I will win this battle. I will rise up as the more stubborn person. Dd WILL finish her math packet today and she WILL take the year end test tomorrow. Right now she is drawing on the back of the math pages. She can't finish if i take away the pencil. I can't glue the papers down to prevent her from flipping and drawing. I do know that as i print next year's materials, it will all be double sided. I am posting to remind myself to breathe. I may hang out at the library today. I'll stick her at the table in front of the librarian and the work will be done! I do not care who makes it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Rise up! My rising up as the more stubborn person often involves near head-spinning on my part, and hard labor on theirs. I always win, but it can be exhausting for all involved. Sigh. Why can't they get it that their lives would be so much easier if they just did their work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 It's going to be a looooong day! In almost 40 minutes, she has not completed a single problem. Now she's telling me that humans did not evolve to do math and that in an Amish society, she'd already be married. I'm not engaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 It's going to be a looooong day! In almost 40 minutes, she has not completed a single problem. Now she's telling me that humans did not evolve to do math and that in an Amish society, she'd already be married. I'm not engaging. :lol: My Amish friends' kids have math homework. And don't marry until well after they're 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inoubliable Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 It's going to be a looooong day! In almost 40 minutes, she has not completed a single problem. Now she's telling me that humans did not evolve to do math and that in an Amish society, she'd already be married. I'm not engaging. Tell her that in an Amish society, her butt would have been up for hours already and done multitudes of chores and to get cracking on the math. Kids. They're really neat some days, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I'm going through the same thing here, sans drawing on the back of the page. Was this designated "Let's Not Do Math" month by the National Homeschool Kids Assoc.? Because it feels like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I'm rooting for you! Stand strong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 She's 12. This is MM2!!! If it's boredom, i do not care. She's done tomorrow. I need some duct tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peplophoros Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Tell her that in an Amish society, her butt would have been up for hours already and done multitudes of chores and to get cracking on the math. Kids. They're really neat some days, huh? Awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I love her excuse! Hang in there -- I hope she gets done soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I'm going through the same thing here, sans drawing on the back of the page. Was this designated "Let's Not Do Math" month by the National Homeschool Kids Assoc.? Because it feels like that. Word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 I'm going through the same thing here, sans drawing on the back of the page. Was this designated "Let's Not Do Math" month by the National Homeschool Kids Assoc.? Because it feels like that. How did they contact each other? Dd has no internet access! They must have a secret society with some secret codes. Maybe star alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 So we left therapy, ran home for a minute and she tried to go back to sleep. We're now at the library and she has finally (i think) started her work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang!Zoom! Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I have chosen my battles carefully. I will win this battle. I will rise up as the more stubborn person. Dd WILL finish her math packet today and she WILL take the year end test tomorrow. Right now she is drawing on the back of the math pages. She can't finish if i take away the pencil. I can't glue the papers down to prevent her from flipping and drawing. I do know that as i print next year's materials, it will all be double sided. I am posting to remind myself to breathe. I may hang out at the library today. I'll stick her at the table in front of the librarian and the work will be done! I do not care who makes it happen. How would you feel if your daughter was in a school setting in a and you walked in and observed this situation with someone else at the helm of guiding her education? How would you feel toward that educator? The same? Different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 How would you feel if your daughter was in a school setting in a and you walked in and observed this situation with someone else at the helm of guiding her education? How would you feel toward that educator? The same? Different? I have no idea. I'm not *doing* anything other than sitting here quietly frustrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 okay I get taht you expect her to finish this year's curric by tomorrow. You mention next year's math program. Are you starting that next week? Next fall? The reason I ask is if she was trying to go back to sleep maybe she is actually tired and so math is not going to happen right now. What would be wrong with taking a nap and doing it again after? or postponing for 1 day and having her do the test on saturday or monday etc? I get that at some point we have to say the work will be done, now. period. I have had those times, I have also waited for my child to finish the work assigned. But what I have found working better than sitting there waiting for them to finish which always turns into a battle of wills anyway is for me to move on. Yes they get up and leave the table, yes they think they pulled a fast one but they actually complete it faster than they used to. I do this for all subjects except their online ones since those require they obey their tutor. SO for example. yesterday I assigned some reading in their science text book, complete with writing out definitions and a hand full of student questions. ds14 thought he could ignore me and read a novel and check his email etc. I went about my business doing chores, teaching the other kids etc. I would remind him of his assignment but then continue on with my stuff. He thought he was so clever that he hadn't done the assignment all day. Until he wanted something from me. So when he asked to go outside to play, nope you are not done you assignment. What's for dinner? don't know, not cooking until you are done. It's your turn to use the computer? no I don't think so you ar not done your assignment. Well he got it done pretty quickly by that point. Took him about 30 minutes and done. In the meantime my chores were done, the other kids were done school and were off playing, and I was not stressed or frustrated at all. He knows his obligations, he knows his goals, he is admittedly lazy. I won't play the game and I will no longer waste time waiting on one while neglecting the 3 and chores. If he is tired, he is welcome to go lay down and have a nap. The extras do not happen until the schooling is done, but if he is feeling that tired I would rather he sleeps for a bit and wakes clear minded than keep pushing with a kid growing crankier and me more and mroe frustrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Why are you sitting there silently staring her down for 40 minutes while she does nothing? What would happen if you engaged her and helped her? What if you worked out the problems together on the whiteboard, both of you up on your feet and talking about the problems as she learns to solve them? Better to have 15 minutes of work in a truly engaged manner each day, than hours (months? years?) of drawing on homework papers while Mom sits nearby frowning. Why is she only in second grade math at age 12? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 Swell- that was how most of this week looked. She procrastinated the week away. New math is planned for monday. Her gerbil tank was cleaned. She did vacuum her room. But otherwise nothing else got done. She even took out a huge biography on Walt Disney in an attempt to continue her procrastinating. She had the week's assignments in front of her on monday. She knew she only had a few pgs of math each day and knew she would be done at the end of the week. She chose to ignore most everything. She completed two pgs on monday, nothing tues, nothing wed, but is now mad at ME that the math piled up. Her being mad at me for "giving her more" math is part of my stubbornness. I did not keep adding to the pile! I broke the pile up for the week and paper clipped each day's work. It was very clear what was expected from her this week. Having been through a curric with her, i know our trouble spots and have planned next year with that in mind. It's been just over 3 hours since i made it clear the work was to be done, and she has actually made some progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 Why are you sitting there silently staring her down for 40 minutes while she does nothing? What would happen if you engaged her and helped her? What if you worked out the problems together on the whiteboard, both of you up on your feet and talking about the problems as she learns to solve them? Better to have 15 minutes of work in a truly engaged manner each day, than hours (months? years?) of drawing on homework papers while Mom sits nearby frowning. Why is she only in second grade math at age 12? We've tried the whiteboard but she has no interest. If i try to engage her or work with her, the only topic she speaks about is her anime. This is worked into our next year's curriculum. I pulled her from ps at 5th grade. She was doing "fine" according to all reports. She tested into 2nd grade math. I don't know why. I retested her a few times and she made the same mistakes. She's flew through it and we were able to easily work through the stumbling blocks. We're at the tail end. She's actually doing the the review pages now. After she finishes, she'll be promptly rewarded with a package of seaweed crisps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang!Zoom! Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 After she finishes, she'll be promptly rewarded with a package of seaweed crisps. I think this might be part of the problem. :leaving: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 I think this might be part of the problem. :leaving: Lmao. She actually begs for them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 She's done!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inoubliable Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 :hurray: Break out the seaweed crisps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 She finished them before we got home! She's not even napping now. She's reading the WD biography and playing with her gerbils. I really thought she was going to walk in and nearly pass out. Ds read 2 books while we were there (a little boy walked up to ds with a book, and ds read it to him!!!). I read a bit of Jurrasic Park. Now i have to clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen3kids Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 And if she's anything like mine, she'll say, "I don't know why I made such a big deal about it. It wasn't even hard and I wasted so much time!" :huh: :cursing: :banghead: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 And if she's anything like mine, she'll say, "I don't know why I made such a big deal about it. It wasn't even hard and I wasted so much time!" :huh: :cursing: :banghead: That's what mine does. I just won't engage. I said to them I help those who help themselves an awful lot though, meaning if you sit down and try I will be there and help you as needed. But ds14 is known for pretending to try just to have someone(me) do it for him. SO for him it works to disengage. Question for further clarification though Amo. You have said in the past that your kids are on the spectrum right? aspergers or something? Teaching one with spectrum as you know is different and what works for a neurotypical kid even a 12 year old would not work for spectrum kids. My son is not spectrum but has many similarities with it and if I gave him a list at the start of the week of his weekly assignments I would have not just a procrastinator but one melting down due to the feelings of being overwhelmed with that list, even now at 14. What works better is a day by day list (workboxes are even better because they are tangible). The other thing I have found useful is to have both a weekly used with child in planning, and a daily. So for example, Son does several online classes that have reading assigned. So when he is in class and gets his homework for the following week they will say read chx-y or read 1/2 of book z, etc. So right away I pull out the assigned book and a calendar and we break it down into daily chunks, so he can see it in bite size reasonable peices as he learned to manage his time. It is not a skill that comes easily to him. WHat looks like procrastination can actually be avoidance of something that feels overwhelming. The same is true in many other cases. In math for example, we are zooming through a level to catch up on skills he could not previously do. If I say today you need to watch the video and do pages A,B & D he would freak. So even on a daily to do, it is broken down into smaller bites. Much like the steps with projects in GTD that many here are following. Step 1 watch video , step 2 do page A, check in with mom, do page B, check in with mom, Do page D etc. Each little step written down, as he started erase, or cross off or check mark each item he sees that the task as a whole was very easy. With the science assignment I listed. It was written out for him as follows A) read pages x-y B) write definition for a C) write definition for b D) write definition for c E) do on your own questions qrs on page j F) do on your own questions kl on page n It seems silly to someone who has working executive functioning to need to do that but it is a skill that needs to be actively taught. Yes the pages were quickly done when she decided to, but it sounds like a lot of avoidance on her part. As well here is what she learned today if she is truly just procrastinating: If I refuse to do my work for as long as I can, we get to go to the library. I love the library. AND then just when that vein in mom's neck is about to burst I do teh work quickly and she gives me treats. So win-win for me, mom is a loser. So what I see is that either she played you and won, or she spent the week avoiding what seemed like an overwhelming task with the hope it would go away. Either way she ended up with her mom frustrated and uphappy with her which is not good for the relationship or she ended up proving she can manipulate mom to get what she wants again harming the relationship. Here is what I would do if she were my daughter. Daily lists not weekly. Give her a choice to work together or apart but work needs to be done. If she says together than you only help as long as she is doing and not waiting for you to do it. You tell her right out with perhaps 1 reminder. You are happy to help her but it is not your assignment so she does the work. No library, no treats etc for just doing assigned work, particularily if it is due to her failure to do the work appropriately. Yes you need to stand your ground but as an outsider what I see is a dysfunctional situation and a daughter having a disservice being done, whether it is because she is getting away with manipulation or because she is overwhelmed with the current expectations. Either way it is a disservice to her education and overall upbringing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 I have to reread your post, swellmomma (bad mail day distracting me), but... Our biggest problem has been my letting things go because i feel bad (posted about this a lot). Dd's therapist has been with her for a few months and is fairly sure she's manipulating everyone and at times provokes her brother to "prove the point" that her life is too hard. She's also more than capable of setting the mood and playing with ds when she feels like it. I'm over it. I'm able to separate her issues related to ds vs her issues because she's 12 (and aspie, puberty, etc). I only brought her to the library because i knew she wouldn't dare have a foot stomping tantrum in front of others. It did take her hours while we were there, and she wasnt able to pick out any books or anything. We go over her work for the week and each day. She's just learned that if she holds out long enough, ds will do something to require my attention, and she can go do her thing. It's all incredibly dysfunctional! I've told her therapist that i do not want things sugar coated. When she feels i handled something wrong, point it out! I no longer have to hover to make sure dd gets in the shower, but i do have to go back to hovering for bedtime. She only got the treat because she's lacking motivation. I have a plan to increase everything while decreasing the physical motivators. Winter is almost over. Social activities are going to be consistent again. We have a new behavior therapist starting. It'll get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Okay but then the issue isn't the therapist since the therapist isn't the parent you are. Trust me I get it. I have difficult kids who love to have me distracted by the needs of the other kids BUT at the end of the day I am the mom. It is my responsibility to ensure things were done and done right. My oldest drives me around the bend, somedays are better some days are harder but everyday is a challenge. He is who he is and as he ages he is doing better, much better in fact. BUT that is not only due to his maturity but mine as well. There is a line between seeming as petulant as them and being a firm parent. Yes you need to be firm but when you post that you have to dig your heels in, stare her down, take her to the library so she won't fight with you, and then give her treats after all her bad behaviour you are not seen as an authority in their life. Period. Being a teacher is more than giving an assignment and then waiting for it to be done. Being a parent is more than just making them get through the motions of the day. Yes she should be doing her own work, you shouldn't need a therapist to tell you that. That is obvious. BUT sitting alongside guiding is not the same as doing for her. For example, in a math problem there is several steps even when it doesn't seem it. So sitting alongside and guiding is not giving her the answers, it is talking through each step as she does it. She is still doing the work, you are dialoging the steps. Big difference. One is teaching the other is not. If you believe in your heart she is manipulating you than I recommend putting her into public school to break the cycle. Where they failing her? yes. Are you failing her? yes. So in this case if her education is failing in both locations you chose the one that preserves the relationship and heals the dysfunction. Just my opinion of course, you will do what you feel is right for your family. But I am telling you without an overhaul in yourself all the social activities and therapists in the world can't help because they are not the ones raising your kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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