PachiSusan Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 When we were on our Mediterranean cruise in 2010, we went to Crete. All through our visit to Heraklion and The Palace of Knossos, we kept having this thought that we couldn't get out of our heads, and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere: Just what about the Cretans were so bad that their name is synonymous with "idiot" or "classless and crude". ? You've heard it - "Don't be a Cretan!!!!!" WHY???????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialClassical Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 In the Bible book of Titus a Cretan prophet is quoted saying that his fellow Cretans are always liars, gluttons and evil beasts. Maybe that is part of the reputation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PachiSusan Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 In the Bible book of Titus a Cretan prophet is quoted saying that his fellow Cretans are always liars, gluttons and evil beasts. Maybe that is part of the reputation? You are the first person to even have a modicum of an answer!!! Off to read Titus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Actually the term you are thinking of is cretin and it is not related to the Cretans. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=cretin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PachiSusan Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 Actually the term you are thinking of is cretin and it is not related to the Cretans. http://www.etymonlin...php?term=cretin I don't know - in the same dictionary: Cretan (n.) Old English Cretense (plural), from Latin Cretanus (singular); see Crete. They were proverbial in ancient times as liars; cf. Greek kretismos "lying," literally "Cretan behavior." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Maybe this will help you on your search? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Yep, Paul talks about Cretians in Titus chapter 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Maybe this will help you on your search? It seems that the Cretan quote is not the only phrase Paul took from Epimenides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Actually the term you are thinking of is cretin and it is not related to the Cretans. http://www.etymonlin...php?term=cretin Yep, exactly. Cretin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I don't know - in the same dictionary: Cretan (n.) Old English Cretense (plural), from Latin Cretanus (singular); see Crete. They were proverbial in ancient times as liars; cf. Greek kretismos "lying," literally "Cretan behavior." The word cretin comes from French "Chretien," and it originally referred to someone who was physically and mentally disabled due to thyroid insufficiency — it has nothing to do with lying or with Crete. Most etymologists think it's actually a corruption of the word "Christian," although there are a few other theories — but none of them have anything to do with Crete. They are two completely unrelated words. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PachiSusan Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 So, even though I have the answers, I STILL don't know which one is actually right. LMAO!! Okay - at least I have two reasons/suspects now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 It seems that the Cretan quote is not the only phrase Paul took from Epimenides. I'm not quite sure why you think Paul took the quote from Epimenides. He was merely quoting that a Cretan prophet had said this. I did ask what other phrases Paul took from Epimenides, and if you were referring to Acts 17:28, Paul was talking to the the Athenians and again quoted Epimenides. So I'm really confused now about what phrases Paul took from Epimenides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 So, even though I have the answers, I STILL don't know which one is actually right. LMAO!! The one in the Oxford English Dictionary (and every other dictionary) is right. If you're seriously in doubt, just google "cretinism." It was a medical term in the 18th century referring to congenital physical and mental developmental disabilities. "Cretin" is currently used as slang in a much broader way, in the same way that "retard" is. Cretan and cretin are two different words, just like bear/bare, poll/pole, etc. They are etymologically unrelated. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PachiSusan Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 The one in the Oxford English Dictionary (and every other dictionary) is right. If you're seriously in doubt, just google "cretinism." It was a medical term in the 18th century referring to congenital physical and mental developmental disabilities. "Cretin" is currently used as slang in a much broader way, in the same way that "retard" is. Cretan and cretin are two different words, just like bear/bare, poll/pole, etc. They are etymologically unrelated. Jackie There are two dictionary definitions, am I not right? One regarding the Cretans and the other that is being mentioned "cretin", both of which can be used as people use it today to mean. I'm not in doubt that the second exists - I'm not convinced that Cretan is wrong as referring to the lying people of Crete, like in the Bible. :thumbup1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 The word cretin means vulgar and boorish, which is not at all the same as lying. I have never heard anyone say it with that connotation. And I have never seen "Cretan" in writing except in reference to the people of Crete. If you really want to dig into some research, you could do a google books search on the word "cretan". I did it and checked a number of the references that appeared. All of them referred to the people of Crete, not used the same way as "cretin". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PachiSusan Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 I fold. Thank you for all your help and direction. I have my answer. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in FL. Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I think maybe they licked their fingers when they were eating! : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PachiSusan Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 I think maybe they licked their fingers when they were eating! : ) LMAO!!!!!! :drool5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I meant to say, too, what a wonderful trip that must have been! Do you have any stories or pictures about it on your blog? Sounds like the trip of a lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I think maybe they licked their fingers when they were eating! : ) I would LIKE that 100 times if I could. :hurray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PachiSusan Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 I meant to say, too, what a wonderful trip that must have been! Do you have any stories or pictures about it on your blog? Sounds like the trip of a lifetime. PM-ing you! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm not quite sure why you think Paul took the quote from Epimenides. He was merely quoting that a Cretan prophet had said this. I did ask what other phrases Paul took from Epimenides, and if you were referring to Acts 17:28, Paul was talking to the the Athenians and again quoted Epimenides. So I'm really confused now about what phrases Paul took from Epimenides. I worded my post poorly. It was nothing more than a mental "aha" on my part, meaning, "So that's who Paul was quoting those times." Phrases being equivalent to quotes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Among Greeks today, the Cretans are known as being the wildest and craziest Greeks. ;) Of course "cretin" and "Cretan" are two different words with two different derivations. But the fact remains that Cretans are famous for being wild and crazy, from ancient to modern times. Challenging you to ask any Greek you know about this! I hope no Cretans are offended by this post. Some of my closest relatives are Cretan and we/they like to brag about this, in fun of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I worded my post poorly. It was nothing more than a mental "aha" on my part, meaning, "So that's who Paul was quoting those times." Phrases being equivalent to quotes. Thanks for that clarification. I, too, had the 'aha' happen when reading it all, but I really thought you were implying Paul was claiming someone else's words as his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Thanks for that clarification. I, too, had the 'aha' happen when reading it all, but I really thought you were implying Paul was claiming someone else's words as his own. In those passages Paul does attribute the quotes to someone else, so I didn't have any problem with that. I did find it a little disconcerting that the "In Him we live and move and have our being" quote (incidentally one of my favorites) was originally speaking of Zeus . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 In those passages Paul does attribute the quotes to someone else, so I didn't have any problem with that. I did find it a little disconcerting that the "In Him we live and move and have our being" quote (incidentally one of my favorites) was originally speaking of Zeus . Yes, I know what you mean. I'm quite glad I'm learning to look and read a whole passage now rather than one verse and take it as it looks because often it brings a whole different perspective especially when you know whom people were talking to and about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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