Socio-economics of Family Life!

[Sweetpeach]

Hello Hive,

 

We've had a conversation brewing in our home for approximately six months, and now it's here, front and center, and I'm not exactly sure how to proceed.

 

A quick background about me: My brother and I were raised by a single mama who never made more than 18k in our growing up years. We lived in a small mobile home and understood that family vacations, expensive gifts, lovely furniture, house parties, friends staying over weren't part of our equation. We were mostly happy, and well-cared for and played school sports and did well academically, but I recognized early on that we weren't one of the "rich" families.

 

Fast fwd to our adult life with three children . . . my Mr is a civil engineer employed by the province. He earns a decent salary. Our home is not flashy. It services our needs but it's not pretty, by decorated standards. We drive used vehicles and our furniture is nothing special. In comparison with how I grew up, however, we have got it made in the shade.

 

Our children are on a team which is very expensive and attracts families that seem to have extra money, big houses, fancy cars, expensive toys. Apple laptops and Beats headphones and IPads. You get the picture. The boys have been invited over for evening get-togethers and they come home with wide eyes.

 

I have no problem with "rich" people in the same manner that I have no problem with "poor" people. We all have the money we have and we all decide how we want to live in the context of that dollar amount. I've tried to explain to the boys that we choose this life because I wanted to stay home with them and be present. I couldn't do that working a full-time job.

 

How do you help your children understand money and socio-economic factors and big houses and small houses and how people live or don't live? I have tremendous gratitude for my life. Our needs are met and we have a bit left over to share. We do have a kingdom-grid and I don't believe that the North American path of "spend it if you've got it" is the best philosophy for living but I don't want my children to perceive judgement when we're talking about the big houses and fancy cars. Everyone is living their life. I don't want my kids to feel like they can't cross the socio-economic divide and befriend whoever it is that they like hanging out with and clearly, we don't live in that same stratosphere.

 

If you consider yourself a "middle" person . . . where you've made choices that don't stretch your budget to the ends of the earth but your kids orbit with families that are or kick the perception of wealthy, how do you walk that road in conversation?

 

Warmly, Tricia

[Georgiana Daniels]

Great question! While I don't have a ready answer, I'm interested to hear what others say because we are in a similar situation as you--involved in activities where their friends come from families with money. So far, our kids are too young to seem to notice, except the occasional, "Why can't we ____?" As they get older, I can see this being more of an issue. Thankfully, our oldest daughter was mostly friends with others of modest means, and she herself is content with loving her husband and living simply.

[Onceuponatime]

"Their stuff is not who they are just as our stuff is not who we are. " (This is also very good to remember when you are the one with the percieved advantage.)

"Underneath the stuff we are all naked." :-)

 

We are in the same socio-econimic kind of position. Stuff does seem very important to children if they don't hear messages otherwise, especially when they don't have the same stuff as others.

 

I have at times posted this on the refrigerator, mostly to remind myself of what is important to me.

 

 

Richard Foster’s Guidelines for Simplicity

 

1. Buy things for their usefulness rather than their status

 

2. Reject anything that is producing an addiction in you

 

3. Develop a habit of giving things away

 

4. Refuse to be propagandized by the custodians of modern gadgetry

 

5. Learn to enjoy things without owning them

 

6. Develop a deeper appreciation for the creation

 

7. Look with a healthy skepticism at all “buy now, pay later†schemes

 

8. Obey Jesus’ instructions about plain, honest speech

 

9. Reject anything that breeds the oppression of others

 

10. Shun anything that distracts you from seeking first the kingdom of God (Whatever that means to you.)

 

It is easy to be wowed by other people's stuff, even for adults. I find that providing a nurturing, caring, and engaging environment for my children usually helps to dull those twinges of jealousy. We also spend plenty of time in the company of people who have less stuff than we do. Children are pretty smart, they pick up what you model. I don't worry too much. We also help them realize that they are free to choose to pursue their own path when they are independent of dh and I. For myself, when I get those "poor little me" feelings, I stop and bring myself into the present. What am I truly lacking? (nothing) What is wrong with my life at this very moment? (usually nothing) Can I do anything about it? (then do it.) Otherwise, what was I complaining about anyway?

 

I have recently had to take these life lessons to heart because one of my children is now making more money than dh, and has already begun to accumulate a boatload of stuff. It is a strange feeling.

[Guest]

I think the values you've expressed are exactly what you need to say to the kids when those conversations come up. I do understand this issue, but from a slightly different standpoint. We do have a nice, large home and one "fancy" car (and one basic car). We could be perceived as on the rich side. However, we are quite frugal and have the nice things through hard work and dh's amazing construction skills. My dd goes to a private school. Many of the parents are quite wealthy and are very liberal spenders. DD's good friend is like this. Like - if we were attending something where everyone is supposed to bring a dessert, this family will go to a gourmet grocery store and buy a dozen gourmet cupcakes. That sort of thing. At this point, though, dd (almost 16) understands that this is just different attitudes people have about money. She knows that it would never enter my mind to go buy cupcakes like that. She knows there are no Coach purses, Sweet 16 parties in New York City, iPhones, or whatever in her immediate future. My kids have just grown up with the expression of frugality as a near-constant in their lives. I could afford for them all to have iPhones, but I choose not to spend money in that way. (I don't have one, either.)

[Donna]

My kids are older and we have had this conversation with them often. My dd especially is involved in activities where many of the other families have more material goods than we do. We have explained to the kids that we live the way we do because we chose to. I work two days a week and my husband works when I don't because we wanted to be with them while they were young and homeschool (well, now just dd).

 

I could have put them in school, worked full time, and earned a lot of money. If I had done that, dh would have been able to work a

"normal" job rather then needing to do something where he is home two weekdays. We didn't feel a large house or new cars were important though even on what we make now we could have those things if we weren't doing what we do for our children. We take vacations and we do put a lot of money into our kids' activities because those things are important to us.

 

We have discussed with the kids that different families make different choices in life. Their choices do not make them better or worse people....just different. We have told them when they are grown, they will be free to make their own choices. People have different needs or desires. They have different goals and priorities. I have friends in a number of different economic circles. I think looking at the good in people helps them to see that there are many different ways to live a "good life."

[Sweetpeach]

Posters Above . . . Thank you. Thank you a thousands times.

Your words are helping the anxiety ease off my shoulders and I'm appreciative.

Each post is so thoughtful. I'm going to print them all out and have some great conversations with my big boys.

T

[nono]

I think just say what you've said to us. I am one of those folks who is truly happy for others' prosperity...probably because I've had enough of my own, and realize that to get that prosperity usually takes a lot more work or focus than I'm willing to give these days. I talk about that with my children. And, we talk about how even making the best decision at the moment can lead to unfortunate consequences down the line. Life will throw you curveballs. I talk to them about things I've seen in my life, and stories my Dad told me about living during the Depression. I talk to them about deciding who they are and what makes them happy, and how it ties to their values. I remind them that what makes me comfortable isn't necessarily going to be the "correct" choice for them, so we need to not mimic but find our own way.

 

A lot more of what my parents said to me guided my life than I let on at the time. So, I make sure not to keep my thoughts to myself when it comes to my children.

[Halftime Hope]

1) From the standpoint of a husband, my dh has always told my kids that *usually* the highest paying jobs come with a tremendous hidden cost in terms of health, family life, or some other intangible. Although he is a guy who has enormous accomplishments to his credit, he has always been content to be a well-respected "indian" rather than a "chief" because of the toll it takes. He wouldn't be able to come home to children at 5pm, go to games and concerts, be home on weekends, if he were the chief. The HR statistics for the company he is currently employed with indicate that the average life expectancy after retirement is three years. Can you imagine? Three years!

 

2) I also believe that it is appropriate for us to model frugality. One benefit is that if our children happen on harder times, they won't have such culture shock. My children remember the number of years that we had a hand-me-down dining table, which was a step up from the folding table that served us well for the first 6 years of our marriage. : )

 

3) As my kids have gotten older, we've intentionally bought shared experiences together, made memories together, rather than buying stuff.

[Crimson Wife]

We talk about how everyone has his/her own free will and how Christ said we are to worry about the log in our own eyes rather than the speck in our neighbor's. We need to worry a lot less about other people being materialistic and a lot more about our own covetousness.

[justamouse]

I think just say what you've said to us. I am one of those folks who is truly happy for others' prosperity...probably because I've had enough of my own, and realize that to get that prosperity usually takes a lot more work or focus than I'm willing to give these days. I talk about that with my children. And, we talk about how even making the best decision at the moment can lead to unfortunate consequences down the line. Life will throw you curveballs. I talk to them about things I've seen in my life, and stories my Dad told me about living during the Depression. I talk to them about deciding who they are and what makes them happy, and how it ties to their values. I remind them that what makes me comfortable isn't necessarily going to be the "correct" choice for them, so we need to not mimic but find our own way.

 

A lot more of what my parents said to me guided my life than I let on at the time. So, I make sure not to keep my thoughts to myself when it comes to my children.

:iagree:

 

 

Especially with the bolded.

 

The one thing that I would caution against, is any resentment that might grow, or the idea that everyone deserves...., it's not fair.... because true prosperity (being content in all things) will never come about when those feelings linger.

 

You could also focus on teaching them your priorities, like nono says above.

[Miss Mousie]

Some rambling thoughts:

 

When DS was 4-5 years old, if we were watching football on tv, he would pay attention only to the commercials. Now that we have no tv, I have noticed a LOT fewer "stuff" comments from him.

 

Another reason for that reduction in comments, though, is that he somehow decided we are "poor." I do talk about money a bit, and I must have been unclear about why I don't buy certain things for him to get that impression. Last year he played in the school band, and happened to choose the most expensive instrument. That was fine by me. Then he wanted to change to tuba - another expensive instrument. I told him I didn't want to pay for a second instrument unless he showed me some real dedication to the first one - i.e., practice well and daily without being reminded to do so.

 

Well ... when the whole summer went by and the baritone sat in its case, never once seeing the light of day, I said no to the tuba. He then told the band director that he was quitting because we couldn't afford it. So I tried to make it clear that I do have the money but do not care to waste it. (I also suspect he said that because he didn't want to admit that he blew it, but that's another topic entirely.)

 

I have since taken opportunities to point out to him my choices. For example, I can afford to send him to two camps this summer because I stopped wasting money on cable tv that we rarely watched. Because I don't buy him candy at the gas station, I can afford to take him to Legoland. I try to make a bigger deal out of "this is what I want to do with the money I have earned" instead of "I don't have money for that."

 

I'm sure he doesn't have the full picture just yet, but I think I am making progress.

 

As he gets older, maybe a sophomore in HS, I will share much more with him about the state of our finances and give more thorough lessons on financial planning, but for now it is more important that he know we are stable and secure - without knowing any numbers.

[mrseshaw]

Ds is going on 5 and he has just realized that he can ask for gifts/toys. For example, we went to toys r us yesterday to shop for 3 birthday gifts for parties this weekend. Ds asked several times for something for himself, and I said no, "we don't need this toy for you, we need 3 gifts for, x,y, and z friends". I often say to him that "we only buy what we need". And that phrase has been working very well. I hope that lasts through the teenage years!

I'd like to think that dh and I are doing a good job at modeling frugality... (although I have a long amazon wish list of things I want, including a 2/3 cup measuring cup) dh makes 6 figures, yet I can't seem to spend the money on that measuring cup because I already have two 1/3 measuring cups! I grew up very poor, but never with a hungry belly.

[OrganicAnn]

I read someone's article about when she was a girl, she greatly admired another family who had new cars, white carpet & furniture and vacationed a the beach. While her family had old cars, when on educational vacations including Europe, had a house with eclectic furniture and lots of books. When she grew up, she had a choice of what she was going to be like. She was a used car driving, educational trips to Europe, eclectic decorated house type of Mom. Her point was that sometimes kids get enamored with a different life-style, but will often grow to appreciate the way and values that they were raised with.

[Orthodox6]

So much good writing here already in the thread! I appreciate what I have read here.

 

We have friends and relatives literally all over the map in terms of material life. Homeless friends at one end, wealthy relatives at the other end (who don't pay us the time of day, anyway!). Seeing and knowing people from all socio-economic levels, and knowing that it is "the individual" who matters, has been, I conclude, the best teaching method my children could have had. Our children have thanked us, without solicitation, for having me come home from the work force (which I did when #3 was a year old) and "being here." They appreciate that their father has turned away from job opportunities which would have paid him nearly $250,000 per year, specifically because his family matters more to him.

[Heather in Neverland]

We live surrounded by some amazingly wealthy people and some of the most poverty stricken. We are in the middle.

 

I agree with what most have said:

 

- life is about choices. Each choice you make has its consequences. People in our community travel a lot... On every school break. We do not. That is because we chose to adopt a baby girl and that took up a great deal of our finances, time and energy (and who wants to explore third world countries with an infant?). When my boys asked questions, we would tell them that we made a choice and we think it was a good one but it meant we had to give up certain things. All you can do is decide if it is worth it to you. We all agree that it is worth it. Now she is getting a little older and we may travel more.

 

- my kids actually have quite a bit more things than many of their MK friends do. That has been tough for them as the MKs have openly expressed resentment towards their parents in front of my boys (about always being poor, being forced to live in a dorm, etc.). It makes my boys uncomfortable. It seems some of these parents might need to have more discussions with their kids about choices and consequences.

 

[MedicMom]

I would be honest. It comes at a price. My father makes a great deal of money in the oil and gas industry. There were several years as a pre teen and teen that I only saw him two weekends a month.

 

My DH makes, nationwide, in the top 95 percentile of income for his profession. We are comfortable. He is working the next eight days straight.

 

Everything comes with a cost, financial or otherwise.

[Sweetpeach]

These are all very kind responses. The time is now for the real talks about choices and reminding the kids that their father did give up a lucrative international oil&gas career because he did want to see them everyday and chase their sports on the weekend and help them understand that there is a "cost" to have a parent present and available. One poster above made sure to clarify that our path doesn't have to be their path. I like that. I don't think they are jealous or covetous of the peer group that is wealthier . . . I think they are trying to make sense about how we live (simple, by our standards, at least) and the way others live. Maybe it's the insecure part of me that's wondering if we made the best choice for our kids, in terms of lifestyle. I know we're living the life we want to live and our kids get to decide how they want to live. It feels crazy to me that we're here, having these real grown-up conversations that influence how they might walk into their lives. Such responsibility, and I want to make sure we get ithese conversations "right" if there even is a way to get it right. I really like the Richard Foster list for simplicity. That's great. Thank you for that.

[Guest]

I like everything that everyone's said so far. Let me just add that:

 

We had to stop "talking poor" to our kids. You know, the constant, "Well, we can't afford that." "We just don't have money for that." "Want to travel? Well, that costs a lot of money." "We just don't have money to pay for your college; you're going to be on your own with that." Etc., etc., etc.,

 

Instead, we try encourage them that if there's really something they want to have or do, they need to search for a good deal, be patient and wait for a good sale, save their allowance, think about what could be sold on craigslist or ebay in order to get some cash, or what jobs could they work in order to make some money. I want them to have a good work ethic, but to also feel that goals/wants are possible. I told them that in America, there will always be someone with more, and someone with less. Also, that the pressure to have a lot of nice stuff doesn't end. Ever. They need to look for quality, avoid debt, and be content and realistic.

 

It just takes a lot of conversations and thoughtful consideration.

 

 

I completely agree. My parents "talked poor" and I think it created a lot of resentment in us, the kids. It made it seem that my family was a victim of the system, instead of focusing on a choice to live with less so my mother could be home.

[lmrich]

My kids attended a private school where I taught for a while. In comparison, we were the poor ones. However, I told my kids often that just because someone spends a lot of money does not mean they have a lot of money. It is all about choices. I would rather have money saved for something big rather than buy Starbucks every morning... But that is just me.