Anyone have their bright/gifted kid struggle with Singapore Math?

[SKL]

My kids go to brick & mortar (1st grade) and the school just started using Singapore Math in fall 2012. My youngest took the ITBS in late KG and scored a full year ahead in math (99th %ile). But she is finding some parts of Singapore Math difficult. It just doesn't seem to be intuitive for her. I would not call her "mathy," like those kids who want calculus in 2nd grade, but she normally catches onto concepts very easily, so this is odd.

 

Is it the curriculum? I look at some parts and think, "wow, for a 6yo?" - but then, I don't remember how my brain worked in 1st grade. I mean, "I" get what they are trying to do, but I'm 46. (Other adults around me have had the same feeling about the Singapore worksheets / homework. But none of us remembers being 6 in math class.) Or could it be because she is young for her grade - a maturation thing - despite being bright?

 

Are the kids supposed to be able to do the worksheets independently in 1st grade?

[nmoira]

Can you give an example?

[SKL]

OK, here's an example from this past week.

 

6 + 8 =

/ \

O O

 

__ + __ = __

 

__ + __ = __

 

The child is supposed to go through the following thought process given only the above: 8+2=10; 6 breaks down into 2 and 4; 10+4 = 14.

 

Note, each of my kids has no problem adding 8 and 6 without all that jazz. I realize they are trying to get kids to think in terms of "tens." I just think this type of independent exercise is a little beyond the age.

[Dmmetler]

It may be simply that she's beyond that point of needing to think through it that way, and therefore struggles to work backwards when it's so intuitive to her now-she'd see no reason for filling in that diagram instead of just writing a 14. Of COURSE 6 is 4+2. Of course 8+2 is 10, and 10+4 is the same as 6+8. Doesn't everyone know that? You're a grown up-why are you asking me something so easy?? My DD regularly will do this-she'll jump conceptually beyond the piece by piece strategies taught in the math series, and not need it. Our compromise is that she has to show me, first, that she CAN do it "the book way", step by step, and that she can explain it-basically, she has to teach me how to do it. Once she's shown she can do that, if she wants to do it 100% mentally and just write down the answer, that's great. Because I can't read her mind, and the math book can't read her mind.

 

Since your DD is in school, she probably will just have to accept that sometimes grown ups (and math books) want you to do stuff that's trivially easy for you-because math books (and sometimes math teachers) are dumb that way ;).

[SKL]

It may be simply that she's beyond that point of needing to think through it that way, and therefore struggles to work backwards when it's so intuitive to her now-she'd see no reason for filling in that diagram instead of just writing a 14. Of COURSE 6 is 4+2. Of course 8+2 is 10, and 10+4 is the same as 6+8. Doesn't everyone know that? You're a grown up-why are you asking me something so easy?? My DD regularly will do this-she'll jump conceptually beyond the piece by piece strategies taught in the math series, and not need it. Our compromise is that she has to show me, first, that she CAN do it "the book way", step by step, and that she can explain it-basically, she has to teach me how to do it. Once she's shown she can do that, if she wants to do it 100% mentally and just write down the answer, that's great. Because I can't read her mind, and the math book can't read her mind.

 

Since your DD is in school, she probably will just have to accept that sometimes grown ups (and math books) want you to do stuff that's trivially easy for you-because math books (and sometimes math teachers) are dumb that way ;).

 

That's a good idea, to have her teach me how to do it. Though I have a feeling that is still going to be painful . . ..

 

She has been a pretty consistent "B" student in math so far this year, so this is an ongoing thing - either she makes a careless mistake or jumps ahead of the thought process. You're right, she skips steps she doesn't need, but I don't think she realizes that she's skipping steps.

[nmoira]

 

 

That's a good idea, to have her teach me how to do it. Though I have a feeling that is still going to be painful . . ..

 

She has been a pretty consistent "B" student in math so far this year, so this is an ongoing thing - either she makes a careless mistake or jumps ahead of the thought process. You're right, she skips steps she doesn't need, but I don't think she realizes that she's skipping steps.

 

So much time is spent making tens rather than learning by rote because it's going to be used extensively in mental two-digit addition. You can make it concrete with counters, c-rods, or hops on a number line. Maybe knowing that something bigger and better is coming will make it seem less... pointless?

[Crimson Wife]

I really like the Right Start abacus for this concept. I would recommend getting the RS tutorial set and working on it with her at home, because the "making tens" thing becomes more important with addition & subtraction >20.

[ErinE]

The child is supposed to go through the following thought process given only the above: 8+2=10; 6 breaks down into 2 and 4; 10+4 = 14.

 

I think this is one area where the SM workbook doesn't always build up well to the lesson. My dd6 also scored really high in math, but didn't understand the point of the SM exercise. Math mammoth spent more time making tens so that when dd got to addition within twenty she was prepared and understood the reason for breaking down the numbers. She did it naturally and fussed about writing down all the steps, but I explained, like a PP, that sometimes we do things the workbook way just to show we understand the concept.

[boscopup]

Singapore goes really quick through that concept. Is the teacher having the children use manipulatives?

 

Check out the mental math video on EducationUnboxed.com. This IS a hard concept for a 6 year old, but it is also doable. My oldest struggled with it a bit at first. I had to pull out manipulatives, which I never had to do with any other topic. My middle son picked it up right away, but he had used C-rods a lot, and he very visual.

[acurtis75]

We only use CWP because dd just didn't click with Singapore. I think part of the problem was that she already understood some things intuitively but the Singapore method wasn't as intuitive for her. We just found other things she liked better that were easier to accelerate. If she were in school I would have spent a of time explaining what the worksheets were asking her to do and why so her grades wouldn't suffer.

 

Eta: for context...dd is about to turn 8 and we're just about done with LOF fractions and started mus zeta to learn decimals. It normally takes her 2-4 months to finish a mus book. We did 6 chapters in the last week and a half. We will probably start pre-algebra in a few months. Math has always been her least favorite subject but rapidly accelerating the last 2 years has improved her attitude about it. She is a very fast learner and would be even further ahead if her teacher/mommy was a little more organized and less tired and pregnant over the last few months.

[NittanyJen]

OK, here's an example from this past week.

 

6 + 8 =

/ \

O O

 

__ + __ = __

 

__ + __ = __

 

The child is supposed to go through the following thought process given only the above: 8+2=10; 6 breaks down into 2 and 4; 10+4 = 14.

 

Note, each of my kids has no problem adding 8 and 6 without all that jazz. I realize they are trying to get kids to think in terms of "tens." I just think this type of independent exercise is a little beyond the age.

 

 

She's probably intuitively beyond that and sees no point in breaking up the six into 4+2-- my son would balk at that all the time (still does) when he just doesn't understand why the grown-ups are being sooooooooooooo stupid. The thing is, is that in later years, this skill will be absolutely relevant and key for later mental math manipulations that are quite a lot harder, and getting the automaticity down for that problem *now* is important, even if she doesn't see the point or agree that there is one (it may help if you explain to her that she's doing this now because she will need it for much harder problems later, and this is just for practice, even if it seems easy-- that she needs to practice it until it is as easy as breathing for her).

 

I would dump out a pile of pencils, m&m's or whatever it takes, and have her use those to make her tens. It's a little more fun to manipulate those, and that way if she IS having trouble seeing it, the manipulatives will cement the idea for her and help her get it into her head quickly without making the worksheet take all night long.

 

If you have a bit of time to play with it, C-Rods are also fun, and C-Rods are something you can use all the way to the end of the Primary math series, level 6, and into algebra.

[Nart]

OK, here's an example from this past week.

 

6 + 8 =

/ \

O O

 

__ + __ = __

 

__ + __ = __

 

The child is supposed to go through the following thought process given only the above: 8+2=10; 6 breaks down into 2 and 4; 10+4 = 14.

 

Note, each of my kids has no problem adding 8 and 6 without all that jazz. I realize they are trying to get kids to think in terms of "tens." I just think this type of independent exercise is a little beyond the age.

 

 

My son understands it better when I explain that 10 is such a fantastic number that it rules! The other numbers are jealous and want to be a 10, so they are always stealing from other numbers to make a 10, (or breaking apart to be 10 and another number in case of subtraction). So in 6 +8 the number closer to 10 gets to steal from the other number. So how many does 8 need to take from the 6 to make a 10? Yes, 8 always needs 2 more to make a 10. So 6-2 =4 and then 4 +10 =14. I feel like in SM first grade math I am constantly saying "make a 10", "find a 10", "break it apart to make 10 and another number". The process is going to be similar when you get to subtraction and when you working with adding and subtracting larger numbers. To do well in SM1 you need to automatically know number bonds that make 10 - 1/9, 2/8, 3/7, 4/6, 5/5.

[Tanikit]

I taught my child in a very similar way to Nart and that way she understood what Singapore was asking them to do - to show where the 8 (or whatever number) was stealing the 2 from. She does do it all mentally now without a problem and I would never expect her to write it all out anymore - if she starts counting on then I just ask her if one of the numbers would rather steal something and she comes up with the answer pretty quickly.

[Lecka]

My son is in math in focus at school. He could easily do the problem you showed in 1st grade.

 

However his school has had extensive teacher training and his math block of instruction is 1 hour plus an extra hour on Wednesdays.

 

My thought is that the teacher is not explaining well enough or not spending enough time with manipulatives.

 

Something, though, is that he does come sometimes with something to look at before it has really been covered. It is not always clear when this is happening, though I can tell now that it is my 2nd year seeing the worksheets coming home.

 

Edit: math in focus is a kind of Singapore math... If it happens to be this curriculum, they have pre-tests, and my son can get upset if he can't do everything. But it really piques his interest so I think it is a good practice. But it took me a really long time to figure out their "pre-test" system.

[SKL]

My son is in math in focus at school. He could easily do the problem you showed in 1st grade.

 

However his school has had extensive teacher training and his math block of instruction is 1 hour plus an extra hour on Wednesdays.

 

My thought is that the teacher is not explaining well enough or not spending enough time with manipulatives.

 

 

Yes, it's Math In Focus here too.

 

The teacher freely admits this is hard for her to teach, and she said the Title 1 tutor (who works with my elder daughter) is also flabbergasted by some of the current lessons. (A first-grader is supposed to know they want "6+7 = double 6 + 1"? Who even thinks like that as an educated adult?)

 

I did buy those C-Rods and also a Base 10 set to work on at home. This has been very helpful for my slower kid, and based on how my kids are reacting, I doubt the teacher is doing much with manipulatives at this point in class. Maybe they aren't spending enough time on math in school.

 

But the problem my youngest (gifted) daughter is having is that she is impatient to get through the material, while the teacher is going through it at a snail's pace for the majority of the kids. So my dd works ahead, trying to guess what is being asked, which can be difficult.

 

Because elder sister needs so much help, I rarely work with my youngest on math at home. Maybe I should just go over stuff with her once so if she wants to breeze through it in class the next day, she will at least know what she's doing.

[Lecka]

The teachers are very positive here and make comments about how it is easier for the children

to understand than the previous curriculum. They apparently got a huge amount of training, though, before it started.

 

My son still does a huge amount with manipulatives in 2nd grade, too. They have started bar models with word problems and he has no problem.

 

He is not a great student, so I think it is the curriculum and how it is taught.

 

Hopefully the teachers get used to it and next year is smoother.

 

He comes home with math work on scratch paper, also. So it is not just the workbook pages. I think he is getting extra practice at school but just in the classroom during math block.

[mirabillis]

My son understands it better when I explain that 10 is such a fantastic number that it rules! The other numbers are jealous and want to be a 10, so they are always stealing from other numbers to make a 10, (or breaking apart to be 10 and another number in case of subtraction). So in 6 +8 the number closer to 10 gets to steal from the other number. So how many does 8 need to take from the 6 to make a 10? Yes, 8 always needs 2 more to make a 10. So 6-2 =4 and then 4 +10 =14. I feel like in SM first grade math I am constantly saying "make a 10", "find a 10", "break it apart to make 10 and another number". The process is going to be similar when you get to subtraction and when you working with adding and subtracting larger numbers. To do well in SM1 you need to automatically know number bonds that make 10 - 1/9, 2/8, 3/7, 4/6, 5/5.

 

 

LOVE that! i might incorporate that for my 6 year old who is learning the same thought process (the '8s') in Right Start. LOL!