How do I fit it all in?

[TCoppock]

I am currently freaking out because our 8th grade work is taking from 9:30A-9:30P +++ I am trying to figure out plans for 9th grade and can't figure out how to fit everything in a day. (We will be continuing to the next level with everything next year)

 

We are currently using the following:

Saxon Algebra 1 This take my son about 1 1/2 hours with an A average. Done Daily

BJU DL Life Science This takes him about 1 1/2 hours with an A average. Done Daily

Rod and Staff This takes about 1 hour 15 with the occasional exercise taking longer, also A average. Done MWF

History using TOG This takes about 1 1/2-2 hours, occasionally even LONGER depending on the Accountability and Thinking Questions. I do not grade this, but if I had to place a letter grade it would be an A/B. Done Daily

Geography using TOG Takes about 1 1/2- 2 hours TOTAL. Again, this is not graded but probably a B average. Completed between 2 days

IEW Writing using SICC-B Takes him no less than 1 hour a day with significant hand holding. He is a B/C student here.

Literature using TOG Takes him about 1 hour 15-1 1/2 hours a day He has an A/B average.

Bible using TOG This varies greatly depending on the week/year. It can take anywhere from 30 minutes total to an hour a day+.

Mind Benders We do this 2 hours a week. He is moving along at a steady pace here.

Vocabulary from Classical Roots This takes 15 minutes a day. He makes a solid A here.

 

We've had to cut out:

Art

Music

Latin

Foreign language (French)

 

I want to add in the above plus

TOG Government and Philosophy

Extracurricular Activities

 

My son is very intelligent, but SLOW. He has ADHD and an ASD along with some issues with his fine motor skills. Obviously, the act of writing is slowed down. But he also struggles with organization; he loses his pencils, papers, books multiple times a day. He needs frequent reminders to stop talking and concentrate on the subject at hand. He has trouble if questions ask about what people are thinking/feeling or their motives. I am terrified at this pace he won't make it through university.

 

So I'm wondering, how can I get this all to work. Am I expecting too much from him? Can someone share what a day with their 9th grader looks like broken down into hours?

[at the beach]

I am terrified at this pace he won't make it through university.

 

So I'm wondering, how can I get this all to work. Am I expecting too much from him? Can someone share what a day with their 9th grader looks like broken down into hours?

 

:grouphug: Is it possible your insecurity about his future is resulting in you trying to push him too much academically? I do think you are expecting too much. And is he only 12 as your sig line says?

 

When I look at your schedule, I am overwhelmed.

 

Also, with a child with learning differences, what are you doing to accommodate his needs? Are you allowing him to write on a computer? For concentrating, how long do you expect him to stay on task? I've read that after about 50 minutes, a person needs to take a break. And 50 minutes might be too much for a child with ADHD and ASD. Certainly, I would expect that a child with ASD might have problems with questions regarding what people are thinking/feeling or their motives. He might always have problems with that, and it's okay IMO. I'd be looking at life skills, volunteering, and figuring out his interests. What does HE want to do with his time and his future? These are important questions. You are spending a ton of time on humanities. Is that his area of interest? Are you doing Rod and Staff writing assignments and IEW?

 

Back to your question: How do you fit it all in? IMO I don't think you can fit everything in you are doing and it's too much to even try to do. I would:

 

Figure out his areas of interest and focus more there and cover some subjects in a more basic way--unequal rigor.

 

Remember the importance of focusing on skills and worry less about content.

 

For an 8th grader or even 9th grader, I would be aiming for an hour on each core subject--math, science, foreign language, English and history. Then, I'd have a few light electives like physical education and something else that's fun that he's interested in. If your son loves math, then do more. If science is his passion, then spend more time there.

 

Obviously, this is all JMO.

[snowbeltmom]

My son is very intelligent, but SLOW. He has ADHD and an ASD along with some issues with his fine motor skills. Obviously, the act of writing is slowed down. But he also struggles with organization; he loses his pencils, papers, books multiple times a day. He needs frequent reminders to stop talking and concentrate on the subject at hand. He has trouble if questions ask about what people are thinking/feeling or their motives. I am terrified at this pace he won't make it through university.

 

So I'm wondering, how can I get this all to work. Am I expecting too much from him? Can someone share what a day with their 9th grader looks like broken down into hours?

 

{gently} First of all, yes, I think you are expecting too much from him - he is only 12 years old. I don't think it is healthy to need to work twelve hours a day on school work. I also would reconsider having your son begin high school next year. He is only 12 and would be considered a 7th grader if he were in a traditional school setting. Give him another year to work on his organizational skills, etc. before he starts high school.

[Mom22ns]

I would suggest for high school, you change your thinking a bit. Instead of looking at all the curriculum you want to use, choose classes and credits that your 9th grader will have. Then, see what curriculum you need to facilitate those classes. Toss the rest. It is hard and harsh, but there isn't time to do everything. Your child can't succeed in 10 credits worth of classes.

 

Some suggestions:

Math: sounds like it is going great. I don't know the Saxon sequence to know what is next, but 1 credit of math

Science: If you stick to BJU, then go to Physical Science for 9th and again, you've got a solid credit

Language Arts: You are doing 3+ hours/day. That probably needs to cut back. Is he ready to be done with Rod and Staff? If you can't cut below 2 hours/day, you can give separate credits for writing and literature.

History/Geography/Government: That is 3 credits of history per year. You have to cut that to one or at the most 2 credits. I would give a full credit for history and scale the geography and government to 1/4- 1/2 credit so he gets 1 credit of each over the 4 years of high school

Bible: Sounds like it is under control. 1/2-1 credit. Just have him track the time he spends and base the credit on how long it takes.

Mind Benders fall under logic. I would either give him enough to do 1/2 credit of logic or drop it. He can do them in free time if he wants, but I wouldn't give credit for them.

 

You need to add a foreign language back in. It can be Latin or French, but he will need at least 2 year of it in high school. He will probably need 1 fine arts credit. So, you can do art or music one year or do .5 credit of each.

 

Once you've cut your main subjects back to reasonable amounts of work and time, your ds should have time for extracurriculars again. You have to make some tough choices.

 

Talk to your son! What career is he interested in? What college is he interested in? What degree would he like to get? What high school classes does he want to take? It is time to give him some input. This is his future.

 

As far as what my 9th grader's schedule looked like, I'll start by saying he is AS, ADD and dysgraphic, so I know where you are coming from. He did:

Algebra 1: 1-1.5 hours/day

Biology: 1-1.5 hours/day

World History: 1-1.5 hours/day

Japanese: 1 hour/day

Creative Writing: OYAN 2-3 hours/day

Language Arts: Lit, writing, vocabulary 1-2 hours/day

Band: 3 class hours + practice time each week; local private school + private lessons

PE/Heath: We alternated days, 1 hour/day.

 

I would say he averaged 10 hours/day for school and worked weekends a lot too. He is a slow worker and he loved working on his novel, so that was his choice of how to spend his free time. I didn't require 3 hours of writing per day. In fact, I had to limit him in order for him to get everything else done.

 

ETA: I didn't catch he is only 12. Slow down. Spread what you are trying to do over two years and call it 7th and 8th grade. You can't cram it all in. You just can't.

[Kate in Arabia]

I started out more ambitious for my 9th grader this year and have scaled back. I think I was unrealistic not in what he *could* get done, but in what would be reasonable, kwim? I felt like I was constantly pushing, and that's not what I wanted his hs experience to be. Here's his schedule:

 

English - 1 hr/day

Literature - 1 hr/alternate days

Math - 1 hr/day

Biology - 1 hr/day

Middle Eastern Studies - 1 hr/day

Arabic - 1 hr/day

History - 1 hr/day

PE (karate) - 1 hr/alternate days

 

He also has a Qur'an class that meets 1.5 hrs/4 nights a week, I don't count that as a separate credit

 

This ends up being a really full day. He has small breaks throughout the day (lunch, tea, etc.), but by the time he gets home from class and has dinner it's usually 9pm...he generally has some reading to do and maybe finish up an assignment from earlier in the day. He's earning 7 credits this year, and at the moment I think that's his max. He really really wants to learn German, but I can't find the time in his schedule right now, so it'll have to wait.

 

Oh, and he's 15 (Dec birthday).

[Candid]

I use Tapestry so I know sometimes it can be a BIG. However, let me make some suggestions.

 

First, if your ds is only 12 currently, I would consider very carefully if he should move up to high school level next year or not. It might be wise to take another year at D level in Tapestry and just move forward with your other subjects. This would give him a lot of advantages not just now, but also at the end of high school when he graduates.

 

Next I would look at the add ons and language arts materials you are using. First you've got Tapestry for lit, then you have Rod and Staff and then IEW and finally a vocabulary program. I'd eliminate a lot of this in high school. I'd continue to use Tapestry and do something for writing. I don't know enough about IEW to tell you if that is the way to go or just use Tapestry's assignments with something smaller like The Lively Art of Writing.

 

If you do as I suggest in my first paragraph and hold him back next year, you could take some time to experiment with this to see how it all interplays.

 

Finally, when you do move up to R level material, please use the cutting charts Tapestry provides to help you lower his literature requirements.

[G5052]

Yes, I'd step back the TOG part, the rest is fine.

 

Mine needed some breathing room from 12-13 because they were growing and changing, and I made choices then so that they were done around 4pm at the latest. Those are years of huge change physically and emotionally, and I wanted them to have time to "be." I am a rigorous homeschooler with kids who don't have learning difficulties, but I decided that we wouldn't do longer days and/or evening homework until high school. We are also heavily Latin-oriented, I actually drop grammar from 7th and on during the school year and then have them do a grammar review book over the summer.

 

My 10th grader is doing Omnibus (which can grow like TOG), and I'm so glad that we waited on it for various reasons until high school. He's in an online class with lots of homework and 5-hour semester exams. That is appropriate for high school, but that wouldn't have been a good fit for us earlier.

[TCoppock]

Thank you all for your excellent responses.

 

:grouphug: Is it possible your insecurity about his future is resulting in you trying to push him too much academically? I do think you are expecting too much. And is he only 12 as your sig line says?

 

 

DS is actually 13 now, and will be 14 at the start of our freshman year. (I really need to change my signature line) I'm sure there is a part of me that pushes DS out of fear, but there is also a part of me that sees how bright he is and wants to make sure he is living up to his potential.

 

Also, with a child with learning differences, what are you doing to accommodate his needs? Are you allowing him to write on a computer? For concentrating, how long do you expect him to stay on task? I've read that after about 50 minutes, a person needs to take a break. And 50 minutes might be too much for a child with ADHD and ASD. Certainly, I would expect that a child with ASD might have problems with questions regarding what people are thinking/feeling or their motives. He might always have problems with that, and it's okay IMO.

 

His struggles do not revolve understanding except where noted, which as you pointed out he may never get. I totally understand that and we just take time to discuss the passages and look at words that might describe what the emotion might be. I have had to make concessions for DS mainly in the form of doing some things oral and allowing him to use text to speech for writing longer reports. I map out subjects in 1 hour intervals, which includes time to gather supplies and get water/use restroom whenever needed.

 

Are you doing Rod and Staff writing assignments and IEW?

 

We have been doing double writing because it is probably our weakest area. He is getting stronger, so I could possibly cut down a little here.

 

His favorite subjects have always been literature and history. He has also taken a real interest in his Life Science this year. He isn't sure what he wants to be when he grows up, but he does want to go to university.

 

Back to your question: How do you fit it all in? IMO I don't think you can fit everything in you are doing and it's too much to even try to do. I would: Figure out his areas of interest and focus more there and cover some subjects in a more basic way--unequal rigor. Remember the importance of focusing on skills and worry less about content. For an 8th grader or even 9th grader, I would be aiming for an hour on each core subject--math, science, foreign language, English and history. Then, I'd have a few light electives like physical education and something else that's fun that he's interested in.

 

This is where I think I might be struggling. I am terrified of cutting the wrong thing out. I am trying to cover everything and think I might be burying my son in subjects trying to fill small holes.

[TCoppock]

{gently} First of all, yes, I think you are expecting too much from him - he is only 12 years old. I don't think it is healthy to need to work twelve hours a day on school work. I also would reconsider having your son begin high school next year. He is only 12 and would be considered a 7th grader if he were in a traditional school setting. Give him another year to work on his organizational skills, etc. before he starts high school.

 

Although he is 13 now, I agree the amount of time we are schooling is becoming or rather has become excessive. DH and I have discussed holding him back a year, and that still might be something we consider, but I'm not sure many of his problems will improve. He still needs daily reminders to shower, brush his hair, brush his teeth, etc.

[elegantlion]

I am currently freaking out because our 8th grade work is taking from 9:30A-9:30P +++ I am trying to figure out plans for 9th grade and can't figure out how to fit everything in a day. (We will be continuing to the next level with everything next year)

 

We are currently using the following:

Saxon Algebra 1 This take my son about 1 1/2 hours with an A average. Done Daily

BJU DL Life Science This takes him about 1 1/2 hours with an A average. Done Daily

Rod and Staff This takes about 1 hour 15 with the occasional exercise taking longer, also A average. Done MWF

History using TOG This takes about 1 1/2-2 hours, occasionally even LONGER depending on the Accountability and Thinking Questions. I do not grade this, but if I had to place a letter grade it would be an A/B. Done Daily

Geography using TOG Takes about 1 1/2- 2 hours TOTAL. Again, this is not graded but probably a B average. Completed between 2 days

IEW Writing using SICC-B Takes him no less than 1 hour a day with significant hand holding. He is a B/C student here.

Literature using TOG Takes him about 1 hour 15-1 1/2 hours a day He has an A/B average.

Bible using TOG This varies greatly depending on the week/year. It can take anywhere from 30 minutes total to an hour a day+.

Mind Benders We do this 2 hours a week. He is moving along at a steady pace here.

Vocabulary from Classical Roots This takes 15 minutes a day. He makes a solid A here.

 

We've had to cut out:

Art

Music

Latin

Foreign language (French)

 

I want to add in the above plus

TOG Government and Philosophy

Extracurricular Activities

 

 

 

 

Yes, you're expecting too much. 12 hours a day is on the road to burn out for both of you. I know nothing about TOG, so I'll let those with more experience recommend how to wrangle all those topics.

 

I would drop mind benders and vocabulary. With TOG, he's getting good literature and could do word study from that if necessary. I would not double up on writing assignments, but pick and choose. R&S one week, IEW another.

 

Another thing you need to consider for high school is credits. Most college want 2-3 years of a foreign language, so you'd need to add that back in next year. I would map out a 4 year plan, realizing you cannot do in all or all in one year. Our plan is 7 credits per year. This year we dropped to 6 1/2 to shore up math and writing skills. My son works slow as well. We have so many great subject we want to explore together, but prioritizing has led us cut back for now.

 

Many of the struggles you list with the organization are typical for the age. My ds still talks, is unorganized, lacks focus. Part of it is maturity, part of it hormonal. Growth spurts and brain fog are common.

 

Also, remember the child that enters 9th grade while not the young man that enters university. So many wise women on this board have reminded us repeatedly that 14 is very different from 18-19. This is also a time when regular exercise can be helpful. Again, wise advice from so many here.

 

I would attempt to cut down the TOG requirements, eliminate any busy work, and build in down time for him. I would also try to find your philosophy of education, one to match your expectations, not your fears. Having a sort of mission statement to fall back on has been helpful. I know when to back off or when I'm getting too far from my long term objectives.

[Brenda in MA]

I am currently freaking out because our 8th grade work is taking from 9:30A-9:30P +++ I am trying to figure out plans for 9th grade and can't figure out how to fit everything in a day. (We will be continuing to the next level with everything next year)

 

I would agree with the others that your son seems to be spending too much time on history/geography & lit/writing/rod&staff. If there is any thought of him going into a STEM field, I would not cut back on the math time. I would look at the Life Science and see if you could streamline the work so he's spending only 1 hr/day on that.

 

I would also aim for 1 hr max on history/geography and 1 - 1.5 hrs on all the language arts stuff combined. I don't know what he's doing with Rod & Staff, but I'd look to drop that and focus on the writing. A lot of hand-holding is normal for kids this age for writing, especially with boys (in my experience). I'd also look at what he's doing with the literature. If any of it includes busy work, like worksheets, I'd cut that out or do it orally. If you are not doing this already, can you have him do his IEW writing on topics having to do with his literature reading?

 

I've gone through high school twice now, and it is a lot of work, but we haven't been able to get through it without making some sacrifices. Both of my boys have been interested in STEM fields, so we need to make sure there is adequate focus on math/science. They did a lot of history with SL when they were younger, so we've cut back a bit there in high school. We do the history courses/topics but in a "get'em done" mode. I've also put a focus on writing in their lit/english courses, since they'll need strong writing skills in the future.

 

I think you might need to revisit the idea that you'll use the next level of everything next year. You also will need to add back some kind of foreign language, at least by 10th grade.

 

For an 8th grader or even 9th grader, I would be aiming for an hour on each core subject--math, science, foreign language, English and history.

:iagree: , but I would not cut math back to 1 hour since it builds from year to year.

 

I would suggest for high school, you change your thinking a bit. Instead of looking at all the curriculum you want to use, choose classes and credits that your 9th grader will have. Then, see what curriculum you need to facilitate those classes. Toss the rest. It is hard and harsh, but there isn't time to do everything.

 

:iagree: and I found that to be difficult for me in scheduling/facilitating high school. You really do have to make tough choices on where to focus. The other thing to keep in mind is that I've learned that it's hard to plan 4 years in advance for high school. Sure, you can have a basic idea of what subjects your student will do, but for both of mine, I've had to make changes in the upper high school grades based on what they were interested in and what outside courses were available. It was so much easier in the lower grades to just think, "we're doing Core 3 now, then we'll do Core 4, Core 5, etc. with SL, and it all worked out pretty well. Scheduling high school is much trickier.

 

This is where I think I might be struggling. I am terrified of cutting the wrong thing out. I am trying to cover everything and think I might be burying my son in subjects trying to fill small holes.

 

This does sound like your problem. Just remember, though, that you're only making year to year decisions. If you find you've cut the wrong thing, you can bring it in again the next year, or put a heavier focus on it at that time. If you look at your son's basic skills, math, reading, writing, I'd focus on making sure those are well developed. Yes he'll need to do other subjects, too, but he has a lifetime to learn about history, science, etc. If he has good core skills when he's done high school, he can realistically tackle any subject matter in college and beyond.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[TCoppock]

I would suggest for high school, you change your thinking a bit. Instead of looking at all the curriculum you want to use, choose classes and credits that your 9th grader will have. Then, see what curriculum you need to facilitate those classes. Toss the rest. It is hard and harsh, but there isn't time to do everything. Your child can't succeed in 10 credits worth of classes.

 

At this point I'm taking a bunch of slow deep breaths. DS has always done a large variety of programs, but I can definitely see that as subjects become more complex we need to have more focus on the most important.

 

Some suggestions: Math: sounds like it is going great. I don't know the Saxon sequence to know what is next, but 1 credit of math Science: If you stick to BJU, then go to Physical Science for 9th and again, you've got a solid credit Language Arts: You are doing 3+ hours/day. That probably needs to cut back. Is he ready to be done with Rod and Staff? If you can't cut below 2 hours/day, you can give separate credits for writing and literature. History/Geography/Government: That is 3 credits of history per year. You have to cut that to one or at the most 2 credits. I would give a full credit for history and scale the geography and government to 1/4- 1/2 credit so he gets 1 credit of each over the 4 years of high school Bible: Sounds like it is under control. 1/2-1 credit. Just have him track the time he spends and base the credit on how long it takes. Mind Benders fall under logic. I would either give him enough to do 1/2 credit of logic or drop it. He can do them in free time if he wants, but I wouldn't give credit for them.

 

We will do Algebra 2 next year with Saxon. Physical Science will be started in about 4 weeks, and we will move to Biology probably mid year. DS enjoys Rod and Staff, and it is something he really thrives in so I don't want to cut it out completely. I am considering using the workbook to cut down on time spent, but he still will be doing the IEW, which I feel he needs, and the Literature which he enjoys. I think we can definitely scale back on Geography. The program doesn't seem to be adding much to his learning, and the time could be spent elsewhere. I like the idea of doing a lighter load of subjects over the year to make a complete credit. I am considering dropping to 2 problems a day for Mind Benders. DS will still get the mental exercise the puzzles take, but the time requirement shouldn't be too significant.

 

Also, thank you so much for sharing your sons's schedule.

[TCoppock]

I started out more ambitious for my 9th grader this year and have scaled back. I think I was unrealistic not in what he *could* get done, but in what would be reasonable, kwim? I felt like I was constantly pushing, and that's not what I wanted his hs experience to be.

 

 

Sometimes it's good to know that just because our children are capable of doing things it isn't necessarily the best thing for them in the long run. I don't want him to look back at his childhood with only memories of school, day in and day out.

[8filltheheart]

 

 

Although he is 13 now, I agree the amount of time we are schooling is becoming or rather has become excessive. DH and I have discussed holding him back a year, and that still might be something we consider, but I'm not sure many of his problems will improve. He still needs daily reminders to shower, brush his hair, brush his teeth, etc.

 

I am going to offer a suggestion based on our experience with our almost 21 yos who is a highly intelligent Aspie. I really regret spending so much time on academics. We really should have focused on life skills and done just avg levels of academics. I remember being furious with his psy when he was 14 b/c he told me that it didn't matter what his academic background was b/c if he couldn't function independently and hold a job, then education was moot.

 

It was not until ds was a sr in high school that we were finally able to realize just how much his Aspergers would impact his adulthood. Even now at 21 he is incredibly dependent and we aren't sure if he will ever be completely independent. (It is hard to imagine at this juncture.). And, his psy was right. Being able to make high grades in college courses while not being able to self-regulate does not translate well into employability and independence.

 

 

If I could go back and do it again, life skills and self-management skill would be become highest priority and academics a distant second.

 

 

[TCoppock]

I use Tapestry so I know sometimes it can be a BIG. However, let me make some suggestions. First, if your ds is only 12 currently, I would consider very carefully if he should move up to high school level next year or not. It might be wise to take another year at D level in Tapestry and just move forward with your other subjects. This would give him a lot of advantages not just now, but also at the end of high school when he graduates.

 

Yes, I'd step back the TOG part, the rest is fine.

 

I have considered only moving one or two subjects to rhetoric level with TOG. That way we are able to ease into the higher level work. My question about that is should I really be giving him high school credit if the work isn't high school level.

 

Next I would look at the add ons and language arts materials you are using. First you've got Tapestry for lit, then you have Rod and Staff and then IEW and finally a vocabulary program. I'd eliminate a lot of this in high school. I'd continue to use Tapestry and do something for writing. I don't know enough about IEW to tell you if that is the way to go or just use Tapestry's assignments with something smaller like The Lively Art of Writing.

 

If I'm dropping the grammar program, would just reinforcing it through writing be enough.

[JennW in SoCal]

My son is very intelligent, but SLOW. He has ADHD and an ASD along with some issues with his fine motor skills. Obviously, the act of writing is slowed down. But he also struggles with organization; he loses his pencils, papers, books multiple times a day. He needs frequent reminders to stop talking and concentrate on the subject at hand. He has trouble if questions ask about what people are thinking/feeling or their motives. I am terrified at this pace he won't make it through university.

 

 

I hope you take time to consider what 8 Fills the Heart has posted and what I'm about to post here. We've been there in your shoes, having young teens with learning challenges and trying to figure out how to prepare theme for traditional college. These young teens are now have young adults, so we've got some perspective! From my experience, I can tell you that pushing academics for 12 hours a day is NOT the answer. It will not prepare your student to survive college. Your student needs a much more balanced day so that there is time for other things -- having fun, learning to cook, exploring interests, and figuring out how to be an adult.

 

Life skills are essential. Learning to make a check list and to establish a routine is essential. Learning to cook, do laundry, manage money are tasks that will need to be taught and practiced while at home. Shoot, learning to drive is going to be a monumental task! My ds uses the apps on his smart phone to keep his life organized -- he uses the alarm, checklists, countdown clocks and the calendar. Before the smart phone he used an iPod touch or the computer, and before that it was paper lists. He is the checklist king, and while it isn't a cure all for being an ADHD scatter brain, he stays fairly organized. He does live on his own, on the other side of the country.

 

Developing skills and nurturing talent is equally important, if not more important, that academics. Does your ds have a knack for anything in particular? A life long interest in something? A friend of mine struggled to keep her bright teen in the AP/college track but finally let go when he was 16 because he was miserable. He was only interested in cars. He is now a happy and successful 21 year old student at a world class auto mechanics school. My own ds is about to graduate from a specialized program in technical theater where he is known for his exceptional talent and keen eye for lighting design. He spent the bulk of his time as a teen working in community theaters and volunteering at church.

 

Both these boys are academically bright and capable. They can write a good paper, they have read good books, but they would be miserable in a traditional 4 year university.

 

Accommodations for learning challenges are important and quite legitimate. In a brick and mortar school your child would likely be given some special accommodations for his challenges, whether it is someone to take notes, using a computer to type papers, or extra time for exams. These kinds of accommodations will also be available in college and can make all the difference in the world for some students. Don't think of it as "cheating", or that it is somehow unfair, that your ds has to do it like everyone else.

 

Streamline the academics. Geography IS part of history, for instance -- it does not need to be it's own separate course. Tapestry of Grace is an integrated program -- if you are going to use it, trust in the completeness of it. Grammar and spelling are part of writing and rewriting -- there is no need to use a separate program. And doing double writing isn't necessarily the way to overcome a writing weakness -- time will prove a better cure as with time comes maturity. So much improves after puberty!!

 

This is probably coming across more strident than I had wanted. It is just heartfelt comments from someone who has been there and is soooo very thankful I didn't force my son into the traditional academic box! (In all honesty, I think he was 14 before I let go of trying to make him fit into that box.) You clearly love your son and are doing what you think is best. I hope the perspectives from 8 and me are helpful as you look ahead to high school.

[Lori D.]

So I'm wondering, how can I get this all to work. Am I expecting too much from him? Can someone share what a day with their 9th grader looks like broken down into hours?

 

 

Yikes! That's a heavy load! 9th grade here, with a student with mild LDs in math and writing, took 5.5 to 6 hours. No WAY DS had any brain energy to go longer than that. It would have been pointless sitting, because no more knowledge would have gone into his head -- we all have a limit of how long we can concentrate and really learn!

 

Yes, I had to sit with him and hand-hold a lot in those LD areas -- in fact, all the way into 12th grade with the writing and math. I don't regret it at all, because it really wasn't until about halfway into 12th grade I could see DS -- in his unique developmental timetable -- begin to mature a bit. He had just turned 18yo. Besides, spending that much time together enabled us to discuss bunny trails of real life issues that cropped up. Below are a few ideas. BEST of luck in adjusting! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

- Work at HIS pace.

It's about QUALITY not quantity. And it's about doing what helps your DS learn concepts and put them into practice -- NOT about making yourselves do every.single.problem.or.read.every.book just so you can check off a box. Since DS is a slow worker, then pick *carefully* what you have him do, drop EVERYTHING that is extraneous.

 

 

- Speed up the day.

1. Where possible, just do selected problems, not every.single.one.

2. Do some work orally (grammar, geography).

3. "Double dip" -- count anything written for History as part of the Writing/English credit, and don't make DS also do Writing program that same week he's doing the History writing.

 

 

- Set time limits on the History/Geog. (no more than 4-5 hours/per WEEK) and Literature (no more than 5-6 hours/per WEEK)

Otherwise, you are unfairly requiring more than a credit's worth of work, but not granting that credit. That may mean:

1. Spread out the TOG History, Geography, Literature and take 1.5 to 2 years to complete one level. This is a rich, HEAVY program, so that would be okay!

2. Just do portions of the TOG and drop other portions.

3. Switch to something less rigorous and time-intensive.

 

Again, work with your DS where he is at. Yes, TOG rhetoric level is worth a high school credit -- it is a rigorous program and the rhetoric stage is about right for grades 11-12. So, honestly, I think a 9th or 10th grader doing the rhetoric stage would be doing Honors History, while a 9th or 10th grader doing dialectic stage is right on target. JMO.

 

 

- Condense/Reduce/Drop some of your LA.

1. Grammar

R&S is grammar AND writing. You're already doing IEW. Drop the writing portion. Only do selected problems of the grammar. Or better yet, entirely drop the R&S. Does DS really NEED any more grammar at this point? Usually in high school the grammar is not taught/practiced with exercises, but USED as part of the writing. If the student is a bit shaky at grammar usage & mechanics, then do some sort of lite (10 minute) grammar practice 2-3x/week.

 

2. Writing

And how much writing is DS also doing with TOG? That is a pretty reading/writing heavy program. Don't make him write everything in TOG AND do IEW -- alternate them, or do a unit of IEW, then set it aside for a week or two and spend that time doing a writing project out of TOG. But don't make poor DS do ALL of the writing for both at the same time. That's going to KILL any interest in learning!

 

3. Vocab

Usually this is learned in context of the Literature. However if you really feel you want or must continue with your separate program, then drop it to just 2-3x/week.

 

 

- Science

If you're only going to do 3 credits over the 4 years, you can do about 2/3 credit each year, meaning the amount you spend each day can be less, because you're allowing yourself more time over all to complete the credit. Ours looked like this:

9th = .66 credit Biology

10th = .33 credit Biology, and .5 credit Anatomy

11th = .66 credit Chemistry

12th = .33 credit Chemistry, and .5 credit Physics

 

To simplify the transcript, I listed the credits by SUBJECT, not by date or by grade. So it looked like this:

 

SCIENCE (with labs)

Biology . . . . . . . . 1.0 credit . . . (grade) . . . . completion date

Anatomy . . . . . . . 0.5 credit . . . (grade) . . . . completion date

Chemistry . . . . . . 1.0 credit . . . (grade) . . . . completion date

Physics . . . . . . . . 0.5 credit . . . (grade) . . . . completion date

TOTAL . . . . . . . . . 3.0 credits . . . GPA (cumulative)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I hope you will take all this good advice to slow down and customize your curriculum and goals for your own particular child. He needs a shorter school day and more stuff to do besides school.

[Kate in Arabia]

If I'm dropping the grammar program, would just reinforcing it through writing be enough.

 

I don't know anything about Rod and Staff (or where your ds is in the program); my ds worked through Analytical Grammar in 7-8th grades and is doing their "highschool review" now. Basically it gives about 10-20 sentences a week for him to parse and diagram, and that is it for reinforcement and review. That, plus whatever he gets in writing (and also in studying foreign language, if you pick up a foreign language course you'll get English grammar review built in there as well, imo).

[TCoppock]

Yes, you're expecting too much. 12 hours a day is on the road to burn out for both of you.

 

I'm definitely afraid of this. We have always had a longer school day than most, but it was much more relaxed and fluid.

 

I know nothing about TOG, so I'll let those with more experience recommend how to wrangle all those topics. I would drop mind benders and vocabulary. With TOG, he's getting good literature and could do word study from that if necessary. I would not double up on writing assignments, but pick and choose. R&S one week, IEW another..

 

I can see where we could drop grammar lessons down to light review. I've never considered dropping vocabulary. It doesn't take but 15 minutes a day. We do look up new words in our reading that he can't figure out using context clues, so counting that as word study might work. Should we make flashcards of the new words, or should we just let it be making he continues to look up the word until he remembers without looking? Some weeks we use IEW with our other subjects. For example, this week we wrote a paper on the heart to help him memorize the parts and processes for science. I would assume doing more of this type of work might work better for high school level than keeping everything separate.

 

Another thing you need to consider for high school is credits. Most college want 2-3 years of a foreign language, so you'd need to add that back in next year. I would map out a 4 year plan, realizing you cannot do in all or all in one year. Our plan is 7 credits per year. This year we dropped to 6 1/2 to shore up math and writing skills. My son works slow as well. We have so many great subject we want to explore together, but prioritizing has led us cut back for now.

 

Is 7 credits per year the average pace? I can see where prioritizing will be difficult with such a buffet of good options. Is it frowned upon to do multiple courses light rather than few full credits. For instance, if DS wanted to take music and study sketching, but also wants to take PE and something else all in the same year would it be better to spread the classes over 2 years giving him complete credits or is it ok to give 1/2 or 1/4 credits. With his condition he is either fully engrossed in a subject or the novelty wears off quickly. I could see the benefits for him if smaller credits weren't frowned upon.

 

Many of the struggles you list with the organization are typical for the age. My ds still talks, is unorganized, lacks focus. Part of it is maturity, part of it hormonal. Growth spurts and brain fog are common. Also, remember the child that enters 9th grade while not the young man that enters university. So many wise women on this board have reminded us repeatedly that 14 is very different from 18-19.

 

Thank you for pointing this out. It is hard to believe that so much growing up will occur over the high school years.

[TCoppock]

I would agree with the others that your son seems to be spending too much time on history/geography & lit/writing/rod&staff. If there is any thought of him going into a STEM field, I would not cut back on the math time. I would look at the Life Science and see if you could streamline the work so he's spending only 1 hr/day on that. I would also aim for 1 hr max on history/geography and 1 - 1.5 hrs on all the language arts stuff combined. I don't know what he's doing with Rod & Staff, but I'd look to drop that and focus on the writing. A lot of hand-holding is normal for kids this age for writing, especially with boys (in my experience). I'd also look at what he's doing with the literature. If any of it includes busy work, like worksheets, I'd cut that out or do it orally. If you are not doing this already, can you have him do his IEW writing on topics having to do with his literature reading?

 

History and Literature are his favorites, and I don't foresee him going into a STEM field. DH and I have discussed removing Geography all together or making it a discussion type of learning tied tightly to history. We travel and DS reads and watches the news, so he has exposure to the basics of geography. Again I can see dropping Rod and Staff to review. DS has a pretty solid grasp there. Is high school level Language arts basically just reading and writing? I know for sure I had a grammar book still in 9th grade.

 

:iagree: , but I would not cut math back to 1 hour since it builds from year to year. :iagree: and I found that to be difficult for me in scheduling/facilitating high school. You really do have to make tough choices on where to focus. The other thing to keep in mind is that I've learned that it's hard to plan 4 years in advance for high school. Sure, you can have a basic idea of what subjects your student will do, but for both of mine, I've had to make changes in the upper high school grades based on what they were interested in and what outside courses were available. It was so much easier in the lower grades to just think, "we're doing Core 3 now, then we'll do Core 4, Core 5, etc. with SL, and it all worked out pretty well. Scheduling high school is much trickier.

 

Sorry if it came across that I was just going to move everything blindly to the next level. It was not meant that way. :) We have finally found programs that are working for DS, and it is for that reason that we were planning to stick with them. I am definitely willing to abandon or even revisit programs based on DS needs. That has actually been one of the biggest benefits of homeschooling.

 

Just remember, though, that you're only making year to year decisions. If you find you've cut the wrong thing, you can bring it in again the next year, or put a heavier focus on it at that time. If you look at your son's basic skills, math, reading, writing, I'd focus on making sure those are well developed. Yes he'll need to do other subjects, too, but he has a lifetime to learn about history, science, etc. If he has good core skills when he's done high school, he can realistically tackle any subject matter in college and beyond. HTH, Brenda

 

I think knowing I'm coming down to the final years is really what might be getting me. I feel like judgement day is nearing, and I must ensure I've sufficiently prepared him. I think we will be ok based on what I'm reading here as long as we continue to work diligently on his core subjects. Thanks

[TCoppock]

I am going to offer a suggestion based on our experience with our almost 21 yos who is a highly intelligent Aspie. I really regret spending so much time on academics. We really should have focused on life skills and done just avg levels of academics. I remember being furious with his psy when he was 14 b/c he told me that it didn't matter what his academic background was b/c if he couldn't function independently and hold a job, then education was moot.

 

It was not until ds was a sr in high school that we were finally able to realize just how much his Aspergers would impact his adulthood. Even now at 21 he is incredibly dependent and we aren't sure if he will ever be completely independent. (It is hard to imagine at this juncture.). And, his psy was right. Being able to make high grades in college courses while not being able to self-regulate does not translate well into employability and independence.

 

 

If I could go back and do it again, life skills and self-management skill would be become highest priority and academics a distant second.

 

I have a brother who has a genius level IQ, but up until he was probably 35 could not hold down a job. It amazed me that someone so intelligent wasn't able to do something so basic; that was of course until I had DS. DS is leaps and bounds farther than my brother is/was, but he still has a long way to go.

 

Can I ask what specific life skills you feel are most important? We are still working on a lot of DS social skills. This has become extremely hard because at times it is difficult to note what is teenage defiance and what is caused by his condition. We don't allow him to use his condition as an excuse, but we definitely allow for more grace.

 

I think by the time he is college bound we should have taught him:

Morning Routine: Wake up, shower, brush hair, eat breakfast, take medicine, brush teeth, etc.<-- We are still working on this

Review Daily Schedule (We use Motivated Moms which he is already used to)

Cook

Budget

Plan Meals

Make a grocery list

Pay Bills

Laundry

Dishes

 

What else am I missing?

[TCoppock]

I hope you take time to consider what 8 Fills the Heart has posted and what I'm about to post here. We've been there in your shoes, having young teens with learning challenges and trying to figure out how to prepare theme for traditional college.

 

It is difficult trying to figure out how to prepare DS for traditional school without squashing his uniqueness.

 

These young teens are now have young adults, so we've got some perspective! From my experience, I can tell you that pushing academics for 12 hours a day is NOT the answer. It will not prepare your student to survive college. Your student needs a much more balanced day so that there is time for other things -- having fun, learning to cook, exploring interests, and figuring out how to be an adult.

 

Your right, living and breathing school day in and day out is killing us. The reason for this post was there is just so much I saw that needed to be done, but there was absolutely no time to do it. I am looking at what we are doing now and seeing ultimately what I want to cut back on so we can provide a more rounded life. I never noticed we were doubling up on subjects until it was pointed out. :blush:

 

Life skills are essential. Learning to make a check list and to establish a routine is essential. Learning to cook, do laundry, manage money are tasks that will need to be taught and practiced while at home. Shoot, learning to drive is going to be a monumental task! My ds uses the apps on his smart phone to keep his life organized -- he uses the alarm, checklists, countdown clocks and the calendar. Before the smart phone he used an iPod touch or the computer, and before that it was paper lists. He is the checklist king, and while it isn't a cure all for being an ADHD scatter brain, he stays fairly organized. He does live on his own, on the other side of the country.

 

We use checklists for a lot of things, but it is usually me that is making them for DS. I think teaching him this skill would be beneficial.

 

Developing skills and nurturing talent is equally important, if not more important, that academics. Does your ds have a knack for anything in particular? A life long interest in something? A friend of mine struggled to keep her bright teen in the AP/college track but finally let go when he was 16 because he was miserable. He was only interested in cars. He is now a happy and successful 21 year old student at a world class auto mechanics school. My own ds is about to graduate from a specialized program in technical theater where he is known for his exceptional talent and keen eye for lighting design. He spent the bulk of his time as a teen working in community theaters and volunteering at church.

 

DS loves reading and Star Wars, and reading about Star Wars :) Seriously the majority of DS free time is spent reading.He enjoys a variety of books, business/economic magazines, and Time. He has said in the past he might wish to be either a librarian or a historian, but he often changes, as to be expected since he is still young. I have considered seeing if he could do volunteer work at our library. His interests are few and far between, so I tend to aim for exposure to many things in hopes that something catches his interest.

 

Both these boys are academically bright and capable. They can write a good paper, they have read good books, but they would be miserable in a traditional 4 year university.

 

Accommodations for learning challenges are important and quite legitimate. In a brick and mortar school your child would likely be given some special accommodations for his challenges, whether it is someone to take notes, using a computer to type papers, or extra time for exams. These kinds of accommodations will also be available in college and can make all the difference in the world for some students. Don't think of it as "cheating", or that it is somehow unfair, that your ds has to do it like everyone else.

 

Although I try to accommodate DS needs, I also try to teach him the skills. I think that many skills can be learned to some degree even if they do take longer or require a different approach. I think there is definitely a balance that is needed here.

 

Streamline the academics. Geography IS part of history, for instance -- it does not need to be it's own separate course. Tapestry of Grace is an integrated program -- if you are going to use it, trust in the completeness of it. Grammar and spelling are part of writing and rewriting -- there is no need to use a separate program. And doing double writing isn't necessarily the way to overcome a writing weakness -- time will prove a better cure as with time comes maturity. So much improves after puberty

 

Combining subjects is something I see is vital to "getting it all done." I just need to figure out what I have that doubles and where I need extras.

 

This is probably coming across more strident than I had wanted. It is just heartfelt comments from someone who has been there and is soooo very thankful I didn't force my son into the traditional academic box! (In all honesty, I think he was 14 before I let go of trying to make him fit into that box.) You clearly love your son and are doing what you think is best. I hope the perspectives from 8 and me are helpful as you look ahead to high school.

 

I didn't take your comments as anything but helpful. It really does help hearing everyone here who has already been through what I am. It is a challenge knowing when to push and when to step back. We definitely want DS to get the most out of his last school years with us no matter what the specifics.

[TCoppock]

Yikes! That's a heavy load! 9th grade here, with a student with mild LDs in math and writing, took 5.5 to 6 hours. No WAY DS had any brain energy to go longer than that. It would have been pointless sitting, because no more knowledge would have gone into his head -- we all have a limit of how long we can concentrate and really learn!

 

Yes, I had to sit with him and hand-hold a lot in those LD areas -- in fact, all the way into 12th grade with the writing and math. I don't regret it at all, because it really wasn't until about halfway into 12th grade I could see DS -- in his unique developmental timetable -- begin to mature a bit. He had just turned 18yo. Besides, spending that much time together enabled us to discuss bunny trails of real life issues that cropped up. Below are a few ideas. BEST of luck in adjusting! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

- Work at HIS pace.

It's about QUALITY not quantity. And it's about doing what helps your DS learn concepts and put them into practice -- NOT about making yourselves do every.single.problem.or.read.every.book just so you can check off a box. Since DS is a slow worker, then pick *carefully* what you have him do, drop EVERYTHING that is extraneous.

 

 

- Speed up the day.

1. Where possible, just do selected problems, not every.single.one.

2. Do some work orally (grammar, geography).

3. "Double dip" -- count anything written for History as part of the Writing/English credit, and don't make DS also do Writing program that same week he's doing the History writing.

 

 

- Set time limits on the History/Geog. (no more than 4-5 hours/per WEEK) and Literature (no more than 5-6 hours/per WEEK)

Otherwise, you are unfairly requiring more than a credit's worth of work, but not granting that credit. That may mean:

1. Spread out the TOG History, Geography, Literature and take 1.5 to 2 years to complete one level. This is a rich, HEAVY program, so that would be okay!

2. Just do portions of the TOG and drop other portions.

3. Switch to something less rigorous and time-intensive.

 

Again, work with your DS where he is at. Yes, TOG rhetoric level is worth a high school credit -- it is a rigorous program and the rhetoric stage is about right for grades 11-12. So, honestly, I think a 9th or 10th grader doing the rhetoric stage would be doing Honors History, while a 9th or 10th grader doing dialectic stage is right on target. JMO.

 

 

- Condense/Reduce/Drop some of your LA.

1. Grammar

R&S is grammar AND writing. You're already doing IEW. Drop the writing portion. Only do selected problems of the grammar. Or better yet, entirely drop the R&S. Does DS really NEED any more grammar at this point? Usually in high school the grammar is not taught/practiced with exercises, but USED as part of the writing. If the student is a bit shaky at grammar usage & mechanics, then do some sort of lite (10 minute) grammar practice 2-3x/week.

 

2. Writing

And how much writing is DS also doing with TOG? That is a pretty reading/writing heavy program. Don't make him write everything in TOG AND do IEW -- alternate them, or do a unit of IEW, then set it aside for a week or two and spend that time doing a writing project out of TOG. But don't make poor DS do ALL of the writing for both at the same time. That's going to KILL any interest in learning!

 

3. Vocab

Usually this is learned in context of the Literature. However if you really feel you want or must continue with your separate program, then drop it to just 2-3x/week.

 

 

- Science

If you're only going to do 3 credits over the 4 years, you can do about 2/3 credit each year, meaning the amount you spend each day can be less, because you're allowing yourself more time over all to complete the credit. Ours looked like this:

9th = .66 credit Biology

10th = .33 credit Biology, and .5 credit Anatomy

11th = .66 credit Chemistry

12th = .33 credit Chemistry, and .5 credit Physics

 

To simplify the transcript, I listed the credits by SUBJECT, not by date or by grade. So it looked like this:

 

SCIENCE (with labs)

Biology . . . . . . . . 1.0 credit . . . (grade) . . . . completion date

Anatomy . . . . . . . 0.5 credit . . . (grade) . . . . completion date

Chemistry . . . . . . 1.0 credit . . . (grade) . . . . completion date

Physics . . . . . . . . 0.5 credit . . . (grade) . . . . completion date

TOTAL . . . . . . . . . 3.0 credits . . . GPA (cumulative)

 

Thank you. There is so much here to chew on as I try to prepare for our upcoming year.

[Lori D.]

Can I ask what specific life skills you feel are most important? ...

 

What else am I missing?

 

I found the book Life Skills for Kids: Equipping Your Child for the Real World (Christine Field) to be very helpful. You can see the table of contents and a few sample pages at the above link. Even though it is probably geared for working with younger children, I found her list of skills to be extremely helpful in planning what to make sure our DSs knew for real life by the end of high school. :)

[elegantlion]

 

Is 7 credits per year the average pace? I can see where prioritizing will be difficult with such a buffet of good options. Is it frowned upon to do multiple courses light rather than few full credits. For instance, if DS wanted to take music and study sketching, but also wants to take PE and something else all in the same year would it be better to spread the classes over 2 years giving him complete credits or is it ok to give 1/2 or 1/4 credits. With his condition he is either fully engrossed in a subject or the novelty wears off quickly. I could see the benefits for him if smaller credits weren't frowned upon.

 

 

 

 

Our local high school requires 28 credits for graduate, so that is what we're aiming for. I, personally, am sticking with .5 and 1 credit classes, at least for transcript purposes. For PE and maybe a few other electives those credits may be spread out over more than one year. I'll probably do our transcript by subject not year. Hopefully others will add their wisdom on this topic as we're at the beginning of the road.

 

We're also looking at putting some of those interests into an extracurricular category. Ds does computer programming and digital design stuff as part of his extracurricular. That simply means he's not following a set course of study and there are no tests or grades. At some point he may take an actual computer course and I'll count that as a credit class.

[freesia]

Hi,

I don't and haven't had a ninth grader but am using many of the same programs so I wanted to give you some advice about making your day more manageable now. I hope you don't mind. My ds is slightly dysgraphic but not ASD or ADD. Many of your subjects are taking more time than I can imagine.

 

For Rod and Staff: Go through the lesson with him, do some class exercises, assign written exercises only where you think he needs reinforcement (and I always give the diagramming.) If his assigment is taking more than 30 minutes a day, have him finish the lesson the next day. You can spread the book over 2 years if you want. The eighth grade book used to be the last book in the series and SWB says you can use it in tenth if you want.

 

IEW: An hour a day! Yikes! In our house we never write on video days. We only work on one paragraph a day. Remember this program can be used over 2 years if you have to or you can drop the repeated lessons. Again, I'd set a timer and only work for 30 minutes on this a day.

 

TOG geography: I let him copy from the Teacher Page. There may be "some" benefit to having him search an atlas but I am willing to forgo that. He is still learning where things are.

 

I think that's it. You've gotten great advice from others. Oh! A friend of mine, who has very bright, successful children wanted her kids to "have" the gov't and philosophy from Tog but couldn't fit it all in. She had them do the reading and then independently read the teacher notes. She didn't make them do the SAPS or have discussions. This may be an idea for you for one or the other of the subjects. My sense of the Somervilles, though, is that the intention is to do the gov't or philosophy *instead* of something else not in addition to everything else. You know, an exta course for a Humanity loving child, such as a STEM oriented child might take two sciences.