..

[lamppost]

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[dbmamaz]

while i know this isnt what you asked for, i'm trying to be supportive - i've seen some articles saying that belief and non-belief are fairly intrinsic personality traits. While i'm not a religious person, when my kids go through phases of saying they believe in (whatever) I simply accept that that is where they are now. I dont engage with them directly on the subject because I want them to come to their own conclusions, but it is clear what I believe about the world. They have all eventually come to agree with me - but i also emphasize respect for people who believe otherwise.

 

My feeling is that if you make it in to an issue - like most challenging parts of parenting - it will become a fight and they will start to push harder. I have heard of some athiests who were raised by christain families but knew at a young age they were not able to believe like that - and some of them have cut off family relationships because their families cannot accept them. But i have also heard stories of people who changed their minds later in life.

 

I know its hard for you to accept, but for me, loving your child as they are while making sure they know what you believe is about all you can do?

[imagine.more]

I've definitely gone through an atheistic phase and wish my parents could have responded to my questions about life and God. Instead they laughed at me for being upset about it as they don't have any firm beliefs themselves and see religion as unnecessary.

 

I think the case for christ for kids is a good idea, i know i enjoyed the case for christ and it helped me answer my brother's questions when he was 17-18.

 

When you guys discussed God and the wind analogy did you mention that just like we can see what the wind does we can see what God does too? Like His creation on earth, the orderliness of it and the fact that it had to have been made somehow. In science there's the principle that something cannot just spring up from nothing. In fact I think a diligent study of both Science and Philosophy would be wise here. She sounds extremely bright and inquisitive and could likely handle those subjects now better than most kids that young.

 

And if I were you I'd spend the next few years reading everything on Christian apologetics because she'll come up with even bigger questions as she gets older and you'll need to be prepared! Also, could your priest/pastor help? I know my DH (a pastor) would gladly work with

a parent who came to him with concerns like yours. Heck, he'd be thrilled if a parent cared enough and was astute enough to even have those concerns, lol!

[MinivanMom]

My children are still young, but my oldest daughter (who is about to turn 9) was very much like this at around age 4-5. She was just very logical about the idea of God and religion. Once at about 4 yrs old, she leaned over to me during church services and whispered, "Where did God come from? Who are his mother and father? He must have a mother and father. Where do you think his mother and father came from?" We had many conversations along these lines. I have handled these situations in two ways:

 

1. I always took her questions and concerns very seriously. I never brushed her off with a pat answer. I explained what I believed and why I believed it. If the situation warranted it, then I would explain what other people believed about her question. I acknowledged the things that I didn't know or couldn't know for certain. Most importantly, I always affirmed her ability to seek answers and decide for herself what she believes. I never spoke down to her because of her age.

 

2. Yet I never made too big a deal out of her questions. It is natural for children (and all people for that matter) to have questions and doubts. You are just less likely to hear adults express them out loud, because they have learned that it is often not socially acceptable. By the time most children start to have doubts, they are old enough to know not to express them out loud. Gifted children, on the other hand, have these same doubts at a younger age when they tend to just share whatever thought goes through their head. I think it is a huge overreaction to treat these genuine questions or doubts as some sort of a spiritual crisis that requires you to throw 2000 years of religious philosophy at a young child.

 

Over time my daughter has decided that she believes, but she is still very young. I feel like the little things have helped her on that path more than anything else: weekly church attendance, daily scripture reading, praying as a family, bringing her along when I take a meal to someone in need, etc. We have a spiritual life and we share that spiritual life with her, but we don't cram it down her throat. I'm not trying to convince her. She will continue to grow and learn (often independently from me) and she will have to decide what she believes for herself. If she decided that she didn't believe, that would be okay . . . and she knows that we genuinely feel that way. For me that is the most important thing. I want her to always understand that our love and acceptance of her is not conditioned on whether or not she shares our beliefs.

[Staceyshoe]

It sounds like you are doing a beautiful job of discipling your daughter! The lines of communication are open. She sounds very bright and inquisitive. Honestly, I would just keep doing what you are doing. You are a safe place for her to express her doubts and ask questions. You are gently and consistently teaching her, which is what the Bible instructs parents to do. I doubt there is any one thing that will help her turn the corner and develop faith. It will be a long process with lots of ups and downs.

 

One thing that might be of interest to her is the God of Wonders video. It's available through Netflix or you can watch the chapters at the link I provided. It's great for young kids because the video footage and music are absolutely astounding. There are short information-packed segments in between with content that is rich and challenging.

 

But I wouldn't expect the video (or any other resource) to be a major break-through. This is a journey that you are taking together. He is with you every step of the way, and I think it's going to be a beautiful experience for you both. <3

[TracyP]

MinivanMom's post is excellent!

 

I really agree to not make this a big deal. I have so many questions! I am very upfront about telling my kids that I don't have all the answers. I have faith despite these questions. I am somewhat distrustful of anyone who claims to not question anything about their religion. I felt ashamed for having questions for a long time, and I almost lost my faith over it. These kids bring up some great points, but it comes down to faith.

 

Personally, I had an aha! moment when I changed denominations. I had been taught that the Bible was never contradictory and made perfect sense all the time. (If you don't agree than you must not have the holy spirit. *gag*) When I asked the pastor of my current denomination to explain a contradiction, he said that sometimes you have to be willing to let the contradiction stand. For me, faith is about saying: God, I don't always get it, but I trust You and choose to believe anyway.

 

Anyway, don't get discouraged or feel desperate. Keep honestly answering your child the best you can. All you can do is model a Christ filled life, share your faith, and pray. ((hugs))

[Candid]

When you guys discussed God and the wind analogy did you mention that just like we can see what the wind does we can see what God does too? Like His creation on earth, the orderliness of it and the fact that it had to have been made somehow. In science there's the principle that something cannot just spring up from nothing. In fact I think a diligent study of both Science and Philosophy would be wise here. She sounds extremely bright and inquisitive and could likely handle those subjects now better than most kids that young.

 

And if I were you I'd spend the next few years reading everything on Christian apologetics because she'll come up with even bigger questions as she gets older and you'll need to be prepared! Also, could your priest/pastor help? I know my DH (a pastor) would gladly work with

a parent who came to him with concerns like yours. Heck, he'd be thrilled if a parent cared enough and was astute enough to even have those concerns, lol!

 

I agree with all of this, plus I would add to the first paragraph that you need to learn to tell your daughter that you are not sure what to say to this, but you are going to do some research and get back to her about it. I know that I often get caught flat-footed and jaw-dangling so asking for some time to research and pray is wise.

 

I'd also suggest that you develop some resource places or people you can go to. And I'd suggest being very careful about real life folks I'd use for this if you are going to share that it is your dd. Some well meaning folks might decide to intervene in some way that would not be helpful. So I'd be very cautious about telling folks like her Sunday school teacher, etc. Even with my pastor I'd probably talk about a child you know who has a lot of questions and not identify your dd, directly. If you feel this would be dishonest, then don't go to real life sources use sources like this board. Also, a denominational board could be helpful.

[misty.warden]

Totally thought this said "disciplining" and went :bored:

 

OP you sound like you're doing fine, it's hard to explain faith to adults and kids are a completely different animal. Knowing your own faith and answering questions in a serious manner is the key.

[CatholicMom]

I agree to not make too much of it, but not ignore it either. I also would not let her hear you label her a "skeptic" as this will almost certainly influence how she sees herself.

 

Also, I don't know what kind of Christian tradition you are from, but some denominations (especially the ones who are not infant baptists, e.g. Assemblies of God, baptists, etc) tend to place a lot of emphasis on the child making a "choice" to believe in or reject "the gospel." While this choice is reality of every Christian's life as they reach the age of reason, asking your child if they believe or not is asking for trouble, IMO. A child whose parents are Christians are in a special situation where they can (and should) be taught Christianity from the time they can understand. They shouldn't be asked "do you believe?" or be aware that their parents are waiting for "the big decision." To a child's mind, this is a lot of pressure, and rejecting their parents' religion wouldn't even come up on the radar for a lot of kids unless they realize it's up in the air. Christian parents should emphasize not "what we believe" but what is true. Emphasizing that "we believe x but others believe y" without also emphasizing that "what we believe is true and y is wrong," risks feeding doubts and worries and dashing confidence. If you come at it like "some people believe and some people don't" without emphasizing which is true and which is false, you risk your child wondering "which one am I? The one who believes, or the one who doesn't?" Rather, children should be trained to ask the question "What is true?" and parents should be prepared to answer it. Remember that it's impossible to not believe what you think is true. I think it's a parent's job to teach their child that what they believe is *true* and if they come to you with doubts and worries, address them seriously and bolster their confidence. Do not let them hear you label them as a skeptic or a empiricist or anything like that.

 

Throw all that out if it doesn't even apply to you. :) Just thought I'd mention it because I think this philosophy plays a role in a lot of families and would exacerbate your issue.

 

Practical things I would do are:

 

Talk through some of the apologetic responses for the questions she's asking or doubts she's having. However, I would avoid introducing any new arguments against God, even if for the purpose of answering them. Sometimes that can be even more confusing and overwhelming. Stick to whatever she currently has a problem with. Again, I would be careful about having her take too much ownership of these doubts and instead treat them as some questions that are 100% answerable. Tell her that there are no questions she can ask that someone before (and probably hundreds and hundreds of years ago) haven't asked. And yet very, very smart people still believe.

 

Read The Case for Christ for Kids. I believe there are 3 books (The Case for Faith, The Case for Christ, and the Case for a Creator).

 

Visit ReasonableFaith.org and listen to William Lane Craig (THE best Christian debater I know of) or read his book, Reasonable Faith, to brush up on your own understanding of apologetics (assuming you could use it). If she would feel better with some historical evidence of God's existence, I would focus on Jesus' resurrection, which is a central-focus of WLCraig.

 

Involve her more in faith-related activities, including good works: Visit a nursing home, collect food for the poor, help at a soup kitchen, etc. These types of things would help compliment the apologetics by not only giving her intellectual answers, but fostering a love of Christian morals (mercy, giving to the poor, etc) and God's people.

 

Pray for your child's soul and nurture it.

 

God has said: "Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it." (Prov. 22:6)

[maize]

I think one of the most powerful things a parent can do to nurture their children's spirituality is to simply and fully live their faith in daily life. Your children are observing what you do, how you live, what you say. If you walk in faith yourself, if you share with your children spiritual experiences that have impacted your life (times you have felt God's love and care for you, times you have had prayers answered, etc.) they will have solid ground on which their own testimony can begin to grow. It sounds like you are doing a fine job of living and sharing your faith; just continue on and let the seeds you are planting have time to sprout. Ultimately your daughter will need to find her own faith; no one else can give it to her, but you and others can provide opportunities and nourishment for seeds of faith to grow.

[Laurie4b]

I think you've received some very good advice. One thing I would add is telling stories from your own life and the lives of others you know in which God has answered prayer or has revealed Himself in a very real way that defies other explanation. I think this is a good way to "see the effect of the wind" as a pp suggested. Stories from those you don't know can be helpful, too. It sounds like contemporary stories would work best.

[Dmmetler]

I've gone through this back and forth for several years. My DD tends to look for evidence-and to her, she has trouble making a case for God when she can find existence to the contrary. And, really, looking for evidence has disproved such things as Santa and the Easter Bunny, and she's had that verified by adults. It's hard for her to see God as being different, especially when she knows people who have different religions, reads history and knows different religions were followed in different times and places and some are now deemed "Mythology" and not generally accepted anymore, and so on. Mostly, I let her talk, answer her questions, and give her the opportunities to do her research. I don't know what she'll be when she grows up-but I do know that she's going to have done the research :). I do think it helps to see and hear stories from others, and I think that reading about how people are impacted and the positive responses to religion helps. We've read a lot about Saints and the lives of the saints, even though we're not Catholic, because she needed to see the role of women in the church through time and that women could have a positive impact, and I think that's helped. So has being involved in active ministry projects, where people are being helped directly.

 

I will say that we ended up changing denominations for several reasons, and one reason was to get DD in a setting where her questions were answered honestly as opposed to "you're wrong, and you'll know better when you're older". Much better to be around adults who's response was "Everyone questions at some times in their life, it's natural and that's how you learn." and are willing to say "Well, there are a lot of different views about...some theologians think X, and some Y. What I think is...."-and who talk to her seriously and take her seriously.

[serendipitous journey]

Blessings to the OP and the previous posters.

 

I have some thoughts about this which I'd like to share. I am certain that I come from a different faith perspective, and am working with my own faith right now, and so I encourage you to please read my thoughts and also to pray & reflect on what may, and what may not, be useful and constructive for you.

 

May I suggest that you reconsider describing the child as a "skeptic"? In your own mind and especially where she can hear you. It is a word loaded with baggage, and in my experience has a negative connotation in the Christian community. You are noticing something important here; I don't know if there is a way you can describe it in positive words. She may be one who questions deeply; who wants to see for herself that things are true. You can find parallels, very complimentary and positive ones, to her search for truth in for example the Apostle Paul.

 

Be especially wary of comparing her to Doubting Thomas. Consider that her need to understand, and to not believe things just because people she loves believe them, is a precious gift from the Lord. It is frustrating to you to have her doubt the creed of your faith, true; but in past ages, it is such questioning of normal beliefs that led society to see things that everyone accepted as necessary and true -- owning slaves, government via inherited power, physical abuse of wives, and so on. Her own sense of truth is valuable.

 

You will never be able to win her heart by showing her God in the world around her, and I would suggest that it is essentially idolatrous to try and prove God by testing the physical world. Also, as CS Lewis pointed out, the religion you get to by observing nature is Paganism, not Christianity: nature is beautiful, but also terrible and heartless. The natural world is unpitying and harsh, as well stunningly complex and beautiful. And you are sure to have noticed that God's chosen people do not have easy lives. All of Jesus' disciples died violent deaths; and the writings of holy people refer to stretches of spiritual "dryness", when they have no consoling feeling of God's presence. So she is correct, and in good company, in noting that her prayers to God are not assured to relieve feelings of fear and aloneness.

 

What, then, to start with? First, that she is a good and wonderful creation; and that what struggles she has are opportunities for her to grow, to deepen her understanding, and to bless her community. For example, a child who honestly wrestles with matters of faith will have much more compassion for those who are not Christian, or those who belong to different faiths, and this is a great gift to the Christian community I believe. Consider encouraging her to set her challenges before the Lord in prayer, not as problems to be solved, but instead asking the grace to bear them with patience & fortitude & joy. That is, perhaps the real challenge being put before her is not to Believe, but to bear the discomfort of uncertainty.

 

Reflect with her on how we see God in the world, and in ourselves. A Christian I admire, Bill Newsome (also an excellent scientist) once commented that he was never sure how much his prayers changed the world around him; but that he was confident that his prayers changed him. A prayer at night when she is frightened might not remove the fear, but might allow her to be changed so that she can live with her discomfort -- become, perhaps, somewhat comfortable with it.

 

I have found it to be very powerful to thank God for such things, or to offer them to God to work with as He will. They provide an extraordinary opportunity to grow in humility and in compassion: it is much easier to be humble when you struggle, than when you feel confident and assured.

 

In general, teach her to end her prayers with a request that in all things, God's will and not her own be done. This, first off, relieves any expectation that God will do what she wishes He would. Secondly, it opens the possibility for her to observe how what happens can be made to work to the glory of God and the good of men, even when what happens seems unpleasant or painful. Thirdly, it trains in habit of relinquishing our desires and hopes and our own wills, which is necessary to having a Christ-filled heart.

 

Finally, consider that the evidence of her true faith may be seen in her life and not in her mental beliefs -- "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance." And also: "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." If the Spirit is dwelling in her, then she must be dwelling in the heart of God; and for the rest, patience, prayer, and -- of course -- longsuffering.

 

thank you for this conversation, and the space it has given me to reflect and pray. It occurs to me that I should share my own perspective, so that you can weigh my thoughts accordingly -- I am essentially Conservative Quaker in perspective, though I struggle with my own "beliefs" -- or, I did struggle with them. It was fruitless. So I am working to let go of my concern with what I believe and to place faith in God to work as He will.

[Chris in VA]

I would simply add that you could work on the trust relationship between the two of you. She will have to trust YOU that you are telling the truth. Believing YOU is the first step in believing God.

[Hedgehogs4]

Pray. Pray that the Lord will reveal himself in every possible way to you, then give you exactly the right words to speak to your daughter to put her doubts to rest. Do NOT make a big deal of her fears / doubts but give each one to the Lord and ask for discernment as to how to answer her, even in the very moment that she raises them. This is not your burden to bear--it is God's. Your job is to be the intercessor on her behalf.

[lamppost]

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[sbgrace]

I wanted to add some things from my own personal experience with that kind of mind myself. I've also got a child like I was growing up. My parents modeled a real faith and focus (very important) and I had all the books about the reason behind faith mentioned on this thread. This is my perspective based on my experience but I know it might not fit all/might seem strange.

 

You really can't reason yourself into relationship with God. So I, personally, tell my son to tell God that he wants to know if He's real. I encourage my son to be honest about his doubts. And I pray, too, that God will reveal Himself, His love, to my kids in a real and personal way. I pray they will be drawn to Him.

 

Because you can't prove God without a doubt (reasoning wise) so all the things in that direction may not be entirely helpful. And a faith built on them tends to be unsteady. Or at least that has been my personal experience. I also don't emphasize believe or not with my kids. I emphasizing choosing to follow Christ. It's not that the belief isn't important but that true, unshakable kind of faith/belief comes through experience with a person of Christ and not manufacturing belief in our minds like we often think of it in my opinion. It really is a choice. And, beyond that, the books fall short of the majesty that really is the whole story anyway. At their ages I don't know how that grand story would be communicated.

[6wildhorses]

I would focus on teaching her what it means to be Christlike. Focus on the principles that guided Christ's life, such as forgiveness, mercy, unconditional love, kindness, honesty, etc. Focus on the things He taught in the Sermon on the Mount. She really is young to understand doctrine like you described, but she is the perfect age to develop Christlike qualities that will stay with her throughout her life. You can weave these lessons naturally into her life as situations come up, and you can tell her examples from your own life of how the principles have helped you. I would avoid pressuring her to believe (I think this would just backfire in the end) and give it over to God. I would focus on loving her as Christ does and on sharing that love with her.

[AKshanmar]

My youngest was very much that way. Like others have said, directly answer her questions, but handle it casually. As a 15 old now, her faith is very important to her and she understands it very well, because she put a lot of thought and effort into it.

[lamppost]

.

[serendipitous journey]

lamppost -- I was one who commented on the word "skeptic" but happily retract my comments! I know bystanders have been very taken aback when DH and I refer to Button as "weird" (never when he's around), but 1. he really is very unusual, and 2. all our favorite folks are at least a little weird, by our lights! So I understand that words have very different feelings & connotations to different people, and am glad to know that "skeptic" is neutral to you.

 

and, RE finding a faith community: that is such a challenge! I'm glad to hear you've found a church that you want to stick with, despite the challenges that inevitably come up. But agree with you RE avoiding the creed-dependent cupcake camp :) ...

[Elizabeth in MN]

First off I want to commend Lampost for having the courage to post, courage I have lacked for a few years. I may do a spin off thread since my dd is twelve and a lot of this advise would work with younger children but not so much with a logic-stage child.

 

Lampost, I believe this dd of yours will grow up to be the most faithful of all your children. She is asking, seeking, learning all at a very young age. These are questions she wants answers to, questions most people never even consider.

 

You've gotten some great advise in this thread. I can't really add much to it aside from encouraging you to answer the questions she asks, and keep in mind her developmental stage. Right now she likes things she can touch, and G-d is an abstract concept. If she could sit down in his lap, or get a hug from him then she would believe. Faith, belief - these are seeds we sow and allow to grow.

[kiwik]

My son told his church creche teacher (at 4) that God must be dead because he couldn't see him.

 

At least it shows she thinks and doesn't just go with the flow.

[snickerplum]

I heard something great on a Christian radio program the other day that I think might apply. You are not your child's Holy Spirit. As a parent, it is your job to model Christ the best you can, teach your children Biblical principals, and show them a need for Christ. But it is the Holy Spirit's job to take all of that and convict someone. There's not enough convicing or question answering to make someone believe. That's between an individual and God. And keep praying for wisdom for when there are questions. Praying for YOU in all of this, as well as your daughter!

[Staceyshoe]

I wanted to share one truth I've come to realize in my own discipling of my children. When I'm dealing with a huge challenge/roadblock/whatever, God is using it for my own faith journey just as much as He for my child's. I don't know why, but somehow realizing this helps me to feel more at peace with where we are in the midst of the challenge. I think it helps me focus on the process rather that focusing just on the obstacle and the goal. I'm a very goal-driven person, so being content in the process doesn't come naturally for me. It's comforting to realize that we don't have to be at our goal yet. That we are on a journey, and that He is with us every single step of the way.

 

ETA: I recently wrote a blog series about my own struggles with discouragement while discipling my children. The "truths" at the bottom of this post may be encouraging to you. I must say that your dedication and heart in this matter is very inspiring to me personally.