I.Dup. Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Maybe readers who over-react to scenes in books they find distasteful might also consider chilling. Just don't read the book. Author bashing isn't exactly a relaxed response.... I don't consider starting a thread to talk about the inappropriateness (IMO) of child p*rn scenes in books as "over reacting." And I do not consider anything I said author bashing. I said I consider child p*rn (in books or any other form) perverted. Period. I have repeatedly stood by Margaret Atwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I don't really think people misunderstood your stance. I just think they don't agree with it. I do not feel the instances you brought up were child p0rn. They're uncomfortable subjects, but sometimes they serve a purpose in a story. I was harmed sexually as a child and most of these don't bother me. Sometimes they even validate what I was/am feeling or help me process another part of it. I also think we're all adults and that information is so readily available that we should take responsibility to research books if we know we're more sensitive to certain topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misty.warden Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I don't really think people misunderstood your stance. I just think they don't agree with it. I do not feel the instances you brought up were child p0rn. They're uncomfortable subjects, but sometimes they serve a purpose in a story. I was harmed sexually as a child and most of these don't bother me. Sometimes they even validate what I was/am feeling or help me process another part of it. I also think we're all adults and that information is so readily available that we should take responsibility to research books if we know we're more sensitive to certain topics. This right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 I don't really think people misunderstood your stance. I just think they don't agree with it. I do not feel the instances you brought up were child p0rn. They're uncomfortable subjects, but sometimes they serve a purpose in a story. I was harmed sexually as a child and most of these don't bother me. Sometimes they even validate what I was/am feeling or help me process another part of it. I also think we're all adults and that information is so readily available that we should take responsibility to research books if we know we're more sensitive to certain topics. I felt misunderstood when I was told repeatedly (and again in your above post) that these scenes are not a big deal, serve a purpose, and are perfectly fine and meaningful parts of the story. Obviously they are a big deal to some of us (perhaps many others who just don't want to post here, or aren't on this board) and I don't think we should be made out to be babies or immature or stupid for feeling that way. There are MANY posts that insinuated that (we're all adults, pull up your big girl panties, what are you stupid, just do a little research, duh, etc) I also felt misunderstood when our entire argument was made out to be all about "censorship" and "author bashing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I felt misunderstood when I was told repeatedly (and again in your above post) that these scenes are not a big deal, serve a purpose, and are perfectly fine and meaningful parts of the story. Obviously they are a big deal to some of us (perhaps many others who just don't want to post here, or aren't on this board) and I don't think we should be made out to be babies or immature or stupid for feeling that way. There are MANY posts that insinuated that (we're all adults, pull up your big girl panties, what are you stupid, just do a little research, duh, etc) I also felt misunderstood when our entire argument was made out to be all about "censorship" and "author bashing." I've never called anyone a baby, immature, or stupid. I am saying, that for me, they don't constitue child p0rn or warning labels. I'm not saying they are not a big deal. Sometimes they are so big they make me reevaluate and think. They are big deals. They are disturbing. I don't really think anyone is disagreeing with that fact. I get that you don't understand their purpose. Are you able to see the side that says they do serve a purpose, at least to some readers/authors? People react differently to books and labels wouldn't really help. I would find some books graphic that you would not, and vice versa. There is so much information available out there so many of us don't understand why adults won't take advantage of it. I can look up any book and know quickly if I want to read it or not. I can see quickly if it contains something that would disturb me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I felt misunderstood when I was told repeatedly (and again in your above post) that these scenes are not a big deal, serve a purpose, and are perfectly fine and meaningful parts of the story. Obviously they are a big deal to some of us (perhaps many others who just don't want to post here, or aren't on this board) and I don't think we should be made out to be babies or immature or stupid for feeling that way. There are MANY posts that insinuated that (we're all adults, pull up your big girl panties, what are you stupid, just do a little research, duh, etc) I also felt misunderstood when our entire argument was made out to be all about "censorship" and "author bashing." I totally get your not wanting to read it. Heck, you couldn't pay me to read another novel by Cormac McCarthy, no matter the artistic merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 I've never called anyone a baby, immature, or stupid. I am saying, that for me, they don't constitue child p0rn or warning labels. I'm not saying they are not a big deal. Sometimes they are so big they make me reevaluate and think. They are big deals. They are disturbing. I don't really think anyone is disagreeing with that fact. I get that you don't understand their purpose. Are you able to see the side that says they do serve a purpose, at least to some readers/authors? People react differently to books and labels wouldn't really help. I would find some books graphic that you would not, and vice versa. There is so much information available out there so many of us don't understand why adults won't take advantage of it. I can look up any book and know quickly if I want to read it or not. I can see quickly if it contains something that would disturb me. You may not have insinuated that anyone was immature, stupid, etc, but there were plenty of posts to that effect. Re: the bolded, no. I do not think the scenes depicting graphic acts of sexual crimes against children to be anything other than inappropriate and exploitative. There is a way to word things that gets the point across without being exploitative, but I get that some people think these scenes are meaningful additions to the book (okay, I can't understand that, but I can read that you all are saying that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I.Dup - I was one of those who responded rudely to you. I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 I.Dup - I was one of those who responded rudely to you. I apologize. Thank you. :cheers2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I felt misunderstood when I was told repeatedly (and again in your above post) that these scenes are not a big deal, serve a purpose, and are perfectly fine and meaningful parts of the story. Where did *anyone* say that such scenes are not a big deal? Quote a single post that implied any such thing. You are projecting here. I repeatedly stated that *I* do not read such works. However, I certainly *do* understand why they can be meaningful. You see, I know a handful of women who carried guilt for *years* because they believed they participated in consensual sex at a very young age. Books like this help those women see how predators work. It helps them see how they were preyed upon and violated. It releases them from the guilt. Oprah, herself, has talked about her own experience this, which may be why she is drawn to the topic. Obviously they are a big deal to some of us (perhaps many others who just don't want to post here, or aren't on this board) and I don't think we should be made out to be babies or immature or stupid for feeling that way. Every post that *I* have read has said that such scenes are and *should be* a big deal. Quote a single post that in *any* way implied that it is immature or babyish to feel that such scenes are a big deal. There are MANY posts that insinuated that (we're all adults, pull up your big girl panties, what are you stupid, just do a little research, duh, etc) Yes, a *very* tiny amount of research would have told you that the books would probably contain disturbing scenes. Yes, it is on *us*, as *adults* to research adult books that we read, if we have a problem with certain subjects (as *many* of us, including Martha and I do). I also felt misunderstood when our entire argument was made out to be all about "censorship" and "author bashing." Your original post said something like, "how do they get away with this." You don't think that implies that it should be illegal? Other people most definitely advocated it being illegal and/or labeling "offensive" books. But I do think some people were rude (including some of your responses, even though you don't seem to see that, and that's okay) and I do think people continued misunderstanding our side, and maybe the people on your side (as if there are "sides") may have felt the same way. That's the most frustrating part to me. I did NOT start the thread to advocate book banning or censorship. Maybe I should have made it JAWM, I don't know. What is the point of posting such threads, if all you want is for people to nod their heads and tut-tut along with you? I don't think it's immature to be upset about material in a book that *should* upset you. I *do* think it is immature if (*if*, not because) you're upset because people don't agree that such scenes are p*rn or that authors who write such scenes are perverts or that such activities should be illegal (which, you implied, IMO, despite your protestations). And, no, I don't need any PMs about how I hurt this or that person's feelings by disagreeing with them. I DON'T think this should have been a JAWM thread, and I don't think anyone would have gone along with that. JAWM threads are for when people need support about dealing with their kid's school or their MIL or the fact that they've had to move 3 times in 5 years or stuff like that. I think if you can't handle controversial topics, then you should stay away from them entirely. There are plenty of nice, fluffy, harmless threads to participate in instead. eta: If you need a clean series, then I will suggest Jan Karon. They are entertaining, light Christian fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey Mom Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Is it ever frustrating to you to be in a discussion, express that you strongly dislike something, and have the other person repeatedly say that your view shows how immature and ignorant you are and whatever you're feeling isn't legit and borders on dangerous? Would that not be frustrating after awhile? No more frustrating than being lumped in with "perverts" for not objecting to the scenes. For that reason, I think I should have made this into a JAWM post. I honestly didn't think there would be so many who were in favor of these kind of scenes in books. You learn something new every day. For that reason, it didn't occur to me to make it a JAWM post. For the most part, again, this thread has been very enlightening and helpful to me and I'm thankful for the discussion. I don't think people are "in favor" of reading those types of scenarios. I think some of us understand that there is a reason the author wrote it in and we are willing to go to those dark places in an attempt to understand the character (or in some cases, their own personal experiences). ETA: And it's perfectly fine if you aren't willing to go to that dark place. Your 'JAWM' post would have been better served had you asked something along the lines of, "does reading this type of thing make you sick to your stomach?" I don't think a single person here would have disagreed with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Your 'JAWM' post would have been better served had you asked something along the lines of, "does reading this type of thing make you sick to your stomach?" I don't think a single person here would have disagreed with you there. Good point. I would have agreed, even though I understand the purpose that they serve. I don't read that stuff for a reason, nor do I watch cop shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Okay. It is possible I was reading things into posts that just weren't there. Either way, I think this has been an enlightening discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Texican Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 A Time To Kill by John Grisham. I like having had read that book, but I did not enjoy reading it. Good book, though awful subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Actually, you described authors who write any kind of 'graphic' sex scene involving a child as committing a kind of mental assault against their readers. Not only is that hyperbolic, it shows a lack of respect for said authors. Writers are pretty smart and a lot of them are pretty sensitive too. I guarantee you writing those scenes isn't easy and is only done to serve valid narrative and thematic purposes, not to 'assault' the reader. Sadie, I vehemently disagree with just about everything you've written on this thread, I don't like the tone you wrote it, and there's no sense in the 2 of us arguing because we come from polar opposites on this issue. I have taken responsibility for any part I may have had in misconstruing myself, I've apologized, I've said I'm thankful for the discussion that has happened here, I've acknowledged I may be wrong when others have criticized me, and I'm really not sure what else you are looking for me to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phathui5 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Who should do the ratings? Everyone's experience is subjective and even within this thread we have differing opinions on what is more or less disturbing. That bad poem about rape may have changed someone's view of life, your personal enjoyment was probably not the reason the writer wrote it. The video game industry regulates itself. Those ratings on games, they're not from the government, they're from the producers. The publishing industry could choose to do something similar. But should they? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Wow, interesting discussion. I don't think a book rating system is necessary. Anyone who finds certain scenes or types of literature disturbing could easily find appropriate books by looking at book reviews on Amazon, Good Reads, Barnes and Noble, and probably lots of other places. I've read just about everything by Stephen KIng and definitely find some of it disturbing. I read The Handmaid's Tale, and for some reason found it more disturbing than Stephen King (maybe because it seemed more "real"?). For that reason, I haven't read any other Margaret Atwood books. As a literate adult, I'm able to make those kinds of choices for myself, without the need for warning labels or censorship. Exactly. I used to read a lot of Lawrence Sanders. I liked his characterization, description, description of food and storylines. Until, after I had my first child, I read a passage that disturbed me. So, I made a decision about my reading time and haven't read any of his work since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Do those of you who say you don't read reviews also not read reviews for your dc's books? I feel like I am constantly reading reviews. I have a 13 and 10 yr old with different tastes and I have never let them start reading something I know nothing about. I also haven't felt any book I've read has been spoiled by reading editorial comments and/or a few reviews. If, somehow, a book ends up going somewhere I didn't expect, I just close the book and move on. I can see where it's going before I read too much and know to just stop. I've never read something and been so disturbed because it was unexpected. I have had that happen with movies though, even with the ratings. I do browse, but only purchase from book stores that have internet access. All of our B&N stores have Nook centers and I can just hop on one and check out which book I'm interested in. If the store has no access, I will wait to buy until I can look it up somewhere else. I personally have not felt the need to review or censor my children's reading. My own reading as a child was not censored. I would not have benefitted if it had been; but I would have benefitted from discussion so I've added that as a modification of how I was parented with regard to literary supervision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Just wanted to tell the OP that I agree with everything you've said. That's all. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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