Help getting baby on better sleeping schedule and carseat help...

[Dianne-TX]

**Please do not comment if you do not agree with scheduling babies. I'm not debating that issue. Thank you.**

 

First, my 5 month old sleeps fairly well at night (7-10 hours, avg. 8 hours most nights). She eats her bottle and then goes back to sleep for another 4 hours. Her sleep during the day is sporadic and usually not long. She will have three 30-45 min. naps before the evening. Sometimes she takes one longer nap, in the afternoon, but that isn't her norm. She'll also sometimes take another nap in the evening before her last bottle and bed for the night. Needless to say, you can tell that she is very tired by the time bedtime comes because she's not had a good sleep for several hours and all I've done for the day is feed and rock her to sleep with some playtime in between. I'm wondering if anyone had a baby like this and if you have any hints on what to do. I'm not opposed to holding my baby or rocking my baby or holding her all day while she wants to sleep, but that is not realistic with three other kiddos, a home to tend and homeschooling. Is this just her personal sleep habit that will remain? I can't remember these times with my other children and what I did and even if I found something that helped, one thing that works for one baby, it doesn't always work for the other. This 4th blessing keeps me guessing and trying to find solutions that helps her on this issue and others. :) I'm mainly wondering if I need to help her by scheduling her better? For example, eat, play for an hour, put her to sleep (whether or not she seems ready. She goes to sleep by being rocked with pacifier and blanket.) and then repeat that throughout the day. Thoughts? Advice?

 

Secondly, this same blessing has car riding issues. :) She doesn't stay quiet and happy for long in the car. She usually cries when we drive and will not go to sleep without screaming. I've never had a baby that didn't like the car! The car is usually the place to put them to sleep, right?! She isn't easy to console either, pacifier, blanket, toys, music, nothing helps every time. I usually plan outings (when I can) when it's time for her to eat, but if we are out long term, she doesn't ride quietly or go to sleep easily when it's not feeding time.

 

Anybody else have a high needs baby in many ways? Help! :)

[Shellydon]

A 6 month old baby needs about 14 hours of sleep per day -- usually 10-11 at night then 3-4 in naps. If I am reading your post correctly, she is sleeping 12-14 hours at night then is having trouble napping (is that correct?). If so, I would suggesting not letting her sleep more than 11 hours at night. If you wake her up and start her day after 11 hours, she should nap more. She is getting all of her required daily sleep at night and isn't tired enough to nap well. None of my babies rode well in the car. The younger two were slightly better because of older siblings entertaining them, but I drove as little as possible until they were 1 or so.

[somo_chickenlady]

I worked in daycare with young babies for 14 years. I could usually get most babies onto a pretty good schedule fairly quickly. I would feed them at 8:00, nap for 1 hour at 9:00, then lunch at 11:00, nap between 12 and 12:30, sleep until 3-3:30 (3 hours usually), then snack when they woke, then they went home after that. I kept them all on a pretty strict schedule, b/c it was chaos otherwise. I was the master of getting any baby, in any daycare center, on the same schedule.

 

If you are okay with having her on a strict schedule, then I would begin by putting her down for a nap at a certain time, then wake her up, then keep her up and keep her occupied until the afternoon nap, then wake her up after a certain amount of time. If you think she needs an evening nap, only let her sleep for a while (my son needed this, but I only allowed him to sleep for 30-45 min). Especially if she doesn't fall asleep in the car, you shouldn't have a problem with this. It may take a week or two, but after a while she should get used to this and get accustomed to it, and you will find she will get tired around the same time every day. It will get easier the longer you do it. You eat at the same time every day, and you sleep at the same time every day. Almost every baby is capable of adjusting to this routine.

 

If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me at any time! :) Good luck!!

[wapiti]

My advice regarding sleep schedules (what I did with my six) - see Weissbluth. The times vary slightly depending on age and what else is going on in the sleep schedule.

 

Start with an early morning wake-up time, say 6:30 (I've never been able to do this - my kids would wake me up before that, lol).

 

For a 5-mo old, three naps: around 9 am (at first, with an overtired baby, start the nap less than two hours after waking up, so maybe 8:30-ish), next one around noon or so, and then one brief late afternoon nap (I can barely recall, maybe 3:30?).

 

Early bedtime: 6:30 or 7. This will gradually get slightly later until that late-afternoon third nap is dropped around 8-9 months, when the bedtime must be moved a bit earlier, back to 6:30.

 

That's my two cents - good luck :)

[Ellie]

My two babies woke around 7-8 a.m., had one 2-hr nap each day, and went to bed around 7 p.m. I was the first of my friends to have babies, and I was surprised when I learned later that many babies have two 1-hr naps. o_0

 

I like the two-hour naps.

 

ITA with somo_chickenlady. I'd do some serious scheduling, putting down for naps, waking after a specific time, keeping baby awake, and so on.

[Dianne-TX]

Thanks for the responses so far. I will wrap my head around your suggestions and see what happens. I've done this in the past, I know I have, but it was my first baby (now 12yo) that I had to figure out like this, so I've forgotten. My other two were fairly easy and scheduling wasn't difficult and they did it for me for the most part. I can do this, I know I can! :) Please share more. I need the encouragement and hand-holding. :)

[somo_chickenlady]

It just comes down to being determined to put them on the schedule you want. Some babies (and in my experience it is rare) will fight you tooth and nail, but most will slide themselves right into your routine. I mean, when babies are ill, or otherwise should need extra sleep, I had no problem with letting them have extra sleep, but otherwise any baby I had only took a week or two to get onto the same schedule as the others.

 

Don't get me wrong, b/c when it comes down to it, and when it is more of a one on one (no other children involved) schedule I had no problem with the baby determining their own schedule. I did feel that most babies did better with a routine. :)

[Dianne-TX]

Let me talk this out...right now, she usually goes to bed between 9 and 10, which is her cereal bottle feeding, and wakes up between 5 and 7. (8 hours sleep) If I let her last bottle be her 6 or 7pm bottle, then she might wake up at 2am or 3am to eat again (8 hours sleep) and then go back to sleep. She should then wake up at 6am or 7am (4 hours). If that occurs, then I start the daytime schedule at 6 or 7am, feed her, play/tummy time/talk for one-two hours and put her down for a nap at 8-9am and hopefully she sleeps longer than 30 min. (If she doesn't, do I work with her to sleep longer or just get her up?) After that nap, up to eat, play, then down again for another longer nap (hopefully) and then up, feed, play and then let the next bottle be her last bottle for bedtime (hopefully). Does that sound right? (if you followed my thinking. could be clear as mud.)

[wapiti]

I think that's about right! Earlier bedtime with an unfortunate middle of the night feeding - that may go away relatively quickly once the baby adjusts (or may take some growing). I found it much easier to think of the eating schedule separately - there may be some "awake" periods that involve more than one feeding, depending on how long it is (e.g., one feeding upon waking up and another before the next nap)

[Shellydon]

Some babies wake when they go through a sleep cycle (typically 45 minutes). When mine did this, I would sneak into their room a few minutes before I anticipated them waking and help them back to sleep when they woke. Patting, rocking, nursing --whatever worked. After about 4 days they would make it through the sleep cycle by themselves.

[Colleen in NS]

...my 5 month old sleeps fairly well at night (7-10 hours, avg. 8 hours most nights). She eats her bottle and then goes back to sleep for another 4 hours. Her sleep during the day is sporadic and usually not long. She will have three 30-45 min. naps before the evening. Sometimes she takes one longer nap, in the afternoon, but that isn't her norm. She'll also sometimes take another nap in the evening before her last bottle and bed for the night.

Let me talk this out...right now, she usually goes to bed between 9 and 10, which is her cereal bottle feeding, and wakes up between 5 and 7. (8 hours sleep) If I let her last bottle be her 6 or 7pm bottle, then she might wake up at 2am or 3am to eat again (8 hours sleep) and then go back to sleep. She should then wake up at 6am or 7am (4 hours). If that occurs, then I start the daytime schedule at 6 or 7am, feed her, play/tummy time/talk for one-two hours and put her down for a nap at 8-9am and hopefully she sleeps longer than 30 min. (If she doesn't, do I work with her to sleep longer or just get her up?) After that nap, up to eat, play, then down again for another longer nap (hopefully) and then up, feed, play and then let the next bottle be her last bottle for bedtime (hopefully).

 

 

First I just want to say (before I forget) that I bet her car-riding issues will resolve after you get her on a good sleep schedule.

 

Second, what time do *you* get up or want to get up on the morning? I would develop a routine from that benchmark.

 

Third, as for waking 30 minutes into a nap; I would let her learn to go back to sleep. If she is feeding well at each feeding time, then she wouldn't be waking from hunger. Sometimes babies pass through a light-sleep 30-45 minutes into naptime, and just need to learn to filter out distractions and relax back into a deep sleep. Naps will get longer and fewer as her feedings get spaced out as she gets older.

 

Last, looks like she is basically sleeping 12 hours a night (waking once to eat), sleeping sporadically during the day, and getting 5 feeds per 24-hour period. How about trying a 3.5 hour routine, making sure she gets full feeds, esp. at the 9 p.m. one (I started with 7 a.m.; pick your own daily start time and adjust my sample times from there)

 

7 a.m. - feed, diaper, awake/play time, nap at 9 a.m.

 

10:30 a.m. - feed, diaper, awake/play time, nap at 12:30 p.m.

 

2 p.m. - feed, diaper, awake/play time, nap at 4 p.m.

 

5:30 p.m. - feed, diaper, awake/play time, nap at 7:30 p.m.

 

9 p.m. - feed, diaper, back to bed for the night

 

(5 feedings and about 14-15 hours of sleep)

 

 

eventually spacing out the daytime routine like this:

 

7 a.m. - feed, diaper, awake/play time, nap at 9 a.m.

 

11 a.m. - feed, diaper, awake/play time, nap at 1 p.m.

 

3 p.m. - feed, diaper, awake/play time, short nap at 6 p.m?.

 

7 p.m. - feed, diaper, awake/play time, bed for the night at 8 p.m.

 

(4 feedings and about 15 hours of sleep)

 

The general idea, which worked for my two babies, was having a regular routine all day long, going into the evening (even though I was exhausted by then, lol), and baby going to bed at the same time as me, and eventually backing up that bedtime for baby. But the day time routine stayed consistent even as I spaced out the hours. I found that once my babies learned to nap for at least 1.5 hours, they were more content during their wakeful times, and they slept better during the nighttime sleep.

 

And if she gets 12 hours a night, as she grows she will eventually not need the morning nap anymore. You can then move the 11 a.m. feed to noon, and have her nap for 2-3 hours in the afternoon (sometime after one year of age) with a feed at 4/5 p.m. and a last feed at 8 p.m. until she's well onto solids for all three meals a day.

 

hth

[raceNzanesmom]

Is she still in an infant bucket style car seat? Many babies do better once they move to a rear facing convertible car seat.

[Mommyof4ks]

The car seat issue might just be there until she can turn around. My dd screamed until the day she turned around. We never did figure out why. One doc suggested it might be nausea, because riding backwards causes that in many people. My only non-routine baby was worn a lot. I tried to get him on a schedule, but I finally gave up and wore him. He slept that way well too.

[Dianne-TX]

Well, today has been okay. She slept until 2:30am, ate and went back to sleep until 7. She ate and slept a little on that bottle, but was awake fully until 10:20 and was ready for her next bottle. She then went to sleep and slept almost an hour! Yay!!! Got up, played, but her next feeding didn't go well. She didn't finish it and kept pulling away from it. I've been working with to eat baby food, so we tried some carrots and she's getting better with her tongue and actually ate several bites. So, even though she didn't eat all of her 1:30 bottle, she had some carrots with it. She was getting really tired around 2:30, so put her to sleep at 2:45. She woke up at 3:10. I let her go a little bit, went in, gave her the paci and shushed her and patted her tummy to calm her. Left, cried again, let her go a little bit, went back in, etc. After doing this for 15 min., I went ahead and changed her wet diaper to see if that would help. I also got a lullaby cd and turned that on in her room (music sometimes helps her in the car for a little while). Went back to her room, held her and swayed her with her paci and blanket. Her eyes were drowsy. Laid her down again and she was quiet for a little while, started crying, quieted down, cried, etc. Finally stayed quiet at 4:05. She is due to eat at 4:30, so we'll see if she wakes up or sleeps. She sometimes goes 4 hours during the day with her eating. If she stays asleep, then I'll keep her up until her 7:30 or 8 bottle and I'm sure she'll be ready for the night by that time since she hasn't had much sleep today, again. I know we'll finally get there, just takes time.

 

As for the carseat issue, she is still rear facing in an infant seat. We've wondered if the riding makes her feel bad because she isn't unhappy in her carseat in the house, it's only as we are out and about. She doesn't scream constantly, but she's never completely happy during a trip either. My others were not like this. Nothing really helps console her, sometimes not even her bottle. I know this will take time, too. I'm accepting her for who she is, but I also like to know if there is something I could do to help it. It stresses us all out, especially my oldest who is easily stressed. Trips out with her are few and far between. :) I just remind the kids that she's either going to cry, be quiet, play or sleep just like they did and that we just love her in all those times and to try and be calm when she is really upset. Her big sister is the calmest one of all, so she usually sits by her. :)

[raceNzanesmom]

 

As for the carseat issue, she is still rear facing in an infant seat. We've wondered if the riding makes her feel bad because she isn't unhappy in her carseat in the house, it's only as we are out and about. She doesn't scream constantly, but she's never completely happy during a trip either. My others were not like this. Nothing really helps console her, sometimes not even her bottle. I know this will take time, too. I'm accepting her for who she is, but I also like to know if there is something I could do to help it. It stresses us all out, especially my oldest who is easily stressed. Trips out with her are few and far between. :) I just remind the kids that she's either going to cry, be quiet, play or sleep just like they did and that we just love her in all those times and to try and be calm when she is really upset. Her big sister is the calmest one of all, so she usually sits by her. :)

 

 

Most people that get car sick aren't bothered with rear facing until they can see out the window. Riding RF in itself isn't usually the issue, it's seeing the world fly by; same with people that get sick FF. I would make sure the infant seat isn't overly reclined and perhaps try a RF convertible seat. My BFF's friend cried all the time in his infant seat (seriously, from the first moment in until the last minute out). Now that he's RF in a RFing Radian convertible seat he's happy except during the hours of 6-8 pm (at which time ALL he wants is rocked). He's 7 months.

 

For your older child, could you try an iPod with music or an audiobook and earbuds? That might help with the stress level.

[Lucy in Australia]

My DD screamed blue murder in her car seat until she was 6 months old & we put her in a forward facing seat. It was like a magic button. I still don't know if it was because she could see everyone else in the car or because it just felt better physically to go forward. As for the scheduling, I'm late coming into this conversation so I don't have much to add except to say that after starting out all easy-going & non-scheduled with this baby, out of desperation I put her on a fairly strict eating & sleeping routine at around 8 months & I wish I'd done it wayyyyyyyyyyy sooner. Within a week she was a different child; slept more, went to bed more easily, ate more (instead of lots of snacking) & was better able to play alone for a little longer. Good luck!

[raceNzanesmom]

All babies/toddlers need to stay RF until at least age 2.

[Ottakee]

I have had over 100 foster kids, most of them babies and toddlers. I HAD to have a schedule when I had 3-4 little ones at a time. I was successful even with the babies that NEVER slept according to the social worker.

 

Their room was dark with just a 7 watt lightbulb with dark mini blinds. I had a radio playing very quietly in the background or a sound machine. When I would put them down for a nap I would zip them up in a blanket sleeper as I know that I want a light blanket on to sleep.

 

My schedule was 7:30-8am wake up/breakfast/play

 

10am nap time (usually about 1 hour)

 

wake up, eat, play, be read to (with the other kids)

 

1:30 nap time for EVERYONE under school age

 

Then another brief nap about 5 or so if needed but not more than 1/2 hour

 

Bedtime was about 9pm.

 

This is just what worked for me but once the kids reached about 5 months old I had to get them on a schedule to keep my sanity.

[Ellie]

All babies/toddlers need to stay RF until at least age 2.

 

I understand that this is the current philosophy, but I think that's too much. I'm trying to imagine forcing a 2yo child to recline in a carseat facing the back of the seat instead of sitting up and being able to look around...No. I cannot.

[Shellydon]

If you don't already, try a white noise machine. Lovely invention!

[Scuff]

My baby has a touch of reflux and used to scream and scream in the car. After 4 babies that traveled well, it really threw us for a loop. Someone suggested trying the convertable carseat instead of the bucket carrier and she has traveled pretty well since. The first time she fell asleep in the car I wanted to cry happy tears.

[Lucy in Australia]

All babies/toddlers need to stay RF until at least age 2.

 

 

Wow, I didn't realise this was the case in the US. Very grateful we're allowed to put our babies in forward facing seats from 6 months- we all would have lost our minds!

[Truscifi]

All babies/toddlers need to stay RF until at least age 2.

 

When did this become the recommendation? I've always heard 1 year. And ds9 was so long we turned him FF a bit early (with our ped's blessing) because his legs were smushed up and he seemed very uncomfortable.

[phathui5]

We are talking about a 5 month old here? 4-5 feedings a day does not sound like enough calories for that age.

[phathui5]

This from SafetyBeltSafe USA:

 

When can I turn my baby around to face forward in the car?

When he is at least 2 years old, and preferably longer. (Swedish children ride rear-facing until at least three years old in safety seats made to fit larger children.) In a crash, an infant's spinal cord may stretch if she is riding facing forward, and the baby could die or be paralyzed for life. This is true even for babies who have strong neck muscles and good head control. For children between age 1 and 2, it is 5 times safer to ride facing the back of the car.

Most convertible safety seats can be used facing the rear up to 35-45 pounds. So there is no reason to turn your baby forward before age one and risk spinal injury. Do not use a rear-facing-only seat if your baby weighs more than the maximum shown in the instructions (22-35 lbs.) or if her head is within an inch of the top edge of the seat. When using a convertible seat rear-facing, make sure the child's head is below the top of the safety seat, so that the head is not exposed to contact with the vehicle interior.

Why is facing rearward so important?

Babies have heavy heads and fragile necks. The neck bones are soft, and the ligaments are stretchy. If the baby is facing forward in a frontal crash (the most common and most severe type of crash), the body is held back by the straps, but the head is not. The head is thrust forward, stretching the neck. Older children and adults wearing safety belts may end up with temporary neck injuries. But a baby's neck bones are soft and actually separate during a crash, and the spinal cord can tear. It's like yanking an electrical plug out of a socket by the cord and breaking the wires.

In contrast, when a baby rides facing rearward, the whole body--head, neck, and torso--is cradled by the back of the safety seat in a frontal crash. Facing rearward also protects the baby better in other types of crashes, particularly side impacts. For more information, go to "Rear-facing vs. forward-facing."

<a name="feet">Is it safe for my rear-facing baby’s feet to touch the vehicle seatback?

There is no evidence that longer legs are at risk of injury in a crash; in fact, leg and foot injuries are more common in children facing the front of the car. Most children learn to fold up their legs for comfort when their feet touch the back of the vehicle seat. The only physical limit on rear-facing use is when the child's head comes near the top of the safety seat. At this point, the child should be moved to a rear-facing convertible restraint. For taller rear-facing children, the concern is not potential leg injuries but possible head contact with the vehicle interior in a severe rear impact or during rebound from a severe frontal collision. This can be controlled by using a rear-facing seat equipped with a rear-facing tether (Swedish style).

[staceyobu]

 

When did this become the recommendation? I've always heard 1 year. And ds9 was so long we turned him FF a bit early (with our ped's blessing) because his legs were smushed up and he seemed very uncomfortable.

 

 

The AAP recently came out with this recommendation. Car seat advocates have been saying it for years. Rear facing older kids do not need the same level of recline that younger infants need. They can sit much more upright while rear facing. Kids will learn to sit cross legged or to prop their legs up on the back of the seat. Even four year olds can sit comfortably rear facing. Some carseats do allow for more leg room rear facing than others.

 

A ped should not say it is okay to FF earlier than a year. I don't believe any state laws allow it. And, no carseats should allow it either. A ped can't tell you it is okay to break the law and go against the carseat requirements. However, your 9 year old is old enough that education has changed significantly since then.

[AndyJoy]

 

I understand that this is the current philosophy, but I think that's too much. I'm trying to imagine forcing a 2yo child to recline in a carseat facing the back of the seat instead of sitting up and being able to look around...No. I cannot.

 

The convertible seats for extended rear facing don't recline anywhere near as much as an infant seat. It's a comfortable angle and much more comfortable for naps in the car! If the kid doesn't know any different, there is no forcing about it! DS was RF in a convertible seat from 4-22 mo. and it was no big deal. I intended to keep him RF as long as it worked for us, and it stopped working at 22 mo. when I visited a friend for two weeks whose cars was to small for him to RF. Since he got used to FF I didn't go back. At 2 there wasn't much he could see out the window FF either. He is less comfortable FF when he falls asleep as he's so upright his head lolls around.