Talk to me about elemental science?

[BugsMama]

I just don't *get* it. When I look at the samples, it looks like a schedule, with a book list, and blank note booking pages. Why would I not just get an encyclopedia and an experiment book, and schedule my own? Is there something else in there that I am just not seeing?

 

People keep recommending this, and I feel like I am missing some key part of the information. What makes it a curriculum and not just a schedule?

[melbotoast]

:bigear:

[skimomma]

I am also interested!

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

It is a schedule, selected books and a notebook.Sure you can do something similar with your own stuff but some do not want to have to do all the planning. This is true with all curriculum in a sense. They pick material, schedule it, offer suggestions.

[BugsMama]

Ok. Bummer. I was hoping it had content of its own in there somewhere.

 

I don't really consider something as "curriculum" unless it has content- like a textbook, review questions, handouts, activities and such IN it. I don't want to purchase something just to be told the instructions for everything are in another book, and to go purchase that.

[skimomma]

I do have more questions about this. I am looking at the Classic Series for next year (5th grade). For those that have used it, can you tell me the following:

 

1. How many days a week do you use it and how much time is spent?

2. Are the selected books easily found in a typical small-town library with interlibrary loan? Is there more than one book recommendation in case we cannot find one?

3. Does the experiment kit include everything needed for the experiments?

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Ok. Bummer. I was hoping it had content of its own in there somewhere.

 

I don't really consider something as "curriculum" unless it has content- like a textbook, review questions, handouts, activities and such IN it. I don't want to purchase something just to be told the instructions for everything are in another book, and to go purchase that.

Hmmm, I am confused, isn't that what teachers manuals do besides a give a schedule? Give instruction for a student text (whether textbook or reader) you purchase separately unless it is in a kit. A curriculum usually includes a teachers guide/manual, book(s)/textbook and maybe tests or activity sheets. ES has those components. ES has a teachers book, the book includes a schedule, ideas, and weekly "tests". It has a set of books that they use with the teachers manual(they let you find the cheapest way to get the books but offer a link to amazon for the books). There is also a notebook you can or cannot purchase depending on your preference. I like the notebook because it gives a defined amount of space for young children to write a narration in and provide a picture to go with the narration. Each year the amount of narration increases as well as the space for the narration. Memorization of a poem or few poems, web sites to view, and ideas to go farther if we want.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I do have more questions about this. I am looking at the Classic Series for next year (5th grade). For those that have used it, can you tell me the following:

 

1. How many days a week do you use it and how much time is spent?

2. Are the selected books easily found in a typical small-town library with interlibrary loan? Is there more than one book recommendation in case we cannot find one?

3. Does the experiment kit include everything needed for the experiments?

I haven't used the logic stage levels yet, only the grammar stage. We do the curriculum 5 days a week. As for the library question, I cannot answer. The books are easy to find used, I found all my books on ebay/amazon used books, or used book store for very little $$. I have also substituted books and had no problem. Just matched up the subject being coverd for the day in the book I was using. As for the experiment kit...didn't know one was offered. For the grammar stage experiments we always found what we needed in the house or at walmart/grocery, but I have only used the life science and earth/space.

[skimomma]

I haven't used the logic stage levels yet, only the grammar stage. We do the curriculum 5 days a week. As for the library question, I cannot answer. The books are easy to find used, I found all my books on ebay/amazon used books, or used book store for very little $$. I have also substituted books and had no problem. Just matched up the subject being coverd for the day in the book I was using. As for the experiment kit...didn't know one was offered. For the grammar stage experiments we always found what we needed in the house or at walmart/grocery, but I have only used the life science and earth/space.

 

 

Thanks. After looking at the site more, there was only an experiment kit for Biology and it is "not available" so I guess that answers that:)

 

Anyone use the Logic Stage series yet? I am very curious. So far every single science curriculum we have attempted has been a failure because of the materials needed for the experiments. We live in a rural area and it is really hard to get the stuff we need, even basic stuff. I don't care if it is expensive, I would really like a kit that just has it all so I am not running around and trying to improvise.......

[ByGrace3]

It is a schedule, booklist, notebooking pages and more. While you could create your own, this curriculum is really cheap so my time is worth it. Also, the books are lined up with experiments, vocabulary is built in, there are quizzes, experiment sheets, the pictures for the notebooking are all there and ready for you. I would hate to have to find all of that. There is quite a bit to it. I buy the PDF's, read the TM on my iPad and print two sets of the workbooks for my kids and have them spiral bound at Staples. It is more than just read a section of an encyclopedia and do a narration. The cut and paste images, vocabulary, experiments, experiment sheets, and quizzes definitely make it worth it imo.

 

To the pp that asked about getting the books at the library. I easily found the books at amazon used or Rainbow. I can't imagine using the library just because there are only a few books and you use each for a long time. I guess you could use the library, but you would have to recheck them out and then they may not be available.

 

I gave my dh the experiment list in the beginning of the year and he went out and got all the supplies for me so they are on hand...

[BugsMama]

ES has a teachers book, the book includes a schedule, ideas, and weekly "tests". It has a set of books that they use with the teachers manual(they let you find the cheapest way to get the books but offer a link to amazon for the books). There is also a notebook you can or cannot purchase depending on your preference. I like the notebook because it gives a defined amount of space for young children to write a narration in and provide a picture to go with the narration. Each year the amount of narration increases as well as the space for the narration. Memorization of a poem or few poems, web sites to view, and ideas to go farther if we want.

 

 

That's what I am trying to figure out. The teachers manuals I have and love tend to have discussion questions (some even give you a discussion script), and then they have student materials that include content from the curriculum provider (rather than just pointing you in the direction of another book). I understand that some programs don't do this- and that's what I don't want. I don't want to be handed a schedule. I want discussions and activities and questions and ideas- Content- that I wouldn't think up on my own.

 

I feel the same way other programs that are nothing but schedules and links- I swear, I'm not picking on ES.... I'm just being picky about what I spend my money on.

 

So- ES has tests? What do the "ideas" consist of? Are the poems included?

[BugsMama]

The cut and paste images, vocabulary, experiments, experiment sheets, and quizzes definitely make it worth it imo.

 

Are there experiments that aren't in the books you're supposed to buy, or do you mean they created lab sheets to go with that book's experiments? The cut and paste stuff- is that for the notebook?

 

Thank you for the help! I feel like science is the one thing I can't quite nail down.

[coffeegal]

 

Thanks. After looking at the site more, there was only an experiment kit for Biology and it is "not available" so I guess that answers that:)

 

Anyone use the Logic Stage series yet? I am very curious. So far every single science curriculum we have attempted has been a failure because of the materials needed for the experiments. We live in a rural area and it is really hard to get the stuff we need, even basic stuff. I don't care if it is expensive, I would really like a kit that just has it all so I am not running around and trying to improvise.......

 

Yes, I'm using the Logic biology this year and picked up the kit. The kit is great and included a lot of the knick-knack stuff that I always forget to pick up at the store: marbles, pennies, rubber bands, cotton balls, plastic containers, thermometer, felt, seeds, etc. It did not include paper towels, aluminum foil, lettuce, snails, apples, worms, etc. I went out and purchased a roll of paper towels and a roll of aluminum foil to make certain we had that on hand. Imho, the kit was worth the money. It made the difference between the experiments being done versus groaning and giving up. :hat: I was rather horrified that the kit isn't available now. :scared:

[skimomma]

 

Yes, I'm using the Logic biology this year and picked up the kit. The kit is great and included a lot of the knick-knack stuff that I always forget to pick up at the store: marbles, pennies, rubber bands, cotton balls, plastic containers, thermometer, felt, seeds, etc. It did not include paper towels, aluminum foil, lettuce, snails, apples, worms, etc. I went out and purchased a roll of paper towels and a roll of aluminum foil to make certain we had that on hand. Imho, the kit was worth the money. It made the difference between the experiments being done versus groaning and giving up. :hat: I was rather horrified that the kit isn't available now. :scared:

 

OK, where did you get snails?

 

What do you plan to do in the others years that do not have kits?

[truebluexf]

We use logic biology and it's wonderful, so independent. My 10yo does it almost all himself, and adores the independence of it. There is more to it than we even use. We do it over 3 days. First day is the lab, which is all spelled out in his notebook for him. He starts the lab, and the writing for it, and completes the writing if it's a one day lab. The next day he reads and outlines. The last day he finishes the lab, does vocab words, and labels the sketch. (In logic stage there are no cut and paste pictures like grammar.)There is memory work also if wanted. In the teacher guide there are extra labs for those who want more too!

 

There is also an option to study a scientist weekly and enter them and other info on a timeline.

 

We bought the lab kit but if it hadnt been available, I would have ordered most pieces ahead of time from somewhere like home science tools.

 

My son really enjoys the curriculum (well he hates the writing, but he hates writing...lol.)

 

In the TM, there are discussion questions and info for teacher on the labs. The required texts are not expensive and easy to get ahold of, and some are used throughout the levels.

 

Probably the only thing I dislike are the sketches, only because I wish there were already lines drawn to the items to be labeled, my son is a little overwhelmed without that. It's a little confusing, but really if I draw them in it solves the problem.

[ByGrace3]

 

 

Are there experiments that aren't in the books you're supposed to buy, or do you mean they created lab sheets to go with that book's experiments? The cut and paste stuff- is that for the notebook?

 

Thank you for the help! I feel like science is the one thing I can't quite nail down.

 

 

Most of the experiments are in other books, but there are a few in the TM I believe. The sheets go along with both. The TM's have the supply lists each week as well, this is very helpful. The cut and paste stuff is for the notebooking. There are poems. Well in he TM which I personally find very helpful, and my do love.

 

If you are looking for scripted discussions, then ES is not for you. I like scripted in much of my curriculum but don't find the need for it in science. We read, do narrations, notebook, discuss vocabulary, orally go over quizzes, and do experiments. It is very straightforward WTM science.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I agree with a pp, if you are looking for scripted then ES is not for you. One suggestion is BJU. It is completely scripted, thorough, and an excellent curriculum. Lots of questions asked and not just the verbatim type. There are plenty of hands on experiments and teacher demonstrations, lab pages, activity sheets and tests. What is nice is the teachers manual usually will give alternative ideas for lab supplies to help keep the cost of supplies down. We have used BJU for many of the 20 yrs homeschooling and I was never disappointed, especially with the new editions.

[Guest carmelitemom]

Hi...I am very new here and starting to do some science searches. Haven't found one we have settled into yet. I was looking at Elemental Science and that led me here. Could you tell me what *BJU* is?

 

What we have tried: Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding, Apologia, NOEO. I really want to teach science in the classical tradition but haven't found our niche yet. I was looking at Elemental Science, Living Learning Books, and Memoria Press series.

 

For those who are using Elemental Science, do you prefer ebook or hard copy?

 

Thanks in advance for any info on this topic.

 

Theresa (homeschooling 8 yr. old daughter)

[FairProspects]

One aspect I'm not sure has been mentioned yet is that ES is very language-based and very linear. Many science-loving kids don't necessarily work that way, but like to dig right in, get some results, tweak what didn't work, try it again, intuit the problem, make it light up, fix something else, etc. This is going through the real scientific process too, but it's not very pretty, linear, or organized and I couldn't make ES work with the science I saw happening at our house. It may work better for those who school in a more verbal or book based manner.

[skimomma]

I still want to know where you get snails......

[RootAnn]

We're using ES's Logic Stage Biology this year, but I tweaked it some. If you want logic stage biology that has a kit available, ClassiQuest logic Stage Biology has one. CQ is similiar to ES in a lot of ways, so the stuff you see written about logic stage ES is pretty similar to CQ. (I had a hard time deciding between the two.)

 

All the experiments are in the student book or TM with ES LS Bio. (I can't remember which because I compiled my own "student guide" that has it all in there. I don't know why the schedule is in the TM when it should be in the student book!) There are memorization sections (not poems, just a list) and discussion questions as well as "if you want more" ideas.

 

... And I don't know where you get snails at this time of year where I am.

[coffeegal]

I still want to know where you get snails......

 

 

I rearranged the kids' biology curricula so we studied animals in fall quarter. It was rather simple to send the kids outside to look for slugs (instead of snails) and worms. They had a great time and came in 20 minutes later with the critters. If I needed to purchase snails I'd check at a pet store first.

[tuzor]

 

That's what I am trying to figure out. The teachers manuals I have and love tend to have discussion questions (some even give you a discussion script), and then they have student materials that include content from the curriculum provider (rather than just pointing you in the direction of another book). I understand that some programs don't do this- and that's what I don't want. I don't want to be handed a schedule. I want discussions and activities and questions and ideas- Content- that I wouldn't think up on my own.

 

I feel the same way other programs that are nothing but schedules and links- I swear, I'm not picking on ES.... I'm just being picky about what I spend my money on.

 

So- ES has tests? What do the "ideas" consist of? Are the poems included?

 

I can't speak on Logic stage but my family has used ES for two years. This program does not give you discussions/question ideas. We are using Earth and Astronomy this year we have activities from the Janice VanCleave science books. In my opinion the program is very light. You may want to look into Real Science Odessey.

 

Are there experiments that aren't in the books you're supposed to buy, or do you mean they created lab sheets to go with that book's experiments? The cut and paste stuff- is that for the notebook?

 

Thank you for the help! I feel like science is the one thing I can't quite nail down.

 

We are using Earth and Space and our activities/experiments are from Jan Van Cleave books.

[acablue]

One aspect I'm not sure has been mentioned yet is that ES is very language-based and very linear. Many science-loving kids don't necessarily work that way, but like to dig right in, get some results, tweak what didn't work, try it again, intuit the problem, make it light up, fix something else, etc. This is going through the real scientific process too, but it's not very pretty, linear, or organized and I couldn't make ES work with the science I saw happening at our house. It may work better for those who school in a more verbal or book based manner.

I could not agree with this more. I'm using Earth Science & Astronomy with my two boys (and a tag-along). I'm finding that it's perfect for my guy who loves reading and writing, but just okay for my curious future engineer.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Hi...I am very new here and starting to do some science searches. Haven't found one we have settled into yet. I was looking at Elemental Science and that led me here. Could you tell me what *BJU* is?

 

What we have tried: Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding, Apologia, NOEO. I really want to teach science in the classical tradition but haven't found our niche yet. I was looking at Elemental Science, Living Learning Books, and Memoria Press series.

 

For those who are using Elemental Science, do you prefer ebook or hard copy?

 

Thanks in advance for any info on this topic.

 

Theresa (homeschooling 8 yr. old daughter)

 

Bob Jones University Press

 

I prefer the hard copy, but that is with everything. I get the student notebook spiral bound at a print/copy store which makes it easy to use.

[Murrayshire]

We start our school year using CPO Earth Science.....it didn't work for us! There was just too much in the lab. We switched over to ES Earth Science and my 12 year old does it independently. We discuss the labs, readings, and go over the sketches. She makes a list a week before of all the supplies she'll need for her next lab and gathers them. We haven't had any issues of not having something yet, thank goodness! Overall, she is learning a lot and I'm happy that she is comfortable with it.

There are extra activities in the teacher manuel if they desire more.

One thing that dd does differently is she doesn't mark the timeline dates in her student book. We print the figure out from our History Through the Ages CD and she puts it on our History Wall Timeline.

I do wish that the weekly schedule was printed in the student book like it is in the TM, but we just jot it down the Friday before her new week in her weekly journal.

The publisher, Paige, is very helpful and if you email her with any questions she is pretty punctual about getting back with you! She has answered many questions for me and helped me decide a few things.

On our blog we have an ES page that we are slowly putting the experiments on. Check it out!

Good Luck!

[alisoncooks]

 

Bob Jones University Press I prefer the hard copy, but that is with everything. I get the student notebook spiral bound at a print/copy store which makes it easy to use.

Not to veer too far off-topic, but are you able to use BJU with multiple ages? (That's one thing I'm looking forward to with Elemental Science -- being able to combine both my girls....)

[Jennefer@SSA]

We have used ES: ESA for the Grammar Stage and the Logic Stage in our co-op this year. I help teach the Logic class one day a week. I have enjoyed this curriculum immensely. I am not a "sciencey" person and it was one of the subjects that just never got done in my house. ESA is simple (for mom to implement and students to understand) and straight forward yet thorough. I cannot say enough good things about ES. For our Logic stage students in co-op we have them read the material and do the vocabulary on Monday at home (this is a variation from Page's schedule as she has them read after the experiment in her schedule.), Tuesday is a co-op day and they review the vocabulary, do the experiment and the write up as well. Wednesday at home they outline their readings. Thursday is co-op again and they have a quiz over the reading (We added this in for a greater accountability as we found even with completing the outline students were not coming in prepared for an intelligent discussion. Now that there is a weekly quiz over the reading that issue disappeared immediately! ;), do the sketch, and discuss their readings (Paige usually has 3 questions per page they study and we usually add to that). If there is time left over they will play games reviewing material from past weeks for greater retention. Our co-op classes are 75 minutes 2x a week.

 

The materials for the experiments have been extremely easy to find and inexpensive. For the person who asked about the library, I agree with the pp who said that it's typically better to buy the books as there are only a few and you use them for many weeks.

[skimomma]

 

I rearranged the kids' biology curricula so we studied animals in fall quarter. It was rather simple to send the kids outside to look for slugs (instead of snails) and worms. They had a great time and came in 20 minutes later with the critters. If I needed to purchase snails I'd check at a pet store first.

 

Thanks:) I only asked because this is the sort of thing on a list that makes me toss a science program out the window. I have never seen a snail where I live so I suspect we do not have any....and certainly not during the 6 months of the year that we are under several feet of snow! Which is when we do school, of course. Nor do we have a pet shop. Closest one is a two-hour drive.....through that snow. If it is just one skip-able experiment, I can deal with that, but as soon as a supply list gets even slightly difficult, I run for the hills. I would love love LOVE a complete kit. I cannot tell if they plan to bring it back or if they will have kits for the other topics in the future. Otherwise, I am really drawn to this program. As is, aside from the snails, if I have a complete list that I can collect before we crack the first chapter, I will still be OK. And it looks like it does.

 

Sorry to keep bugging you on this....are there other animals or "perishable" ingredients that might be difficult to obtain?

[lmrich]

You can get snails at a pet store. People keep them in their aquariums. They are very cheap and easy to take care of.

[coffeegal]

Sorry to keep bugging you on this....are there other animals or "perishable" ingredients that might be difficult to obtain?

 

 

The material list is in the sample: http://www.elemental.../bio_logic.html

It's hard for me to tell what would be difficult to obtain because much of it is easy to find in my area.

 

:)

[bttrflyvld]

I emailed her a month ago on the matter of wheather they would have complete kits in the future and she said that they would at the beginning of the year. Hope that helps. You should contact her about the specific experiment kit you want. I had asked her about the grammer stage, but her response sounded like they would be getting kits ready for the next year starting the first of the year. she's really quick at responding to questions.

[skimomma]

The material list is in the sample: http://www.elemental.../bio_logic.html

It's hard for me to tell what would be difficult to obtain because much of it is easy to find in my area.

 

:)

 

Thanks!!!

[skimomma]

I emailed her a month ago on the matter of wheather they would have complete kits in the future and she said that they would at the beginning of the year. Hope that helps. You should contact her about the specific experiment kit you want. I had asked her about the grammer stage, but her response sounded like they would be getting kits ready for the next year starting the first of the year. she's really quick at responding to questions.

 

I will do that. Thank you!

[skimomma]

We're using ES's Logic Stage Biology this year, but I tweaked it some. If you want logic stage biology that has a kit available, ClassiQuest logic Stage Biology has one. CQ is similiar to ES in a lot of ways, so the stuff you see written about logic stage ES is pretty similar to CQ. (I had a hard time deciding between the two.)

 

All the experiments are in the student book or TM with ES LS Bio. (I can't remember which because I compiled my own "student guide" that has it all in there. I don't know why the schedule is in the TM when it should be in the student book!) There are memorization sections (not poems, just a list) and discussion questions as well as "if you want more" ideas.

 

... And I don't know where you get snails at this time of year where I am.

 

 

I am keeping ClassiQuest on my list of possibilities. I would feel better about using it if there was a firmer prediction on when the other books would be coming out. I would like to use the same program for all four years of the logic stage just because I spend WAY too much time picking curriculum. Much better to have some knowns each year. Or I am just lazy. :crying:

[RootAnn]

 

I am keeping ClassiQuest on my list of possibilities. I would feel better about using it if there was a firmer prediction on when the other books would be coming out. I would like to use the same program for all four years of the logic stage just because I spend WAY too much time picking curriculum. Much better to have some knowns each year. Or I am just lazy. :crying:

 

 

I understand this, although I haven't found a single science publisher/program that I've used more than once. None have made us happy enough long-term. :glare:

 

The most recent delay in CQ's schedule (not knowing what all the OTHER delays have been - and there have been many) is the author's father died this fall. :sad: