Algebra Fence Straddlers Master Thread

[texasmama]

Okay, I have ordered (cheap, used) a Dolciani pre algebra text, a Lial algebra text, a Jacob's text and a Foerster's text. I have access to MUS algebra from a friend. I will blindfold myself, throw them all up in the air together and choose the one which comes down closest to the hamster cage. :D (Sorry, I'm kind of goofy... ) Thank you to this thread for giving me the push I need to voluntarily stick my own head into an algebra book. The first step is the hardest one, as they say. :)

[dereksurfs]

Okay, I have ordered (cheap, used) a Dolciani pre algebra text, a Lial algebra text, a Jacob's text and a Foerster's text. I have access to MUS algebra from a friend. I will blindfold myself, throw them all up in the air together and choose the one which comes down closest to the hamster cage. :D (Sorry, I'm kind of goofy... ) Thank you to this thread for giving me the push I need to voluntarily stick my own head into an algebra book. The first step is the hardest one, as they say. :)

 

That's funny. I like your approach. :tongue_smilie:

 

Hopefully with all those texts available your decision making process should be somewhat easier. BTW, I've found it helpful to enlist my ds to test drive some of the programs. Then he also gets a greater sense of ownership when involved in the process.

[Mrs Twain]

Okay, I have ordered (cheap, used) a Dolciani pre algebra text, a Lial algebra text, a Jacob's text and a Foerster's text. I have access to MUS algebra from a friend. I will blindfold myself, throw them all up in the air together and choose the one which comes down closest to the hamster cage. :D

 

HAHAHAHAHA

Maybe I should just do that, too. I guess I need to order a couple more Algebra books first.

[Halcyon]

 

 

Thanks for the info.

 

At this point, we are leaning toward using the Dolciani Pre-Algebra: An Accelerated Course (1988) which I have a copy of, and which looks good.

 

After reading through old Dolciani threads, I am starting to think that I may not be a 1960's New Math type of girl. All of the set theory and proofs may be a little too "in the clouds" (as one poster remarked) for me. Therefore, I am leaning against the 1960's and 1970's Dolciani Algebra books.

 

I just ordered a Dolciani (1981) Algebra Structure and Method Book 1 Teacher's Edition for $6 plus shipping. If I like it, I'll get the student textbook for $0.99 plus shipping to go with it.

 

My thought is that the 1981 Algebra 1 book above may go well with the 1988 Pre-Algebra book...????? I have no idea, though, as I may be completely confused about all of this.

 

Any comments welcome.

 

my son is using the Dolciani Pre A as his spine right now, and I really like it. He can do it independently which we both really like, and I can throw in AoPS and Alcumus for fun challenges. I am leaning towards Dolciani Algebra too, and just ordered the same book as you did. It should come in the maiil eventually (oh, the pain of Amazon media mail...so slooooooow) and hopefully we can compare notes.

[Halcyon]

 

 

That's funny. I like your approach. :tongue_smilie:

 

Hopefully with all those texts available your decision making process should be somewhat easier. BTW, I've found it helpful to enlist my ds to test drive some of the programs. Then he also gets a greater sense of ownership when involved in the process.

 

I agree. I was pretty set on AoPS, and my son did use it for a couple of chapters, but after using DOlciani to work through some of the harder material, he decided he preferred it. We still use AoPS for fun, but it really does help at this point to get feedback from your child.

[Halcyon]

Okay, now you've all got me thinking about timelines, and when I want my son to complete what. I hadnt given it much thought, to be honest. I figured he would move along at the pace he needed to. He will finish Dolciani Pre A by next summer....he is in 5th now.....Should I not begin Algebra in 6th?

[texasmama]

 

 

That's funny. I like your approach. :tongue_smilie:

 

Hopefully with all those texts available your decision making process should be somewhat easier. BTW, I've found it helpful to enlist my ds to test drive some of the programs. Then he also gets a greater sense of ownership when involved in the process.

Absolutely he will look at them with me. This kid has proven to be very thoughtful in such decisions and will chose what is best rather than what is expedient or easiest. Love him. :)

[Mrs Twain]

my son is using the Dolciani Pre A as his spine right now, and I really like it. He can do it independently which we both really like, and I can throw in AoPS and Alcumus for fun challenges. I am leaning towards Dolciani Algebra too, and just ordered the same book as you did. It should come in the maiil eventually (oh, the pain of Amazon media mail...so slooooooow) and hopefully we can compare notes.

 

Glad you like the pre-algebra book!

Please do let me know what you think about the Dolciani Algebra 1 book when you get it.

[bethben]

Okay, now you've all got me thinking about timelines, and when I want my son to complete what. I hadnt given it much thought, to be honest. I figured he would move along at the pace he needed to. He will finish Dolciani Pre A by next summer....he is in 5th now.....Should I not begin Algebra in 6th?

 

If he understands Pre-Algebra, why not? I talked with my neighbor across the street who's husband is a math professor at the local college (he wasn't available). She told me that he had gone through linear algebra (a step beyond 2 semesters of college algebra) by the time he graduated from high school. I have my sixth grader doing algebra this year. I'm not sure at this point if he'll repeat algebra with AOPS or just go onto Algebra 2. Time will tell.

 

Beth

[Halcyon]

 

 

If he understands Pre-Algebra, why not? I talked with my neighbor across the street who's husband is a math professor at the local college (he wasn't available). She told me that he had gone through linear algebra (a step beyond 2 semesters of college algebra) by the time he graduated from high school. I have my sixth grader doing algebra this year. I'm not sure at this point if he'll repeat algebra with AOPS or just go onto Algebra 2. Time will tell.

 

Beth

 

Yes, I am considering revisiting AoPS PreA next year.

[dereksurfs]

Okay, now you've all got me thinking about timelines, and when I want my son to complete what. I hadnt given it much thought, to be honest. I figured he would move along at the pace he needed to. He will finish Dolciani Pre A by next summer....he is in 5th now.....Should I not begin Algebra in 6th?

 

Wow, he is really young. But good for him! It really depends on what you want to do with him. It might fun to take a little detour first after some pretty intense Pre-A like go through Zaccaro's Real World Algebra. Our copy just came in the mail yesterday and my son was already looking through and asking me questions about it. I think I want to integrate in between Pre-A and Algebra somewhere.

 

Have you decided to do one or two years of Algebra yet? You could always combine Dolciani with something else like LOF to add a little more interest or different perspective on things.

[regentrude]

Okay, now you've all got me thinking about timelines, and when I want my son to complete what. I hadnt given it much thought, to be honest. I figured he would move along at the pace he needed to. He will finish Dolciani Pre A by next summer....he is in 5th now.....Should I not begin Algebra in 6th?

 

If he is ready, sure. My son worked through the algebra 1 portion (ch. 1-12) of AoPS in 6th grade. We then took our time with the more complex topics and took a detour into discrete math.

If the student is ready, there is no reason NOT to begin algebra in 6th grade.

[Halcyon]

 

 

Wow, he is really young. But good for him! It really depends on what you want to do with him. It might fun to take a little detour first after some pretty intense Pre-A like go through Zaccaro's Real World Algebra. Our copy just came in the mail yesterday and my son was already looking through and asking me questions about it. I think I want to integrate in between Pre-A and Algebra somewhere.

 

Have you decided to do one or two years of Algebra yet? You could always combine Dolciani with something else like LOF to add a little more interest or different perspective on things.

 

This is a really good idea. Well, both ideas are good. I have Zaccaro ELementary and I think the "light and fun" feel to it would be a good idea. I am also thinking of Patty Paper Geometry for fun. I don't know if we will do 1 or 2 years of algebra, probably two, I am thinking. He doesn't LOVE LOF, but Dolciani plus something else, like the Zaccarro might be a good choice. Thank you!!

[dereksurfs]

This is a really good idea. Well, both ideas are good. I have Zaccaro ELementary and I think the "light and fun" feel to it would be a good idea. I am also thinking of Patty Paper Geometry for fun. I don't know if we will do 1 or 2 years of algebra, probably two, I am thinking. He doesn't LOVE LOF, but Dolciani plus something else, like the Zaccarro might be a good choice. Thank you!!

 

Dolciani, Algebra 1 (1992) just arrived today. I ended up with a nice copy for very little. I think my wife and son think I'm crazy with all these Algebra books now. I really like this edition. It has a few little pictures with brief math related stories. But It still reminds me of my 1970s edition with some layout refinements yet still very compact. In comparing it with Foerster I can tell these are both very high caliber Algebra 1 texts. I don't think anyone could go wrong with either.

 

Zaccarro's Real World Algebra is definately lighter and funner than these more serious 'get down to business' textbooks. I think the variety will be good to add to the mix.

 

I went ahead and ordered AoPS Intro to Algebra as well today. Like you I felt like I have to at least give it a try, even if a bit later into our Algebra 1 adventure. And I'm not sure how much of it we'll use either. But the great lectures combined their unique approach to problem solving is something I at least want to introduce.

 

I tell myself after Algebra I'll never aquire this many books for any single subject. But who knows, especially with the older used books, its hard not to pick up a few extras for pennies on the dollar. ;)

[Chez J]

can answer your first question about Foerster since I have researched it and recently purchased a copy which is on the way. Here is a good quote summerizing it from Math without Borders' website:

 

"You will need to separately purchase a copy of Foerster’s Algebra I: Expressions, Equations, and Applications.

ISBN10: 0131657089 / ISBN13: 978013165708

The lessons are based on the Prentice Hall Classics version, but there are only minor differences between this and earlier versions. Homeschool parents can order solution manuals for the current version from Pearson-Prentice Hall through their “Oasis†program." -- http://mathwithoutbo....com/?page_id=4

 

I was also considering using Math without Borders lectures to suppliment the Foerster's Algebra 1 book as they come highly recommended.

 

Anyway I picked up a 1999 copy with ISBN: 9780201324587 for ~ $4 +shipping.

 

 

I actually tried to sign up for Oasis on Wednesday. I wanted a sample of only one chapter so I could actually see the text since there are no samples online that I can find. They informed me that they would only sell me a full copy that I could later return if I didn't like it. Hrmp! Homeschoolers do not have the privelege of getting a sample.

[Catherine]

A little followup, for those who are interested, on Foerster "after the fact." For those who are looking at high school and beyond. My 15 yo ds seemed ready for Algebra in seventh grade, so I stretched him to the second semester with a pre-algebra "bridge", then got started with Foerster in January. He did fine, but ended up taking more than one year to complete the book. In tenth grade, he's in "Algebra 2" for a semester, having done geometry last year, and he's only encountered one topic, fractional exponents, that was not thoroughly done in Foerster. They are starting the quadratic formula now! So it's been a pleasant surprise to see how well-prepared he's been for algebra 2. Next semester, it's trig, then pre-calculus in the fall.

 

Foerster was an excellent program for us. It's thorough. I'd also agree with the idea of taking more than one year for algebra, or as long as it takes. I didn't realize that we were covering algebra 2 topics when I did "algebra 1" at home, but there you go.

 

One thought: ds did not do any formal pre-algebra program, as I thought Singapore through 6B would accomplish this, but I was wrong. Those topics are the ones that he found unfamiliar when he started brick and mortar school. If I had a do-over, I'd find a formal pre-algebra program for him.

[Matryoshka]

Foerster was an excellent program for us. It's thorough. I'd also agree with the idea of taking more than one year for algebra, or as long as it takes. I didn't realize that we were covering algebra 2 topics when I did "algebra 1" at home, but there you go.

 

I think this depends on the school and the program. One of my dds also did Foerster, and it was an excellent choice for her. She took the placement test (midterm) at the high school, scored very well and is now doing great in honors Geometry.

 

My second dd, for whom math is about her least favorite subject, did not score so well. She did not do Foerster's, but it wasn't her text that failed her - in retrospect when she didn't want me to teach her, I should've signed her up for an online class - going it alone and then going over it a couple of evenings a week with dad wasn't enough instruction and reinforcement. But she also had not been feeling well that day and seemed to have some pretty heavy text anxiety issues with that test, so I convinced them to let her take the final at the end of the summer for one more try. I didn't end up having her take it, and she's doing Algebra 1 Part B now.

 

The reason was that they most definitely teach the quadratic equation in Algebra I here. It was about 1/4 of the final (they kindly gave us a pretest/study guide). It even had a form of quadratic that neither Foerster's or Lial's (her text) taught at all, and she would have been expected to graph using it, as well as convert between one quadratic form and the other. I do consider quadratics a standard part of Algebra 1, not 2, but it did surprise me to have the modern school text go beyond what these well-regarded texts include.

 

If you're planning on putting them in high school or an outside class, find what the scope and sequence is - it apparently can vary widely. I just got Jacob's to look at for my younger - it doesn't even include point-slope form at all (just slope-intercept), nor function notation (it has functions, but not the notation, which these days is often taught even in some pre-algebras). Having to learn about functions and function notation is part of what held back dd2 on that midterm - the school text had it in chapter 1 or 2, and Foerster's and Lial's both have it at the very end of the text, so I had to scramble and put that in out of order, leaving less time for necessary review of the topics she had covered.

[~Anna~]

 

 

Ok, I just found an awesome resource I want to share with the group! The state of California has started an online library with 1000s of books and growing called Open Library. I just checked and they have many Dolciani Math books which have been digitized including the hard to find 1960s/1970s editions. This is great to compare and contrast the versions. Take a look here: http://openlibrary.o...arch?q=dolciani

 

Because of this resource it now takes the guessing out of what these books look inside like before buying. It also answers the questions regarding the differences in editions which for some of us isn't as big of an issue. In reviewing these I actually think I like the 1980s, 1990s version just fine. However now I can at least see what folks are talking about regarding their differences. :D

 

I also discovered that the 1970s Dolciani was my algebra book. ;)

 

I think I must be missing something, but when I go to open library to try to look at a book, it keeps telling me the file is protected. How are you all looking inside of these books?

[dereksurfs]

I think I must be missing something, but when I go to open library to try to look at a book, it keeps telling me the file is protected. How are you all looking inside of these books?

 

Ok, here are the steps to read these math books online:

1. First register with Open Library to checkout books.

2. Next go to the book. For example here is the Dolciani book I purchased after reviewing its full content online:

http://openlibrary.o...9707M/Algebra_1

3. On the right hand side click on eBook under Borrow.

4. On the Borrow screen select Read in Browser, then Read Online which has a nice reader builtin.

5. Review the full book contents

6. Please Return Book when done reviewing so others can borrow it as well. Click the 'Return Book' button in the upper left hand corner.

 

Note: Not all books have been scanned yet, but quite a few Dolciani Algebra books have.

 

Lastly, when you do a search such as Dolciani Algebra you will see which books you can borrrow. They are the ones with a little 'Borrow' icon to the right of their description. Some may currently be 'Checked Out' which also shows up in the same location next to their name.

[dereksurfs]

I actually tried to sign up for Oasis on Wednesday. I wanted a sample of only one chapter so I could actually see the text since there are no samples online that I can find. They informed me that they would only sell me a full copy that I could later return if I didn't like it. Hrmp! Homeschoolers do not have the privelege of getting a sample.

 

Yeah, I thought that might be the case. Though it would be nice to see samples before purchasing it. I wonder how necessary or useful the Solutions manual would be? I can imagine if Foerster is used as one's primary textbook it would be helpful. You may want to keep an eye on the used market as well including the various years of publication. I'm sure the new ones through Prentice Hall are more expensive by comparison.

 

Speaking of finding deals, I thought I would ask AoPS if they ever offer sales on their books, like maybe once a year. Well I got an answer back from the founder,

Richard Rusczyk, and apparenty they don't have specials or sales. Then upon checkout I noticed that if you buy 10 or more copies you get a 20% discount. And I thought hey, I bet we have enough parents preparing for Algebra that we could get 10 people together for a 'group buy.' But alas I went ahead and paid full price anyway since I wanted get the book sooner. :tongue_smilie:

[Mukmuk]

So glad that your son is liking Real World Algebra, Derek. I have not seen Lial's or Dolciani's but i do have Harold Jacobs as a fall back to AoPS, and realize that while it appeals to *me*, it doesn't necessarily appeal to DS. He has a younger, more quirky humor that Zacarro caters to, complete with cute characters. DS says that Zacarro (he did all the books) reads like AoPS, ie, the author speaks directly to the child. My suggestion would be that you get your son to read through the RWA chapters himself (or you read it with him, like we did), with you on hand ready to jump in when he needs. DS loves AoPS and now insists on reading it, checking through by himself. I think these are habits that had its roots in Zacarro (yay!).

[dereksurfs]

...

If you're planning on putting them in high school or an outside class, find what the scope and sequence is - it apparently can vary widely. I just got Jacob's to look at for my younger - it doesn't even include point-slope form at all (just slope-intercept), nor function notation (it has functions, but not the notation, which these days is often taught even in some pre-algebras). Having to learn about functions and function notation is part of what held back dd2 on that midterm - the school text had it in chapter 1 or 2, and Foerster's and Lial's both have it at the very end of the text, so I had to scramble and put that in out of order, leaving less time for necessary review of the topics she had covered.

 

Thanks for sharing your dd's experience and this Algebra 1 scope information. I know the s&s varies a lot from one program to the next. You did make me curious about these subject areas which seemed missing from Jacobs. So I went and checked some of the curriculum I have (Foerster, Dolciani, TabletClass). First of all I made a stop at my son's Pre-Algebra program -TabletClass. Sure enough, it includes a section on point-slope as well as functions. Now the finer disctinction you are making between functions and function notation I'm not sure about. Of course I don't have the Jacobs to look at. But for example my son's Pre-A has a chapter on functions and within that chapter there is a description of function notation (e.g. y = f(x)). There is also a description of functions using this notation such as f(x) = 2x +4. I found similar things in the other texts as well. The only I couldn't find easily was point-slope in Dolciani. Maybe its there and I just didn't see it. I don't have the AoPS Intro to Algebra text yet, but imagine these topics are covered in it as well.

 

You also make a good point about sequence. I think that is probably more relevant for those making a switch into public or private schools midway through their books. Or with some programs such as Jacobs its good to be aware of potential missing topics not covered at all before testing.

[boscopup]

nm... figured out the "Daisy" thing. Duh! :tongue_smilie:

[Matryoshka]

Thanks for sharing your dd's experience and this Algebra 1 scope information. I know the s&s varies a lot from one program to the next. You did make me curious about these subject areas which seemed missing from Jacobs. So I went and checked some of the curriculum I have (Foerster, Dolciani, TabletClass). First of all I made a stop at my son's Pre-Algebra program -TabletClass. Sure enough, it includes a section on point-slope as well as functions. Now the finer disctinction you are making between functions and function notation I'm not sure about. Of course I don't have the Jacobs to look at. But for example my son's Pre-A has a chapter on functions and within that chapter there is a description of function notation (e.g. y = f(x)). There is also a description of functions using this notation such as f(x) = 2x +4. I found similar things in the other texts as well. The only I couldn't find easily was point-slope in Dolciani. Maybe its there and I just didn't see it. I don't have the AoPS Intro to Algebra text yet, but imagine these topics are covered in it as well.

 

These things would not have been as glaring to me if I hadn't just wrapped up a whole year of actually teaching from two of the Algebra books (the joy of twins). The overall S&S it's true doesn't matter much at all if you're not trying to take someone else's midterm. However, leaving out things like point-slope and function notation is more problematic as they are things that subsequent books would just expect you to know. For the former, it's not just the form that is taught, but how to derive one formula from the other, and when each is most useful. For the latter, like you said, it's often taught in Pre-A these days. And yes, it's the f(x) notation I'm talking about. Not difficult at all, but any test assuming Algebra a kid takes these days, whether it be a standardized test or for cc classes, would include it and would quite probably confuse them.

 

That other form of the quadratic (vertex form: y=a(x-h)^2 +k ) that the school book taught is not in any of the other Algebra I texts I have excep the school's text (I don't have Dolciani, but I have Foerster's, Lial's, and Jacobs). It is in AoPS, which I also have, but it includes many Algebra II topics, so that doesn't clear things up.

 

I guess what really surprised me is after all the people saying "well, the public school's Algebra I class didn't even cover quadratics or some other standard Algebra I topic - that's in Algebra II now", it surprised me that ours seemed to actually seemed to go beyond what I thought was in the traditional Algebra I S&S.

[~Anna~]

Ok, here are the steps to read these math books online:

1. First register with Open Library to checkout books.

2. Next go to the book. For example here is the Dolciani book I purchased after reviewing its full content online:

http://openlibrary.o...9707M/Algebra_1

3. On the right hand side click on eBook under Borrow.

4. On the Borrow screen select Read in Browser, then Read Online which has a nice reader builtin.

5. Review the full book contents

6. Please Return Book when done reviewing so others can borrow it as well. Click the 'Return Book' button in the upper left hand corner.

 

Note: Not all books have been scanned yet, but quite a few Dolciani Algebra books have.

 

Lastly, when you do a search such as Dolciani Algebra you will see which books you can borrrow. They are the ones with a little 'Borrow' icon to the right of their description. Some may currently be 'Checked Out' which also shows up in the same location next to their name.

 

Thanks so much for typing all of that out. I signed up for an account, but I still cannot see anything. There is no option to click on ebook for me under "borrow". If I click on the link Daisy under "read" it takes me to a page saying it is a protected file and can only be opened with a key from the Library of Congress. ??????????

[dereksurfs]

Thanks so much for typing all of that out. I signed up for an account, but I still cannot see anything. There is no option to click on ebook for me under "borrow". If I click on the link Daisy under "read" it takes me to a page saying it is a protected file and can only be opened with a key from the Library of Congress. ??????????

 

Anna, if you click on this link you will see the Borrow/ eBook link right under Read / Daisy directly to the right of the book:

http://openlibrary.o...9707M/Algebra_1

 

 

 

I'm not sure if you and possibly others were under the impression that *all* the books are in the form of eBooks. They are not yet. Only the books which have 'Borrow Icon' can be checked out Like the Dolciani in this link. They are working on scanning more, but there are still a good number, especially the Dolciani math books available for check out.

[~Anna~]

Oh yes, I understood that not all of them were available. But I had clicked on your link before and I just clicked on the one you just gave and neither one show that for me. It only says the "physical copy, local" part under Borrow. Very weird. Thanks for trying though. :-)

[dereksurfs]

These things would not have been as glaring to me if I hadn't just wrapped up a whole year of actually teaching from two of the Algebra books (the joy of twins). The overall S&S it's true doesn't matter much at all if you're not trying to take someone else's midterm. However, leaving out things like point-slope and function notation is more problematic as they are things that subsequent books would just expect you to know...

 

I guess what really surprised me is after all the people saying "well, the public school's Algebra I class didn't even cover quadratics or some other standard Algebra I topic - that's in Algebra II now", it surprised me that ours seemed to actually seemed to go beyond what I thought was in the traditional Algebra I S&S.

 

As I was thinking about your experiences and these topics which you taught, something dawned on me. Various schools are now following new State and National Math Standards. Some states are stricker than others for now anyway. And our curriculum 'TabletClass' mentions that it is based on these standards. So I emailed the owner, John Zimmerman, about this. He replied back:

 

"All states “had†their own standards a few years ago but many (over half now) have switched to the common core curriculum national standards. The common core standards are a federal standard and all states will be using them eventually." -- http://www.corestand...h Standards.pdf

 

In reviewing this common core standard I can see where it clearly includes areas such as function notation. However it also appears that they leave the method in which this is taught up to the school to some extent. For example it doesn't say that 'function notation' shall be addressed in Algebra 1. Rather it is a core area for High School math amoung other areas. Maybe some schools introduce these core elements earlier on in their programs, even some in Pre-Algebra courses. I know John Zimmerman does this in his classes earlier rather than latter to prepare students for more advanced work. That is one of the reasons I like TabletClass.

[dereksurfs]

Oh yes, I understood that not all of them were available. But I had clicked on your link before and I just clicked on the one you just gave and neither one show that for me. It only says the "physical copy, local" part under Borrow. Very weird. Thanks for trying though. :-)

 

Ok, that is very strange. This is part of the reason I posted the image of the web page as it sounded like something odd was going on. Its partially funded by California Libraries. But nowhere does it say that it is only for California residents, at least that I could see. So I wonder why you are not able to 'Borrow' the books as I can. I would be interested if others outside CA can view them as well?

 

I just found this in their FAQ. So I don't think its a regional issue. Its most likely a browser or other technical problem.

How does borrowing a book work through Open Library?

 

The Internet Archive and participating libraries have selected digitized books from their collections that are available to be borrowed by one patron at a time from anywhere in the world for free. These books are in BookReader, PDF and ePub formats (and Daisy for the print disabled). You can choose which format you prefer as you complete the borrowing process.

BookReader editions may be read online immediately in your web browser. No special software is required.

Other Internet Archive loans are managed through Adobe Digital Editions, which you may need to download to manage your library of borrowed books.

[boscopup]

If I do a search for Dolciani, telling it to only show me ebooks, it gives me a nice list of Dolciani books. Some have an option to "read" next to them. Most just have the Daisy padlock (and now I know what the Daisy thing is). One book, the geometry book by Jurgenson, has a "borrow" link next to it, and I'm able to check that one out. The others do not have the ebook as a borrow option.

[~Anna~]

If I do a search for Dolciani, telling it to only show me ebooks, it gives me a nice list of Dolciani books. Some have an option to "read" next to them. Most just have the Daisy padlock (and now I know what the Daisy thing is). One book, the geometry book by Jurgenson, has a "borrow" link next to it, and I'm able to check that one out. The others do not have the ebook as a borrow option.

 

I just did this in a roundabout way, and I was able to borrow and look at the geometry book by Jurgensen, but that was the only one that was available when I did a search for "Dolciani". So I don't think it's an issue with my browser.

[dereksurfs]

If I do a search for Dolciani, telling it to only show me ebooks, it gives me a nice list of Dolciani books. Some have an option to "read" next to them. Most just have the Daisy padlock (and now I know what the Daisy thing is). One book, the geometry book by Jurgenson, has a "borrow" link next to it, and I'm able to check that one out. The others do not have the ebook as a borrow option.

 

Ok,

 

Try this Dolciani Algebra search link: http://openlibrary.o...s_fulltext=true

Next you should see 9 Dolciani books with a 'Borrow' icon which you can then checked out. Just click on 'Borrow'. Also notice two are currently checked out.

 

 

 

 

I can checkout and view all of these when not otherwise checked out by others.

[boscopup]

Mine don't have borrow links for most of those books. They just show the Daisy lock.

 

ETA: A screenshot!

 

[dereksurfs]

Mine don't have borrow links for most of those books. They just show the Daisy lock.

 

ETA: A screenshot!

 

Wow, that's crazy! Maybe there is something we're missing or its a technical problem with their website. It may be worth a call or email to them regarding the problem. Why would the same exact search show me all these books to 'Borrow' yet not either of you? Just out of curiosity what browser and OS and you running?

 

Also here is the next page I get to after cliking on the 'Borrow' link. See if you can open this page: http://openlibrary.org/books/OL5844747M/Modern_algebra/borrow

[boscopup]

Wow, that's crazy! Maybe there is something we're missing or its a technical problem with their website. It may be worth a call or email to them regarding the problem. Why would the same exact search show me all these books to 'Borrow' yet not either of you? Just out of curiosity what browser and OS and you running?

 

Also here is the next page I get to after cliking on the 'Borrow' link. See if you can open this page: http://openlibrary.o..._algebra/borrow

 

It says this:

 

 

This book isn't available to borrow.

 

Unless you find yourself literally sitting inside one of the libraries participating in the "In Library" lending program. Look for something else in the lending library?

[boscopup]

Oh, and none of the libraries in my state participate in the library lending program.

[dereksurfs]

It says this:

 

This book isn't available to borrow.

 

Unless you find yourself literally sitting inside one of the libraries participating in the "In Library" lending program. Look for something else in the lending library?

 

Hm, maybe part of it is regional after all. I'll shoot them an email just to see what they say. BTW, I don't think the browser should matter because I was able to pull this up on my son's Nook tablet as well. It would be interesting to hear from other fourm members if they can borrow these additional math books from their locations.

[~Anna~]

Mine don't have borrow links for most of those books. They just show the Daisy lock.

 

ETA: A screenshot!

 

 

Yep, I get the same thing as in this screenshot. I am using Firefox, but like you said, I don't think that's the problem. Very weird.

[texasmama]

Mine don't have borrow links for most of those books. They just show the Daisy lock.

 

ETA: A screenshot!

 

This is what I get, as well. I need a key from the Library of Congress to access the books.

[dereksurfs]

This is what I get, as well. I need a key from the Library of Congress to access the books.

 

You guys can only see the Daisy formatted texts for some reason. These are special editions designed for those with certain reading disabilities. If you have a child with dyslexia for example you may qualify.

 

DAISY is a form of talking book that is mostly used by people with low vision, blindness, and other print disabilities, such as dyslexia. DAISY stands for: Digital Accessible Information SYstem. DAISY formats use synthesized audio synchronized with text. -- http://www.readhowyo...ISY-Format.aspx

 

BTW, I sent Open Library a question about what we discovered regarding this varied access. So hopefully they can shed some light on it. When I hear from them I'll update the thread with any additional information. It is really handy to be able to utilize when selecting textbooks.

[dereksurfs]

Ok, so AoPS Intro to Algebra came in the mail today. Wow, what a textbook! It really covers a lot in its ~ 600 pages! Yet it does so in a very conversational way. It feels much less cut and dry than the other Algebra 1 textbooks we have - Dolciani and Foerster. Yet its nothing like Lials (we have Pre-A) in that there is less clutter and busyness. It really gets to the point in a very concise way. Just the fact that they are able to include Algebra 1 and 2 in a 600 page book speaks to the concise nature of it.

 

My son looked a little nervous when he first saw how big the book was and joked about me torturing him with it. :tongue_smilie: However after dinner he sat down and reviewed over it for quite some time with an intense look on his face. Afterward he mentioned that it was helping him better understand how to work out word problems. So I thought great, maybe he'll end up liking it after all! Oh well, only time will tell. I do think I'll slowly sneak some in on him, like maybe have him work the first chapter while still finishing Pre-Algebra.

[Crimson Wife]

I was over at our virtual charter's lending library today and I looked at their selection of algebra 1 texts. I still was very underwhelmed by the ones titled "California Algebra 1" (Glencoe, McDougal-Littell, CGP) but I did find an interesting looking text. It's Larson's Elementary Algebra 4th Ed. and I gather the 5th ed. is the text used in ChalkDust. I really liked the word problems in the Larson text.

 

Now I'm leaning towards using the word problems in Larson to supplement Singapore DM 8A/B instead of Horizons Algebra 1. I'm waiting on clarification from the charter school whether this combo will be acceptable for their purposes or whether I'd still have to give the end-of-chapter tests for one of the CA Algebra 1 texts. I'm getting sticker shock on the CD videos so I'm probably going to attempt teaching it myself.

[nandmsmom]

Is anyone considering LOF for Algebra and beyond? We just finished Singapore 6 and are working through LOF pre algebra. Wondering if it would be feasible to go all the way though the books, or if they need something more to beef them up.

[Crimson Wife]

Is anyone considering LOF for Algebra and beyond? We just finished Singapore 6 and are working through LOF pre algebra. Wondering if it would be feasible to go all the way though the books, or if they need something more to beef them up.

 

I think this really depends on the student and his/her goals. Personally, I don't think LOF Beginning Algebra is enough by itself for my kids, but YMMV. My oldest is interested in possibly studying computer programming at college, and she will need a rock-solid foundation in math if she decides to pursue a STEM major.

[dereksurfs]

I was over at our virtual charter's lending library today and I looked at their selection of algebra 1 texts. I still was very underwhelmed by the ones titled "California Algebra 1" (Glencoe, McDougal-Littell, CGP) but I did find an interesting looking text. It's Larson's Elementary Algebra 4th Ed. and I gather the 5th ed. is the text used in ChalkDust. I really liked the word problems in the Larson text.

 

Now I'm leaning towards using the word problems in Larson to supplement Singapore DM 8A/B instead of Horizons Algebra 1. I'm waiting on clarification from the charter school whether this combo will be acceptable for their purposes or whether I'd still have to give the end-of-chapter tests for one of the CA Algebra 1 texts. I'm getting sticker shock on the CD videos so I'm probably going to attempt teaching it myself.

 

I may be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that you can buy the CD video lectures by Dan Mosely in a less expensive manner. Here is one thread briefly discussing it:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/262888-cheap-chalkdust-algebra-usersheads-up/

 

It seems while some students enjoy these lectures other kids really don't like them. But that is probably true for most video lectures. So maybe teaching from the book yourself would be the better option. I guess its hard to say unless you were to demo the lessons with your dc.

[Crimson Wife]

The elementary algebra DVD's are super-pricey but I did find this DVD for the combo course. For that cost, it'd be worth it just for my own reference. Thanks for the tip!

[Nakia]

I posted a while back about algebra, but I can't find my post. :/

 

Anna (7th grade) is almost done with Lial's pre-algebra. Math is easy for her, and we both like Lial's. I had planned to go ahead and order Lial's algebra, and then I forgot. I just looked on Amazon, and now I'm confused about which one to order. Ugh.

 

Anyway, I don't know if I'm a fence straddler, but I might be. ;)

[dereksurfs]

For those interested in Jacobs and would like to see a preview its on google books here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=PEBMNI51vMEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22Elementary+Algebra%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=94zOUJajPInMigKT4YDoBg&ved=0CEUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22Elementary%20Algebra%22&f=true

[MyLittleWonders]

I'm still not sure if we'll go into a 2-year Algebra 1 rotation starting in the summer (after SM 6A/B) or PreAlgebra, but to add to the Algebra discussion, dh told me he also has Holt Algebra (student and TE) in his classroom that I can use. I asked him about it and he rather likes it. The explanations are well done and there is plenty of practice problems to choose from/use. So, since he has to go pick up tests that he forgot this break, I asked him to grab that to go along with the Dolciani he brought home Friday. Not that I need more math books to browse. :lol: But, with Dolciani, I'd have to buy the student text as dh only has a TE. But, neither really solves my problem of what to do with 7th grade (I don't see ds11 being ready for Algebra 2 in 8th grade unless some serious brain fog has lifted by then). Just wanted to throw out another text option; dh definitely seems to favor the Holt over the Dolciani (and I plan on picking his brain a bit more when we aren't wrangling the children to help clean the house before Christmas).

[MyLittleWonders]

Is anyone considering LOF for Algebra and beyond? We just finished Singapore 6 and are working through LOF pre algebra. Wondering if it would be feasible to go all the way though the books, or if they need something more to beef them up.

 

We have the LoF books (dh is a math curriculum junkie), but I think at least with ds11, they will be supplemental books. Ds loves the story, so I think I'll have him read a chapter each day and then we'll take a few of the problems and work them together. They (the problems) stretch his mind but can really frustrate him when left on his own. I think the books will make a great supplement to a more traditional math program/text.