Question about Divorce

[Michelle My Bell]

This post is coming from a woman who is unabashedly Christian and happily married to a person who keeps her grounded and out of jail.

 

Look, I know what the Bible says about divorce. I get that. However, I just cannot accept that the God I know would want anyone to remain in a terrible situation. That just does nothing for your walk with Jesus. I lived the first 18 years of my life with "Christian" parents who were physically, verbally, and emotionally abusive. It has taken years for me to even be in a position to start to heal spiritually.

 

Honey, you just do what you have to do to survive. You don't have to put up with crap like you describe. I may have no theological basis, but I honestly feel as though God cries when He sees His children being abused in such a way. What you describe is not even kinda the type of marriage described in the Bible. You deserve so much more. Your kids deserve so much more. Marriage can be such a wonderful, fulfilling thing. Every child of Christ deserves that. Jesus, awesome compassionate soul that he was, didn't put up with crap. You don't have to put up with crap. If your dh is neglecting his Jesus duties, do not feel obligated to over-compensate for him. You have kids! If you are a Christian, you have a responsibility to raise them in Christ. Christ would never abuse His children. That's just not how He rolls.

 

Of course, I will add in the generic saying that you need counseling and all that. Divorce sucks. However, I really don't thing God expects you to live with the suckiness

 

Just one lady's opinion.

 

I know this wasn't directed at me, but thank you for saying this. There are so many people around me who think I have to stay married unless it falls under biblical guidelines that are so narrow I cannot believe are actual guidelines for divorce. Like you said, my God would not desire that for his children. I believe the Biblical words on divorce make it clear that God hates divorce, but I believe the examples given are just that, examples. Not black and white rules.

[Joanne]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but thank you for saying this. There are so many people around me who think I have to stay married unless it falls under biblical guidelines that are so narrow I cannot believe are actual guidelines for divorce. Like you said, my God would not desire that for his children. I believe the Biblical words on divorce make it clear that God hates divorce, but I believe the examples given are just that, examples. Not black and white rules.

 

Yes. Such a narrow, constricting and IMO *un*Biblical definition of married. To me, marriage is a vibrant, organic, engaged relationship that is based on healthy principles (many of them spiritual). It's not a piece of paper (or lack of one).

 

Same with divorce: it is a state of being, not a piece of paper. I was divorced LONG before the judge's clerk stamp 49 pages of legalese.

[Scarlett]

I did that, too, for years. 10+ years in AA and a church going Christian made me very aware of "my part" and to try to act my way into a good marriage. Books like Power of a Praying Wife had me focus on my behavior.

 

I thought if I could just fix me, it would be enough.

 

I also (tried) to enjoy the "other parts" of my life. This was made easier by the fact that he was gone so much with "work" (and wife number 4 :lol::lol:).

 

When he was home, the egg shell walking was awful.

 

I will have to say that I never thought it was my fault. Well, rarely. Sometimes I button pushed but I didn't see that as 'fault' but rather as just foolish. I also did not think I could fix the marriage. I did keep trying, I did my part because well, I wanted to be the kind of person who did the right thing rather than bash him in the head with a frying pan while he slept. ;)

 

There is a lot of talk here about teaching your children the 'wrong thing' by staying. I talked to my ds a lot about how to treat people and I often even told him the way his dad treated me was not right. There is a tipping point where finally it is just too bad to stay and I did get there....

 

As far as staying because of my Christianity...I will have to say that was not the case for me. I could have walked out at any moment of the last 10 years with a perfectly clean conscience. No one in my religion, my faith, my family, my circle of friends was advising me I had to stay married to him.

 

The adultery was the final straw of abuse. It wasn't the ONLY reason I divorced him.

[deacongirl]

IMO, God hates divorce because it is so hard on the people He loves. But he loves the individuals more than the marriage. And sometimes it is the right and brave thing.

[Michelle in AL]

The OP was about the advantages of divorce over staying. The OP was not able to see any advantages.

 

I would suggest if you are in a situation that you feel is hurting you or your children or you are not getting your needs met, than I would highly recommend seeing a counselor.

 

I saw one after my STBXH said he thought he wanted a divorce. My world crashed in. What a counselor helped me to see was what a healthy relationship looked like compared to mine. I had grown up never actually seeing a healthy relationship and therefore truly didn't know what a "normal" fmaily looked like or a healthy relationship. I was surprised to learn that real families actually did things together on weekends, my then husband insisted they didn't and if they did they didn't have any fun.

 

Counseling also helped me to define what I wanted from a relationship.Then I realized I wasn't getting any of it. Small things like doing things together (it could be as simple as making dinner, taking a walk). I wanted someone who could tell me that he loved me 1st, not only in response to when I said it. I wanted someone who could share in the household chores and participate in the family.

 

I work on an cancer floor as a nurse. Everyday I see the good and bad in relationships. I see the couples who are strong and loving, who are there for each other and who take care of each other when needed. I knew if it was me, I wanted my spouse to be there for me, and I knew mine couldn't be to the extent I needed. I'd rather be alone than stuck in a relationship like that.

 

At least now I have the chance to find someone who will really love me and treat me well. That's all anyone deserves.

 

I really recommend counseling if u are contemplating this path. It's a decision that can't be made lightly. A counselor will help you define what is healthy and how to achieve that. They will also be a great support to you.

[FaithManor]

Yes. Such a narrow, constricting and IMO *un*Biblical definition of married. To me, marriage is a vibrant, organic, engaged relationship that is based on healthy principles (many of them spiritual). It's not a piece of paper (or lack of one).

 

Same with divorce: it is a state of being, not a piece of paper. I was divorced LONG before the judge's clerk stamp 49 pages of legalese.

 

 

Preach it Joanne!

 

The Bible gave examples, not the "ten commandments of getting a divorce."

 

Faith

[kroe1]

However I was advised that I should seriously consider getting a divorce. For me I don't see what it would accomplish. I don't see the point. I don't see divorce helping anything. Perhaps though I'm missing something...

 

So from that spot I am asking a genuine sincere question...

 

What does it really accomplish?

 

I understand if it's that once spouse had an affair that they could still be a decent parent but you just couldn't live with them. I also get that sometimes it's one spouse pushing for the divorce.

 

But take a scenario where one parent is angry and over the top all the time. It's possible they could be considered abusive verbally and just generally out of control. In that case does a divorce really do any good?

 

If neither party is going to totally lose rights to see their children what is accomplished? You still have to communicate and your child is still around the other parent so the former spouse still has influence on your life. I don't see what it would accomplish?

 

Obviously if you can prove one spouse is a true danger and keep them from being around you or the child then you've actually accomplished something. I just don't see beyond that what good it really does.

 

Assuming the verbal abuser is the type who is easily angered and says things he regrets, without physical abuse, then you make a good point. If the good parent is still around, he can shelter the kiddos from the verbally abusive one sometimes. When all of a sudden, after a divorce, the verbal abuser has his own unsupervised visitation, then no one is around to shelter the kiddos. Also, that personality type makes life miserable for an ex, such as refusing child support, not bringing the kiddos back on time, not showing up on time, yelling phone calls, etc. The ex also, if female, may have the usual divorce stresses of lower income, loss of housing, etc.

 

If this is your situation, then big :grouphug: to you. It's a no win either way. What is the most helpful, is if the verbal abuser temper tantrum learns he has a problem and then starts counseling, or whatever, to change his response to stress. But trying to get that personality type to even make the first step is almost impossible.

 

Again, big :grouphug:. I pray it will work out for you.

[Saddlemomma]

Okay, I've been in this situation, and I did divorce my husband. (Thankfully I met my soulmate and we've now been married 11 1/2 years with another daughter.)

 

First of all let me say this to Joanne: divorcing the spouse DOES NOT necessarily remove the children from the situation. Each state has their own laws. Divorce fractures a family and causes other potential emotional problems in kids later on down the road. It is not a guarantee that everything is going to get resolved and instantly better.

 

In my case, my husband drank quite a bit, drove drunk, and was high on drugs on several occasions. Despite the drug and alcohol abuse and sleeping with a 19 YO who looked exactly like his 9 YO daughter from behind (he was 46 at the time & the girlfriend extremely petite) I was told by my lawyer that the state I lived in GUARANTEED my husband his parental rights. I could and did obtain full custody, but that was a hollow victory. My ex-husband could see his daughter whenever he wanted as long as it didn't impede my schedule. My only recourse was to stipulate in the divorce that he could not have consumed alcohol or drugs within 24 hours of visitation or during visitation.

 

The 19 YO girlfriend tried to get my daughter to eat bubble-plastic (highly toxic) by stating it was bubble gum. Thankfully my daughter was not stupid. My daughter was extremely resentful and angry with her father and didn't understand the whole dynamics of what was going on. It was a very painful time for all of us despite him being removed from the family.

 

Thankfully, after a year of this foolishness, he came to his senses, cleaned up his act, and eventually got married again.

 

Looking back I realize that we both had our problems. I did give him a second chance at reconciling after finding out about the affair (I was no angel either); but I know that divorce was ultimately the right situation for us. We are both immeasurably more happy, but our daughter bears the scars.

 

Our daughter (now 22) has a fairly good relationship with him and his wife, but she still does not trust him fully. She worries constantly that he will do the same thing with his current wife at some point. She also has confidence and relationship issues of her own which have developed as a result of our divorce. By the way, these issues did not appear until shortly after she turned 20. It took a long time for them to manifest, and then they erupted out of nowhere. I had been waiting for it to happen and was surprised it took so long.

 

My advice would be to not act rashly, seek help through counseling and do whatever you can to find the root cause of the problem then treat it. Divorce is not easy and not final -- you live with the consequences forever whether through your memories or your children's emotional development. Above all else--pray! I was not a Christian during the time we went through this. Maybe the outcome would have been different; I don't know. What I do know is that since that time I have been blessed richly with a husband who shares my heart and mind fully. Love is a beautiful thing when it's shared as it's meant to be.

 

May God bless you and show you the right path for you and your family.

[Denisemomof4]

I really want to share my friend's story but feel I put too much personal information here so I'm deleting it.

 

I am agreeing that staying often times does more harm than good. Nobody should watch their mother be verbally, emotionally and (likely) physically abused. Smetimes women are stuck due to finances, and sometimes they believe it is the "christian" thing t do. :glare:

Edited October 22, 2012 by Denisemomof4

[Scarlett]

Assuming the verbal abuser is the type who is easily angered and says things he regrets, without physical abuse, then you make a good point. If the good parent is still around, he can shelter the kiddos from the verbally abusive one sometimes. When all of a sudden, after a divorce, the verbal abuser has his own unsupervised visitation, then no one is around to shelter the kiddos. Also, that personality type makes life miserable for an ex, such as refusing child support, not bringing the kiddos back on time, not showing up on time, yelling phone calls, etc. The ex also, if female, may have the usual divorce stresses of lower income, loss of housing, etc.

 

If this is your situation, then big :grouphug: to you. It's a no win either way. What is the most helpful, is if the verbal abuser temper tantrum learns he has a problem and then starts counseling, or whatever, to change his response to stress. But trying to get that personality type to even make the first step is almost impossible.

 

Again, big :grouphug:. I pray it will work out for you.

 

 

This was my situation and I did eventually divorce, but I put up with a lot because I couldn't see the benefit of divorce. And just like you say, I still have to deal with him and I have the added worry of my maturing ds12 being with his dad for visitation....and the sickening feeling of my son being around the girlfriend who was party to the divorce.

 

It is a no win situation....I gave my XH every opportunity to change and he just refused. Divorce has been final for 3 years and I'm remarried to a wonderful man for 2 and even now my XH gets a shocked looked on his face like a deer in the headlights that I actually divorced him and moved on.

[Catwoman]

I just wanted to say that I think it is wonderful and courageous of so many of you to have shared your personal stories on this thread. I am truly awed by the way you have managed to escape terrible circumstances and start new lives for yourselves and your kids.

 

I hope your experiences will help the OP realize that there can be a light at the end of the tunnel if she's willing to work for it. I pray that she will be able to value herself enough to know that she deserves a whole lot better than she's getting right now and that she's able to find happiness.

[Joanne]

First of all let me say this to Joanne: divorcing the spouse DOES NOT necessarily remove the children from the situation. Each state has their own laws. Divorce fractures a family and causes other potential emotional problems in kids later on down the road. It is not a guarantee that everything is going to get resolved and instantly better.

 

 

:confused: WTH? I would prefer you read my posts on the topic before responding to me. Thank you.

[Joanne]

It is a no win situation.....

 

:iagree: Staying in abuse vs. leaving is no win. It's making a choice between 2 bad ones.

[Denisemomof4]

Joanne, if you had a chance to read my post before I deleted it, can you pease PM me if you have suggestions of anything I can do to help my friend?

[Joanne]

Joanne, if you had a chance to read my post before I deleted it, can you pease PM me if you have suggestions of anything I can do to help my friend?

 

I'm sorry, I did not read the post but I'd happily answer a PM. :)

[Saddlemomma]

I'm sorry I misinterpreted the first few words of your post Joanne. No disrespect intended.

[Kaleidoscope]

I just want to thank everyone for sharing your experiences and stories. That goes for everyone who posted on this thread and those who sent pms. It's helped give me more balanced perspective.

 

I won't be doing anything anytime soon.

[Joanne]

I just want to thank everyone for sharing your experiences and stories. That goes for everyone who posted on this thread and those who sent pms. It's helped give me more balanced perspective.

 

I won't be doing anything anytime soon.

 

While you wait, educate and protect yourself. Read the books I suggested upthread. Start a documentation trail. Make copies of all important info (birth certificates, ss cards, marriage licenses). Make sure you've taken the kids as needed or regularly to the doctor. Have official professionals in your life which can include Pastors but should include people outside the church also. Make mental note of what he says to you about you, your past, your parenting. If when you separate and divorce he chooses to continue to abuse you through the court system, he will use those things in the process (in other words, he's giving you hints now.)

 

Finally, you are worth "it". You are worth protecting. You deserve a healthy, whole, relationship. Or, at least, not having an abusive one.

 

Please remember that in abuse, there is not a 50/50 division of wrong. There is not "he is abusive but I am also a human with sin." Abuse stands alone - you don't have a role in abuse. The standards and interventions for a non abusive marriage don't apply in abuse. Please don't seek couples counseling.

 

Build a healthy support - you'll need it no matter what.

[OnTheBrink]

I divorced my EX because he's abusive, controlling, manipulative, an adulterer, homosexual, deceitful, NPD and bi-polar. He threatened my life in graphic, gory ways in front of my children. He took complete control of the finances and would not allow me more than $10 a week (and that was after the pastor INSISTED he give me money I didn't have to account for). He alienated me from my family and friends. He spent money put aside for my cancer treatment on dates with other men. He participated in orgies and speed dating while we were married. He informed me that because I'm ugly, stupid and unemployed, I'll never have custody of my kids and that'll he'd take them from me and throw me out. He admitted that he intentionally hid his sexual preferences and temper from me until we were married because he figured I'd then stuck.

 

Well. After 8 years of that BS, and 7 of those years in counseling (both with pastors and secular therapists), I gathered all the emails, porn sites, fetish sites he was a member of (and had posted his picture at!) and found an attorney. I had grounds based on mental cruelty and I filed for divorce and I got a restraining order against him. Once he figured out I had limits and COULD fight back, he backed down significantly, but I pursued the divorce. Once he realized that all the evidence I had on him would be public record if we went to trial, he acquiesced to my requests. I now have full custody of dd; we have joint custody in the area of her education, but I have it in all other areas of her life.

 

EX and I "get along" relatively well now, but it's all surface. If we didn't have dd between us, I'd have never seen him again. Because he now knows not to mess with me, he maintains relatively decent behavior. He knows I have legal resources and he knows my church completely supports me. He knows he can't alienate me or control my finances any longer so he's not exactly in the same position of power he once had.

 

So, you want to know what difference it makes to divorce? I'm removed from a very bad situation. I have my own power and control back. I have my own home, my own car, my own job. My dd is no longer in a home where it's the norm to abuse mom, and she knows yelling, manipulating, and exerting control over another person is not normal and it's not healthy. She got to see God protect us, sometimes in supernatural ways. She got to see her church family support us, provide for us in some cases, and protect us. Staying married would have perpetuated a cycle of abuse that I was not willing to see her repeat, or my son to repeat.

 

I'm real again, and whole again, and am incredibly thankful to God and my church for getting me the heck outta there.

[Kaleidoscope]

Thanks. I will take your suggestions to heart. Most of that is easy enough to do and some I've already done. I'll work on getting the rest done. "Official Professionals" will be the hardest to figure out.

 

I can't have my children alone with home. It's just not an option.