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I gave ds his assignment list today and he went nuts. He thinks that I am giving him too much work. I think I have always gone a little too easy on him and this is still a light load compared to some of the boxed curricula that I have looked at, namely HOD. He is a 13yo 7th grader.

 

Mom reads aloud during and after breakfast:

Three Bible verses and we discuss

Commentary from TruthQuest guide

Two chapters from Charlotte's Web (alternate between easy read alouds and more challenging since I have kids of various ages)

 

Ds does independently, of course I am available if he needs help:

Horizons Pre Algebra, one lesson after we work through new concept

Life of Fred Fractions, one chapter with your turn to play, easy for him

Essentials in Writing, one page

All In One English Masterbook, one page

Science, The Rainbow, read one section and take notes

Label half a US map with state abbreviations

Ind. Bible time: Preparing for Adolescence 8 pages

Copy one verse and study for memory

Study one short dictation for spelling, then come to mom for dictation

Literature: Read for 20 minutes from assigned book

History: Read one chapter of CHOW that supports our TQ commentary from morning reading, write one paragraph narration

Book Basket: 15 minutes

 

Then we do Getting Started With Spanish, one lesson, together orally.

 

It does look like a lot when I type it all out, but I really don't think I am expecting too much. If he would just get busy he could be done in less than four hours.

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I gave ds his assignment list today and he went nuts. He thinks that I am giving him too much work. I think I have always gone a little too easy on him and this is still a light load compared to some of the boxed curricula that I have looked at, namely HOD. He is a 13yo 7th grader.

 

Mom reads aloud during and after breakfast:

Three Bible verses and we discuss

Commentary from TruthQuest guide

Two chapters from Charlotte's Web (alternate between easy read alouds and more challenging since I have kids of various ages)

 

Ds does independently, of course I am available if he needs help:

Horizons Pre Algebra, one lesson after we work through new concept

Life of Fred Fractions, one chapter with your turn to play, easy for him

Essentials in Writing, one page

All In One English Masterbook, one page

Science, The Rainbow, read one section and take notes

Label half a US map with state abbreviations

Ind. Bible time: Preparing for Adolescence 8 pages

Copy one verse and study for memory

Study one short dictation for spelling, then come to mom for dictation

Literature: Read for 20 minutes from assigned book

History: Read one chapter of CHOW that supports our TQ commentary from morning reading, write one paragraph narration

Book Basket: 15 minutes

 

Then we do Getting Started With Spanish, one lesson, together orally.

 

It does look like a lot when I type it all out, but I really don't think I am expecting too much. If he would just get busy he could be done in less than four hours.

Well, it isn't, but seeing that huge printed list, it does look like it is.

 

Why don't you break it down into smaller sections, like before lunch and after lunch.

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Well, it isn't, but seeing that huge printed list, it does look like it is.

 

:iagree: Is that the list you give him? If so, maybe you could just format it differently? Maybe by subject? It's less than my newly 12 year old 7th graders are doing daily.

 

I used to tell my boys last year that, although it's counter-intuitive, if they have time to complain, they don't have enough to do. If they had too much to do, they'd be working furiously to get it done and it wouldn't even occur to them to go on and on talking about it. And it's true. They have lots to do this year, and I don't hear ANY complaining. :)

 

ETA: Here's another random thought.... My boys would complain way more about a teensy task I ask them to do than they do about these truly huge assignments they get from their online Omni class. I think it's bec. they get no traction complaining about an online class assignment.... The rest of the class is doing it. I can't get them out of it, so there's no point in even starting to complain. But, unfortunately, they do sometimes whine enough about an assignment I give them that I let them out of it. Not good, I know, and it only perpetuates and augments the whining problem, but I have to admit it's true.

Edited by yvonne
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I think it's an adequate amount of work, but there isn't much interaction built in. Maybe it'd seem less overwhelming if you didn't give him the assignments all at once, but did some with him. Perhaps you could meet after a few subjects and discuss? For example, the math you do--I like the teaching and then "you go do this part by yourself and then I'll check it" kind of way. So you could do math, then maybe do the history, but have him discuss it with you before writing his narration. Then do English, maybe together.

 

Some rhythm to his day, with some independent work coupled with check-ins during the day, may help him feel less overwhelmed.

 

It's what I did with my high schooler.

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that list would have overwhelmed my son, but....only you know your child.

 

A few things to keep in mind. How is your son's reading speed? That could be a lot to read and actually digest.

 

Also, it's a lot of shifting gears. At that age my ds's ability to change subjects quickly was not good. To go from two different maths to writing would have been too much. There is a lot of brain development (not that I am qualified to speak on that) and brain fog at the that age is a very real thing. Puberty, sleeping habits, growth spurts can play in to productivity. 7th grade was an especially hard year for us in those areas. Lots of being hungry and can't concentrate and lots of extra sleep needed.

 

I got into a habit of scheduling harder subjects at his prime working time, and rotating between harder and easier subjects.

 

I also agree about the interaction. You have a lot of written output, but is he absorbing the information, is he engaged with the material, or does it seem like busy work to him?

 

If he is working independently, I would probably sit with him and dig into why HE feels it's overwhelming.

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I am starting to have my 7th grader think in terms of traditional classes, which are about 5 to 6 hours per week. So I sorted your son's work:

 

Math (1.5 hours)

Horizons Pre Algebra, one lesson after we work through new concept

Life of Fred Fractions, one chapter with your turn to play, easy for him

 

English (1.5 hours)

Essentials in Writing, one page

All In One English Masterbook, one page

Study one short dictation for spelling, then come to mom for dictation

Literature: Read for 20 minutes from assigned book

 

Science (1 hour)

The Rainbow, read one section and take notes

 

History (1hour)

Label half a US map with state abbreviations

Read one chapter of CHOW that supports our TQ commentary from morning reading, write one paragraph narration

Book Basket: 15 minutes

 

Bible (30 min)

Ind. Bible time: Preparing for Adolescence 8 pages

Copy one verse and study for memory

 

Spanish (30 min)

one lesson, together orally.

 

6 hours total is my guess. 30 hours/week is acceptable for a 7th grader in my book. But what I did notice is that you have lots of little things from different places for each subject. That approach made my son feel that there was more to do than there really was because he does not transition well between tasks. So, I have simplified his independent work, and really have only 1 text for each subject and 1 assignment for each time block.

 

I also think you can start to give your son some input into what he wants to study. Does he like his classes? Is there something he would rather study? Does he want to sort the time out differently?

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited by lewelma
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Last year I moved more to weekly assignments. Instead of giving page numbers for a science book I'd give a chapter. Instead of chapter for a lit book I'd just assign the book or maybe first half and second half the next week.

 

They had to report daily on what they'd done. Some subjects they would do all at once in a big chunk. Others would be spread across the week. German for example seemed better done daily.

 

I agree that your list doesn't sound like too much. But it also sounded a little chopped. Maybe he wants something more substantial not less. Have you ever asked him to write up a schedule?

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We are just now moving into a more structured schedule, and I am going to go with more of the weekly planning framework also. I'm going to try using a planner with him, and together we can plan out the week and itemize what he wants and needs to get done.

 

If you have a lot of smaller items, have you thought about using something like workboxes? Even for an older child it might make it easier for him to visualize what he's done and he still has to do. Or even just folders on a shelf with the items in it?

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I think your list is fine. It's comparable to my ds' list. He is in sixth grade. On a Wednesday he will do the following:

 

Bible--Q&A Bible study. We discuss in depth once a week. Youth Group on Wed evening also.

 

Language Arts:

--One lesson from Rod and Staff grammar. Sometimes two if it's really easy.

--Read 20 pages from novel (currently Tom Sawyer) and do a couple workbook pages (Lightning Lit).

--Spelling: One day for workbook, one day for writing words 3x, one day to test

--Writing: Four days per week, rotating through WWE

 

History/Geography:

--Watch CNN Student News and answer questions assigned by co-op teacher

--This semester ds is researching a country, so he does a little each day. Later this semester (towards Christmas) he will switch to daily assignments from SOTW4.

 

Math:

--30 problems per day

--10 minutes' drill in math facts per day

 

Science:

--Read and answer questions, takes roughly 30 minutes TWTh, class on Fri

 

Spanish:

--Class 3x per week

--Homework 3-4 days per week, roughly 20 minutes at a stretch

 

Music:

--Practice guitar one hour

 

American Sign Language:

--15 minutes per day computer course

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But what I did notice is that you have lots of little things from different places for each subject. That approach made my son feel that there was more to do than there really was because he does not transition well between tasks. So, I have simplified his independent work, and really have only 1 text for each subject and 1 assignment for each time block.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

This has been our experience. We came from HoD, which as you know, has many bits of skill assignments spread throughout the day. This year for skill subjects I have selected thorough programs and isolated them to just one block. It has made a big difference in my DS's attitude about school. He seems much more motivated to get his work done. I think Ruth is right and boys have a harder time switching gears.

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Why don't you break it down into smaller sections, like before lunch and after lunch.

Honestly, if he would get busy he could get it all done before lunch.

:iagree: Is that the list you give him? If so, maybe you could just format it differently? Maybe by subject? It's less than my newly 12 year old 7th graders are doing daily.

 

I used to tell my boys last year that, although it's counter-intuitive, if they have time to complain, they don't have enough to do. If they had too much to do, they'd be working furiously to get it done and it wouldn't even occur to them to go on and on talking about it. And it's true. They have lots to do this year, and I don't hear ANY complaining. :)

 

ETA: Here's another random thought.... My boys would complain way more about a teensy task I ask them to do than they do about these truly huge assignments they get from their online Omni class. I think it's bec. they get no traction complaining about an online class assignment.... The rest of the class is doing it. I can't get them out of it, so there's no point in even starting to complain. But, unfortunately, they do sometimes whine enough about an assignment I give them that I let them out of it. Not good, I know, and it only perpetuates and augments the whining problem, but I have to admit it's true.

I actually had tried a new planner sheet that had each subject having a box and within the box was the list of assignments for the week. He was free to adapt by doubling up on one subject one day, then another the next. I think having everything on one page for the week is what freaked him out. Although his biggest complaint was that I had him reading for history and doing book basket. He thinks that he should be able to just read one thing for history and then his free reading. If he were reading quality literature for free reading I would agree.

 

And, I was thinking of going to HOD so that the guide gives him his plan, not mom.

 

I think it's an adequate amount of work, but there isn't much interaction built in. Maybe it'd seem less overwhelming if you didn't give him the assignments all at once, but did some with him. Perhaps you could meet after a few subjects and discuss? For example, the math you do--I like the teaching and then "you go do this part by yourself and then I'll check it" kind of way. So you could do math, then maybe do the history, but have him discuss it with you before writing his narration. Then do English, maybe together.

 

Some rhythm to his day, with some independent work coupled with check-ins during the day, may help him feel less overwhelmed.

 

It's what I did with my high schooler.

We have always knocked out independent work, then mom-led work. It seemed to work for him in the past, but perhaps he does need some interaction along the way now that his work load is picking up.

 

A few things to keep in mind. How is your son's reading speed? That could be a lot to read and actually digest.

 

Also, it's a lot of shifting gears. At that age my ds's ability to change subjects quickly was not good. To go from two different maths to writing would have been too much. There is a lot of brain development (not that I am qualified to speak on that) and brain fog at the that age is a very real thing. Puberty, sleeping habits, growth spurts can play in to productivity. 7th grade was an especially hard year for us in those areas. Lots of being hungry and can't concentrate and lots of extra sleep needed.

 

 

If he is working independently, I would probably sit with him and dig into why HE feels it's overwhelming.

He reads very well though he tends to skim. He is having a hard time concentrating and is ALWAYS in the fridge. Drives me batty! If he would just stay focused then he could finishing fairly quickly. But, I agree, he has a hard time switching gears.

 

As for written work, I don't feel that he has that much compared to other curricula that I have viewed...namely HOD. And, this kid sees ALL schoolwork as busy work! Nothing interests him and it is all just something to get through so that he can move on.

 

He doesn't like any school. I have asked him what he wants to study...nothing. He is free to sort his time anyway he pleases. As I said in response above, I gave him a list for the week, but broken into daily chunks for each subject. He was free to work it out as he pleased except for math and writing which need to be done daily. I think seeing everything laid out for the week was overwhelming for him. I may try that again later.

 

Is he doing a ton of handwriting? Would he respond better if he typed some or all of the handwritten work?

He is free to type anything he pleases and does sometimes.

 

Last year I moved more to weekly assignments. Instead of giving page numbers for a science book I'd give a chapter. Instead of chapter for a lit book I'd just assign the book or maybe first half and second half the next week.

 

They had to report daily on what they'd done. Some subjects they would do all at once in a big chunk. Others would be spread across the week. German for example seemed better done daily.

 

I agree that your list doesn't sound like too much. But it also sounded a little chopped. Maybe he wants something more substantial not less. Have you ever asked him to write up a schedule?

This was what I was trying by writing up a schedule for the week, but with subjects broken into daily-sized chunks. We went through it and I explained that math and writing were the only two subjects that needed to be done daily. Everything else was up to him how to work it out. And, I just listed a book for literature with the requirement that it be completed by Sunday night.

 

 

This has been our experience. We came from HoD, which as you know, has many bits of skill assignments spread throughout the day. This year for skill subjects I have selected thorough programs and isolated them to just one block. It has made a big difference in my DS's attitude about school. He seems much more motivated to get his work done. I think Ruth is right and boys have a harder time switching gears.

 

HOD is actually what has been calling me since we started TQ this year. I have another thread about how we have always used SL, MFW, HOD, etc. and I am missing the schedule. HOD is really drawing me and I told him that I was considering ordering it after his outburst yesterday so that he could see what is really expected of a 7th grader; not just what he sees as mom piling work on him. I love the books and the fact that everything is mapped out for me. But, I really felt led to pull things together myself this year....you know, make it ours. When I told him my thoughts, he begged me not to because HOD stressed him out in the past. I think you hit the nail on the head with your reason. While I love the book choices the open and go aspect, he and I get frustrated with the jumble of little boxes on the page and the constant change of task. MFW was getting to be the same. It felt like we read a pile of books each day when I would prefer to just read one that covers it well.

 

Hmmmm.....the wheels are turning. I miss those schedules from the other curricula we have used in the past, but I am starting to see that we need a different way. I am going to sit down this weekend and work out a better plan. Perhaps two days of science and two of history (we school four days). Do all science reading, notes, and questions one day with the questions done orally perhaps if his notes were done well. Then lab on the other. Then break up history reading over two days with any mapping or narrations done on the second day. Then I can do away with book basket, which seems to make him think he has such a heavy reading load and just do one literature book at a time, alternating between his choice(from a stack of mom-approved choices) and my choice, but have him read longer chunks per day so that we get through them quicker since he is only reading one at a time.

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Just wanted to add that I am sooooo brainstorming right now. I like the idea of longer stretches of fewer things per day. I think this will really help ds. I wish I could take the HOD guide and rewrite it for us in this manner. I think I am afraid that I will miss some skills if I do it on my own and I like the HOD book choices. I do love the idea of TQ and I am going to try to make this work for this year, but I would love it if anyone knows of a curriculum that schedules it all out for me in this manner for next year.

 

I think that is what ds hates about HOD and MFW, a little of this and a little of that each day. I was just showing him the HOD samples and I pulled out my MFW guide. His response was that there were three different history boxes for the day (history reading, independent history, state study) then two for science (reading with lesson and inventor study), then music, then Bible, then math, copywork from a speech, etc. Too much changing gears is definitely a problem for him.

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To give you a feel for a daily schedule with few transitions:

 

Daily work with general times (not strict). First 3 are done independently

 

Math (1.5 hours) do the next section in AoPS

English (1 hour) do the next section in WWS

Science (1 hour) alternate days reading or outlining the next section

"Mother time" (1 hour) work with me on whatever I think needs to be worked on (more writing, note taking skills, history time line, editing report, looking up youtube science demos, science experiments etc.)

 

Done at night:

Violin (40 min) practice following list from tutor

Mandarin (20 min) drill following list from tutor

History (45 min) read alouds with father

Literature (1 hour) in bed

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited by lewelma
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Honestly, if he would get busy he could get it all done before lunch.

 

I actually had tried a new planner sheet that had each subject having a box and within the box was the list of assignments for the week. He was free to adapt by doubling up on one subject one day, then another the next. I think having everything on one page for the week is what freaked him out. Although his biggest complaint was that I had him reading for history and doing book basket. He thinks that he should be able to just read one thing for history and then his free reading. If he were reading quality literature for free reading I would agree.

 

And, I was thinking of going to HOD so that the guide gives him his plan, not mom.

 

 

We have always knocked out independent work, then mom-led work. It seemed to work for him in the past, but perhaps he does need some interaction along the way now that his work load is picking up.

 

 

He reads very well though he tends to skim. He is having a hard time concentrating and is ALWAYS in the fridge. Drives me batty! If he would just stay focused then he could finishing fairly quickly. But, I agree, he has a hard time switching gears.

 

As for written work, I don't feel that he has that much compared to other curricula that I have viewed...namely HOD. And, this kid sees ALL schoolwork as busy work! Nothing interests him and it is all just something to get through so that he can move on.

 

He doesn't like any school. I have asked him what he wants to study...nothing. He is free to sort his time anyway he pleases. As I said in response above, I gave him a list for the week, but broken into daily chunks for each subject. He was free to work it out as he pleased except for math and writing which need to be done daily. I think seeing everything laid out for the week was overwhelming for him. I may try that again later.

 

 

He is free to type anything he pleases and does sometimes.

 

 

This was what I was trying by writing up a schedule for the week, but with subjects broken into daily-sized chunks. We went through it and I explained that math and writing were the only two subjects that needed to be done daily. Everything else was up to him how to work it out. And, I just listed a book for literature with the requirement that it be completed by Sunday night.

 

 

 

 

HOD is actually what has been calling me since we started TQ this year. I have another thread about how we have always used SL, MFW, HOD, etc. and I am missing the schedule. HOD is really drawing me and I told him that I was considering ordering it after his outburst yesterday so that he could see what is really expected of a 7th grader; not just what he sees as mom piling work on him. I love the books and the fact that everything is mapped out for me. But, I really felt led to pull things together myself this year....you know, make it ours. When I told him my thoughts, he begged me not to because HOD stressed him out in the past. I think you hit the nail on the head with your reason. While I love the book choices the open and go aspect, he and I get frustrated with the jumble of little boxes on the page and the constant change of task. MFW was getting to be the same. It felt like we read a pile of books each day when I would prefer to just read one that covers it well.

 

Hmmmm.....the wheels are turning. I miss those schedules from the other curricula we have used in the past, but I am starting to see that we need a different way. I am going to sit down this weekend and work out a better plan. Perhaps two days of science and two of history (we school four days). Do all science reading, notes, and questions one day with the questions done orally perhaps if his notes were done well. Then lab on the other. Then break up history reading over two days with any mapping or narrations done on the second day. Then I can do away with book basket, which seems to make him think he has such a heavy reading load and just do one literature book at a time, alternating between his choice(from a stack of mom-approved choices) and my choice, but have him read longer chunks per day so that we get through them quicker since he is only reading one at a time.

 

I write this knowing it may lead to a nomination for worst mom of hte year. But sometimes what I need to do is to let my kid fail and deal with the consequences for a bit.

 

My eldest is in 9th grade. He has a tendency to waste time with electronics or with drawing or fun reading. Last weekend, he spent most of the weekend inside catching up on last week's schoolwork. I predict that this will happend again (and more than just once). Eventually he'll get the idea that doing his work carefully and diligently when assigned gets him more of what he wants.

 

Every kid is different, so there's not much point to specifically comparing what my kids did with what your kid is complaining about. But as long as you take into account his abilities, I don't think you are necessarily out of line to say: "This is what I expect for a level of work in your grade. When you get it done with good effort, then you may read or do what you like. But if your work is slow or slapdash, you won't have free time; because you'll still be doing school."

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It's really not much. What if you gave him an external motivation for finishing by lunchtime (if you think that's a reasonable goal for him -- and I think it is) for a couple of specific days. If he finishes by X he gets to do Y. Then you turn around and act all amazed, "Wow! You were really able to focus and get through all of that so quickly! It must be a relief to know that you can finish by lunchtime if you really want to."

 

Or sit with him and write some times down next to each assignment. While there are a lot of little things to do, many of them that I saw should be in the 15-20 minute range, no more. Maybe if he sees what a reasonable progression through the day would be, and where *he* is costing himself time each day, perhaps that would be helpful.

 

But I think you're right -- his current schedule is pretty light and there's no reason why he should be giving you a hard time about it.

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One more thought... Some of these materials I'm not familiar with... But a few on your list seem awfully young for a 13yo. Is it possible that he needs to be *more* challenged? Give him work that requires more thought, more depth, more focus from him and cut out some of the "busywork" that's geared for younger children?

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I agree with abbeyej about putting times next to each item. If he sees how much time you're expecting each thing to take, he may relax and realize its not that much. It seems totally appropriate for 7th grade.

 

My ds12 is in 7th this year, too. This is the first year I've given him a task list to follow, and it has twelve blocks on it. When he first saw it, he kind of panicked until I pointed out the times. When he realized that three or four things could be done per hour, he calmed down a bit. I also explained to him that it was similar to what we had done before, except I was the only one who could see the list then.

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HOD stressed him out in the past. I think you hit the nail on the head with your reason. While I love the book choices the open and go aspect, he and I get frustrated with the jumble of little boxes on the page and the constant change of task. MFW was getting to be the same. It felt like we read a pile of books each day when I would prefer to just read one that covers it well.

 

Hmmmm.....the wheels are turning. I miss those schedules from the other curricula we have used in the past, but I am starting to see that we need a different way. I am going to sit down this weekend and work out a better plan. Perhaps two days of science and two of history (we school four days). Do all science reading, notes, and questions one day with the questions done orally perhaps if his notes were done well. Then lab on the other. Then break up history reading over two days with any mapping or narrations done on the second day. Then I can do away with book basket, which seems to make him think he has such a heavy reading load and just do one literature book at a time, alternating between his choice(from a stack of mom-approved choices) and my choice, but have him read longer chunks per day so that we get through them quicker since he is only reading one at a time.

 

I think you have some good ideas. They are similar to what we are doing. We have history two days a week and science two days a week. I also like HoD's book choices and those are what I am using for history and science, but no schedule and no notebooking.

 

There are many things I like about Charlotte Mason schooling, but as my student gets older, I am finding (at least for us) that it is better suited for younger students. The little bits from various books, the frequent hands-on stuff, the notebooking, the constant copywork and dictation. . . were starting to feel a little bit like time-wasters that left little energy and focus for important subjects like math, writing, and science. And as we went up in levels our days were getting fuller and fuller! We weren't spending an inordinate amount of time on school, but the constant gear-shifting was exhausting. It was great for a 3rd grader, not so great for middle school.

 

I love CM language art skills for younger students, but at some point I think you need to move on to real writing. I felt it was time for us and the copywork, dictation, and narrations had done their job and laid a great foundation. Letting go of those things and getting into a single, good writing program has simplified our schoolday and our focus.

 

I found this simple schedule inspiring.

 

If you want pre-packaged, have you looked at Timberdoodle's packages? They seem straightforward and fairly popular.

Edited by birchbark
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