For a logical, step-by-step, orderly thinker...which Pre-A?

[Halcyon]

He is mathy. He is 10 and will be ready for Pre-a in Jan.

 

I own Lials, Dolciani, AoPS and MM6b (he will finish 6a by December).

 

He has no problem "following" a high school text, nor with writing on separate paper (ie. non workbook is fine).

 

Mastery is better for him, and he doesnt need a lot of repetition to remember concepts. He is good at word problems, but not GREAT.

 

Thoughts?

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Is he willing to struggle with new concepts before they are explained? Is he comfortable in unknown territory without someone leading him step-by-step? Is he willing to take risks and make mistakes?

 

AoPS Pre-Algebra. It's not just math--it's an adventure. ;):001_wub:

[EKS]

Lial is very linear. I was impressed with how coherent the presentation was.

[Halcyon]

Is he willing to struggle with new concepts before they are explained? I dont know. He hasnt been exposed to that very much. Suppose CWP presents that, and he does find the challenging problems to be just that. He sometimes needs me to "point the way" and then he can take over once he sees a dirction. Maybe i will have him " sit " with the problems for longer. Is it enough that he is willing to sit and struggle ( which i think he is) or would he eventually have to figure most problems out to be a fit for Aops!because he WILL sit. And he WILL come up with ideas. They're just not alwys Correct :glare:Is he comfortable in unknown territory without someone leading him step-by-step? I am not sure.Is he willing to take risks and make mistakes?Mistakes he can handle and he is willing to revisit and rework problems he doesnt get in first pass.

 

AoPS Pre-Algebra. It's not just math--it's an adventure. ;):001_wub:

 

thanks. I answered above in color. To be honest, almost everything he has learned thus far as been straightforward. CWP is the only time he "works" at the problems. The challenging ones in the book are hard for him, i wont lie. Theyre hard for ME! :tongue_smilie: i dont know how normal that is, or whether he should find them easy to be a fit for Aops, kwim? I have little basis for comparison.

[Halcyon]

Lial is very linear. I was impressed with how coherent the presentation was.

 

I thought so too. Dolciani reminded me of a math version of Henle:solid, somewhat dull, challenging, gets the job done, sequential, bite-size.

[Ray]

We are still plugging away with the Nurk/Telgmaa text (1yr come Nov?), also throwing up link to a Singapore series, like the lay out.

http://www.perpendicularpress.com/math6.html

http://www.singaporemath.com/Discovering_Mathematics_s/219.htm

[dereksurfs]

Hi Halcyon,

 

I have a suggestion especially since you already have the AoPS Pre-A book. How about a little experiment? Have him start work on the first few chapters lets say just on Fridays. Then observe how he does with it. That is what we are doing with ds11 in MUS Pre-A while finishes MUS Zeta. He's already on chapter 5 of his new book Pre-A book.:tongue_smilie: At this rate I plan to add in a secondary Pre-A source such as Derek Owens or Kinetic Books once he finishes Zeta. I think this gives him a good sense of what's coming next. Plus he enjoys the extra challenge.

Edited August 28, 2012 by dereksurfs

[wapiti]

With your kiddo, I might experiment by trying out AoPS PreA. See if you can get through the first few chapters. No rush - go slow - however many problems he has the patience for in a sitting. If it's out of the question, you'll probably know in ch 2, in which case I'd fall back to Dolciani.

 

(FWIW, dd hit some speed bumps in ch 5. We'll see what happens with ds9; he's a surprisingly different student from dd, and I'm hoping for an easier ride in spite of the obvious youth issue.)

[Carrie12345]

I know it's not on your list, but my Aspie (logical, rule-based, quick learner) kid did fabulous with Saxon 1/2 at age 10/11. Because he had finished Alg 1 and part of Geometry before transferring to ps in 8th grade, he kind of had a year "off" from math (they didn't have a class to suit him.) Even still, he tested in the top 3% on his high school placement test.

The info definitely stuck with him through some big upheavals.

[Halcyon]

Thanks for all the advice! I will give AOPS a try once a week and see what happens.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Thanks for all the advice! I will give AOPS a try once a week and see what happens.

 

Hmm....I'm not sure AoPS once a week will give you a good indication of fit.

I think it makes a better marinade than dipping sauce. ;)

 

I'm sure it depends on the child, but in some cases a 2 or 3 week trial run with AoPS might work better than once a week for several weeks.

 

BTW, I agree that AoPS is worth a try with your son.

[dereksurfs]

Hmm....I'm not sure AoPS once a week will give you a good indication of fit.

I think it makes a better marinade than dipping sauce. ;)

 

I'm sure it depends on the child, but in some cases a 2 or 3 week trial run with AoPS might work better than once a week for several weeks.

 

BTW, I agree that AoPS is worth a try with your son.

 

Hahaa, that made for a good laugh to start the morning out. Did you perhaps write this while perparing a meal? :D That is more of a total immersion or baptism by fire approach. Maybe that works best for AoPS. I couldn't really say. But the gradual introduction of new material spread out over time has worked well for us - sprinkling vs. marinade. It gives new concepts a chance to percolate in the brain. :)

[Halcyon]

Just for the heck of it, we spent an hour on AoPS today, and DS loved it. He immediately seemed to "get" the approach, which surprised me. We had tried AoPS last year, but he wasn't mature enough to tackle the problems; amazing what a difference a year makes.

 

Still not sure what this means in terms of how we will incorporate it, but it's interesting to see what pleasure he got out it. Definitely different than Math Mammoth!!!

[dereksurfs]

Just for the heck of it, we spent an hour on AoPS today, and DS loved it. He immediately seemed to "get" the approach, which surprised me. We had tried AoPS last year, but he wasn't mature enough to tackle the problems; amazing what a difference a year makes.

 

Still not sure what this means in terms of how we will incorporate it, but it's interesting to see what pleasure he got out it. Definitely different than Math Mammoth!!!

 

Halcyon, that is great to hear! I know you have been thinking about this for quite some time now. And yes, the young brain develops so quickly its amazing what a year can do. Now that you gave him another taste and he seemed to enjoy it, you have a bit better sense this might work for him. It also may be something he enjoys as a regular supplimental brain challenge as he completes MM. Some use Alcumus for this as well.

Edited August 28, 2012 by dereksurfs

[Halcyon]

Halcyon, that is great to hear! I know you have been thinking about this for quite some time now. And yes, the young brain develops so quickly its amazing what a year can do. Now that you gave him another taste and he seemed to enjoy it, you have a bit better sense this might work for him. It also may be something he enjoys as a regular supplimental brain challenge as he completes MM. Some use Alcumus for this as well.

 

Thanks! I definitely think we'll incorporate it. I am, to be honest, quite surprised that he enjoyed it this much. I wonder if it's because the first chapter is easier than the rest? We shall see.

[Crimson Wife]

If anyone stumbles across this thread and is still debating pre-algebra texts, I have to throw in my $0.02 that Singapore Discovering Math 1 (now renamed 7A/B) is excellent for this kind of student. It is challenging but unlike AOPS it doesn't rely on the "discovery" approach, which would drive my DD bonkers.

[....]

Just for the heck of it, we spent an hour on AoPS today, and DS loved it. He immediately seemed to "get" the approach, which surprised me. We had tried AoPS last year, but he wasn't mature enough to tackle the problems; amazing what a difference a year makes.

 

Still not sure what this means in terms of how we will incorporate it, but it's interesting to see what pleasure he got out it. Definitely different than Math Mammoth!!!

 

Post back some updates, because my daughter also started AOPS Pre-Algebra about a month ago. I'm interested to know how everyone is doing with it.

 

The explanations are very clear and the video helps. If your son wants to use Alcumus, you have to fax in a signed permission slip (because of his age). My daughter really likes Alcumus, the 24 game...and she learned a LOT during the section on the Distributive Property. I ended up making some worksheets to give her some practice expanding and combining like terms, etc. I mentioned this before, but I told her that if it takes longer than a year to finish the book - it's OK. If she gets into something that she needs more practice with, I'm OK getting some Key To... workbooks or something to help on the side. Also, I told her that it's like math weightlifting. The problems are more difficult than we're used to. If she only solves 3 problems one day - that's OK. It (finally) won't be a book that she zips through.

 

BTW, I had also tried to steer her towards Jacobs and Singapore DM, but she really wanted to try AOPS (I suspect it's because it has videos - LOL).

[dereksurfs]

Post back some updates, because my daughter also started AOPS Pre-Algebra about a month ago. I'm interested to know how everyone is doing with it.

 

The explanations are very clear and the video helps. If your son wants to use Alcumus, you have to fax in a signed permission slip (because of his age). My daughter really likes Alcumus, the 24 game...and she learned a LOT during the section on the Distributive Property. I ended up making some worksheets to give her some practice expanding and combining like terms, etc. I mentioned this before, but I told her that if it takes longer than a year to finish the book - it's OK. If she gets into something that she needs more practice with, I'm OK getting some Key To... workbooks or something to help on the side. Also, I told her that it's like math weightlifting. The problems are more difficult than we're used to. If she only solves 3 problems one day - that's OK. It (finally) won't be a book that she zips through.

 

BTW, I had also tried to steer her towards Jacobs and Singapore DM, but she really wanted to try AOPS (I suspect it's because it has videos - LOL).

 

Ok, I wasn't going to say this. But Stop It! You guys are making me rethink trying out AoPS Pre-A. :lol: Hahaa. I have already convinced myself it won't be a good fit for ds11 because of his style of learning. ;) Just out of curiouslty I did try to have our local library buy the book. But due to recent budget cuts they declined the request.

 

I am curious to see how things progress with you parents who are going through the same Pre-A stage with your kiddos.

Edited August 28, 2012 by dereksurfs

[Halcyon]

If anyone stumbles across this thread and is still debating pre-algebra texts, I have to throw in my $0.02 that Singapore Discovering Math 1 (now renamed 7A/B) is excellent for this kind of student. It is challenging but unlike AOPS it doesn't rely on the "discovery" approach, which would drive my DD bonkers.

 

Thats good to know. Cuz what. Really need to do is buy another math curriculum. :lol: seriously, though, good to know :001_smile:

[Halcyon]

Post back some updates, because my daughter also started AOPS Pre-Algebra about a month ago. I'm interested to know how everyone is doing with it.

 

The explanations are very clear and the video helps. If your son wants to use Alcumus, you have to fax in a signed permission slip (because of his age). My daughter really likes Alcumus, the 24 game...and she learned a LOT during the section on the Distributive Property. I ended up making some worksheets to give her some practice expanding and combining like terms, etc. I mentioned this before, but I told her that if it takes longer than a year to finish the book - it's OK. If she gets into something that she needs more practice with, I'm OK getting some Key To... workbooks or something to help on the side. Also, I told her that it's like math weightlifting. The problems are more difficult than we're used to. If she only solves 3 problems one day - that's OK. It (finally) won't be a book that she zips through.

 

BTW, I had also tried to steer her towards Jacobs and Singapore DM, but she really wanted to try AOPS (I suspect it's because it has videos - LOL).

 

Hmmm, we have used alcumus before, and i didnt send in anything. What videos are you talking about? (i may know but have forgotten them!)

[....]

Hmmm, we have used alcumus before, and i didnt send in anything. What videos are you talking about? (i may know but have forgotten them!)

 

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Videos/index.php?type=prealgebra

 

AOPS made videos for different concepts throughout the book. The videos explain the basic math behind the concept. They're about 2-3 minutes long. Chapter 1 has 12 videos. You can get there from the link above.

[Halcyon]

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Videos/index.php?type=prealgebra

 

AOPS made videos for different concepts throughout the book. The videos explain the basic math behind the concept. They're about 2-3 minutes long. Chapter 1 has 12 videos. You can get there from the link above.

 

Thanks! Do u watch them BEFORE or after the chapter?

[Nakia]

FWIW, my daughter and I both LOVE Lial. She did BCM in about 4 months and is doing the pre-algebra text now (the parts that weren't covered in BCM). She is exactly the kind of learner you described: "logical, step-by-step, orderly."

[Crimson Wife]

Thats good to know. Cuz what. Really need to do is buy another math curriculum. :lol: seriously, though, good to know :001_smile:

 

That's how I felt about the previous mention of Lial's being good for this type of student. :tongue_smilie: Never mind that in addition to DM, I also have Horizons pre-a, the two LOF pre-a, and the two Danica McKellar pre-a books already on my shelf. :lol:

[dereksurfs]

That's how I felt about the previous mention of Lial's being good for this type of student. :tongue_smilie: Never mind that in addition to DM, I also have Horizons pre-a, the two LOF pre-a, and the two Danica McKellar pre-a books already on my shelf. :lol:

 

Hahaa, we need to start a Pre-Algebra curriculum Purchasing Anonymous (PAPA) support group. I also own Lial's Pre-A book, TM and lessons in CD form. Today I toyed with the idea of purchasing AoPS Pre-A 'briefly.' No more flip flopping people! That's going to be our new motto. :tongue_smilie:

 

Once we hit Algebra 1 Lord help us!!!

 

Crimson Wife, what didn't you like about Horizons pre-a? Just curious.

[Crimson Wife]

Crimson Wife, what didn't you like about Horizons pre-a? Just curious.

 

I actually like it fine for the purposes that I got it- to add spiral review to Singapore DM1 and to slow down a young student by spreading pre-a out over 2 years. :001_smile:

 

If I had to pick just one pre-a book for my DD, I would probably go with Singapore DM1 because I do think the conceptual teaching is a bit stronger in that.

[shanvan]

FWIW, my daughter and I both LOVE Lial. She did BCM in about 4 months and is doing the pre-algebra text now (the parts that weren't covered in BCM). She is exactly the kind of learner you described: "logical, step-by-step, orderly."

 

We're Lial's fans here too. BUT, after our fiasco with Chalkdust (which I paid full price for) I didn't even look at other options. I didn't really belive Jann in TX (sorry, Jann) that a $9 book from amazon would give Ds me everything we needed for the year, but it turned out to be true. Too bad I spent the $400+ on Chalkdust first.

[shanvan]

Hahaa, we need to start a Pre-Algebra curriculum Purchasing Anonymous (PAPA) support group. I also own Lial's Pre-A book, TM and lessons in CD form. Today I toyed with the idea of purchasing AoPS Pre-A 'briefly.' No more flip flopping people! That's going to be our new motto. :tongue_smilie:

 

Once we hit Algebra 1 Lord help us!!!

 

Crimson Wife, what didn't you like about Horizons pre-a? Just curious.

 

All you curriculum collectors (as though I am not one :lol:) need to check out Elegantlion's advice to me last night in this post.

[boscopup]

Hahaa, we need to start a Pre-Algebra curriculum Purchasing Anonymous (PAPA) support group.

 

I'm in! We'll be doing Prealgebra next year, and I still go back and forth as to what to try. We will try AoPS, as I have it and have been working through it myself. The big "if" will be whether he likes proving every little thing he does. I know I hated that in geometry, but this kid might be different. I also have Dolciani, but I think my son's eyes would glaze over if I handed him that text. :lol: Too dry looking, and it has zillions of problems. Jacobs Algebra looks like it would be a good fit, but I'd want to do something more Prealgebra like first. We're using LoF Fractions (almost done) and have Decimals & Percents on the way. So we could do those Prealgebra books also. DS loves Fred.

 

And I also have Foerster's Algebra here, which we may not need to use if we're either doing Jacobs or AoPS. :tongue_smilie:

 

I even have Lial's Algebra 2 just because a friend picked it up at a thrift store for dirt cheap. This really is a sickness. :lol:

 

Halycon, I think people usually watch the AoPS videos after reading the text. That's what I would plan to do. Also, Alcumus is the bomb! It's very addicting. I recommend signing up yourself and trying it out, and see if you can pull yourself away. ;)

[crazyforlatin]

I just received AoPS Pre-A today! Now I have everything that you all have. Almost.

 

It's a thicker book than I imagined. That's my only impression for now. :D

[jennynd]

Thanks! Do u watch them BEFORE or after the chapter?

 

DS is doing Algebra and we let him watch video after he done with the problem set and before exercise if concept is new. If not, we just do the problems.

[Halcyon]

I just received AoPS Pre-A today! Now I have everything that you all have. Almost.

 

It's a thicker book than I imagined. That's my only impression for now. :D

 

Hehe. It is thick, and wordy! But we watched two videos today and his personality is great and really makes the books "fun".

 

Another successful day with AOPS. I am beginnng to think that we might transition to aops and use mm 6 as a supplement for any challenging areas. He needs work more on geometry than arithmetic.

[dereksurfs]

Hehe. It is thick, and wordy! But we watched two videos today and his personality is great and really makes the books "fun".

 

Another successful day with AOPS. I am beginnng to think that we might transition to aops and use mm 6 as a supplement for any challenging areas. He needs work more on geometry than arithmetic.

 

Whoah Halcyon, slow down now...:tongue_smilie: Haha. Just kidding. That's awesome! Your brief experimentation has opened up all kinds of interesting possibilities. If your son seems to like it enough I say why not bring it in more? That's is one of the big advantages of homeschooling. You get to try new things and design your own approaches. He's at the age where taking a couple of years to finish AoPS Pre-A along with other supplimentals would be perfectly fine. In fact it might allow these newer concepts a chance to really sink in before starting Algebra 1.

Edited August 30, 2012 by dereksurfs

[JadeOrchidSong]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0321016076/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

 

Is this the right one to order for Lial's Pre algebra? Where can I find sample pages? Thanks!

 

Halcyon,

I am not sure my son can handle AoPS because he is easily frustrated. Do I have to think of other options. I do like the videos a lot. We may watch them just as supplement.

[shanvan]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0321016076/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

 

Is this the right one to order for Lial's Pre algebra? Where can I find sample pages? Thanks!

 

I can't tell from the link. I'll look at mine tomorrow. I used Lial's Basic College Math, though, not Pre Algebra. It was Jann's rec for which book to cover Pre Algebra.

[wapiti]

Hehe. It is thick, and wordy! But we watched two videos today and his personality is great and really makes the books "fun".

 

Another successful day with AOPS. I am beginnng to think that we might transition to aops and use mm 6 as a supplement for any challenging areas. He needs work more on geometry than arithmetic.

 

Enjoy the videos.

 

As far as geometry goes, if only I had learned it the AoPS way... :)

[....]

Thanks! Do u watch them BEFORE or after the chapter?

 

Sorry about the response time. :blush:

 

We're not in a groove with the videos yet. I think we're supposed to watch them after the first set of problems w/ explanations. I had forgotten about the videos for half the chapter, so we had watched several in a row to catch up. :D The book does such a good job explaining things that if you don't watch the videos - it's OK. Everything is in the book. It is nice to have someone else explain the concept to my daughter, so she doesn't think pre-algebra is something my imagination fabricated. :tongue_smilie:

[....]

If you're looking for pre-algebra...don't forget Jacob's Algebra. The first half of the textbook is a review of everything (if I remember correctly, it really goes back to the beginning with adding/subtracting). The pages are very neat/clear, there aren't alot of problems and it has clear explanations. I tried very hard to steer my daughter towards Jacobs. I may buy it for "back-up" - just in case. I might be using that with my son in a few years.

[Halcyon]

Enjoy the videos.

 

As far as geometry goes, if only I had learned it the AoPS way... :)

 

Which aops geometry is on a smilar level to their pre-a? :bigear:

[Halcyon]

Whoah Halcyon, slow down now...:tongue_smilie: Haha. Just kidding. That's awesome! Your brief experimentation has opened up all kinds of interesting possibilities. If your son seems to like it enough I say why not bring it in more? That's is one of the big advantages of homeschooling. You get to try new things and design your own approaches. He's at the age where taking a couple of years to finish AoPS Pre-A along with other supplimentals would be perfectly fine. In fact it might allow these newer concepts a chance to really sink in before starting Algebra 1.

 

:tongue_smilie: i like using a combo for math, and ds really grooves on a variety of approaches. He seems to REALLY like it, actually asked to do that "fun" math this morning. I suppose mm can get tedious after a while.:tongue_smilie:

[shanvan]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0321016076/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

 

Is this the right one to order for Lial's Pre algebra? Where can I find sample pages? Thanks!

 

 

This is what I used based on Jann's recs. She might be recommending a more recent edition now. When you buy a Lial's text be very careful that the seller specifies there is no writing. Many kids use them like workbooks and, if you're not careful you can end up with a book that has all the problems completed!

 

I thought I found a way to look at samples online, but I can't seem to locate where I saw them.

[wapiti]

Which aops geometry is on a smilar level to their pre-a? :bigear:

 

I was just referring to the geometry chapters in the prealg book;)

[JadeOrchidSong]

This is what I used based on Jann's recs. She might be recommending a more recent edition now. When you buy a Lial's text be very careful that the seller specifies there is no writing. Many kids use them like workbooks and, if you're not careful you can end up with a book that has all the problems completed!

 

I thought I found a way to look at samples online, but I can't seem to locate where I saw them.

 

Do you use the textbook, student solution Manuel and the digital tutorials, or JUST the textbook?

Sorry, Halcyon, for sidetracking on this. Is AoPS Prealgebra going well?

[Halcyon]

Do you use the textbook, student solution Manuel and the digital tutorials, or JUST the textbook?

Sorry, Halcyon, for sidetracking on this. Is AoPS Prealgebra going well?

 

He is enjoying it, thank you! We are still alternati g with CWP and some areas of mm That he hasnt covered. But so far, so good. :D

[shanvan]

Do you use the textbook, student solution Manuel and the digital tutorials, or JUST the textbook?

Sorry, Halcyon, for sidetracking on this. Is AoPS Prealgebra going well?

 

The book, just the book, and nothing but the book. I followed most of Jann in Tx's recommendations. I didn't really believe her when she told me all we would need is the book, but I decided to try it and see. I figured I could order the rest later if I needed them. The isbns for all the extras are on the back of the text, which also would make ordering easier. We never needed them. She was right.

 

If I remember correctly, you assign all odd numbers, b/c all the odds have answers in the back of the book. There are tons of problems in the homework, so odds are definitely enough to assign. Tests and reviews are included for every chapter and those have the answers to both odds & evens in the back.

 

If you end up trying Lial's PM me and I'll give you my list of helpful posts from Jann. Most people do as she suggests and spread one lesson over 2 days.

 

ETA: Found a place for you to look at samples http://instructors.coursesmart.com/9780321614414/chap01

 

These are from the 8th edition.

Edited September 4, 2012 by shanvan

[JadeOrchidSong]

Thanks, Shannon! These pages look very nice and pleasing to the eye.