Saxon... did I make the wrong choice...(sorry got long)

[Heather in VA]

We haven't started school this year yet but I'm already second-guessing my decision. This is for my rising 4th grader (just turned 9). She is ADHD and while she doesn't have official learning disabilities, math has come more slowly for her. We think it's likely she's just one of these late math people (I read somewhere that sometimes math abilities take later to develop).

 

Anyway last year things started clicking for her after the early years working through a variety of things that didn't seem to stick. We ended up doing Teaching Textbooks and she made terrific progress. It was a great intermediate step but as we got to the end of the year it started boring her. She needed their pace to take advantage of the fact that she was finally developing the maturity for math. But it was clear toward the end that she was going to be bored going forward. The computer interface and cute little animals were no longer making up for the fact that she felt like she was doing the exact same thing over and over. Funny because at the beginning of the year she could barely do it.

 

She needs repetition and I do not see a mastery approach working for her. So I went through a bunch of choices and picked Saxon 5/4. Now I'm starting to prep to start school and I'm rethinking. I like the spiral, the review and the built-in facts practice but I'm really starting to worry about all the writing. All the problem copying is going to be a problem. I was going to type it all up as worksheets but I'm starting to think that isn't going to work (not to mention being a royal pain in the you know what).

 

Should I work to make the writing less or are there other similar options that would not require copying all of the problems?

 

Thoughts?

 

Heather

[mschickie]

To me the writing is part of the way the kids make the connections. What you might want to do is break up math to several times during the day. This way she is only doing a little bit at a time.

[thowell]

Have you looked at CLE? Your reasons for worrying about Saxon are the exact reasons that I choose to go with CLE from the start. It has the built in review. It has the spiral incremental steps. Everything build on one another but it is in a workbook format. It is also split into 10 light units for the year which dd9 loves because she feels like she has accompished so much every time she completes a unit. At this point they have through Algebra I complete and are revising the others at 1 level a year I believe. So plenty of time for you. I love CLE and can not see any reason I will ever switch her.

[arcara]

Have you read through the problems? I've found that at least at this level very few of them need to be copied in each set. A lot just require reading and writing an answer. Some are word problems where they do have to write out a problem, but they would have to do this with any curriculum to show their work on word problems. When my oldest did Saxon 54, I just copied the 4-6 problems in each set that truly needed to be copied for her.

 

HTH!

Angela

[Heather in VA]

Have you read through the problems? I've found that at least at this level very few of them need to be copied in each set. A lot just require reading and writing an answer. Some are word problems where they do have to write out a problem, but they would have to do this with any curriculum to show their work on word problems. When my oldest did Saxon 54, I just copied the 4-6 problems in each set that truly needed to be copied for her.

 

HTH!

Angela

 

I did notice that but wasn't sure if that was how it would work out. If we only need to copy up to 6 problems a set we could deal with that. I'll read through some more lessons. At what age/level would you say the problem copying really ramps up?

 

Thanks

Heather

[Heather in VA]

Have you looked at CLE? Your reasons for worrying about Saxon are the exact reasons that I choose to go with CLE from the start. It has the built in review. It has the spiral incremental steps. Everything build on one another but it is in a workbook format. It is also split into 10 light units for the year which dd9 loves because she feels like she has accompished so much every time she completes a unit. At this point they have through Algebra I complete and are revising the others at 1 level a year I believe. So plenty of time for you. I love CLE and can not see any reason I will ever switch her.

 

 

I went back and forth when I was looking and CLE was one of the ones I considered seriously. I think when I was looking at them I preferred the layout of the Saxon TM since this particular student won't be doing much independently for quite a while. But I'm going to go back and look again now that I have Saxon in my hands and can see the pros and cons better.

 

Thanks

Heather

[arcara]

I did notice that but wasn't sure if that was how it would work out. If we only need to copy up to 6 problems a set we could deal with that. I'll read through some more lessons. At what age/level would you say the problem copying really ramps up?

 

Thanks

Heather

 

I don't know what the upper levels are like. Sorry! My oldest switched to Singapore after Saxon 54, so I don't have any experience with it after that. I am going back to Saxon with my 2nd dd this year. She needs the incremental method with lots of review. So, I'm in the same boat as you - hoping this works out!

 

Angela

[Heather in VA]

I don't know what the upper levels are like. Sorry! My oldest switched to Singapore after Saxon 54, so I don't have any experience with it after that. I am going back to Saxon with my 2nd dd this year. She needs the incremental method with lots of review. So, I'm in the same boat as you - hoping this works out!

 

Angela

 

Well then it's good luck to both of us!! I noticed your oldest is doing AoPS ... definitely not the same student that would do Saxon. My oldest two were not Saxon kids either so this is my first foray into Saxon land. I always said never... LOL.

 

Heather

[AngieW in Texas]

Personally, I think Saxon is a nightmare, but I know that it works for some people.

 

I can't imagine it working well for a kid with ADD. The pages are pretty crowded and visually overwhelming. It also has a lot of text and that text is written in educationalese rather than English.

 

If you want something that is incremental and spiral, but in worksheet format with lots of review, then you might be happy with Excel Math.

http://www.excelmath.com/

 

I never used it. I didn't think the format would be good for my kids who need to stick with a topic long enough to really learn it and need to see the whole picture, not bits and pieces.

[maddykate]

I am going to throw another vote in there for CLE. We use it for Math and Langauge Arts for all four of our kiddos. Each of our dc have different learning styles, yet CLE has been a God-send and fit their needs perfectly. It truly is a great program and is incredibly thorough.

 

Oh, I wanted to add... With our oldest dd, we used Saxon until 3rd grade, then switched to CLE. Nothing could make me go back! Oldest dd has finished 7th grade and is strong enough in her math skills that she is now doing Chalkdust Algebra I, without any problems.

Edited August 16, 2012 by maddykate

[arcara]

Well then it's good luck to both of us!! I noticed your oldest is doing AoPS ... definitely not the same student that would do Saxon. My oldest two were not Saxon kids either so this is my first foray into Saxon land. I always said never... LOL.

 

Heather

 

No, my oldest was definitely NOT a Saxon kid and neither is her younger brother. One day earlier this summer Saxon came up in conversation and my dd and I were kinda laughing and talking about all the things she hated about it. While we were talking it occurred to me that all those things made it sound like a perfect fit for her sister. I had to have a talk with my older dd not to say anything negative about it around her sister :) But, my 2nd dd is excited about it. She has already been passed in math by her younger brother and was just kinda spinning her wheels in Singapore. The "54" on the cover of the Saxon book gives her a little math ego boost that she needs :) I'm hoping the method also helps ease her math frustrations as I expect.

[Hunter]

I have found that my choice to use and abandon Saxon over the years was based on character training, and what else I was using for other subjects. My math curriculum choices, depended on what else was happening in our lives.

 

I'm dealing with some co-dependant students with low esteem and lack of independence and stamina skills right now. They need to be placed low, and then drill and kill. Unfortunately 54 is just a little too hard for most of them when they start with me, and I need to find something to use first. I can't wait to use 54 though.

 

But there will be future students that I will NOT use it with, I'm sure, for a variety of reasons.

[besroma]

Have you considered MEP or Horizons Math?

 

MEP has a lot of variety with a puzzle approach and Horizons Math provides spiral review. These could be used standalone or as supplements to what you are using now.

[Heather in VA]

No, my oldest was definitely NOT a Saxon kid and neither is her younger brother. One day earlier this summer Saxon came up in conversation and my dd and I were kinda laughing and talking about all the things she hated about it. While we were talking it occurred to me that all those things made it sound like a perfect fit for her sister. I had to have a talk with my older dd not to say anything negative about it around her sister :) But, my 2nd dd is excited about it. She has already been passed in math by her younger brother and was just kinda spinning her wheels in Singapore. The "54" on the cover of the Saxon book gives her a little math ego boost that she needs :) I'm hoping the method also helps ease her math frustrations as I expect.

 

LOL!!! That's how I ended up with Saxon for my youngest too. I never tried it with my middle but we looked at it a few times for my oldest and each time we both said 'NO!!'. But we were chatting about math options for her senior year since she needs Statistics for the nursing programs she's looking at. I mentioned that maybe Saxon had an AP Statistics. (it doesn't - I ended up spending $106 on a textbook - ICK) So we got to talking and I realized it might be the right choice for littlest. I am so glad she's the youngest. It must be hard on your dd to be passed up in math by the younger sibling. That would definitely have happened here if this dd had not been the youngest. Her next older sister is in 8th grade and doing Algebra II this year.

 

I do think that my misgivings may be stemming from 8 years of figuring I'd never use Saxon. I do have LOF too. That is what really got her going in math and then because she needs the clear instruction, repetition and drill I moved to a more traditional route with LOF as a supplement. I guess at least I can rest assured that it will be easy to sell if it bombs :-).

 

BTW - I like your links to your curriculum and your plans. Great focus on skill subjects.

 

Heather

[Tammyla]

Write in the book...

 

I've known a number of students this has worked for.

[yobella]

We just started using Saxon 65 with my 11 y/o dd who was very recently dx with ADD. We are only on lesson 12 or so, but I like how it's going so far. She really needs the incremental pace with lots of review.

[kolamum]

:grouphug: I'd have stuck with TT.

 

Why? ....

 

Last year we used TT. We took the pretests & placed our children where they tested. They blossomed just fine, they did well & had beautiful grades. This year, after hearing all the TT is weak {despite having my kids bumped ahead} I decided perhaps I should pick something that's not labeled weak. {Did I just respond on another thread about not fixing what isn't broke?!?!}

 

Ha, we went with Saxon & our progress was slow. Not because my kids couldn't do it but because I had to balance teaching two separate math lessons on top of, on top of, on top of.. Yeah, we moved back to TT for one student all ready & the other won't be far behind.

 

I don't think there's enough room in the Saxon book to write in it. That might just be me. I do have my students do a LOT of the lessons orally, & i do think the math book is fine. BUT, the other was better used in our home simply because it got done. I actually made worksheets for the problems I had my child do. It worked for us.

 

Needless to say I won't swap math next year.

[mystika1]

 

 

She needs repetition and I do not see a mastery approach working for her. So I went through a bunch of choices and picked Saxon 5/4. Now I'm starting to prep to start school and I'm rethinking. I like the spiral, the review and the built-in facts practice but I'm really starting to worry about all the writing. All the problem copying is going to be a problem. I was going to type it all up as worksheets but I'm starting to think that isn't going to work (not to mention being a royal pain in the you know what).

 

Should I work to make the writing less or are there other similar options that would not require copying all of the problems?

 

 

 

 

I would just get loose leaf paper and write out the problems. This way you can decide how many problems to work on. Give her lots of space.(I make my dd's math sheets and I used to be funny about using a spreadsheet to make it all professional. I was making it way more complicated than it needed to be.) My dd loves this approach.

 

or

 

I would just make a copy of the pages.(although I much prefer to write it out myself.)

[happypamama]

My DD is a good fit for Saxon, but I don't make her do all of the problems. She tends to make careless mistakes (copies wrong, or doesn't finish a problem, or whatever), so our deal is this: if she gets 90% or better on a test, then for the next five sections (until the next test), she only has to do the odds or evens (depends on the day, and sometimes I swap out a few). If she doesn't get 90%, then she has to do all thirty problems for the next five sections. This has really encouraged her to take her time, write neatly, double-check her work, etc. We remind her to go back over the test to be sure she has answered all of the problems. I've seen a lot of improvement in her organizational skills in the past year (she's 10, going on 11 and has worked through 5/4, 6/5, and half of 7/6 in the past 18 months or so). Rarely does she actually get a problem wrong because she doesn't know how to do it; it's almost always a careless mistake of some sort.

 

She doesn't love math, but Saxon works well for her. Why she likes it: she can "chew" on concepts -- one day, she'll need me to walk her through a problem, the next day only a hint, the day after that -- mastery. There are also always problems that are easy for her, which is an ego boost. Plus, if there's a concept she doesn't like, at least she's not stuck doing an entire page of that concept. Also, she hates silly and goofy -- LoF did not appeal to her *at all.* However, Saxon uses subtle humor, like "Johnny has six appleseeds," and she LOVES that sort of thing, getting a reference that maybe not everyone gets.

 

In my DD's case, she *can* copy correctly but needs to do so carefully, and I think learning to do that, to compensate for her own issues, is a good lifelong skill for her. If she really couldn't copy correctly, I'd copy it myself or find a different program.