AimeeM Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I recently read an interesting article (don't ask me where - it was late, lol) that said a child should study physics and chemistry in middle school BEFORE biology/life science or earth/space. The general jist of the article was that a child can better learn and retain the other areas of science with a strong foundation in physics and chemistry, because those areas are necessary to fully understand biology and/or earth science. My husband of course (having a degree in physics) agrees with the article *lol*. Is there a middle school physical science text that DOESN'T require the use of algebra (Autumn will be doing pre-algebra this year, perhaps only first semester, perhaps all year, we aren't sure yet. Also, if I did something like CPO physical science, I obviously cannot emulate a public school lab (and I do envy them that). My husband will be doing some things with her on the weekends and I plan on some TOPS units - would this, combined with Ellen McHenry for hands on and a physical science textbook, be enough for a decent physical science year? I'm only flirting with the idea because, frankly, my husband is the science geek - not me. Since I have to deal with this stuff during the week, I make the final decision :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Is there a middle school physical science text that DOESN'T require the use of algebra (You might want to check out Conceptual Physical Science by Hewitt and Suchocki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 It looks great. I can't find a sample - do you know what the target age is for this? Is it a middle school text (is the text something a rising 6th grader could understand easily)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 Ah. It looks like there are two editions - one for college level and one for middle school; middle school being Conceptual Physical Science -- Explorations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 It looks great. I can't find a sample - do you know what the target age is for this? Is it a middle school text (is the text something a rising 6th grader could understand easily)? I am sorry, but I am bad at judging age appropriateness of texts. All I can tell you is that I used the book with my 7th grader this past school year and that he liked it. You could buy an old edition for $1 on abebooks.com and have a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenda in FL Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Rainbow Science does Physics and Chemistry at the 7th grade level first. The text then goes into Biology and Earth Science for the second year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Noeo has physic and chemistry for that age, and biology will be out later. We are doing physics for 7th, chemistry 8th, and Biology 9th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Uh, I thought the physics first movement was referring to *high school*. You can do whatever you want in middle school. Nuts, you can do whatever you want in high school for that matter. I'm just saying I think the physics first movement is referring to high school. And as far as an actual sequence and some logic, well I think a little age, maturity, and math on the student makes a difference if you want to replace an actual physical science course in a sequence. There's a lot of math involved in a real physical science class. I have the Hewitt Conceptual Physical Science, and it would be an exceptional student who could do that in 6th. Get it from the library and decide for yourself. The most logical thing to do is think about where you want to be for 8th or 9th and work backwards. You might realize you want to hit certain things (life science or whatever) and that you have preferred materials for those levels and that those materials have an ideal time for your kid. Say for instance you liked BJU's junior high sequence. It would make more sense to work with their sequence than against it. Same thing for if you liked PH or whatever. Whatever you do, you're going to have fun and be fine. I just checked, and yes according to wikipedia the Physics First movement is about doing physics in 9th instead of biology. Has nothing to do with what you do in 6th. Think a little more long-term. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 Uh, I thought the physics first movement was referring to *high school*. You can do whatever you want in middle school. Nuts, you can do whatever you want in high school for that matter. I'm just saying I think the physics first movement is referring to high school. And as far as an actual sequence and some logic, well I think a little age, maturity, and math on the student makes a difference if you want to replace an actual physical science course in a sequence. There's a lot of math involved in a real physical science class. I have the Hewitt Conceptual Physical Science, and it would be an exceptional student who could do that in 6th. Get it from the library and decide for yourself. The most logical thing to do is think about where you want to be for 8th or 9th and work backwards. You might realize you want to hit certain things (life science or whatever) and that you have preferred materials for those levels and that those materials have an ideal time for your kid. Say for instance you liked BJU's junior high sequence. It would make more sense to work with their sequence than against it. Same thing for if you liked PH or whatever. Whatever you do, you're going to have fun and be fine. I just checked, and yes according to wikipedia the Physics First movement is about doing physics in 9th instead of biology. Has nothing to do with what you do in 6th. Think a little more long-term. :) I found the article - it was written by the author of Real Science 4 Kids and she does believe, even on an elementary level, "physics first". My plan, atm, is Behold and See 6 (Catholic heritage Curr)... but like most homeschool science resources, it isn't exactly meaty and it isn't going to take her long to finish (maybe a month); so, I planned to add TOPS units and Ellen McHenry... and now I feel scattered. She loves science. She is very good at science. I don't want to hold her back just because it isn't MY thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Well there's an actual Physics First movement, but it only attempts to restructure the high school sequence. Do as you wish. Whatever you do will be fun. :) Yes, doing the TOPs stuff would be awesome. Has she done Snap Circuits yet? Get her the really big set that has the instruction book with hundreds of projects. My dd loved it around that age, got lots and lots of use out of it. It will tie in well with your physical science idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Well there's an actual Physics First movement, but it only attempts to restructure the high school sequence. Do as you wish. Whatever you do will be fun. :) Yes, doing the TOPs stuff would be awesome. Has she done Snap Circuits yet? Get her the really big set that has the instruction book with hundreds of projects. My dd loved it around that age, got lots and lots of use out of it. It will tie in well with your physical science idea. The Physics First movement is about high school. However, many people try to do Integrated Chemistry and Physics in 8th grade then continue with the traditional high school science sequence. We are among those. Since exposure to Chemistry has become import for high school Biology a solid Integrated Chem/Physics course can make the traditional sequence easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 The Physics First movement is about high school. However, many people try to do Integrated Chemistry and Physics in 8th grade then continue with the traditional high school science sequence. We are among those. Since exposure to Chemistry has become import for high school Biology a solid Integrated Chem/Physics course can make the traditional sequence easier. We're following in your footsteps! I've got the physical science all prepped to go for this year (8th). I don't know if we'll do Chem in 9th or jump over to biology or what. There's the variety argument and not wanting to do chem or physics right after icp. I'm planning to use the Illustrated Guide for chem. I have it, but it's always hard for me to guess in advance how something will be for her when we get there, what year is the right year, that sort of thing. It looks like something that needs some maturity to do. Is that why you're doing it in 10th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeJM Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I recently read an interesting article ... that said a child should study physics and chemistry in middle school BEFORE biology/life science or earth/space. The general jist of the article was that a child can better learn and retain the other areas of science with a strong foundation in physics and chemistry, because those areas are necessary to fully understand biology and/or earth science. NOW they tell me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deniseibase Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Another option for middle school might be Holt Science and Technology Physical Science. It combines physics and some basic chemistry, but requires very little math. Hewitt Conceptual Physics is still pretty math-intensive for most middle school kids. A couple sample questions from the middle of the book will illustrate (I have the tenth edition). - Rearrange the equation 'Current = voltage/resistance' to express resistance in terms of current and voltage. Then solve the following: A certain device in a 120-V circuit has a current rating of 20 A. What is the resistance of the device (how many ohms)? - Will burns a 0.6-g peanut beneath 50 g of water, which increases in temperature from 22 C to 50 C. Assuming 40% efficiency, what is the food value, in calories, of the peanut? What is the food value in calories per gram? Keep in mind, this is for the Conceptual Physics, not the Conceptual Physical Science. Hope that helps!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Another option for middle school might be Holt Science and Technology Physical Science. It combines physics and some basic chemistry, but requires very little math. Hewitt Conceptual Physics is still pretty math-intensive for most middle school kids. A couple sample questions from the middle of the book will illustrate (I have the tenth edition). - Rearrange the equation 'Current = voltage/resistance' to express resistance in terms of current and voltage. Then solve the following: A certain device in a 120-V circuit has a current rating of 20 A. What is the resistance of the device (how many ohms)? - Will burns a 0.6-g peanut beneath 50 g of water, which increases in temperature from 22 C to 50 C. Assuming 40% efficiency, what is the food value, in calories, of the peanut? What is the food value in calories per gram? Keep in mind, this is for the Conceptual Physics, not the Conceptual Physical Science. Hope that helps!! That 2nd question is exactly the same in the Hewitt Conceptual Physical Science text. Didn't look hard enough for the first one, but that's pretty much how they are in that chapter too. It's not the *entirety* of what's there, but it's missing the point if you skip it or aren't ready to do the math. Understanding those relationships is integral to the concepts. Student should be in at least pre-algebra I would think, better algebra 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 It looks great. I can't find a sample - do you know what the target age is for this? Is it a middle school text (is the text something a rising 6th grader could understand easily)? I have this book, and am planning to use it with my 8th grader this year. The book looks great, and the author states that he intends to emphasize concepts over math ("generally" that seems to be true). There are some neat breakouts on science history. I think he will handle it, but it might be too much for a 6th grader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deee Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 For what its worth, I have a degree in biology (biochemistry and genetics). I can't tell you how much I loathe physics! I did very little of it in high school and I think the lack of it had very little effect on my science education or subsequent career. Chemistry is another matter, but neither of them make any real sense without the maths to go with them. Both require an understanding of algebra. So physics at your son's age is better as experiential learning: simple machines, levers, pulleys, etc. Build something that relies on an understanding of forces. Learn about the theory behind heat, light and sound, gravity and motion, but leave the dry formulas till he has the skills to comprehend and work with them. Same for chemistry: look at states of matter, elements as the building blocks of the world etc, but leave off any equations. Keep the mystery and wonder alive a bit longer Meanwhile, I'd consider having a look at some of the British or Australian year 7 and 8 textbooks: both countries (I'm Australian) teach science using an integrated format. Its solves the problem of which first and may give you an idea of how much depth to explore each year. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 For what its worth, I have a degree in biology (biochemistry and genetics). I can't tell you how much I loathe physics! I did very little of it in high school and I think the lack of it had very little effect on my science education or subsequent career. Chemistry is another matter, but neither of them make any real sense without the maths to go with them. Both require an understanding of algebra. So physics at your son's age is better as experiential learning: simple machines, levers, pulleys, etc. Build something that relies on an understanding of forces. Learn about the theory behind heat, light and sound, gravity and motion, but leave the dry formulas till he has the skills to comprehend and work with them. Same for chemistry: look at states of matter, elements as the building blocks of the world etc, but leave off any equations. Keep the mystery and wonder alive a bit longer Meanwhile, I'd consider having a look at some of the British or Australian year 7 and 8 textbooks: both countries (I'm Australian) teach science using an integrated format. Its solves the problem of which first and may give you an idea of how much depth to explore each year. D As much as my husband wants our daughter to shoot for physics, she is shooting for medicine on some level (this is tentative of course, considering she is 11 and also dreams of going to Hogwarts :D). I will say that she is definitively STEM focused - works well for my husband but, as he isn't the one primarily responsible for her education during the normal school week, is much more difficult for me to teach a STEM advanced child when it is not my strong area, especially with the issues that come with her dyslexia (needing something advanced in content, but easy to read and presented in a certain format). My husband is jumping me right now because he thinks I'm second guessing the choices I already made for science... and he's right. The text I chose is only going to last Autumn about 8 weeks, tops. I chose it because *I* am comfortable teaching from it, but it is weak for her. Can you point me towards any good Australian or British texts that you like for middle school age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 We're following in your footsteps! I've got the physical science all prepped to go for this year (8th). I don't know if we'll do Chem in 9th or jump over to biology or what. There's the variety argument and not wanting to do chem or physics right after icp. I'm planning to use the Illustrated Guide for chem. I have it, but it's always hard for me to guess in advance how something will be for her when we get there, what year is the right year, that sort of thing. It looks like something that needs some maturity to do. Is that why you're doing it in 10th? Ds learns best by reading, not doing. Biology is a better fit for that. He did FANTASTIC with Miller/Levine Biology in 9th. He thought he would hate it and actually liked it! While he did fine with the Chemistry in ICP, I think having another year of maturity will help him more in Chem than it would have in Biology. It also gave him time to get his math where it needed to be. I think he will like Chemistry this year. I couldn't have said that a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Interesting, thanks for sharing! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elm in NJ Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 My 8th grader will be doing Conceptual Physical science this year. He wants to go to public high school next year and they do Biology in 9th, so we want to get Physical Science out of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 The (high school ) Hewitt Conceptual Physics book is technically aimed at high school (my son is doing it this year in 9th). That said - I think as long as an 8th grader has decent math skills, the book should be fine. There is math - and I think the text would be best used after algebra 1 is complete, but a math-savvy kid could probably manage with no problems. Also - I really think that with Physics you need to do the labs to make it worthwhile. I can see skipping dissections in biology, or maybe watching things blow up in chemistry online.... but I think physics needs to be experienced especially at the 'conceptual' level. The student lab book is online in pdf form for free, and you can get the teacher's lab manual for about $30 used on Amazon. For extra practice, I recommend getting the "Concept Development" workbook. There aren't enough problems in the text for the kids to practice on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) No way, how did I not realize the student lab book for Conceptual Physical Science was available for free online?? Now I'm going to have to go look for it!! :D Ok, it's not turning up easily. Do you have a link? I have the Arbor link with the supplementary lab activities, however it sounds like you have a link for something different. Thanks! Edited July 31, 2012 by OhElizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 No way, how did I not realize the student lab book for Conceptual Physical Science was available for free online?? Now I'm going to have to go look for it!! :D Ok, it's not turning up easily. Do you have a link? I have the Arbor link with the supplementary lab activities, however it sounds like you have a link for something different. Thanks! If you'd like I can email you the file :) But I'l go see if I can find it again as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 http://assets.pearsonschool.com/asset_mgr/current/20126/conceptual-science-labmanual.pdf There's the link to the Student's Lab Manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I didn't think the lab book was practical for home use, and I sent it back to Amazon last week. I agree it's good to do labs to illustrate the concepts discussed, but there has to be a cheaper way than some of the supplies I saw on that list. I found it to be more than a "stretch," more like virtually impossible for us to attempt. I hope your experience is more fruitful than my feeble attempt to mentally make it work. I was drawing up a list of supplies for the first month, and by Week 3 I was up to $200 worth of equipment (if I could even find what they said was needed). I knew it was just not gonna happen for us. I will do the lab work with other resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Another option for middle school might be Holt Science and Technology Physical Science. It combines physics and some basic chemistry, but requires very little math. My ds used Holt S&T Physical Science in 6th grade. I liked the series so much that I bought all three books. There are a few 'math breaks' in the margins, very simple, and you can even skip them. Plus there are lots of illustrations & charts. I have only looked at CPO briefly -- it seemed more mathy to me. Another option -- I see your dd is only 10 -- might be Pacemaker General Science. Both Pacemaker & Holt have companion (optional) workbooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 http://assets.pearsonschool.com/asset_mgr/current/20126/conceptual-science-labmanual.pdf There's the link to the Student's Lab Manual Thanks!!!!!!!!! :D So by chance do you happen to know where to buy the probes he mentions in the lab manuals? We used those in high school, but I haven't a clue where you buy them. HST doesn't seem to have them. Nuts, I'm not even sure probe is the right word. I'm on Arbor's website and haven't found them yet. I'm thinking of the thermometers, light probes, etc. that you can connect to the computer (via USB?) to feed data to make it accurate and a snap to graph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) My middle son transferred to an IB school and discovered that (unlike him), most of the students in the IB physics had already had quite a bit of physics in their earlier grades. That really sold me on the value of more physics sooner! Edited August 1, 2012 by Penguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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