Gripe/rant/vent about a girls' club

[Sahamamama]

The national boys' church program for the Assemblies of God is called Royal Rangers, and (IMO) it has been and still is a great program for boys.

 

The national girls' church program is now called Mpact Girls Club -- used to be called Missionettes -- and it has been and is so... underwhelming. :tongue_smilie:I don't mean the individual ministries carried out by local churches, in which the leaders try to make do with pathetic materials. I mean the curricular material itself. Something about it bothers me. It feels like marshmallow fluff to me -- all sweet and "relevant" and "hip" but no meat on the bone.

 

A badge in hair care and nail care? :tongue_smilie:It's called the "Grooming" badge, and the subtitle is "You can't put whipped cream on a garbage can." :confused: What? And more of the same. And it's the same predictable material, year after year, without a noticeable upgrade of challenge in the later levels. At least as far as I have been able to determine.

 

What else is there for girls?

 

American Heritage Girls? -- the nearest club is an hour away from us.

 

Girl Scouts? -- I'll look into this more, but not sure about the current philosophy.

 

AWANA? -- there is a church that does AWANA in our town, but I haven't heard back from the director.

 

What else is there? :bigear:

[CatMomof3]

Don't have time to get into details about girl scouts (meeting starts in 1 hour), but my Juniors are working on their bronze award. Since they couldn't decide on what project they want to work on, they are doing 3. 2 girls are the team leaders (think CEO and CFO) of each project and the rest of the girls are helping the project. So each girl has a chance to be a leader and a "worker bee"

 

These are the 3 projects:

-local food bank

-Ronald McDonald House

-local no-kill animal shelter

[Sahamamama]

Don't have time to get into details about girl scouts (meeting starts in 1 hour), but my Juniors are working on their bronze award. Since they couldn't decide on what project they want to work on, they are doing 3. 2 girls are the team leaders (think CEO and CFO) of each project and the rest of the girls are helping the project. So each girl has a chance to be a leader and a "worker bee"

 

These are the 3 projects:

-local food bank

-Ronald McDonald House

-local no-kill animal shelter

 

Thanks, Alison. Tell me more about Scouts when you have the time. I haven't been in scouts since I was a brownie, many (many) years ago! :D

[Laughing Hen]

:bigear: My two oldest just (just!) got involved with the newly-forming 4H club locally, and we've had a run with Girl Scouts. Curious what else may be out there...

[SilverMoon]

.

Edited August 31, 2023 by SilverMoon

[Ecclecticmum]

"You can't put whipped cream on a garbage can." :confused:

 

Seriously? :lol: I nearly lost my coffee over the keyboard.

 

I can't believe any program would have that. I hear a lot of good things about AWANA, unfortunately the closest thing we have to a "club" of any sort of description out here (rural-ish Aus) is "The Men's Shed" where they get drunk, tell tales, and pretend to make stuff out of wood :tongue_smilie:

 

Two programs I have is Keepers of the Faith and Pearables stuff. I think there are quite a few "Keepers at home" and Contenders for the faith groups, you would have to check out their website.

 

I have to write down that, to tell DH. To me, that line is wrong on so many levels :001_huh:

[SkateLeft]

She wanted camping, learning to use a pocketknife, cooking over a real campfire, big projects, helping the community, and being messy without being chided for getting paint on her shirt.

 

That was me, way back when! I wanted to be a Boy Scout in the worst way, because my brother had so much fun.

 

I was a Brownie drop-out. I got tired doing things like wrapping yarn around coffee cans to make pencil holders.

 

BSA offers Venturing, which is a co-ed program for high school age kids. My girls really wanted to do Venturing, but we couldn't find an active Crew in our area.

 

Instead, they're registered as Patriots in AHG for the fall. We'll see how it goes.

[Caraway]

"You can't put whipped cream on a garbage can."

 

:smilielol5:

 

I think this requires a photo. How did that possibly make it onto a final product???

 

Does a poorly groomed girl = a garbage can :001_huh:

Edited July 25, 2012 by Caraway

[SilverMoon]

sailmom said:

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by SilverMoon

[Forgiven]

Hey! I'm an Mpact leader. LOL I do see what you're saying, but the Royal Rangers do have a badge for cleanliness, and I do laugh. LOL Depending on the club, not all badges will or need to be done. I don't remember that one being taught to my dd, who is in her secong year of Stars. I've taught Rainbows, Daisies, and Stars, but never Friends, Prims, or Girls Clubs.

 

I know that I don't teach from the manual. I look at the actual scripture verse that they have to memorize for the badge, go over the lessons to see what exactly the purpose of the lesson is. What are the girls supposed to learn from the unit? Then I teach that topic to the girls various ways. Sometimes I use the information in the leader's manual, but not usually.

 

Now that I think about it, there is a badge in Daisies for healthcare, I think. Maybe that's the grooming thing. I've never taught that one because they should be learning good grooming at home. I try to pick badges that aren't something that all the girls will get at home. badges pertaining to God and our beliefs and spirituality.

 

I remember when I was a brownie and learned to sew and stuff. We do that in Mpact too. All the girls in the Friends club last year learned how to knit and/or crochet (their choice of which they wanted to learn) and then they made hats for babies in another country. I can't remember which country unfortunately.

 

I think a lot of the Mpact and Royal Rangers program depends on the leaders. I know that our Royal Rangers program lacks big time! The content is good, but they don't do anything at the meetings. Everything has to be done at home. It's okay for us because we homeschool, but think of the kids that come home from school and then have to do all their Royal Rangers work on their own at home, after they do their homework! Yikes! I wish our church would get it together and actually help the boys work on their badges. It's not just about camping trips and making bow and arrows, which is all they tend to do.

 

I know that our Mpact group isn't the norm, but the girls really do learn a lot. It's amazing to watch a young rainbow grow up and be crowned an Honor Star and listen to the essay they've written about what they've learned over the years. I cry every time.

 

Sorry your experience isn't the same. I think that it totally depends on the leaders to get in there and pick the right badges. More badges than are required for the clubs are given to choose from. There are over 27 in Rainbows and only 18 are needed to finish the program. In Daisies, there are 15 and only 9 are needed. I'm not sure about Prims, and I just started teaching Stars, so I don't remember how many there are, but nine per year are needed (total of three years) with nine honor steps (three per year). We pick and choose. We don't do everything...

 

Edited to add: I do remember a couple years back that the Friends club did do something with grooming, but it wasn't fluff at all. It did contain information on good grooming, but it also dealt with self image, which to me is very important stuff for a girl. I'll have to take a peek at the book tonight when I'm at church to see if it talked about whipped cream on a garbage can. That just is so loopy. But if that's the badge, I remember the leader at our church said it was an amazing unit, and had a huge impact on many of the girls.

 

Sorry, jumping out of here. I am going to find out which club that is and look over the information tonight. We have an Mpact meeting and we're going over stuff for the start of the next year, so I'll be searching and asking around. ;)

Edited July 25, 2012 by Forgiven

[...................]

Maybe I'm slow, but what were they getting at with the whipped cream phrase? What connection does that have?

 

 

Anyway, there's also Bright Lights, which a friend of mine attends. They love it.

 

AWANA is very fun, very scripture-focused, and since the goal is outreach to kids, I'm sure your kids will be MORE than welcomed at the church nearby who hosts it! They know and want kids from other churches and the neighborhood to attend, because the more kids, the more fun!

 

(my dd absolutely loves AWANA). After AWANA, we are considering Bright Lights.

[zoo_keeper]

I'm considering having the girls register as independent GSs. That way, we don't have to do silly badges, attend time-sucking meetings, or sell overpriced cookies, but we can still attend STEM activities or other events that are educational and catch our fancy.

[Ellie]

Former Missionettes coordinator here. :-)

 

Actually, Mpact Girls' Ministries is the pre-school and elementary program (Daisies, Prims, Stars; I forget what the pre-school program is called); Teen Girl Ministries is high school programs (Friends and Girls Only). Altogether, the official name is National Girls Ministries. And yes, the new program names are stupid and confusing (not to mention grammatically incorrect--there ARE correct uses for apostrophes :glare:), and the whole program is underwhelming.

 

It can be better, depending on the leaders, but in general...::shrugs::

 

And it's sexist. Royal Rangers outposts charter with the national office; they get a number, which is registered to them for eternity. Once they charter, they get a discount on Gospel Publishing House materials.

 

Not so National Girls Ministries. They also charter every year, but they're just, you know, the club that meets at Suchandsuch Church. No discount.

 

Royal Rangers has many leader training opportunities and programs. Not so NGM. Local sections might do some training, depending on how active the section NGM is, but there's nothing from the top down, IYKWIM.

 

If we were attending an AG church, I'd have my dds participate, but for a really meaty program, I'd go for American Heritage Girls.

[SkateLeft]

I'm considering having the girls register as independent GSs. That way, we don't have to do silly badges, attend time-sucking meetings, or sell overpriced cookies, but we can still attend STEM activities or other events that are educational and catch our fancy.

 

After we moved away from her original troop, my oldest dd was registered as a Juliette (independent GS) for a couple of years, until she hit the Studio 2B program, which was replacing the cadet/senior program in our council. I've since been told that other councils were not pushing the transition to Studio 2B, and that the entire upper level program has been revised.

 

It was crazy bad... just... terrible. We both attended a bridging event from Juniors to Studio 2B, and walked out feeling like we were the only sane people there. The material was narcissistic and inane.

 

That was the end of our relationship with GS.

[classics4us]

We are big fans of American Heritage Girls, they have an independant program called Trailblazers.

Edited July 25, 2012 by classics4us
spelling

[momaof3]

We love Awana and have been doing it since my oldest was 3 and he's now 9. My kids love the memorization and game time. I know a lot of it has to do with the way our church does it but we wouldn't change it at all. My oldest wanted to do scouts in 1st grade but daddy isn't the scout type and I couldn't add another thing to my plate at the time. Now all our troops are tied to a school so I'm sure how that will work for us now.

[TXBeth]

We attended an AG church for two years when I was growing up, and in that time I participated in Stars all the way through being crowned Star of Stars. After being in Awana for several years, Missionettes was so boring and required zero effort. Complete waste of time. Yes, we had to read through the Bible, but there was very little memory work and the badges were stupid. Royal Rangers, on the other hand, was wonderful for my brothers. They learned a ton and gained survival and leadership skills.

If I were you, I would dump Missionettes (girls club, whatever) and go with Awana or Girl Scouts.

[Sahamamama]

They significantly reduced the rigor/quality of the curriculum with that name change. I was in Springfield during the rewrite years (at AGTS) and did some technical editing on parts of the GO course. I agree, the rigor went completely out the window. The rationale was that kids these days don't want homework for a church mid-week program. So the basis of Mpact now is that it's "social." :001_huh: I did Stars myself as a kid. Me, too. Did Prims, too, and have my beanie to prove it, LOL. It was challenging, and only the dedicated kids finished. We read through the entire Bible to finish the four levels, did gobs of memory work (entire love chapter), and more. The fluffy stuff wasn't frequent.

 

Fast forward to my oldest dd doing Stars. I kept asking her leader to let me know what I could help her with at home, because I knew there was no way to do it all in one hour a week. After a couple months of that she pulled me aside and informed me that there isn't any homework, they do in fact complete it all in class, and there was only one memory verse a month.

 

That DD also did Girl Scouts for a few years. She and I were both fluffed out. She learned how to measure a room to know how many people she could invite for an event, how to decorate, had fun parties, and went camping once a year. When her little brother finished Tigers, the youngest Cub Scout level, she told me she'd rather be a Cub Scout. She had more fun participating and helping out with the first grade boys than she did her whole year of Girl Scouts. She wanted camping, learning to use a pocketknife, cooking over a real campfire, big projects, helping the community, and being messy without being chided for getting paint on her shirt. (I tried asking around for a troop more suited for her, and was told she was already in the most active one in the area.)

 

Now we've helped pioneer our own American Heritage Girls troop. This is more like Boy Scouts/Royal Rangers for girls. Last year we approached the charter organization for our boys' scouts, and asked them to consider a girls' club as well. They did the research, said yes, and started the enormous amount of paperwork involved. After all these years we finally have an equal opportunity for the girls, and we're sticking with it. :001_smile:

 

Thank you so much for posting this. I have hesitated to gripe here on the boards, because they are so public. KWIM? But then again, they are public, so perhaps there's someone else out there who's been frustrated with Mpact's fluff. I've been underwhelmed for a few years with Prims/Stars -- don't even get me started on Rainbows/Daisies. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think part of it is that when I was a Prim, my dad was a Royal Ranger commander. What the boys did outside looked like so much fun, compared to what we were doing inside. The boys got to chop wood with a hatchet and saw wood with a bow saw; we use glue and scissors to make Valentines for the nursing home out of red construction paper and white paper doilies. The boys got to learn to tie knots; we embroidered a hanky. The boys got to pitch their own tents and build their own campfires and cook over FIRE at Pow-wows. By the time the Missionettes showed up at Powettes, a group of men from the RRs had already set up the entire campsite and the women did all the cooking for the whole week.

 

In spite of the work I know the leaders must have put into it (and for which I am truly grateful), I always felt RIPPED-OFF as a Missionette! :rant:

 

But I didn't want to be a boy. I just wanted to be a Royal Ranger. :D KWIM? Thanks for posting, I'll look into AHG and anything else that looks promising. Was it hard to pioneer a group? I'm :bigear:.

[Sahamamama]

To me, that line is wrong on so many levels :001_huh:

 

I know. I put whipped cream on garbage cans all the time. What's the big deal? :lol::lol::lol:

[Sahamamama]

Hey! I'm an Mpact leader. My gripe/complaint is definitely NOT against any leader of any club. Instead, it's against the material that is offered to leaders and girls, because IMO the quality is so lacking.

 

I know that I don't teach from the manual. I look at the actual scripture verse that they have to memorize for the badge, go over the lessons to see what exactly the purpose of the lesson is. What are the girls supposed to learn from the unit? Then I teach that topic to the girls various ways. Sometimes I use the information in the leader's manual, but not usually.

 

My sister is a Prims leader at her church, and she said that she can't teach from the manual "because there's not enough there." IOW, she admits that there is SO LITTLE CONTENT, she sometimes looks at the lesson and thinks, "Really? They couldn't do better than that?" Springfield really makes the leaders come up with so much of their own material, what's the point of the leader's manual. I have the one for Prims, and it's pointless.

Now that I think about it, there is a badge in Daisies for healthcare, I think. Maybe that's the grooming thing. It's in Stars level, which is for 3rd-5th graders. I've never taught that one because they should be learning good grooming at home. I try to pick badges that aren't something that all the girls will get at home, badges pertaining to God and our beliefs and spirituality.

 

Again, no offense to any leaders of individual clubs. In my book, you are amazing if you are able to come up with lessons based on the meager material you've been given to work with.

[Sahamamama]

Former Missionettes coordinator here. :-)

 

Actually, Mpact Girls' Ministries is the pre-school and elementary program (Daisies (Kinder), Prims (1st-2nd), Stars (3rd-5th); I forget what the pre-school program is called (Rainbows)); Teen Girl Ministries is high school programs (Friends and Girls Only). Altogether, the official name is National Girls Ministries. And yes, the new program names are stupid and confusing (not to mention grammatically incorrect--there ARE correct uses for apostrophes :glare:), and the whole program is underwhelming. Ellie, I'm glad I'm not the only person who has been involved and sees this. [sigh of relief].

 

It can be better, depending on the leaders, but in general...::shrugs::

 

And it's sexist. Royal Rangers outposts charter with the national office; they get a number, which is registered to them for eternity. Once they charter, they get a discount on Gospel Publishing House materials.

 

Not so National Girls Ministries. They also charter every year, but they're just, you know, the club that meets at Suchandsuch Church. No discount.

 

Wow. The sexism in the AG, that I knew about. The yearly charter and no-discount thing, that is news. Wow. In a way, though, I'm not surprised. It's pretty typical AG, isn't it?

 

Royal Rangers has many leader training opportunities and programs. Not so NGM. Local sections might do some training, depending on how active the section NGM is, but there's nothing from the top down, IYKWIM.

 

If we were attending an AG church, I'd have my dds participate, but for a really meaty program, I'd go for American Heritage Girls.

 

AHG has a club 45 minutes from us. Hmmm.....

[SilverMoon]

Sahamamama said:

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by SilverMoon

[CatMomof3]

Back from our GS meeting :001_smile:

 

Girl Scouts really is what your leader (or you) makes of it. When my dd joined as a Brownie I had no intention to be a leader, BUT there were no other brownie leaders so I just did it. The beginning of the second year I had over 12 girls join :willy_nilly: , and that was the DRAMA year :glare:. Long story short the Daisy leader left and took over half of my brownies. The brownies that left were the brownies that had moms that WERE NOT involved AT ALL. At the time I was distraught, thinking I did something wrong, but looking back I am happy it happen because I ended up a core 6 girls with active Moms :D. 4 of the 6 girls bridged to Juniors this past year and are almost done with their Bronze award. ALL badges, journeys, and activities the girls have input in.

 

Now with camping, we are not a huge camping troop because when we went camping last year that was the FIRST time any of them, including the MOMS, had gone camping. This year we have gone camping 2x and will be going camping 2x in October. The next couple years the girls want to camp more, so we will be practicing cooking outside and doing other activities to get them ready for longer camping trips.

 

Now ready for the real shocker, we were making cookies for the food bank AND that was the FIRST time any of the girls (except my dd) had made cookies from scratch. So the girls want to do more cooking :D

 

Now with badges Council changed everything about a year ago, I don't love it but I don't hate it. It is what it is.

 

With cookie sales, frankly I don't mind my dd selling cookies. It is a product that is recognize by almost anyone and she gets a more YESs then I do when I am selling prayer books at conferences. It helps build her confidence. She is also running her own business, she wanted to sell 300 boxes this past year AND did. She worked over 29 hours at booths, plus did a lot of door to door. I know some girls' moms and dads sell, not mine :D. Also most of the girls' profit is going back into the community (the girls' choice). I am also a leader that believes that if should be the girls' choice whether to sell. I know one leader that had no meetings during cookie season and each girl HAD to sell :glare:

 

Hopes this helps. Sorry I am all over the place, my one year old will not let me type.

[Sahamamama]

That's my oldest dd. She doesn't want to be a boy, just wants to join the fun and learn quality skills, too. If push came to shove she is totally enough of a scout to hold her own in our Boy Scout troop. What she can't do with the boys we can make up for as a family. I haven't put my own tent up in years. :D

 

Our end of the AHG pioneering hasn't been difficult. We printed a few flyers off the AHG website and got them in the hands of the head deacons at a church with a community outreach focus. They were already the charter organization for a thriving Boy Scout troop, and a fairly new Cub Scout pack. They *wanted* to do something for the girls, but simply couldn't find a viable option, and didn't know AHG existed. From thereon we made sure they knew we were interested in helping wherever possible, kept asking for updates, offered help any way we could, and did what we could to keep the ball rolling. (Did I mention offering help?) Since we were already trained BSA leaders with current background checks our training was already sufficient (AHG uses a lot of the BSA materials to train their leaders).

 

Now the guy at the church who was primarily responsible for the mound of paperwork and organization to establish the charter? That guy needed a pat on the back regularly. He earned it. :001_smile:

 

Thanks, Moon. We'll consider AHG, even if we have to start a group.

[Sahamamama]

Now with badges Council changed everything about a year ago, I don't love it but I don't hate it. It is what it is.

 

Hopes this helps. Sorry I am all over the place, my one year old will not let me type.

 

Thanks, Alison, yes it does help. Did Council eliminate badges? My girls LOVE badges! :D There have to be badges, duh. :lol:

[CatMomof3]

No they just changed the requirements and the way they look.

[Ellie]

AHG has a club 45 minutes from us. Hmmm.....

 

It might be worth it. :)

 

The troop at my church requires lots of parental involvement, such that driving 45 minutes to get there isn't a big deal because you have to stay there with your dd instead of dropping them off and picking them up and trying to figure out what to do with yourself during the meeting. :)

 

Rainbows is for preschool-age boys and girls, but there's a program for children even younger, called Sunlight Kids. Really.

 

ETA: Code of Conduct

 

This is the thing that drove me out of National Girls' Ministries (I have to write it correctly even if the AG doesn't :D ). FTR, there is nothing similar to it for Royal Rangers. Why am I not surprised? :glare:

Edited July 25, 2012 by Ellie

[Sahamamama]

ETA: Code of Conduct

 

This is the thing that drove me out of National Girls' Ministries (I have to write it correctly even if the AG doesn't :D ). FTR, there is nothing similar to it for Royal Rangers. Why am I not surprised? :glare:

1. Be born again

John 3:3; Acts 16:31

2.

Live a consistent Christian life as outlined in Scripture

Galatians 5:16–26

3. Be faithful in church attendance as circumstances permit

Hebrews 10:25

 

I commit that with God’s help I will live by the Christian character requirements listed above.

I will accept biblical guidance from my Girls Ministries leaders.

 

So technically, a leader could prevent a girl who has completed all the requirements as written from being awarded/recognized publicly, if there is something about which they disagree and the girl does not "submit" enough to satisfy the leader. For example, the leader counsels the girl to lose the blue hair and nose ring (:lol:), but the girl refuses to do so. Or the leader counsels the girl to stop seeing a boy at school, or to stop listening to certain music, or to come to church three times a week.... etc., etc., etc. Was "accept biblical guidance" your point of objection? Or that a Royal Ranger doesn't have a parallel code? Just curious as to your thoughts about this. I never knew about it until now. :glare:

[pitterpatter]

I long for a good girls club as well. Sigh.

 

We were going to sign up DD for 4-H, but there isn't one Clover Kids group around here that has more than a single girl DD's age. Double sigh.

Edited July 25, 2012 by pitterpatter

[TXBeth]

 

1. Be born again

 

John 3:3; Acts 16:31

 

2.

Live a consistent Christian life as outlined in Scripture

 

Galatians 5:16–26

 

3. Be faithful in church attendance as circumstances permit

 

Hebrews 10:25

 

 

 

I commit that with God’s help I will live by the Christian character requirements listed above.

I will accept biblical guidance from my Girls Ministries leaders.

 

 

So technically, a leader could prevent a girl who has completed all the requirements as written from being awarded/recognized publicly, if there is something about which they disagree and the girl does not "submit" enough to satisfy the leader. For example, the leader counsels the girl to lose the blue hair and nose ring (:lol:), but the girl refuses to do so. Or the leader counsels the girl to stop seeing a boy at school, or to stop listening to certain music, or to come to church three times a week.... etc., etc., etc. Was "accept biblical guidance" your point of objection? Or that a Royal Ranger doesn't have a parallel code? Just curious as to your thoughts about this. I never knew about it until now. :glare:

 

I don't think it means "accept the leader's guidance as if it were Biblical." I think it means, "accept the leader's guidance (as long as it is Biblical)." I actually don't have a problem with this code of conduct. I don't know about the official paperwork, but I do know that when my brothers were in Royal Rangers, they would not achieve top ranks without demonstrating the fruit of the spirit as well as leadership skills.

[Ellie]

1. Be born again

John 3:3; Acts 16:31

2.

Live a consistent Christian life as outlined in Scripture

Galatians 5:16–26

3. Be faithful in church attendance as circumstances permit

Hebrews 10:25

 

I commit that with God’s help I will live by the Christian character requirements listed above.

I will accept biblical guidance from my Girls Ministries leaders.

 

So technically, a leader could prevent a girl who has completed all the requirements as written from being awarded/recognized publicly, if there is something about which they disagree and the girl does not "submit" enough to satisfy the leader. For example, the leader counsels the girl to lose the blue hair and nose ring (:lol:), but the girl refuses to do so. Or the leader counsels the girl to stop seeing a boy at school, or to stop listening to certain music, or to come to church three times a week.... etc., etc., etc. Was "accept biblical guidance" your point of objection? Or that a Royal Ranger doesn't have a parallel code? Just curious as to your thoughts about this. I never knew about it until now. :glare:

Yes, exactly, all of it.

 

Inappropriate behavior is addressed many times in the Friends and Girls Only programs, which are discussion-based as opposed to the activity-page-based younger levels. There is ample opportunity to not only discuss s*x, dr*gs, and the whole thing, but how God can change hearts so that outward behavior changes as well, and that God wants us to be pure, and the whole nine yards. It is not possible for a girl to go through all the levels and not know what is right, KWIM? To require them to sign the code of conduct is unnecessary, even if a local church might decide that a girl's behavior is so bad and unrepentant that it would just be wrong for her to stand in front of the congregation--and all the younger girls--and be honored.

 

Also, notice that the girls' parents are not mentioned anywhere in the document. The parents would never know that beginning at third grade, their young daughters are supposed to sign this Code of Conduct, and that it's supposed to be binding somehow. And remember that churches are encouraged to make their children's clubs an outreach to the "unchurched." Imagine a situation where a girl whose parents are not Christians makes some unfortunate decisions after 11 years, and is either expected to endure church discipline or not be recognized for her many achievements.

 

And yes, it offends me that there is nothing similar for Royal Rangers.

 

I had a very *strong* conversation with the woman at the very top of National Girls Ministries. She was thunderstruck that I wouldn't require my girls to sign that piece of paper, and she saw nothing wrong with not requiring anything similar for RR. And no, NOTHING went home to parents about it.

 

FTR, my pastor agreed with me.

[Ellie]

I don't think it means "accept the leader's guidance as if it were Biblical." I think it means, "accept the leader's guidance (as long as it is Biblical)." I actually don't have a problem with this code of conduct. I don't know about the official paperwork, but I do know that when my brothers were in Royal Rangers, they would not achieve top ranks without demonstrating the fruit of the spirit as well as leadership skills.

I have a problem with requiring little 8yo girls to sign this, and every year after that, without their parents knowing about it.

 

It was a knee-jerk reaction to some bad situations. It is unenforceable, too.

 

I would have no problem with expecting high school-age girls to demonstrate the fruit of the spirit in order to receive their awards; I'm just opposed to their having to sign a piece of paper, without their parents' knowledge, beginning in the third grade.

[Sahamamama]

Yes, exactly, all of it.

 

Inappropriate behavior is addressed many times in the Friends and Girls Only programs, which are discussion-based as opposed to the activity-page-based younger levels. There is ample opportunity to not only discuss s*x, dr*gs, and the whole thing, but how God can change hearts so that outward behavior changes as well, and that God wants us to be pure, and the whole nine yards. It is not possible for a girl to go through all the levels and not know what is right, KWIM? To require them to sign the code of conduct is unnecessary, even if a local church might decide that a girl's behavior is so bad and unrepentant that it would just be wrong for her to stand in front of the congregation--and all the younger girls--and be honored.

 

Also, notice that the girls' parents are not mentioned anywhere in the document. The parents would never know that beginning at third grade, their young daughters are supposed to sign this Code of Conduct, and that it's supposed to be binding somehow. And remember that churches are encouraged to make their children's clubs an outreach to the "unchurched." Imagine a situation where a girl whose parents are not Christians makes some unfortunate decisions after 11 years, and is either expected to endure church discipline or not be recognized for her many achievements.

 

And yes, it offends me that there is nothing similar for Royal Rangers.

 

I had a very *strong* conversation with the woman at the very top of National Girls Ministries. She was thunderstruck that I wouldn't require my girls to sign that piece of paper, and she saw nothing wrong with not requiring anything similar for RR. And no, NOTHING went home to parents about it.

 

FTR, my pastor agreed with me.

 

And so do I, Ellie.

 

I remember a situation years ago when a church choir director required choir members -- many of whom had been faithfully, punctually singing in the choir for 30 years -- to sign a "Commitment Pledge," vowing to attend all choir practices, be on time, practice at home, etc., etc., etc.

 

I refused to sign. I objected on the grounds that those who would be faithful would be faithful, and those who wouldn't would never change because of a piece of paper. I felt the requirement was intended to humiliate, shame, and embarrass committed, working adults -- the more conscientious a person was, the more humiliating the signing seemed to be. So I spoke up, and the whole matter was reconsidered and finally dropped. I wasn't popular with the director, though, but I didn't care at all.

 

I also agree with your position on the wrongness of not informing parents that their minor children are covenanting something. This is the first I've ever heard of the CoC and I've been in the AG/girls' club circles all my life (45 years and counting). So...

 

Good point.

[Ellie]

And so do I, Ellie.

TYVM.

 

I remember a situation years ago when a church choir director required choir members -- many of whom had been faithfully, punctually singing in the choir for 30 years -- to sign a "Commitment Pledge," vowing to attend all choir practices, be on time, practice at home, etc., etc., etc.

 

I refused to sign. I objected on the grounds that those who would be faithful would be faithful, and those who wouldn't would never change because of a piece of paper. I felt the requirement was intended to humiliate, shame, and embarrass committed, working adults -- the more conscientious a person was, the more humiliating the signing seemed to be. So I spoke up, and the whole matter was reconsidered and finally dropped. I wasn't popular with the director, though, but I didn't care at all.

Good for you.

 

I also agree with your position on the wrongness of not informing parents that their minor children are covenanting something. This is the first I've ever heard of the CoC and I've been in the AG/girls' club circles all my life (45 years and counting).

This was announced over two years ago. It's in the most recent leader "training" guide. I think it was sort of sneaky the way it was done; none of the other leaders I mentioned it to at that time had heard of it, either. It only came out on the NGM website and e-letter, not in any snail-mailings or anything; leaders who didn't get the NGM e-letter (and there are many of those) wouldn't have seen it. Only churches which were training new leaders would have seen it; existing leaders had no reason to see the new "training" guide. (I say "training" because truly, there isn't all that much training.).