Anyone have a child that doesn't like learning?

[Cricket]

Everything I read about homeschooling talks about children having a natural desire to learn. Well, my oldest doesn't. Nothing interests him. He hates every subject we are studying. He fights me every time I ask him to write, read, do anything. The only thing he wants to do is watch TV and play computer games. During the week he is limited to 1/2 of computer time per day and he usually watches about 2 hours total of TV during the day. Dh and I think we should eliminate it for him altogether.

 

I guess the only subject he shows an inkling of interest in is art. He does like to draw and draws well. He likes looking at other paintings and copying them. But once it starts to turn into work (as in more than 5 minutes) he doesn't want to do it. He can focus when he chooses to. He takes tae kwon do and I think that has helped some.

 

Also, I'm curious as to what your 10-year-olds are doing for work. I want to know if I'm expecting enough of my son. Part of the problem could be that I haven't been pushing him enough and making him do the work he should be doing so I've helped him develop these lazy habits.

 

Anyone who has BTDT with advice, I would be interested in any thoughts!

[SusanG]

This is my 7 year old daughter. She hates to read, barely tolerates math, and stares indifferently as we do history and science. She LOVES to draw - she spends 2 or 3 hours a day drawing. She will sit in front of the tv with the Tivo remote, pausing cartoons and drawing the characters, then later she adds a "scene' of her own behind them. She also loves singing, dancing, and doing impersonations. I truly feel like I'm breaking her spirit when I force loads of school work, so lately I've been requiring 1 book to be read a day (she's a bit behind in her reading skills, but catching up), a few pages of math, and she has to be in the room (drawing, generally) when we do our other subjects. I guess it kind of amounts to unschooling, but it works for us. As she gets older I will probably have to require a bit more, but I don't think she'll ever do as much academically as our son does. He has no interest in drawing, singing, or dancing, and he has never given me any trouble about doing his lessons. It's hard to believe they're related. I usually tell people my kids are my own personal educational experiment - the classically educated child versus the unschooled free spirit. I can't wait to see how they both turn out as adults!

[Michelle T]

He is 12. He is interested in learning about computer blogging and graphics. He is NOT interested in anything academic and never has been. He would much prefer to spend his days on the computer, listening to music, or playing videogames. Needless to say, he does not get his perfect day very often!

 

No advice for you, just empathy.

Michelle T

[Ellie]

that they don't want to learn what *their parents* want them to does not meant they don't want to learn.

 

You have to decide whether you're willing to unschool or some other less-than-traditional method and let your dc learn differently, or you have to decide that they need more direction than that and require certain things to be done. In the second case, you can't fault the child for not wanting to do the work, even while you make him do it for his own good.

[Tracey in TX]

DS was like this until recently. In K-3 he struggled to learn b/c lack of interest. By 10 year old he had some interest in academics. By 5th grade (11y/o) the light clicked on and he told me "Mom, I can't learn fast enough." Words of beauty and my reason to homeschool him.

Like introducing foods to a baby, we kept insisting he attempt subjects despite lack of interest and comprehension. He dug in his heels and did the least amount possible, but I repeatedly forced him to complete work. I guess it worked to the next stage. (Hoping this academic school year is just as good.)

 

I would insist DS do all work, whether or not he's interested. Like veggies a child doesn't want to eat, it's necessary. He has to be exposed to the various subjects to know what's available, and certain information is required to be learned. After the foundation work is complete, let him draw, paint, sculpt to his heart's content.

[Brindee]

I wouldn't let him have ANY tv or computer for awhile. Schoolwork can't compete with those things. After being off those things awhile, they start coming up with other "healthier" interests.

 

That's just what I did, and it helped! It would just be until he starts doing his part to learn. And it would be so you can figure out what his real interests are. You may have to nudge him different directions for awhile until he finds things. He can't just watch tv and play computer when he's a grown-up, so starting now to think about those things would help him maybe start finding direction.....

[5wolfcubs]

My oldest who is 13 is like this too. For years and years (we've always homeschooled) I've tried to make school interesting and fun and meaningful and do-able for her. I have never been successful in making school any of those things for her. This year I decided no more stress or struggle for either of us.

 

She is doing "the basics" academically -- see my signature line. That leaves her plenty of time to draw and read and work out and volunteer at a farm and be out-of-doors. Those are her things. My new motto for her is the Mark Twain quote:

 

I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.

 

I will school her until she graduates...but that is not her education. She has to educate herself.

[Anne]

If he is watching two hours of tv per day plus 1/2 hour of computer time daily, I think he's getting WAY too much screen time.

 

I would do as Brindee suggests - eliminate all screen time for the forseeable future - with the possible exception of a family movie night or something like that.

 

I do believe that some kids need to be helped to find their interests, and you might need to be more proactive with your son than with another child. I think eliminating the area of "easy gratification" will help him with some motivation to find an interest.

 

Anne

[Plaid Dad]

I have to agree with Anne that that's an awful lot of screen time. I would eliminate it all for at least six months and then re-evaluate. Actually, if it were my child, I'd eliminate both forms of entertainment, period. We don't own a TV, and it's one of the best parenting decisions we ever made. Some kids really can't handle any electronic entertainment without getting sucked in. I would not count on a child who is behaving the way you described to self-regulate when it comes to screen time.

 

It's hard to know what else might be going on without knowing more about the situation, but if eliminating the distraction of electronics doesn't help, you might consider having him evaluated to see if there's some reason he's unable to focus for more than a few minutes, even on something he enjoys. My dw has a little cousin who is getting behavioral vision therapy through his school, as it turned out his lack of focus and other academic problems had to do with a vision disorder.

[5wolfcubs]

I have to agree with Anne that that's an awful lot of screen time.

:iagree: I missed the 2 hours of TV a day. I'm not sure if I just glossed over it or if I read it as 2 hours/weekend. My kids watch no TV at all.

 

My dw has a little cousin who is getting behavioral vision therapy through his school, as it turned out his lack of focus and other academic problems had to do with a vision disorder.

My dd does have a vision problem -- years of vision therapy and 2 surgeries have corrected it as well as it will ever be. Whether she'll be able to pass a driving test remains to be seen. This was a huge impact on her disliking school in the early years. However, even if she had perfect vision, her brain just isn't wired with the same academic-ness as her younger siblings.

 

TV/computer could be playing a huge part and eliminating them both, as you & your dh have thought, might make the difference.

 

When you said "I'm curious as to what your 10-year-olds are doing for work" -- did you mean schoolwork, chores, or meaningful service?

[Rhondabee]

Everything I read about homeschooling talks about children having a natural desire to learn. Well, my oldest doesn't. Nothing interests him. He hates every subject we are studying. He fights me every time I ask him to write, read, do anything. The only thing he wants to do is watch TV and play computer games. During the week he is limited to 1/2 of computer time per day and he usually watches about 2 hours total of TV during the day. Dh and I think we should eliminate it for him altogether.

 

Anyone who has BTDT with advice, I would be interested in any thoughts!

 

 

I could probably have written exactly the same thing. Well, maybe I would have put "dislikes" instead of "hates every subject" - but that sort of gets to the gist of my thoughts:

 

What you say here I can take two completely ways: One, I can see myself writing this after a particularly "bad" day at school. One of those days when eyes get rolled, every assignment is met with a sigh and takes 2 or 3 times as long as it should, and perhaps a comment comparing our homeschool to someone else's schooling experience leaves me feeling completely inadequate.

 

But, in my most honest moments, I have to admit that those are the days that *I* allow to deteriorate into "one of those kind of days". I've noticed that when the day is going downhill, it's because I'd rather ignore the behavior hoping it will go away, and so it builds. But when I'm on top of my game, and sprinkle happiness and optimism into our day, and nip the negativity in the bud, and I don't allow myself to get all bent out of shape just because things aren't going according to plan - well, it's not that *none* of those behaviors happen - but I am not so affected by them. I don't take them personally. I deal with them in the moment, and don't let them infect the rest of the day.

 

It's very easy for me to say, "Well, this kid just watches entirely too much TV," (and, in my case, blame my dh for being the tv-and-video game "addict" he is). It's much more difficult for me to accept what I cannot change, and then change *me*. I'm not saying that you *shouldn't* get rid of your TV - especially if your dh thinks that's a good idea. I'm just giving you my honest assessment of myself.

 

OTOH, maybe there is a huge amount of true "hate" and true "fighting" going on in your house. One thing that has come to my attention IRL lately is that I live a very sheltered life! I really wouldn't know what to say that would be helpful in such a situation - only that I'll say a prayer that such is not yours, and trust that God will send you whatever help you need.

 

:001_smile:

Rhonda

[jmgconner]

Everything I read about homeschooling talks about children having a natural desire to learn. Well, my oldest doesn't. Nothing interests him. He hates every subject we are studying. He fights me every time I ask him to write, read, do anything. The only thing he wants to do is watch TV and play computer games. During the week he is limited to 1/2 of computer time per day and he usually watches about 2 hours total of TV during the day. Dh and I think we should eliminate it for him altogether.

 

I guess the only subject he shows an inkling of interest in is art. He does like to draw and draws well. He likes looking at other paintings and copying them. But once it starts to turn into work (as in more than 5 minutes) he doesn't want to do it. He can focus when he chooses to. He takes tae kwon do and I think that has helped some.

 

Also, I'm curious as to what your 10-year-olds are doing for work. I want to know if I'm expecting enough of my son. Part of the problem could be that I haven't been pushing him enough and making him do the work he should be doing so I've helped him develop these lazy habits.

 

Anyone who has BTDT with advice, I would be interested in any thoughts!

 

 

You've described my 12 yo DS. He loves to draw, but as soon as it's required, he wants nothing to do with it. Thankfully, he likes to read, but it's a struggle to get him to read something that is not twaddle.

 

TV and computer games - my DS would be in hog heaven if he got 2 hours a day of TV. He loves to play video games, play computer games, and watch TV. We try not to turn on the TV during the week days, but it's going to be on quite a bit over the next few weeks - I like to watch the Tour de France.

 

Chores - there are some good threads here about chores. My DS must do all the dishes (put them in and take them out of the dishwasher). He takes out the trash and recycling, mows the yard/shovels the driveway, wash the shower every Friday. I do all his laundry if it makes it to the laundry basket. I ask him to vacuum his room once a week, but I haven't been diligent about making him get that done.

[farmgirlinwv]

My dd just turned 11 and she does not love learning either. I think that I have also inadvertently encouraged lazy habits. She has some learning issues that fueled that. I am changing that though. We are doing summer school, much to her displeasure! She is waaaay behind in math and her penmanship is awful! I think some children are naturally good learners, but others need to be forced into it. Education is a discipline, not a good time. She does enjoy crafts, geography, and science though.

[Ashleen]

My younger son is that way. It was a huge surprise to me because his older brother loves learning (he's curled up on the couch right now reading a book about the Bill of Rights that he checked out of the library on his own). My older son has always had tons of things he wants to learn and he's a total bookworm. I was patting myself on the back at how his love of learning was obviously the result of being homeschooled, but then along comes his brother who could care less about anything academic.

 

My younger son does have interests: he likes action movies, video games, and Food Network. His goals in life include being a stunt man in fighting movies, being a video game tester, or being a chef with his own Food Network show and several cookbooks. At least chef is a doable career that he would hopefully enjoy even if he never gets his own show. He's actually in the kitchen right now going through my ingredients to see how I can make a more interesting lunch.

 

But ask him to read, or write, or do math, or study history (with the exception of knights and explorers) and he balks. He is never going to be a bookworm and he never sits still. Homeschooling has not made him academically inclined and I'm not sure anything could. In a past era he would have been a warrior or a knight, but definitely not a scholar.

[Anne]

Ashleen, am I right in thinking your younger son is just seven? If that is so, I want to encourage you that he may very well surprise you greatly in the future! Especially if you continue to allow him to be as active as he needs to be! I had daughters, but the same combination of an older one who was academically advanced and a younger one who appeared to be a real space princess! ;)

 

Somewhere around 12 or 13, she matured and things began to click. Now she's in college and doing very well.

 

All that to say - I bet your son has many hidden strengths waiting to develop at the proper time - what you see now may not be what you see later!!

 

Anne

[Cricket]

Thanks for all the great replies! At least I know we aren't alone in this struggle. Ds is a hard worker when it comes to chores or any physical. Now that we are managing this RV park, he and his brother do an hour of outside chores everyday plus they do a few chores in the house and practice their tae kwon do at least 1/2 hour everyday. We figure he is learning discipline through physical means. Now if we could just get him to discipline his brain the same way. :001_smile: Dh and I had a talk last night. We agree that he will never be a bookish, academic person and we need to keep channeling that physical energy. Ds has said before that he would like to be a landscaper. He is artistic and a hard worker so we could seen him be successful in that.

 

But he also needs to read and write! :001_smile: We will keep at it. Sometimes the struggle is too much for me and I'm guilty of letting him get away with slacking off in his studies. Cadam, I've been guilty of the same things with my ds--second guessing myself about what I'm expecting of him and then backing down when I should be standing firm. And Rhonda, if I was honest, I would have to admit that I often allow it to deteriorate instead of being on top of it.

 

That is what I meant when I wondered what other 10 year old were doing. Is it really too much to expect him to write his own narrations 2-3 times a week? He also does very little reading on his own. For history he listens to the reading on Librivox but I make him follow along in the text. A couple of times each week he has to write a few sentences using his spelling words. That is really all the writing I have required. Is that expecting too little?

 

We have quiet time every afternoon and the choice is either read or sleep. He always picks the easiest books like Frog and Toad. I was reading everything I could get my hands on at that age. I loved biographies and anything having to do with history. Ds did tell me once that he would rather read science books than fiction. But then he would never find a science book he wanted to check out at the library. They weren't easy enough. *sigh* We will keep on though! Thanks for the thoughts! We will see how today goes. :001_smile:

[Ashleen]

I was reading everything I could get my hands on at that age.

 

Me too. But I think one of the worst things I've done as a homeschooler (and maybe as a mother) is expect my kids to be like I was at their ages. I was originally attracted to homeschooling because I personally would have loved reading Little House on the Prairie sprawled across my bed instead of going to school. But my boys are never going to be me. And I don't think they'll ever love Little House on the Prairie (or Pippi Longstocking or The Secret Garden). And unlike my lazy self, my younger son would never dream of sprawling across his bed in the middle of the afternoon. If he takes to bed with a book, you can assume he's running a fever.

[Brindee]

My younger son does have interests: he likes action movies, video games, and Food Network. His goals in life include being a stunt man in fighting movies, being a video game tester, or being a chef with his own Food Network show and several cookbooks. At least chef is a doable career that he would hopefully enjoy even if he never gets his own show. He's actually in the kitchen right now going through my ingredients to see how I can make a more interesting lunch.

 

But ask him to read, or write, or do math, or study history (with the exception of knights and explorers) and he balks. He is never going to be a bookworm and he never sits still. Homeschooling has not made him academically inclined and I'm not sure anything could. In a past era he would have been a warrior or a knight, but definitely not a scholar.

He sounds like my middle child! What I highlighted in red was my ds! Your ds just turned 7, right? My ds was the same way....TOTALLY NOT interested in academics or reading. He turned 7 in September, and in November, was reading very slowly and stumblingly (is that a word? :001_huh:). In January he was suddenly interested, and went from barely reading, to devouring books within a couple of weeks, literally! I was AMAZED! My one that I thought the same things for is now a TOTAL bookworm! He still devours books! He LOVES cooking, and has thought of being a chef. He loves action/spy type movies. He and dh get those and watch them together.

 

Over the years I had him run around the house 3 times, or up and down the driveway a few times to help get the excess energy used up. He did better after that!

 

So, don't write your little one off yet! He could very well come around and be a bookworm chef after all! :001_smile:

[Rhondabee]

That is what I meant when I wondered what other 10 year old were doing. Is it really too much to expect him to write his own narrations 2-3 times a week? He also does very little reading on his own. For history he listens to the reading on Librivox but I make him follow along in the text. A couple of times each week he has to write a few sentences using his spelling words. That is really all the writing I have required. Is that expecting too little?

 

We have quiet time every afternoon and the choice is either read or sleep. He always picks the easiest books like Frog and Toad. I was reading everything I could get my hands on at that age. I loved biographies and anything having to do with history. Ds did tell me once that he would rather read science books than fiction. But then he would never find a science book he wanted to check out at the library. They weren't easy enough. *sigh* We will keep on though! Thanks for the thoughts! We will see how today goes. :001_smile:

 

My 10yo is going into 5th, so I'll try to answer as far as what we did last year. (But, so much depends on *how* you're doing school, and how many subjects. Please don't think I believe this is the way is *has* to be!)

 

As far as written work, I had him copy his spelling words every day, copy his Latin every day, write in Grammar (but the amount varies - I shoot for 3/4 of a page), he writes paragraph narrations in history 2-3 times a week, and in science after an experiment (or whenever the mood just hits me - LOL!).

 

But, I do help him come up with topic sentences and supporting ideas. I'll write his topic sentence in the middle of the page, draw a circle around it, and then put the supporting points around it. (I don't just tell him what they are, but try to help him brainstorm them on his own. ETA: Ok, sometimes I *do* say, "Just trust me. Write this!" ;))

 

At this point, I would rather see a well-constructed paragraph about *one* aspect of the lesson than a mumble-jumbled page-long list of facts. Then, he takes our "rough draft" and uses it to create his narration. (Sometimes I have to give him some ideas of how to start - I rattle them off as fast as I can, so that hopefully whatever he comes up with is at least partially his!)

 

I think reading along with his textbook is great. But, have you considered changing his free-reading time to a Read-Aloud time? My 10yo also chooses easy-peasy books that he was reading in 2nd grade. But, reading aloud is what turned my 13yo into a sometimes-reader (Harry Potter, Pendragon, anything Dungeons & Dragonish - not the classics by any means). I started with this list from Amazon called "Great Books for Boys Aged 8-12":

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/37F6V8XRI70V4/ref=sr_5_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1068837490&sr=5-1

 

There's a lot of just really fun books on the list. I have also added in historical fiction (ala Sonlight) as read-alouds during school. Since we were reading out loud for about an hour, and reading "literature" last year, I didn't have a "free-reading" time. Now, I can't tell you this has turned my 10yo into a reader yet (like his older brother), but it *is* showing him that books are doorways to other worlds; and, I feel better knowing that he is at least getting exposed to something other than "Flat Stanley".

 

With the narrations, what I'm noticing is that more and more often, he doesn't *want* my help. So, I'm hoping that the same thing will happen with reading, too. Personally, and completely unprofessionally, I think there is a drive to be more independent which comes after p*berty hits. Very similar to how a toddler goes through the "Me do it!" stage. Once that initial hormone surge was over, my older ds really seemed to mature over-night - and that's when he finally started taking an interest in doing well with school, even if he didn't find it "fun".

 

:001_smile:

Rhonda

[Ashleen]

He sounds like my middle child! What I highlighted in red was my ds! Your ds just turned 7, right? My ds was the same way....TOTALLY NOT interested in academics or reading. He turned 7 in September, and in November, was reading very slowly and stumblingly (is that a word? :001_huh:). In January he was suddenly interested, and went from barely reading, to devouring books within a couple of weeks, literally! I was AMAZED! My one that I thought the same things for is now a TOTAL bookworm! He still devours books! He LOVES cooking, and has thought of being a chef. He loves action/spy type movies. He and dh get those and watch them together.

 

Over the years I had him run around the house 3 times, or up and down the driveway a few times to help get the excess energy used up. He did better after that!

 

So, don't write your little one off yet! He could very well come around and be a bookworm chef after all! :001_smile:

 

That's encouraging. Actually, if he turned into a bookworm, I would fall on the floor in shock.

[Robin Hood]

My almost 10yo is like that but I'll be more clear. She hates the learning "process" that is available to her. She loves knowing and discovering. So, we prod along and I keep looking for what suits her style. I've made a few switches along along the way. She is so outside the box that it has made me get outside the box to help her and it's pretty cool out there. One thing we did when she was 3 was unhook the cable. We rarely turn the tv on now and I don't yet allow electronics.

 

It's harder to stay with tried and true curriculums with these sorts of kids, and it just about breaks the spirit of our entire household to tract with them, but my nutty way of thinking is that God created this child to be this way. It's up to me to figure her out, help her to see how the world is run and encourage her in her special gifts. She marches to the beat of her own drum, that is not removeable, changable, reversable, or any other able. YOU gotta figure out what makes him tick.

 

An accidental find for me was in the library. As I took my kids there to read and find their own books, I found some jr high biographies on Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein and others that I took home and read for myself. I saw my dd personality in those pages and was inspired. She no where near has those brains, but the personality? Way to close for comfort. So I am taking that information of how they learned and trying to apply it to our home with some positive results, albiet small, yet forward moving.

 

 

On the other hand, getting her to do chores and other life skills is not an easy task. We just keep prodding. I have had to give up a lot on her account in order to make her accountable and it is still not happening. We just keep on prodding. Bribes don't work, punishment never has nor has deprivation. She is comfortable with her self as is. I have to turn a deaf ear to her complaints as I make her pull and pick up weeds, feed the animals, clean up after her cooking experiments etc, but if I don't answer her she does the work.

 

I don't know if that info is what you wanted. I did have her tested; perfect health, vision, acute hearing ability, she is a slow processor but perfectly capable and mildly gifted. She is a divergent thinker, which I think slows her processor down, but it's not a bad thing.

[Cricket]

I think reading along with his textbook is great. But, have you considered changing his free-reading time to a Read-Aloud time? My 10yo also chooses easy-peasy books that he was reading in 2nd grade. But, reading aloud is what turned my 13yo into a sometimes-reader (Harry Potter, Pendragon, anything Dungeons & Dragonish - not the classics by any means). I started with this list from Amazon called "Great Books for Boys Aged 8-12":

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/37F6V8XRI70V4/ref=sr_5_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1068837490&sr=5-1

 

There's a lot of just really fun books on the list. I have also added in historical fiction (ala Sonlight) as read-alouds during school. Since we were reading out loud for about an hour, and reading "literature" last year, I didn't have a "free-reading" time. Now, I can't tell you this has turned my 10yo into a reader yet (like his older brother), but it *is* showing him that books are doorways to other worlds; and, I feel better knowing that he is at least getting exposed to something other than "Flat Stanley".

 

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out. I have started a time after lunch (about 1/2 an hour) of listening to audiobooks. The three older ones sit quietly at the table and color or draw. While they do this, they listen to a chapter in Heidi (that was one on the recommended free reading list on Ambleside). Ds did enjoy some of the fiction books we read together this year--The Little Duke, Understood Betsy, and The Wind in the Willows. He really likes The Wind in the Willows. Maybe it is all the descriptive language combined with his vivid imagination. This was the second time we had read it together. He really likes Pilgrim's Progress too. That kind of surprised me. That is a difficult read but we only read small sections at a time. And maybe it helps that they are reading it together in his Sunday School class as well. I haven't gotten my 10 yo to read Flat Stanley once. :lol:

 

Hmmm, something just hit me. Maybe part of his dislike of reading has to do with the fact that it is a solitary activity. He needs to have interaction with people. It is definitely a need with him. Me? Lock me in a room with dusty books and I'd be happy for days, weeks even. For him, it would be absolute torture. Dh would be happy as can be living the life of a hermit on his mountain in Idaho. Ds has been very social since he was a baby. He fussed and fussed if I carried him facing me. He had to be facing out so he could see what was going on around him.

[Peela]

 

Hmmm, something just hit me. Maybe part of his dislike of reading has to do with the fact that it is a solitary activity. He needs to have interaction with people. It is definitely a need with him. Me? Lock me in a room with dusty books and I'd be happy for days, weeks even. For him, it would be absolute torture. Dh would be happy as can be living the life of a hermit on his mountain in Idaho. Ds has been very social since he was a baby. He fussed and fussed if I carried him facing me. He had to be facing out so he could see what was going on around him.

 

My 12yo also wouldn't say he loves he schooling,and he tends to be rather manipulative about getting out of it.

However I want to give you some hope about the reading considering what you have been saying. I have read aloud to my son since he was small and it was very important to me that he love reading- and he didn't for a long time. I kept reading aloud, every day, about an hour. And eventually he grabbled the book out of my hands at the end our our reading session and asked if he could read it himself. He was 9.5. He has been a reader ever since, and I never thought he would be up to that point.

 

My kids do not enjoy audi on CDs at all- they really complain bitterly if I make them listen to one- at the moment its just Shakespeare and they are accepting because I dont read Shakespeare as well as the actors do :). They want ME to do the reading aloud, and so I do.

 

I was just talking to my daughter about her subjects for next term and we were discussing how much she dislikes doing languages on her own, and I realised, this is a kid who needs interaction and socialising for some subjects. So I have shifted Latin and French to our "do together" time rather than "independent" time. She also thrives with all her out of the house subjects- she attends a science class, she used to do Latin iin a class- she thrives with classes.

I wouldnt under estimate the difference in enthusiasm if a subject is done with mum. My younger has learning difficulties and it makes the world of difference if I am just there, hovering. I at least always stay in the room.