Spinning in circles.... SL, HOD, or MFW 2nd and 4th grade

[MiniBlondes]

This is going to be our first year. I want a program that is easy to follow, fun, and hands on. I don't want anything too complicated because I fear that it will frustrate me and my DD's (but mostly me).

 

I found a great deal on a SL B+C Core online and I bought it. But now I'm paging through the IG's and I'm not so sure. There's alot of "Do this here but supplement this if ABC or that if XYZ or this totally different thing if LMNOP." :001_huh: Do what? It's all very confusing.

 

Because of this, I'm considering switching to MFW or HOD. I liked them both the best before I bought the SL but for some reason I had allowed other peoples opinions of SL cloud my judgement. I'm not saying that I dislike SL now but it's kind of intimidating me a little.

 

So... my questions are these.

 

- For those of you that know about all 3 programs, are MFW or HOD just as complicated as SL?

 

- Perhaps none of them are complicated and it's just my newbie nerves taking over. Thoughts?

 

- If you had to pick one of the 3 which would you pick and why?

[Chelli]

I haven't used either MFW or Sonlight, but I have looked through them quite a bit. I chose HOD because I loved their book choices, progression of skills, hands on activities, and notebooking.

 

I didn't choose Sonlight because of the lack of hands on activities. My crafty dd needs those things. While she and I both love reading, I am not good at coming up with the craft/project type things, so I vetoed Sonlight for that reason. Plus I wanted more Biblical integration than what they offered.

 

Now my choices were down to MFW and HOD. Ultimately I went with HOD because I liked their core book choices better than MFW. I know that MFW has their book basket (which is nice!), but I have had no problem finding plenty of supplemental reading for my dd using the library's card catalog. Another reason I chose HOD is because my children are too far apart grade level wise to make combining enjoyable, so I chose to have each child working at the level they need to be.

 

With your daughters you could easily start them in HOD Bigger (which we are finishing up this year) and have your older use the extension books. Then just let them progress through the HOD guides together.

 

Ultimately, though, I think either MFW or HOD would fit your criteria. It just depends on which you like better.

[Irishmommy]

For that age I would go with MFW. We have used both SL and MFW. I think that MFW is a perfect blend of books and crafts. SL A was too much for my Ker. She wasn't ready for all the chapter books in SL.

[woolybear]

I haven't seen HOD or MFW in real life, but I find SL to be very easy to use. If you ignore the "supplement this if ........" does it still seem confusing or overwhelming?

[ByGrace3]

I know all about spinning on the crazy cycle of history choosing! :lol: I also looked at all three, but I chose SL for next year. Why?

 

-while MFW always appeals to me, I don't like their K or first grade programs, we don't want to do US history before world, I think the spines for the older cylces are above my young ones heads and won't be enough when they get older. I also have other things we use for Bible and science.

 

- I didn't choose HOD mainly bc it would be impossible to combine my two dc. Also, I don't like the all in one component. If your child is above or behind in any subject it would otherwise off the whoe schedule. Again, I have other Bible, science, LA, and math I want.

 

I chose SL not because I won't tweak (I most certainly will!) ;) but bc it is closest to what I want. I love the books, and like having them all on the shelf (the library and i don't get along!) :tongue_smilie:like the schedule and notes, and can easily add notebooking, coloring pages and some hands on projects.

 

Honestly, I have decided at this point there is no perfect curriculum, there is only curriculum you can make perfect for you. Decide what you want and make it work for you.

 

You could easily add SOTW AG for projects/hands on for core B and C. I also have a chart of supplemental activities on my blog for core C.

[SorrelZG]

I only have experience with HOD. I had originally decided against MFW after seeing the teacher guides at a homeschool consignment store. If you have such a store near you I definitely recommend checking it for guides to preview in total before purchasing but I realize that isn't always possible. For first year, just getting started, needing my hand held AND the individual way my brain functions - the HOD teacher guides were the best for me BUT didn't work out because my child was ultimately not placed in the right guide (and perhaps wouldn't have fit into any at that stage). That will make a huge difference between success and failure with HOD.

 

So, my recommendation is check out both the MFW and HOD guides to see which layout seems simplest for you (it seems that one either makes total sense while the other is overwhelming and/or confusing and the whole population can almost be divided between the two camps) AND if you lean toward HOD, make very sure you have correct placement for your children.

[Samiam]

See, I could NOT figure HOD. Their site was so convoluted to me. I felt like I spent hours, several days, and still had no idea what it was.

 

I used MFW for two years. I found that even though they did include several activities, hands-on stuff, I didn't like alot that they did. I ended up subbing it with other stuff I found online. I also found I did not use their science or bible. And I started to realize the book basket is a HUGE pain to me. The library stinks, I had a hard time getting to the library and when I did, they never had the things I needed. I found myself wishing there were more good, read-alouds scheduled. My boys seemed to really enjoy that, but if they weren't scheduled, I sometimes forgot to do it.

 

So I am going with Sonlight. It has the read-alouds we want. It does offer some hands-on activities, but I also got SOTW and the AG for that, which is all about hands-on. Plus I know there are several sites out there that offer hands on ideas for Sonlight. We are not the first that wanted those with Sonlgiht, and thankfully others have done it and share it!

[Irishmommy]

We don't really use their Bible either, but their Bible was really strong for Adventures.

[3peasinapod]

I know all about spinning on the crazy cycle of history choosing! :lol: I also looked at all three, but I chose SL for next year. Why?

 

-while MFW always appeals to me, I don't like their K or first grade programs, we don't want to do US history before world, I think the spines for the older cylces are above my young ones heads and won't be enough when they get older. I also have other things we use for Bible and science.

 

- I didn't choose HOD mainly bc it would be impossible to combine my two dc. Also, I don't like the all in one component. If your child is above or behind in any subject it would otherwise off the whoe schedule. Again, I have other Bible, science, LA, and math I want.

 

I chose SL not because I won't tweak (I most certainly will!) ;) but bc it is closest to what I want. I love the books, and like having them all on the shelf (the library and i don't get along!) :tongue_smilie:like the schedule and notes, and can easily add notebooking, coloring pages and some hands on projects.

 

Honestly, I have decided at this point there is no perfect curriculum, there is only curriculum you can make perfect for you. Decide what you want and make it work for you.

 

You could easily add SOTW AG for projects/hands on for core B and C. I also have a chart of supplemental activities on my blog for core C.

 

I could have written this post myself. These reasons are nearly exactly why I chose SL over MFW and HOD. I looked into all of them extensively (couldn't make up my mind!), but went with SL because it was a good base. I have figured out I will always want to tweak, and I just want a base to work off that.

 

HOD seemed to boxed too me, leaving no room for the child's different ability levels.

 

MFW looked good, but looked rather dry in the later years, and it seemed to me (I have NOT used it) that some of the books in the cycles were just over the heads of the youngers. I didn't want to do that much work to choose which books to use for the younger children in the cycle. I figured if I was going to have to read multiple levels of books, it was just as much work as doing 2 cores of SL.

 

I like to add activities and web sites that I like and I know my children will like. For some reason, if a curriculum schedules these things for me and I don't like them (silly, too much work, etc.), I feel bad not doing them because I paid for the guide. That's why we like SL.

 

B/C is a whirlwind and isn't a good indicator of the other cores in SL. It is so squished that some people can't take it. :tongue_smilie: I am loving the cores more as we are moving through them, and I can't wait until everything is integrated in D.

[edeemarie]

I would say if you already have Sonlight, try it for about a month- you might surprise yourself and actually really like it:)

 

This is our experience with each of them. We used Sonlight in preschool (4/5) and as much as I enjoyed the book my ds was just too active for them. He needed some more activities than just reading books.

 

We used HOD for 4 years, and for the most part enjoyed it, but there were a few negatives. My dd loves science and I feel their science is pretty weak. I was also finding that many of the "extras" were not getting done (completely my fault, but some I just didn't see spending time doing). We did not use their math or spelling. I like how she uses living books for history, but I almost wish there was a main history spine to follow along. There was a timeline to put together, but I just wish there was more. In the end we left HOD after finishing Bigger because by next year I was going to be running 3 different HOD programs and I knew that just wouldn't happen!

 

This year we are going to be starting MFW ECC. I am excited about it and I love the book basket, but you really could just put a certain subject in your library's catalog and find just as many books (I found this out while I was searching for the book basket books using our library's catalog!). So I am hoping for a good year, but I don't have any first hand experience to share yet.

 

But really, there is no perfect curriculum out there. I know being your first year you want it to be perfect, but probably no matter what you choose there will be something about it you would like to chance. So really I would just give Sonlight a good try just to see- after probably about a month or so (maybe even a week or so!) you will have a much better idea:)

[Sue G in PA]

It sounds like SL is confusing you and based on that I would probably advise you to sell it or spend some time this summer "getting to know it". Does that make sense? The learning curve on some of these programs can be steep...especially if this is your first year homeschooling. I have never used SL but have used both MFW and HOD...still using them actually (MFW for high school and HOD for the others). Both programs are what I would call "open and go". There is minimal planning. You really can't go wrong with either. By your siggy, you have a 2nd and 4th grader? I have successfully combined those ages into one HOD Guide. However, it depends on the academic skill level of you dc. It is VERY important to place EACH CHILD correctly when using HOD. Otherwise, it can be very frustrating. Take a look at the placement charts on the website. It could be that they would place squarely in Bigger Hearts and that is a fabulous year! Not to knock MFW, but if you went with MFW your 2nd grader might not get as much out of it if you started with their 5 year cycle. AND, Adventures would be a bit too "easy" for your 4th grader (again, depends on their skill level in the core subjects). So, those are my thoughts, FWIW. Not knocking SL...just haven't used it so I can't advise. I *would* recommend combining your dc if at all possible (in areas other than math, reading and la)...whatever program you decide to use. :001_smile: HTH

[Alpac]

I use MFW and really enjoy it. It is not for everyone, I realize, but it works here. We have completed ECC, CTG, and RTR. This upcoming year (Exp1850) will be the first year that my older three will be officially combined into one program. My youngest of the 3 (I also have a 21 month old) has done K and 1st joining in with his big brothers when he could, but this year he will completely fold into the history cycle with a 2nd/3rd grade supplement of books for his age. Of course, they will all be on their individual levels of math and LA. And one of them is Jr. High so he is doing Apologia Physical science where the other two will do a semester of Apologia Botany and a semester of animal study. We are very excited!

 

I have no experience with the other two choices, except that I did buy the youngest HOD level. I can't remember the name, but I do remember that I did not like the way the TM was laid out. I must be a grid girl and just didn't know it at the time. (MFW TM's schedule is in grid form.)

 

I did look at Sonlight at a convention the year we began hs'ing when my oldest was starting K. It kind of overwhelmed me with all the books. I love to read and had a desire for my children to love to read, and so far they do, especially my oldest two, but wow! at the books! I have heard a friend of mine who uses Sonlight say that they never finish a core and never read all the books. And I have heard others say that there are not enough hands-on projects in Sonlight. But that is all feedback from others. I have never used it so I shouldn't be giving an opinion on it.

 

That is my limited exposure to the other two so take it for what its worth... not much. ;)

 

Just wanted to give you one more opinion to get your head spinning even more!:lol:

 

But really I would do the one that I was the most drawn to. For us, we prayed about which curriculum to switch to. (I started out using something else completely.) And I was strongly drawn to MFW, and it works for us!

[Donna A.]

My vote is to use MFW, which can be used flexibly in many ways (lots of reasons we love MFW, especially in the elementary years... you can do a search of my posts), or you can go right down the grid and just "do the next thing". You'll become more comfortable with flexibility and learning how to pick and choose as time goes by.... but having the weekly grid like it is makes it easy to "go right down the grid".

 

If you don't have a great library option for Book Basket (which is completely optional, anyway), then buy the books in the corresponding HOD core and use those instead of the library. It's the perfect marriage. ;)

 

One of the reasons we chose MFW over SL is because SL schedules *too many* books at one time. It's just overkill, IMO. And that's coming from a family of at least two voracious readers, and three who are a bit more choosy. For some kids (and families), less is more. Then when you have an option such as Book Basket to get more titles as time and interest allow, it's a treat. :) (P.S. Book Basket also includes educational movie titles that go along with a lot of the Bible, history and science topics that you're studying.)

[Donna A.]

Oh, and I wanted to say that I agree with the poster who said MFW Adventures might be too easy for your 4th grader.

 

However, when I went through ADV with my oldest two, who were 10 and 7 at the time (MFW had just come out with ADV and didn't have Expl-1850 yet), it worked out great because it was very easy to beef up for my 10yo. I assigned her more reading from Book Basket, including a lot of biographies, which she read independently and then narrated to me. I also had her do more notebooking pages than the 7yo. Those extra notebooking pages were in the form of either written narrations, illustrations, or whatever she wanted to do, really.

 

Of course every child always does math and LA at their own level, anyway. That's an easy thing to plug in on the grid. (Although MFW has recommendations for those subjects if you want to use them... but you can use whatever you like.)

 

All that said, ECC (Exploring Countries & Cultures) is a great place to start, too! You wouldn't HAVE to do American history first. In ECC, they'll get some American history near the beginning, as you study the continent of North America right after the Intro unit. Between Book Basket, annual holidays that come up on the calendar, real-life events, museums/field trips, etc., American history is a very easy subject to cover at this age. You could even get a couple of the books that are scheduled in ADV and read those while doing ECC. Lots of ways to do it. :001_smile:

[Alpac]

I went back and reread your original post and wanted to add some more comments.

 

MFW is easy to use.

 

The TM is open and go. The author provides a list of any needed materials (for crafts/science/projects) at the top of the page at the beginning of each week so you can add them to your grocery/store list. With the exception of one or two items (like beeswax) they were all easy to find and inexpensive.

 

She also has recommended books for each week listed in the back of the TM. Not only the titles but a brief overview of each book including recommended ages for the title. If there is any potential objectionable material, she gives a warning about that in the description so that you can decide if it is objectionable for you. There are also *'s besides the highly recommended books.

 

As Donna mentioned, MFW gives recommendations for math and LA. You can choose to use those or use what you like and what works for you.

 

For me, early in my hs'ing journey, I was drawn to the CM approach of learning, but I did not know enough about it and was scared to jump off into the unknown and away from the security of my traditional curriculum we were using at the time. I also liked the idea of unit studies and learning history in chronological order. Okay, cue the music.:nopity:And then I found MFW. Really, I got all three - the best of CM, unit studies, and classical - in one curriculum. And it had a TM to help guide me into the scary world of those three things.

 

So I would encourage you, if any of that appeals to you, seriously look at MFW.

[Mommy22alyns]

I have used SL and MFW. I greatly prefer MFW and it's also IMO easier to use. My girls thrive on activities, which SL lacked. We did Adventures last year and have ECC for the upcoming year.

 

I have looked at HOD several times and I can't make heads or tails of it. I also hear that it's harder to combine kids.

[ByGrace3]

This thread reminds me of how personal picking curricula is. Each family is different, has different goals, and different wants. When I was in the deep of this decision, I made a list of all I wanted out of a history curriculum, then I listed my options and listed what I liked and didn't like of each and compared this lists. I also prioritized them, what is most important for you, your non negotiables. Which meet more of your goals without too many negatives. That is the program that will be easiest for you to tweak for your goals.

 

If you list what you are wanting in a program, that might help others give more help "for you" instead of what works for "us". ;)

 

So, this thread just made me MFW curious again :lol: this happens often, but then I go and look at the package (this time I looked at Adventures) and I always feel as though I am missing something. There is not nearly as many "books" as I would want in a history program. Perhaps MFW seems spine heavy for me? I want more lit. I always think "that's it?" when I look at it. I know there is a book basket that you can add to flesh it out, but without that, it doesnt seem complete for me. I kow others are extremely happy with it, and perhaps in the 100 times I have looked at it online and at convention, I am missing something....just another vote for being sure a program is right for YOUR family, not someone else's.

 

Another thing I realized recently. For me, I need to know my weaknesses and find a curriculum that balances me. Some might be great at adding read alouds, so MFW which has notebooking and spines and hands on is perfect for them, bc they are going to add the read alouds. The person who is great at read alouds but not willing or able to add things like good discussions, notebooking, some projects if needed, SL will not be for them. I am classically minded. If it were purely up to me, we would be a straight WTM family, bt my dd is not thriving on that right now. She needs a little fluff, and I am terrible at adding fluff consistently (by fluff I mean no history read alouds, geography songs ... A little variety. :tongue_smilie:) I know I will add more historical lit, I will add a few projects, notebooking...bc I value those things, so I choose a curriculum that schedules that which I know I am not good at scheduling. hth's!

[campmom]

I just wanted to say that I used SL my first year Homeschooling and it was overwhelming. Also my dc did not like reading several different books at the same time. They begged just let me finish reading this one then start the next one. Thats how I would want to read them also, so I had to tweek the schedule.

I use MFW now and find it very easy to use and "just right" I buy some of the book basket books and get some from the library. I think it is easier to add more books than it is to try to decide what to leave out. I also like MFW's bible better than SL's.

I would start with adventures adding more for the 4th grader, by boys have loved learning American History. Or ECC if that is what you would prefer.

[Annie Laurie]

I'm a long time SL user and I find it really simple and straight forward, but maybe it just clicks with how my brain works. The SL forums might be able to help you figure it out, or if you have any questions I could answer, please lmk. I'm wondering if it has to do with it being used. What year is it? And was it sent to you already set up in the binder?

 

To make it less overwhelming, I take 9 weeks out at a time and put it in a smaller binder.

 

They just redid the IGs to make them more streamlined, maybe upgrading the IG would make it more doable for you.

 

As far as hands-on, they do have CDs now you can order that have hands-on ideas and Internet links to enhance the core.

 

I used MFW 1st and Adventures. They were both fun and I liked how everything was included on the schedule. But i didn't try any other levels because the book choices were too dry for us (streams of civilization for one) and the biblical content wasn't what I wanted.

 

I tried a lot of different curriculum before knowing what worked for me and my kids. Expect to do some experimenting in the beginning and don't stress over it for content subJects while your kids are young.

 

Eta: please excuse weird caps in places and lack of caps. Auto correct is doing weird things.

[Incognito]

I've only done this for one year, but I *think* what you are feeling is really just about figuring out how the SL instructor's guide works and what they have to offer. I used an old K IG last year, and have an old Core 1 (B) guide for this year. If you flip in a few weeks, you'll see that most weeks are just a simple chart with assigned readings and maybe one page of stuff to go along with it. I would keep the pages for each book we were reading folded and tucked in the book itself, instead of flipping around in the manual. FWIW the new IGs are not set up so that would be easy, and I don't like that. ;)

 

It seems more overwhelming and complicated when you are getting all the explanations and ideas for the books, but once you are into it, not so much.

 

Also, are the weekly tabs in there? Without them, the information is a lot more confusing/messy.

 

I haven't used MFW or HOD, but I did like SL enough to buy it again. I used it as a core+LA+science, but LA K doesn't have much, so I didn't really count that ;).

 

I liked the SL IG for my first year because it helped me get an idea of how much is "normal". I didn't want to burn out my kids, but I didn't want to be a slacker either (I was pregnant, so the possibility loomed large!). I found we didn't do it all at the same pace as the IG had scheduled out, but it kept me from falling way behind in anything in particular.

 

Maybe the reading will get heavier as we go up, but we had plenty of time to read literally hundreds of other picture books and a few other chapter books, as well as doing various other subjects besides this year. AND we did the 5 day schedule in a 4 day week AND did stuff like swimming, soccer, and ballet.

 

I hope that helps. If you have any questions, ask away or PM me. I'll be doing B alongside you this year (so slower but some of the same for the first bit).

[Annie Laurie]

Never mind, I was being redundant.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Annie Laurie