fluffybunny Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Ds (11) wrote the summary on a passage from Tom Sawyer in WWS. He wrote this: "Tom on Monday didn't want to go to school". I told him to write: "On Monday, Tom didn't want to go to school". But he is adamant the first one is correct. I can't explain why it isn't, but I just know it isn't. Can you please explain what the 'name' of the problem is? Is it "splitting infinitives"? If I have a "name" for this mistake, it might convince him. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Ds (11) wrote the summary on a passage from Tom Sawyer in WWS. He wrote this:"Tom on Monday didn't want to go to school". I told him to write: "On Monday, Tom didn't want to go to school". But he is adamant the first one is correct. I can't explain why it isn't, but I just know it isn't. Can you please explain what the 'name' of the problem is? Is it "splitting infinitives"? If I have a "name" for this mistake, it might convince him. Thank you I don't know that I agree it's an error. "On Monday" is an adverbial prepositional phrase telling when Tom didn't want to go to school. Adverbs generally have a lot of flexibility of placement in a sentence. One issue that you could mention is that the placement of the prepositional phrase right after a noun encourages the reader to interpret it as modifying the noun. In other words, we read it and think, "Tom on Monday". And that's not what he's intending. But that problem can be fixed by surrounding the phrase by commas: Tom, on Monday, didn't want to go to school. You are correct, of course that a more standard word order would be: On Monday, Tom didn't want to go to school. or Tom didn't want to go to school on Monday. But they aren't the only possibilities. I think it's great that he's playing around with non-standard word order. You could show him all the variations and encourage him to choose the one he likes best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I would tell him it was a misplaced modifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I would tell him it was a misplaced modifier. Yes. Depending on context, it COULD be correct with the commas, but without the commas, it is definitely INcorrect. (usage error) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wy_kid_wrangler04 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) . Edited June 14, 2012 by wy_kid_wrangler04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LillyMama Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) I don't know that I agree it's an error. "On Monday" is an adverbial prepositional phrase telling when Tom didn't want to go to school. Adverbs generally have a lot of flexibility of placement in a sentence. One issue that you could mention is that the placement of the prepositional phrase right after a noun encourages the reader to interpret it as modifying the noun. In other words, we read it and think, "Tom on Monday". And that's not what he's intending. But that problem can be fixed by surrounding the phrase by commas: Tom, on Monday, didn't want to go to school. You are correct, of course that a more standard word order would be: On Monday, Tom didn't want to go to school. or Tom didn't want to go to school on Monday. But they aren't the only possibilities. I think it's great that he's playing around with non-standard word order. You could show him all the variations and encourage him to choose the one he likes best. :iagree: This is exactly what was in my head, thank you for putting it into words. Modifying phrase also works. Edited June 13, 2012 by LillyMama nothing's worse than typos in a thread about grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffybunny Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Thank you so much! I like the 'misplaced modifier'. That should convince him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice in NJ Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Sarah, Just an FYI: info on infinitives (and splitting them): http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/627/03/ Peace, Janice Enjoy your little people Enjoy your journey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I don't like splitting the subject and the verb that way. Not sure what that is called. I like "misplaced modifier." It's more of an introductory phrase and those are usually at the beginning, separated by a comma or tacked on to the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I don't know that I agree it's an error. "On Monday" is an adverbial prepositional phrase telling when Tom didn't want to go to school. Adverbs generally have a lot of flexibility of placement in a sentence. One issue that you could mention is that the placement of the prepositional phrase right after a noun encourages the reader to interpret it as modifying the noun. In other words, we read it and think, "Tom on Monday". And that's not what he's intending. But that problem can be fixed by surrounding the phrase by commas: Tom, on Monday, didn't want to go to school. You are correct, of course that a more standard word order would be: On Monday, Tom didn't want to go to school. or Tom didn't want to go to school on Monday. But they aren't the only possibilities. I think it's great that he's playing around with non-standard word order. You could show him all the variations and encourage him to choose the one he likes best. I agree with this. It's good to vary where adverbial prepositions are placed, and I'd be glad that he was doing this. I would just help him with correct punctuation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 And how would diagramming this sentence help to identify the error? Curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 But they aren't the only possibilities. I think it's great that he's playing around with non-standard word order. You could show him all the variations and encourage him to choose the one he likes best. :iagree: with this. Rather than make this a battle of who is right, show him all the alternatives. It would be something for him to file in his mind for later use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 And how would diagramming this sentence help to identify the error? Curious... No, because the only error is in the punctuation of the sentence. The prepositional phrase in question modifies the verb no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieuog Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I absolutely agree with those who say it's not a grammatical error. It is definitely a rather marked word order. It might be interesting for your son to reflect on what he was aiming at when he made this very deliberate stylistic choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I absolutely agree with those who say it's not a grammatical error. It is definitely a rather marked word order. It might be interesting for your son to reflect on what he was aiming at when he made this very deliberate stylistic choice. I agree. This is not a misplaced modifier: there is no confusion about who/what it is modifying. It is a punctuation error. The biggest point, though, is to teach him how his word choice affects the meaning of the sentence. His sentence is slamming to a halt on "on Monday," which makes it very important. Did he mean "on Monday" to be the most important part of this sentence? If so, it is excellent (as long as he adds commas.) If not, show him the other places he could put "on Monday" and how that would change the sentence. I would also discuss, like you did. the conventional word order; then explain how altering conventional word order draws attention to certain aspects of the sentence - and the sentence itself - and how we need to think about whether that is what we intended or not. I think you have a fabulous conversation and learning opportunity opened up here. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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