pqr Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/05/31/has-amelia-earhart-anti-freckle-cream-jar-been-discovered/?test=latestnews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon H in IL Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Cool. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama_Rana Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 So she and Noonan may have lived on that island for months or even years after the crash? Wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I wonder if they'll ever be able to prove that it was her and Noonan. I guess if they find the plane. How scary though to be a castaway and to never be rescued. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 More http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/06/01/previously-dismissed-radio-signals-were-credible-transmissions-from-earhart/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I have wondered about this woman since I first heard her name when i was young. It was the first time my mom told me she wouldn't always be able to find me if I strayed too far from our yard!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saille Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 These stories are making me teary-eyed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 It's so sad to think that even with a ship nearby that was waiting for them, even with the radio transmissions giving her compass location, Morse code and further transmissions that nobody could find them. How long could they really survive on a deserted atoll? :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 These stories are making me teary-eyed! :iagree: :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Our family has a special interest in Amelia and I have followed these new stories with fascination. I find myself wondering what it was like and how long they actually lived. I keep thinking of Tom Hanks in Castaway. At least she and Noonan were together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calimom04 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 wow this is sad. It seems she really did try to be found!! I'm wondering why it took them this long to even get these details?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 We get updates because Amelia is a relative on my paternal grandfather's side. Not a super close relative...only a second cousin or second once removed or something...I can't rememember exactly. But, after my grandmother died, my dad became the contact for this side. My grandmother never knew her personally, but my grandfather and his brother met her a couple of times during her childhood...I really wish I could remember exactly how that shirt-tail relation works in the geneology. At any rate, it has been excruciatingly difficult to compile any evidence because her disappearance coincided with the heat up that lead to WWII in the Pacific. The Japanese had control of a number of these islands and it took years of diplomacy to get permission to visit the atolls in the area and dig. Very possibly the accusation from certain US persons that she and Noonan were taken captive and tortured to death by the Japanese did not make them feel warm and fuzzy about allowing the US into these places post war. Of course, there was speculation that She and Noonan were actually doing some spying for the Department of Navy and what not...know one really knows for sure as much of the information was classified. Spying or not, she was flying over some very uncertain territory and with the aid of the US Navy, US State Department, and various Department of Defense industries. It was a risky trip under any circumstances. It was risky squared when one considers the international tensions at that time. She made some bad decisions. She really should have layed over longer. The weather reports were not good enough to take the risk. She was antsy, Fred was doing a LOT of partying and drinking - unfortunately, Fred had a well known drinking problem that he was infamous for only being able to control for a few days or weeks at a time and he had resumed his partying ways at every port along the trip (a genius navigator for certain, but with his problem, I'm not certain why she chose him) - and eye witnesses report he was hung over when they left. Possibility of major fog, hung over navigator, a radio that had been repaired more than once on the trip....recipe for disaster. At one point, she was only a VERY short distance from the aircraft carrier that she needed to make visual contact with. The fog was so dense they couldn't see her, she couldn't see them, and in Fred's less than alert state he became disoriented and they began making concentric circles in a wider path from the carrier not narrower. Oh, Amelia really did HATE her freckles. It's something my grandfather remembered about her because he mentioned them to her (thought she was quite adorable) when she was little and she became irate! So, the freckle cream, if that's what it turns out to be, is actually evidence in strong favor of the theory of being a castaway on that atoll. But, here's the question we'd all like answered...a few rather cryptic notes found amongst the papers of her physician seem to suggest the possibility that she may have been pregnant. Reports at two different ports, though the eye witness testimony was never sufficiently verified, indicate she appeared sick, pale, nauseated, dehydrated, etc. Most people do not have a clear understanding of what she put her body through to endure those long distance flights...she deliberately dehydrated herself so she wouldn't have to "use" her "diaper" too much. She ate foods that constipated her so that the other would not be an issue, etc. She was always thin, but on some of these long distance flights she would lose several pounds in a couple of days...brutal. Add pregnancy to the mix and one can only imagine the stress on her body and mental agility. However, it is again speculation. On the government end of things, a great deal of information about the trip was conveniently lost. Though rumor indicates she was examined by an army or navy doctor prior to the first leg of the trip, that report if it indeed existed, has never surfaced. And no, the family does not give any credence whatsoever to the author who believes she faked her disappearance and that she and Fred Noonan lived in Europe and then eventually the east coast under assumed identities because she wanted out of a bad marriage without divorcing Putnam and Fred had other problems he was trying to avoid. This one seems pretty far-fetched. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama_Rana Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Faith, thanks for that! I'm so fascinated by her story, and saddened to think about how it ended. All this new evidence just makes me sadder. I just looked up a map of the island in question. It's barely an island! It's a circle of land surrounding a lagoon fed by the ocean. I can't imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Faith, thanks for that! I'm so fascinated by her story, and saddened to think about how it ended. All this new evidence just makes me sadder. I just looked up a map of the island in question. It's barely an island! It's a circle of land surrounding a lagoon fed by the ocean. I can't imagine. You are correct. The map does not even adequately show how uninhabitable that spot would be for castaways. No wood, no brush, no nothing to burn really. They could have started out burning some of the items in the plane and they did have matches though not a lot and that is a real problem because the water would have killed them from salt poisoning unless they could boil it long enough to evaporate the water and condense it in another container leaving the salt at the bottom of the pot. A real conundrum. 65% of all hydration typically comes from food sources so if they could have come up with sea life to eat, that could keep one going for along time if they could get enough of it and if they had not incurred any injuries from ditching. Previous trip to the "island" indicate that sufficient sea life would have been difficult to snag. They really didn't have much by way of supplies that could be adequately used as rigging for fishing or netting anything. The occasional turtle or something. But, the presence of human life on an otherwise uninhabited piece of coral would most likely have scared off birds and such. They may have found some things like clams, some sort of crustaceans scurrying around, etc. but not enough to sustain a level of minimum hydration necessary for life. My guess is that they would have burned through all of their consumable items from the plane, assuming from tidal estimations of the area that the plane would have washed off the atoll approximately five days after it went down, within three days if they were trying to keep a fire going for A. purifying water and B. signalling aircraft and naval vessels. To be honest with you, they were not at all well equipped for an emergency landing/ditching in the ocean. But a great deal of the reason for that was the fact that back then, aviation experience and the structural integrity of most aircraft had not advanced to the place that most aviators felt they could survive such an effort. It would take some major flying genius to have put that electra down on that atoll, but to some how put it down gently in the water, just about NO WAY. The general concensus back then was you either had something slightly resembling a landing area on solid ground, or you were toast and no need to plan for any contingency in between. So, they were very inadequately supplied for this time of scenario. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Wow! Thank you so much Faith for your contributions to this thread. It's fascinating to hear more details, but so sad at the same time. I hate to think of how she and Noonan must have died. :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsbaby Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Very interesting Faith! Thank you for the input. Such a tragedy:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) Faith, thanks for that! I'm so fascinated by her story, and saddened to think about how it ended. All this new evidence just makes me sadder. I just looked up a map of the island in question. It's barely an island! It's a circle of land surrounding a lagoon fed by the ocean. I can't imagine. Wow! Thank you so much Faith for your contributions to this thread. It's fascinating to hear more details, but so sad at the same time. I hate to think of how she and Noonan must have died. :crying: Yeah, it hardly bares thinking about and yet, we have to think about it. No rainfall is recorded for Nikumaroro (sp?) during that period adding to the dire water situation. Though some have speculated that she and Fred could have survived for a few months, I very highly doubt it. Ii is unlikely they would have died of starvation. Dehydration, heat stroke, or injury from a crash landing would be the more likely guesses or even infection from a wound. Once the infection set in, if fever came with it, it would take maybe 24 hrs. in that setting. They would not have had naturally occuring shade, although if they didn't burn their spare clothing, they could have rigged some of it for a tarp/sun barrier from a wing, but again, providing they were both in good enough shape to do it. Post loss radio signals that were recently analyzed do give us reason to believe that at least one of them was ambulatory because they would have had to be able to get into the plane at low tide and run the engine off the battery in order to make those transmissions - the battery was a hand crank mechanism and took a little oomph to operate. Approximately 50 transmissions have now been verified to have come from her electra after contact with the Coast Guard Cutter was lost. There is still a varying account of just how long after post loss these radio signals were heard. A short wave radio in Australia who was actively searching for distress signals has made a compelling case that there was a post loss contact from her in which a female voice gave her call sign and stated that she was Amelia Earhart at five days post loss. We've seen nothing compelling after that which leads the family to believe that she expired some time on day five or six if she was indeed a castaway. Again, there still isn't enough conclusive evidence to indicate that they didn't just ditch in the water and were killed on impact or drowned. So many of the individuals that received those perceived post loss signals are no longer alive. It makes it hard to say for certain that there were post loss communications from the electra. Those that have adamantly maintained that there was no post loss communication may have to revise their assertions because the evidence is not leaning that way. Though obviously, no real determinations can be made yet. However, TIGHR (oh, drat, I can't remember if I left a letter out or not) is doing an excellent job with evidence analysis and is making a pretty good case for the castaway theory. Frankly, they are probably making a better case for the castaway idea than the US government made for ocean ditching and immediate death. We'll see how it plays out. On the one hand, closure and an understanding of how it happened, is nice. On the other hand, the relatives who went through all of the pain and suffering of her disappearance and the endless years of not knowing are all gone. My generation is curious, but not caught in any kind of emotional wave about it. I think what I'd really like to know more about is the convenient loss of certain documents pertaining to the interest the Department of Defense and the President of the United States took in her trip that appeared to be much more than just human interest, pride, support, and record setting. As for her husband, it didn't take him all that long to have her declared dead (less than two years post-disappearance and that's something you generally can't get done that quickly in the courts without producing a serious evidence!!) and remarry...this was a fairly fast process. I'm not certain if Putnam knew something and took it to his grave, or if he was, as the family reports, the kind of man that just simply can.not.live.without.female.companionship.and.attention. This was the familial view of him! Of course, everyone had reason to believe it was a pragmatic marriage more than anything....still.....the pregnancy thing is looming. Frankly, if she was pregnant, it is not likely that the baby was Putnam's! Family legend is that the marriage was "open" and Amelia entertained herself quite well! :glare: Grandpa always said that there tended to be two boyfriends on the hook at any given time and that neither of them was the reported Gore Vidal's father. :001_huh: Curiosity on that one is high.:lol: Now just where is that physical fitness report I'd like to know!!!! :D Faith Edited June 2, 2012 by FaithManor left off a word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 That is awesome Faith! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama_Rana Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I'm confused about the radio. The article made it sound like the plane's engines were somehow involved, and my son's first question was, "How could that work if they ran out of gas?" DH speculated that maybe they had just a bit left, but knew they didn't have enough to get to another island. But if you're saying that the fact that there was no contact after day 5 means she probably died that day or the next, then it sounds like the gas wasn't an issue for getting the radio running? Otherwise I'd say, well, maybe they just finally ran out of gas. And what was that about Gore Vidal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I'm confused about the radio. The article made it sound like the plane's engines were somehow involved, and my son's first question was, "How could that work if they ran out of gas?" DH speculated that maybe they had just a bit left, but knew they didn't have enough to get to another island. But if you're saying that the fact that there was no contact after day 5 means she probably died that day or the next, then it sounds like the gas wasn't an issue for getting the radio running? Otherwise I'd say, well, maybe they just finally ran out of gas. And what was that about Gore Vidal? I think it was a crank radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 It's so sad to think that even with a ship nearby that was waiting for them, even with the radio transmissions giving her compass location, Morse code and further transmissions that nobody could find them. How long could they really survive on a deserted atoll? :( Then there is this one. The plane was found only a short time ago. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2142300/Crashed-plane-Second-World-War-pilot-Dennis-Copping-discovered-Sahara-desert.html ‘He must have survived the crash because one photo shows a parachute around the frame of the plane and my guess is the poor bloke used it to shelter from the sun. The radio and batteries were out of the plane and it looks like he tried to get it working. If he died at the side of the plane his remains would have been found. Once he had crashed there, nobody was going to come and get him. It is more likely he tried to walk out of the desert but ended up walking to his death. It is too hideous to contemplate.’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I'm confused about the radio. The article made it sound like the plane's engines were somehow involved, and my son's first question was, "How could that work if they ran out of gas?" DH speculated that maybe they had just a bit left, but knew they didn't have enough to get to another island. But if you're saying that the fact that there was no contact after day 5 means she probably died that day or the next, then it sounds like the gas wasn't an issue for getting the radio running? Otherwise I'd say, well, maybe they just finally ran out of gas. And what was that about Gore Vidal? The radio runs off the engine battery which is hand crank. They did run out of gas which meant they had to ditch in the ocean or crash land somewhere. Gore Vidal's father, Gene, reportedly had a raging affair with Amelia. Reportedly...Gore's memories as an 8 year old are that his father was deeply in love with her. However, Gore was A. 8 and B. uhmmm a rather flamboyant romantic with a penchant for exaggeration as an adult by the time he related these "facts". As for family legend, there were a couple of other men that were likely to have been involved in very independent marriage. The reality is that while Putnam might have at some point "loved" Amelia, his real motivation from the beginning of their marriage was money and fame. It was convenient to be married to his "star" and she had very pragmatic reasons for allowing it. Letters to Putnam prior to the marriage show that she fully intended that it would be all business with a little friendship thrown in, but she would be completely indendent and pursue intimate relationships with whomever she chose. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jentancalann Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Very interesting thread, thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Then there is this one. The plane was found only a short time ago. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2142300/Crashed-plane-Second-World-War-pilot-Dennis-Copping-discovered-Sahara-desert.html ‘He must have survived the crash because one photo shows a parachute around the frame of the plane and my guess is the poor bloke used it to shelter from the sun. The radio and batteries were out of the plane and it looks like he tried to get it working. If he died at the side of the plane his remains would have been found. Once he had crashed there, nobody was going to come and get him. It is more likely he tried to walk out of the desert but ended up walking to his death. It is too hideous to contemplate.’ poor guy. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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