Friend with $$ issue. WWYD?

[Audrey]

A friend of mine has recently been caught in a deception by her dh. She has been spending money secretly. Lots of it. She has many secret credit card accounts all over the place. When she unloaded all of this on me and told me how much she had on her cards, I couldn't stop myself from choking. It is dozens of thousands. Her dh probably doesn't make much more than that in a year. She doesn't work at all anymore.

 

I believe her when she says she thinks it is an addiction and that she wants to stop. She wants me to help her, but I cannot. I don't know the first thing to do to help her. I don't think like that (hiding stuff from her dh and the shopping compulsion, just to start), and I don't think she is so much sorry at what she did as sorry that she was caught doing it. But, I do believe she wants to change. (I know that sounds contradictory, but it's how I feel in my heart about her, not so much my head, IYKWIM).

 

I don't even know where to begin. I was going to suggest counseling, and plan to ask my own therapist what kind of counselor would handle something like that. I also want to scream at her to get herself a job and start paying it back! But, I don't think that would be so helpful. :blushing: Other than that, I just haven't a clue.

 

Are there online resources, or books or programs to help someone break not only the spending habit, but also the psychological compulsion? I want to be a friend, but this is way beyond my comprehension.

 

WWYD?

[SonshineLearner]

What a good friend you are!! Offering her someone to talk with besides you is the obvious choice that is good!! Then, being there as her husband and she go through some hellish discussions, is next. BUT, I'm not sure how much I'd want to talk about it... more like offer tea :(

[SonshineLearner]

What a good friend you are!! Offering her someone to talk with besides you is the obvious choice that is good!! Then, being there as her husband and she go through some hellish discussions, is next. BUT, I'm not sure how much I'd want to talk about it... more like offer tea :(

[Catwoman]

Whatever you do, don't get caught in the middle. This is between her and her husband, and the only thing you can do to help her is to recommend a therapist.

 

I know a woman like your friend, and she has been "getting help" for her spending issues for years and years. Fortunately, her dh makes enough money to pay the massive bills (hundreds of thousands of dollars within a few years,) but although he makes a lot of money, he will never be able to even think about retiring, because she will never change. She is on medication; she sees a psychiatrist; she has apparently been properly diagnosed... but the thing is, I don't think she wants to stop spending. She talks a great game, but it rings very hollow to me. She is great at lying to and manipulating her dh, who is one of the nicest men you could ever meet, and I can't respect someone who does that, so I understand exactly how you're feeling about your friend's behavior and attitude.

 

Ultimately, go out for coffee with her, and be her friend if you want to, but know that there's nothing you can do to help her change. If she really, really wants to change, she can do it with a lot of help and support, but your description of her was so similar to that of the woman I know, that she may not have the slightest intention of making a real change in her life.

[Cinder]

If she's really struggling with an addiction maybe she could get an idea on where to find help from someone in leadership at AA. (I hope this doesn't sound stupid but it's the first thing that popped into my head since they deal with addictions.)

Edited May 30, 2012 by Cinder
change from you finding her help to her finding her own help

[Catwoman]

Whatever you do, don't get caught in the middle. This is between her and her husband, and the only thing you can do to help her is to recommend a therapist.

 

I know a woman like your friend, and she has been "getting help" for her spending issues for years and years. Fortunately, her dh makes enough money to pay the massive bills (hundreds of thousands of dollars every few years,) but although he makes a lot of money, he will never be able to even think about retiring, because she will never change. She is on medication; she sees a psychiatrist; she has apparently been properly diagnosed... but the thing is, I don't think she wants to stop spending. She talks a great game, but it rings very hollow to me. She is great at lying to and manipulating her dh, who is one of the nicest men you could ever meet, and I can't respect someone who does that, so I understand exactly how you're feeling about your friend's behavior and attitude.

 

Ultimately, go out for coffee with her, and be her friend if you want to, but know that there's nothing you can do to help her change. If she really, really wants to change, she can do it with a lot of help and support, but your description of her was so similar to that of the woman I know, that she may not have the slightest intention of making a real change in her life.

[meggie]

Isn't it possible to put a freeze on her credit reports so she can't open anymore lines of credit? If she can do that, tell her to do it. It won't fix the problem, but could help keep her from digging a further hole.

 

As to fixing the problem, I probably would suggest (in a nice way :tongue_smilie:) that she gets a job to help fix it.

 

I don't know much beyond that though. In dealing with people, change doesn't seem to happen much until she really wants to. You seem unsure as to if she is really serious about it or not. I suppose only time will tell, but she's the only one who could fix that.

[gardenmom5]

I was going to suggest counseling, and plan to ask my own therapist what kind of counselor would handle something like that. I also want to scream at her to get herself a job and start paying it back! But, I don't think that would be so helpful. :blushing: Other than that, I just haven't a clue.

WWYD?

 

my mil is a compulsive spender. it is often also related to hoarding. (the paths of junk through a house are the extreme cases.)

 

suggest counseling. she's spending for the high, and she needs more help than you can give her. often anti-depressants and talk therapy can help.

 

suggest a credit counselor who makes it impossible for her to open a charge account. she cannot have control of money. no if's, and's or but's. no credit cards, checking accounts, all credit bureaus need to be informed to not open accounts in her name/ID, etc. (a weekly or biweekly cash allowance is the ONLY way she can be allowed money. when cash is gone - it's gone and there ain't no more 'til next time.)

 

suggest coming clean with her dh. (that is imperative.) sure it might end in divorce - but that was her choice when she started spending and hiding it from him.

 

compulsive spending is an addiction and it requires professional help. and yes, she needs to get a job to help pay it back. yard sale the junk she bought will be a start.

 

if you want to help her, let her know you will stand by her while she does these things.

[Audrey]

Whatever you do, don't get caught in the middle. This is between her and her husband, and the only thing you can do to help her is to recommend a therapist.

 

I know a woman like your friend, and she has been "getting help" for her spending issues for years and years. Fortunately, her dh makes enough money to pay the massive bills (hundreds of thousands of dollars within a few years,) but although he makes a lot of money, he will never be able to even think about retiring, because she will never change. She is on medication; she sees a psychiatrist; she has apparently been properly diagnosed... but the thing is, I don't think she wants to stop spending. She talks a great game, but it rings very hollow to me. She is great at lying to and manipulating her dh, who is one of the nicest men you could ever meet, and I can't respect someone who does that, so I understand exactly how you're feeling about your friend's behavior and attitude.

 

Ultimately, go out for coffee with her, and be her friend if you want to, but know that there's nothing you can do to help her change. If she really, really wants to change, she can do it with a lot of help and support, but your description of her was so similar to that of the woman I know, that she may not have the slightest intention of making a real change in her life.

 

 

No. I definitely don't want to be in the middle. I can offer her the name of a therapist and perhaps some book or website recommendations, but that's all I can really do.

 

I don't even know if I can sit and listen to too many details. It kind of sickens me in a strange way. I'm not sure how to explain that. :confused1:

 

I want to hope that she isn't like your friend. I really do. :sad:

[Audrey]

Isn't it possible to put a freeze on her credit reports so she can't open anymore lines of credit? If she can do that, tell her to do it. It won't fix the problem, but could help keep her from digging a further hole.

 

As to fixing the problem, I probably would suggest (in a nice way :tongue_smilie:) that she gets a job to help fix it.

 

I don't know much beyond that though. In dealing with people, change doesn't seem to happen much until she really wants to. You seem unsure as to if she is really serious about it or not. I suppose only time will tell, but she's the only one who could fix that.

 

 

I don't know what she and her dh are working out between them re: the cards. If it comes up and she is looking for ideas, I could suggest that. Thank you.

[Reflections]

Ultimately, go out for coffee with her, and be her friend if you want to, but know that there's nothing you can do to help her change. If she really, really wants to change, she can do it with a lot of help and support, but your description of her was so similar to that of the woman I know, that she may not have the slightest intention of making a real change in her life.

 

:iagree: Best of luck. Emotional support and unconditional love is probably all you can do to help her.

[Audrey]

my mil is a compulsive spender. it is often also related to hoarding. (the paths of junk through a house are the extreme cases.)

 

suggest counseling. she's spending for the high, and she needs more help than you can give her. often anti-depressants and talk therapy can help.

 

suggest a credit counselor who makes it impossible for her to open a charge account. she cannot have control of money. no if's, and's or but's. no credit cards, checking accounts, all credit bureaus need to be informed to not open accounts in her name/ID, etc. (a weekly or biweekly cash allowance is the ONLY way she can be allowed money. when cash is gone - it's gone and there ain't no more 'til next time.)

 

suggest coming clean with her dh. (that is imperative.) sure it might end in divorce - but that was her choice when she started spending and hiding it from him.

 

compulsive spending is an addiction and it requires professional help. and yes, she needs to get a job to help pay it back. yard sale the junk she bought will be a start.

 

if you want to help her, let her know you will stand by her while she does these things.

 

 

Very good ideas. Thank you. I do know that she has come clean with her dh. She told me that he found a couple of statements for cards he didn't she had. She confessed to all of them and all the bills. I'm not sure what they are going to do about all of that, but that's for them to figure out between them.

[gardenmom5]

I know a woman like your friend, and she has been "getting help" for her spending issues for years and years. She is on medication; she sees a psychiatrist; she has apparently been properly diagnosed... but the thing is, I don't think she wants to stop spending. She talks a great game, but it rings very hollow to me. She is great at lying to and manipulating her dh, who is one of the nicest men you could ever meet, and I can't respect someone who does that, so I understand exactly how you're feeling about your friend's behavior and attitude.

 

.

 

bingo.

 

my dh has controlled his mothe'rs spending (he has control of her income and bank accounts. she get's a weekly cash allowance) - but it has required him to be a real sob at times because she'll whine and attempt to manipulate. his sisters are totally supportive of his methods. now. but only because they tried and failed. but she is no longer in debt and her needs are being met. (her last husband was a millionaire *when* they married. not when he died 15 years later.)

 

eta: mil doesn't want to change - she wants to spend. so the controls are external.

Edited May 30, 2012 by gardenmom5

[Catwoman]

No. I definitely don't want to be in the middle. I can offer her the name of a therapist and perhaps some book or website recommendations, but that's all I can really do.

 

I don't even know if I can sit and listen to too many details. It kind of sickens me in a strange way. I'm not sure how to explain that. :confused1:

 

I want to hope that she isn't like your friend. I really do. :sad:

 

It's difficult to listen to the details, because you want to just smack the person and tell them to quit lying and making excuses, and to own up to their deceitful behavior. It doesn't matter if you realize that the person is mentally ill; it's still hard to listen to all of the rationalization and self-pitying.

 

Fortunately, the woman I know is not a friend of mine, so I don't have to deal with her at all. Her dh is friends with my dh, though, and I know what she has put him through.

[Joanne]

It's a process addiction.

 

Money won't help it. It would be like giving an alcoholic a drink.

 

http://debtorsanonymous.org/

 

She needs to get specialized help.

 

http://www.amazon.com/How-Debt-Stay-Live-Prosperously/dp/0553382020/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338349522&sr=8-1

 

Please know that, just like other addicts, she may not chose to get well even if she should.

[gardenmom5]

It's a process addiction.

 

Money won't help it. It would be like giving an alcoholic a drink.

 

http://debtorsanonymous.org/

 

She needs to get specialized help.

 

http://www.amazon.com/How-Debt-Stay-Live-Prosperously/dp/0553382020/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338349522&sr=8-1

 

Please know that, just like other addicts, she may not chose to get well even if she should.

:iagree: but like food addicts who still need to eat, there are still basics people need to buy.

[Slipper]

I used to spend compulsively (although nothing like your friend). My debt was several thousand dollars but honestly, some of it was necessary. Most of my fear was of not having money. DH and I worked out an allowance that I could spend which helped considerably. Otherwise, it was breaking a spending habit. For months, I would find things that I had bought and never taken out of the shopping bags.

 

I did locate some great info online and it is similar to AA.

 

Good luck. Addiction to shopping may sound silly, but it's very real. I wish the best for your friend and I'm glad she's told her husband. That is the worst part. Hopefully, she can move forward.

[SKL]

If she has an addictive personality, perhaps she could get herself addicted to the opposite "extreme" - get into some frugal spending program (I've heard of some - Dave Ramsey is often mentioned - but I've never investigated these), or just set up a personalized system to follow. I used to have a spreadsheet which tracked every penny I spent and predicted when in the future I'd be debt free. It was fun to think of new ways to cut costs, including how I accelerated while driving, how quickly I transferred cash from A to B to keep the interest down, how little I lent to Uncle Sam (tax withholding), etc.

 

I also never go shopping without my kids, which keeps the expenses down - I haven't "browsed" a store in 5 years :D. She should also quit doing online shopping without her husband's knowledge, though I don't have a trick to prevent that.

 

I also agree that getting a job would help. She would have less time to think up schemes. On the other hand, she shouldn't use it as an excuse to now spend "her money" or to "need" a lot of new stuff for work.

Edited May 30, 2012 by SKL

[Joanne]

I also agree that getting a job would help. She would have less time to think up schemes. On the other hand, she shouldn't use it as an excuse to now spend "her money" or to "need" a lot of new stuff for work.

 

Getting a job won't help in the short term. It would be like an alcoholic moving, changing jobs, leaving a relationship (etc) in an effort to stop or cut down drinking.

 

Getting a job may help some foundational self worth issues, but the addiction needs to be addressed directly.

[mytwomonkeys]

my husband and i had $23,000 in CC debt at one point, so i feel her pain. having that as a secret would be even more traumatic. we are debt free now, with the exception of a few thousand left on my husband's car. we used dave ramsey principles. it requires major discipline in the beginning, the first thing being CUT UP the credit cards. i don't think they are evil or anything, but if you can't be responsible with them, DON'T use them. remove the temptation completely. going to a cash only basis was the best thing we've done & living on a budget is essential to progress and success. i've not used a CC in years. everything we buy is cash only or paid online through our bank. secondly, she needs to get a budget. if she doesn't learn to spend cash correctly, she will only rinse & repeat the debt cycle. thirdly, she has to come clean with her husband. i know that will be difficult, but honestly, she just cannot do this alone. not to mention, he has the right to know. you are a good friend to help her.:)

[mytwomonkeys]

Very good ideas. Thank you. I do know that she has come clean with her dh. She told me that he found a couple of statements for cards he didn't she had. She confessed to all of them and all the bills. I'm not sure what they are going to do about all of that, but that's for them to figure out between them.

 

i'm sure that's a huge relief for her.

[Dobela]

I agree that counseling would help, but only with the right counselor. She may have to change counselors more than once to find one that she bonds with. As far as spending all that money, I can relate. I have been there. Part of mine began as a child when no limits were placed on my spending. No matter how much I put on that credit card my parents paid it for me. Having a job just gave me more license to spend because I always could depend on that next paycheck. As a stay at home mom, while the money was good and my husband just juggled the other bills, I slowed some of my spending but was still never held responsible. Part of my spending was also emotional - taught to me by my mom- because it feels good to get a deal or to get new clothes that others brag on or ____.

 

Being on a strict budget may or may not help. The desire to spend is still there.

 

She will still need a friend after this. Really truely, a friend. Things will get tough and you may need to be the encourager - let her know you believe she can overcome this. Find things you can do together that could give her a high - like training for a 5K to walk in-that don't have lots of initial money requirements. Starting new hobbies is difficult for me because I start wanting to buy all the extra gadgets (think sewing or knitting). But when I began walking this year, beyond the new shoes, I already had everything I needed.

[Dobela]

I agree that counseling would help, but only with the right counselor. She may have to change counselors more than once to find one that she bonds with. As far as spending all that money, I can relate. I have been there. Part of mine began as a child when no limits were placed on my spending. No matter how much I put on that credit card my parents paid it for me. Having a job just gave me more license to spend because I always could depend on that next paycheck. As a stay at home mom, while the money was good and my husband just juggled the other bills, I slowed some of my spending but was still never held responsible. Part of my spending was also emotional - taught to me by my mom- because it feels good to get a deal or to get new clothes that others brag on or ____.

 

Being on a strict budget may or may not help. The desire to spend is still there. Having less money to spend sometimes will lead to things like: child A needs new shirts so instead of spending one large amount I will buy several whenever I find them at thrift stores. This may actually cost more than just buying a few new at one time.

 

 

She will still need a friend after this. Really truely, a friend. Things will get tough and you may need to be the encourager - let her know you believe she can overcome this. Find things you can do together that could give her a high - like training for a 5K to walk in-that don't have lots of initial money requirements. Starting new hobbies is difficult for me because I start wanting to buy all the extra gadgets (think sewing or knitting). But when I began walking this year, beyond the new shoes, I already had everything I needed.

[Sevilla]

In addition to the other resources listed, if she is Christian then something like http://www.celebraterecovery.com might be a place to look for working through addictions and what feeds into them.

 

Her behavior screams "addiction" which carries a whole host of issues to tackle and work through. If you do some reading on addictions and the signs of them she has it all there - the secrecy, etc...