Sonlight and retention?

[kymomof3]

For those of you who use or have used Sonlight for history, do your children retain what they are learning? Is hearing and discussing enough for long term retention? We're moving into seventh grade and I want to be assured Sonlight is enough. Would something else be better? BTW, I'd be using core G or W.

 

Thanks,

Amie

[Mandy in TN]

It depends on the child.

 

My oldest was a Sonlight kid. Just like the program promises, he responded to the historical fiction with empathy. He related the fiction to the nonfiction and developed a deeper understanding of the time period and people he studied. At 21yo he still remembers information he learned through SL.

 

SL was never a good fit for my second ds. He doesn't like historical fiction and on his own he never made the connections that came so naturally to my oldest. OTOH, when I talk about scheduling this or that book to read with my youngest I am surprised at how many he remembers.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[unity]

My kids largely enjoy SL books (except for my dd, for whom the majority are too emotionally hard-hitting), but they don't seem to make the history connections that they're supposed to make. They retained very little from the 7 SL cores we did. Great books, but not great history learning for our family.

[Mom22ns]

We used G & H the last two years and my kids have learned a lot! I can't say yet what they will remember 5 years from now, but certainly more than they would have with a textbook program. They enjoyed it. We had great discussions. As a family we frequently discuss a current events and then ask the kids to put them into historical context. ie Why would people of that country respond that way? What happened during x time period that might influence the way that people group are acting or reacting now. My kids can talk intelligently about the big picture of world history. They can not give dates, but can give time periods, what it was like and why.

[melmichigan]

My oldest naturally makes the connections and loves the historical fiction, she just needed more challenge because she is such an avid reader. My middles are doing better with TOG. My younger son might be the other one that will use more of SL than the others, time will tell. I think a large part of it depends on the child.

[mdhomeschool]

As much as any kid retains anything I think (which is a great reason why we go through the history cycle a few times), SL works.

[kymomof3]

Thanks for taking time to respond. I'm just nervous about middle school and if I'll be giving enough of a challenge. I know SL is good, I just always find myself doubting. :)

 

Amie

[melmichigan]

You also might want to start thinking about what your plans are for high school and how they will impact what you do for middle school. I knew SL wouldn't be enough for us at a high school level and am now very glad to have made the transition to TOG earlier than previously planned. The time in D is helping make the transition up to TOG go more smoothly than it would have been if I had waited.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

None of my children "got it" when using the SL curriculum written as is. They did get some from the review we would do with the timeline but other then that the it was a bunch of good books to read instead of doing school. I made a point to say 'written as is' because I think if you add in more hands on (projects, notebooking, crafts, research) you could use the SL books and wind up with a curriculum that a child can grasp the connections and have it stick.

[Mom0012]

My son remembers everything I read to him. He has a natural love of history and a special memory for it. My daughter remembers a lot of what we read, but more in the big picture sense rather than all the little details.

 

We are starting Core G next year for 5th and 7th grades and I do plan on requiring more output than I have in the past. My son has already been writing occasional papers based on what we've been reading in history, but this year, I plan to implement the WTM recommendations as well.

 

Since Core G uses SOTW, I am using the schedule from the SOTW Activity Guides to add in the Kingfisher Encyclopedia. I will have ds and dd pull out 5 important facts from the encyclopedia and write them down. Then, I will have them make a timeline using important dates that they pick from the encyclopedia. For my son (and maybe my daughter), I will have him start with one-level outlines using 6 paragraphs from K-12's Human Odyssey on whatever topic we are reading in SL. I plan to finish 7th grade with at least 2 level outlines. He will likely use some of these outlines to write short papers. I am also planning on adding in World History Detective from the CTC to add a little more depth to some of our discussions. Discussion, making connections and output are going to be a big focus for me this year.

 

Lisa

[curlgirl]

My oldest naturally makes the connections and loves the historical fiction, she just needed more challenge because she is such an avid reader. My middles are doing better with TOG. My younger son might be the other one that will use more of SL than the others, time will tell. I think a large part of it depends on the child.

 

So what made you switch? I love Sonlight I really do. I am just not sure if it is enough??? We did cores G and B this year. My oldest did core G and summarized and drew every day. The SOTW activities line up well with what Sonlight covers so we did the map activities from the SOTW workbooks for the younger ones in core B. I think we will go ahead and finish up Part 2 of the Sonlight World History cores but after that I just don't know. I thought core B was pretty light. I liked core G better...

[melmichigan]

So what made you switch? I love Sonlight I really do. I am just not sure if it is enough??? We did cores G and B this year. My oldest did core G and summarized and drew every day. The SOTW activities line up well with what Sonlight covers so we did the map activities from the SOTW workbooks for the younger ones in core B. I think we will go ahead and finish up Part 2 of the Sonlight World History cores but after that I just don't know. I thought core B was pretty light. I liked core G better...

 

I knew we were going to switch, just not right when we did. For me SL just wasn't enough. We could argue this till the cows came home, it's my opinion, I was already adding to the old Core 6. DD was set to finish through Core 100 before the end of middle school, the books were already on the shelf. As I began reading through the upper cores (I have all the IG's) I realized that I wasn't happy with abridged versions of classics for that level, I didn't feel that there was enough, enough discussion, enough analysis, enough beyond a schedule for my oldest particularly. At the same time I was working with 3 cores and had littles still coming up so it was a big time committment for me to do all the read alouds. Then I began to have problems with the company line.

 

Looking at all those things combined I took a week off school, spent a ton of time reading and asking in threads here and on the TOG site, and made the decision to change. (It was funny because I had just finished writing numerous threads defending/solidifying my choice to stay with SL until R.) Now I just choose what read alouds I want to add to TOG from the various SL cores, my kids are required to read all the old SL 2 Readers through Advanced before they begin working with the TOG literature, and for the most part the rest of the SL books are getting read at some point in time throughout the year (remember avid readers ;)). I make TOG work for our family with much more ease. Now I am happy I made the decision before R. :)

[Candid]

I knew we were going to switch, just not right when we did. For me SL just wasn't enough. We could argue this till the cows came home, it's my opinion, I was already adding to the old Core 6. DD was set to finish through Core 100 before the end of middle school, the books were already on the shelf. As I began reading through the upper cores (I have all the IG's) I realized that I wasn't happy with abridged versions of classics for that level, I didn't feel that there was enough, enough discussion, enough analysis, enough beyond a schedule for my oldest particularly. At the same time I was working with 3 cores and had littles still coming up so it was a big time committment for me to do all the read alouds. Then I began to have problems with the company line.

 

Looking at all those things combined I took a week off school, spent a ton of time reading and asking in threads here and on the TOG site, and made the decision to change. (It was funny because I had just finished writing numerous threads defending/solidifying my choice to stay with SL until R.) Now I just choose what read alouds I want to add to TOG from the various SL cores, my kids are required to read all the old SL 2 Readers through Advanced before they begin working with the TOG literature, and for the most part the rest of the SL books are getting read at some point in time throughout the year (remember avid readers ;)). I make TOG work for our family with much more ease. Now I am happy I made the decision before R. :)

 

I also did this. I can remember starting Sonlight but not sure about the high school cores because they seemed to lack depth. BUT as I used Sonlight, I feel in love with it for a long time. When my oldest was in Eastern Hemisphere, there was a lot of discussion on that forum about whether Sonlight was really asking children of that age to do any critical thinking. One mom even posted her list of questions for the readers (which you can still get in this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Myvariousfiles/) I remember comparing it to the questions Sonlight asked and hers were so much more what I wanted for my children. The next year we started Tapestry and I continue to be pleased.

 

I, too, am glad I switched to Tapestry for middle school as it has helped prepare my children for R level materials.

[curlgirl]

I knew we were going to switch, just not right when we did. For me SL just wasn't enough. We could argue this till the cows came home, it's my opinion, I was already adding to the old Core 6."

 

Thank you so much for your reply. I hope you did not think I was arguing with you? I am seriously thinking about switching and was curious why you did. Thanks for responding!

[melmichigan]

I knew we were going to switch, just not right when we did. For me SL just wasn't enough. We could argue this till the cows came home, it's my opinion, I was already adding to the old Core 6."

 

Thank you so much for your reply. I hope you did not think I was arguing with you? I am seriously thinking about switching and was curious why you did. Thanks for responding!

 

I didn't think your were arguing, I worded that wrong if it came across that way, I should have said "it could be argued till the cows came home." SL's rigor it is something has been hotly debated over and over again here and on SL so I always make sure it's known that this is simply my opinion. We are good. :)

[curlgirl]

Thank you I just did not want to offend. Thanks for responding!

[Mommy22alyns]

I didn't find SL to be nearly enough even at the second grade level. And Rebecca's retention was also poor. Can some kids learn this way? Of course. But it didn't work here.

[Murrayshire]

I plan on using SL Core G with my 7th grader in the fall. Only because SOTW is being used in the core and my dd loves all the books. We are going to notebook our way through it though, add cooking, crafts, and documentaries using this site that has a documentary for every SOTW chapter: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&key=0AumgWD14ZCPSdGNRQVVjeVotbjcwVlByV3pPS2xJRlE&hl=en_US&gid=0

 

And I'll use this blog as well: http://sotw-videolinks.blogspot.com/2012_04_01_archive.html

 

I'm in the process of making a wall timeline in our foyer......this should be fun!

I think as long as you make what you are learning engaging then you will retain it!

[Mom0012]

I plan on using SL Core G with my 7th grader in the fall. Only because SOTW is being used in the core and my dd loves all the books. We are going to notebook our way through it though, add cooking, crafts, and documentaries using this site that has a documentary for every SOTW chapter: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&key=0AumgWD14ZCPSdGNRQVVjeVotbjcwVlByV3pPS2xJRlE&hl=en_US&gid=0

 

And I'll use this blog as well: http://sotw-videolinks.blogspot.com/2012_04_01_archive.html

 

I'm in the process of making a wall timeline in our foyer......this should be fun!

I think as long as you make what you are learning engaging then you will retain it!

 

Thanks for the link to the documentaries on Netflix! You've saved me some time here.

 

Lisa

[Guest alde16]

Not sure why, but my kids retain more than I think they do. I have learned a lot by using Sonlight. But not every approach is going to work for every kid.

[Guest LSmoll]

So glad you've found my video links, and I hope they prove helpful to you! Just wanted to let you know that I have finished all 42 chapters! I've used all of these videos with Sonlight G with my 5th and 7th graders. It's been a great add-on for my kiddos.

 

Feel free to share!

 

I plan on using SL Core G with my 7th grader in the fall. Only because SOTW is being used in the core and my dd loves all the books. We are going to notebook our way through it though, add cooking, crafts, and documentaries using this site that has a documentary for every SOTW chapter: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&key=0AumgWD14ZCPSdGNRQVVjeVotbjcwVlByV3pPS2xJRlE&hl=en_US&gid=0

 

And I'll use this blog as well: http://sotw-videolinks.blogspot.com/2012_04_01_archive.html

 

I'm in the process of making a wall timeline in our foyer......this should be fun!

I think as long as you make what you are learning engaging then you will retain it!

[eschuetter]

I completely agree that not every curriculum is for every student.

 

We've done Sonlight for five years now and love it. My kids retain much more than I realize. This information comes out in unexpected places - like when a National Parks ranger asks them a history question. : ) FWIW, we've only done Sonlight up through Core D (about 4th or 5th grade) so far.

 

At the same time, I can see that other programs work wonderfully for other families.

 

Good for you for finding something that works for you and yours.

[JadeOrchidSong]

I plan on using SL Core G with my 7th grader in the fall. Only because SOTW is being used in the core and my dd loves all the books. We are going to notebook our way through it though, add cooking, crafts, and documentaries using this site that has a documentary for every SOTW chapter: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&key=0AumgWD14ZCPSdGNRQVVjeVotbjcwVlByV3pPS2xJRlE&hl=en_US&gid=0

 

And I'll use this blog as well: http://sotw-videolinks.blogspot.com/2012_04_01_archive.html

 

I'm in the process of making a wall timeline in our foyer......this should be fun!

I think as long as you make what you are learning engaging then you will retain it!

Thanks!

[buttacol]

Another thing to think about is how much do you actually remember from your own schooling in middle school, and high school. I can honestly say, I don't remember a whole lot of history or science detail.

 

But I learned to write well, and think critically. I think sonlight is an excellent curriculum for learning to read thoughtfully, and express ideas. Combine that with solid writing programs like IEW, and a good grammar program, and you have a hit.

 

And even more importantly, sonlight gives you lots of flexibility to pick and choose what to study, when, and how much to do.

[ktgrok]

Another thing to think about is how much do you actually remember from your own schooling in middle school, and high school. I can honestly say, I don't remember a whole lot of history or science detail.

 

But I learned to write well, and think critically. I think sonlight is an excellent curriculum for learning to read thoughtfully, and express ideas. Combine that with solid writing programs like IEW, and a good grammar program, and you have a hit.

 

And even more importantly, sonlight gives you lots of flexibility to pick and choose what to study, when, and how much to do.

 

Not only don't I remember much from the class, I've forgotten entire classes. I had to post on facebook to have someone remind me if I even took a world history class! I had NO memory of it, at all. I also don't remmber taking an english class in 10th grade, although surely I must have?

[SkiMom]

My children retain what they are interested in, regardless of the delivery method.

 

My daughter enjoys history and literature and has no trouble retaining what she learns with Sonlight. She loves the stories and remembers things we read about years ago in PreK. She's also used reader anthologies and history textboooks, and learns just as well from them because she likes history and literature.

 

My son is not interested in history and literature so he doesn't retain much. I've tried helping him retain more by using literature based methods. I've tried textbooks with lots of repetition, worksheets and tests. I've tried adding in fun activities, puzzles, games, crafts, and hands on projects. I've tried using oral narration and discussions. I've tried requiring lots of written work. I've tried musical memory cd's. I've tried movies. I've tried field trips. I've tried letting him choose topics that he wants to learn about. What I've learned is that none of these things helps him retain the information because he simply isn't interested. He would much rather be doing science experiments, playing on the computer, or riding his bike. He just isn't interested in history or literature. Is it the result of using a literature based method? No. Its just how my son is. That being said, my son actually has retained a few things over the years, and it comes out in surprising ways and at surprising times, and never when I'm actually asking him about it. :lol: It seems that there were tidbits that momentarily sparked his interest, and he does remember them. Sadly, they are few and far between, but there are some!

 

What I do appreciate about Sonlight is that the books are rich, and there are so many of those tidbits for a child to latch onto. I really noticed this when we tried using textbooks for awhile. Textbooks just didn't have the depth that the Sonlight literature does. Also, Sonlight builds a lot of repetition into their programs, and they cycle through world history several times over the years. This will also help with learning and retention. So despite my son's lack of interest and retention we are continuing with Sonlight. Out of everything we've tried I know it will give him a rich, varied exposure to history and literature and will provide a great opportunity for him to pick out something that interests him.

 

Hope this helps. :001_smile:

[kymomof3]

Wow! I hadn't checked this in a while. More food for thought. I had ordered one unit of TOG last summer to try and I was completely overwhelmed by it. Maybe I didn't give it a fair shake, but it was overload to my very naturally unorganized self! Is there anything comparable to TOG that breaks it down for someone like me? I'm terrible at planning.

[higginszoo]

It depended on the child, here, too. My oldest still remembers some books that we read, and we did the early cores younger than recommended. My middles were older, and don't remember any of it. We didn't continue with SL, because it just wasn't clicking with enough of the dc, and it was too much of my budget to buy new cores for the one child, especially once they closed the forums to new core owners and subscribers only.

[Murrayshire]

Thanks for the link to the documentaries on Netflix! You've saved me some time here.

 

Lisa

 

I was thrilled to have found these as well by another WTM'er!!

 

So glad you've found my video links, and I hope they prove helpful to you! Just wanted to let you know that I have finished all 42 chapters! I've used all of these videos with Sonlight G with my 5th and 7th graders. It's been a great add-on for my kiddos.

 

Feel free to share!

 

Yay!! I can't wait for my dd to watch these! I've been watching them ahead because I can't wait myself! Are you thinking of doing this same thing with SL H??;)

Thank you, thank you!!

 

Thanks!

 

You are welcome.....thank the creator though, too! That would be LSmoll...

[KAM]

We are on our 2nd year of SL. My two older ones (11 and 9) have used all of core C and half of core D. I am really amazed at how much they have retained- they are always bringing up things we read about last year and are able to relate so many new things to stuff we've already read. And I have learned and retained so much myself! I definitely think it is enough.