Men in womens' restrooms....

[st_claire]

I think this is often why people end up talking at cross-purposes. I can think "yes, it makes sense for a man in the process of becoming a woman to use the women's restroom" and still know that *legislating* an anti-discrimination law with regard to sexual orientation and restroom use is *fraught* with difficulties as far as practical application goes.

 

 

I agree that it shouldn't be legislated. But if we allow our gov to make laws about anti racism, then we should allow laws that are anti transphobia.

[st_claire]

When I first started reading this, I thought there was a law stating all restrooms, etc, were going to be unisex in CO now, and I had to go to the law and read it to see that that isn't true.

 

You know, this really is about human rights. How do you think the gay, transgendered, etc people have felt having to be in locker rooms, bathrooms, etc, with men who have probably mocked, bullied, ignored or worse them all their lives? Think of high school, where you they would possibly have been treated worse than any other time in their lives? Think of a health club, where anything could have happened, or where they might have been afraid to go? Think of public restrooms, where, again, they probably had to think twice before being willing to go? I am from NYC but now live in VA, not the most populated place, but I find it hard to use a bathroom in a store without other people being in there--I wouldn't be too worried about being in there with a man, because I'm pretty sure another woman would be in there, and I doubt the man would be peeking around a door with women in there. As for locker rooms, no, I wouldn't take a shower in one with a man, not if my daughter or I would be exposed to a man, but, with my own (blobby) body issues, I don't like taking them in front of women very much either. If it bothered me, I could always drive home in my swimsuit, and my dd in her's, and we could shower at home (oh, the horror of missing a tiny locker room shower!). If that were the price I'd pay to make other human being feel more comfortable in their lives, I would do it.

 

And, again, please let me repeat, I am from NEW YORK CITY!! A more paranoid mom does not exist! My daughter does not go in my front yard or out my front door without me! (and we live in a really good neighborhood/area). But, just as moms everywhere have to let their boys go to bathrooms and locker rooms alone, which I know must be terrifying, is it any worse to have your daughter with you in one where a man may be?

 

I think you aren't seeing the bigger picture from their point of view, ladies, just the smaller picture from your own.

 

Kiran

 

 

:iagree: Great post.

[Mrs Mungo]

I agree that it shouldn't be legislated. But if we allow our gov to make laws about anti racism, then we should allow laws that are anti transphobia.

 

I really think these are different issues.

 

I mean, you could reverse the argument you have given and say "if they can't use the men's room without being harrassed then punish the harrassers."

[TraceyS/FL]

I mean, you could reverse the argument you have given and say "if they can't use the men's room without being harrassed then punish the harrassers."

 

:iagree:

 

Let's fix the underlaying problem.......

[st_claire]

I really think these are different issues.

 

I mean, you could reverse the argument you have given and say "if they can't use the men's room without being harrassed then punish the harrassers."

 

I agree harassers should be punished, but not seeing how my arguments suggest they shouldn't be.

 

Also not seeing the difference between racism and transphobia. Bigotry is Bigotry.

[Mom to Aly]

The underlying problem is that a sad portion of people are insecure and cruel to anyone different from themselves, and will take any opportunity to humiliate, torture, or even physically harm them to make themselves feel better about their pitifully unfulfilled lives. And there are not enough police or authorities in this country or world who can or will help, so saying punish the harrassers, the torturers, the people who commit hate crimes, who hang nooses, who beat up gay people, etc, etc, etc, does not do it, at least not here, as I'm sure you can see if you read any newspapers. Crimes like that are on a huge uprise, and as the "moral majority" increases their numbers, and churches increase their condemnations, the crimes skyrocket. How does that make sense?

[RebeccaC]

self edited

[Spy Car]

I'm trying to imagine the alternative.

 

What does a person do when their attire (and sense of gender identity) doesn't match their chromosomes, and they need to use a rest-room?

 

Should we demand that a person who wears a dress and tries in all respects tries to live as a "female" use a Mens room because they were born XY?

 

To me this seems cruel.

 

We were asked about our moral compass in another thread, well my morality and my reading of the "Golden Rule" is we ought to show kindness toward those who already have a difficult enough path, and make this simple accommodation.

 

Bill

[Mom to Aly]

I'm trying to imagine the alternative.

 

What does a person do when their attire (and sense of gender identity) doesn't match their chromosomes, and they need to use a rest-room?

 

Should we demand that a person who wears a dress and tries in all respects tries to live as a "female" use a Mens room because they were born XY?

 

To me this seems cruel.

 

We were asked about our moral compass in another thread, well my morality and my reading of the "Golden Rule" is we ought to show kindness toward those who already have a difficult enough path, and make this simple accommodation.

 

Bill

 

 

:iagree: Can you imagine how difficult their lives are anyway? They have lived their entire lives feeling different, often having to hide who they were, how they felt, from their own family, friends, loved ones, why should we make their lives any harder? This is such a small step for them, who are we to say no?

 

Anyway, thank goodness, it isn't up to us.

[SusanG]

Let's stay close together for safety. I think we're probably alone in this crowd.

 

 

Add me to the bunch - I just found this thread, and I'm right there with you.

[SusanG]

I'm trying to imagine the alternative.

 

What does a person do when their attire (and sense of gender identity) doesn't match their chromosomes, and they need to use a rest-room?

 

Should we demand that a person who wears a dress and tries in all respects tries to live as a "female" use a Mens room because they were born XY?

 

To me this seems cruel.

 

We were asked about our moral compass in another thread, well my morality and my reading of the "Golden Rule" is we ought to show kindness toward those who already have a difficult enough path, and make this simple accommodation.

 

Bill

 

I agree 100%.

[HRAAB]

I just came back and read the rest of the messages. I didn't realize what the intention of the bill was when I read the OP. I think I'm more concerned with 'legislation', than with a transgendered person using whichever restroom they feel more comfortable with.

 

I'll have to think on this one.

 

Janet

[Fourmother]

When I was kid I watched a lot of old black and white movies on TV. Lots of them used "man in the ladies room" as a gag. Inevitably, the women would run screaming from the bathroom as if they had seen a monster. I always thought it was pretty stupid, and I guess I still do. Don't most men and women use the same bathroom at home? Does something evil come over the average man in the bathroom, turning him into some kind of untamed, sex-starved beast? I really don't see how a guy waiting to use a stall, or discreetly using a urinal is a great threat to anyone. As for pedophiles, they are just as dangerous in single sex bathrooms as they would be in unisex ones. After all, they already molest boys in the men's rooms. Maybe all kids would be a little safer if we had the watchful eyes of mothers in all the bathrooms.

 

My big concern here is the fact that there just aren't enough "family" restrooms in public places. Logistically, what is a father supposed to do when he has to take his young daughter to the bathroom? What about caregivers of the elderly or the disabled who don't happen to be the same gender as their charges? These can still be very awkward situations, and that is a terrible shame in this day and age.

[Parrothead]

Maybe we need four types of restrooms. M/F/MTF/FTM

 

Barring that, everyone can just go at home before they leave.

[genie]

Add me to the bunch - I just found this thread, and I'm right there with you.

 

Same here.

[Jenny in Atl]

I've used unisex bathrooms in the US and abroad. I never felt uncomfortable or even looked at. In fact, they were cleaner than the old "standard" ones. I'm uncomfortable with the fact my husband can't take our seven year-old to a public restroom; she would have to go in alone. Thankfully, her big sister in usually in toe and can go in with her. I agree, there needs to be more choice! Family bathrooms!

[Karen sn]

So explain this to me. A lesbian can shower next to your daughter, but a gay male cannot? Who is more likely to oggle her?

 

I'd like to assume that people aren't going around oggling underage girls. And if, god forbid, you should be next to a perv in the shower, you are just as at risk as your daughter is. Basically make sure she knows self defense. Bad things can happen anywhere.

 

Lesbians and oogling.....the connection please?

[Karen sn]

wrong spot

[Karen sn]

Well then - I have a question. What about the rare individual who is born with female AND male genitalia....where do they get to pee?

 

I myself have been in many a college bar where the line to the girls potty was a mile long. I chose to use the boys' bathroom - in and out in under 2 minutes - no big deal......I did not oogle anyone.

[genie]

My number one reason for wishing for unisex bathrooms? So women could finally get over our issues with doing certain natural things in the place that was built for them to occur. It never ceases to amaze me that men can just so easily go in and let what needs to happen happen without any embarrassment. How many times have we held what we needed to do, because right or wrong, women just don’t like doing that in public? How many times have we waited on someone else to flush so we could let a little (or a lot of) gas escape? How worried are we that someone might walk in and smell something? Heaven forbid!

 

Do men worry about those things? Heck no! So if there were men in our bathrooms, they would already stink, there would already be plenty of sounds filling the air, and we could do what we needed to do when we needed to do it!

 

 

 

(I can’t believe I’m really posting this…:blushing:)

[Fourmother]

I think it's disgusting, and a sign of where we're headed.

 

"Where are we going and what's up with this handbasket???"

:smilielol5:

First of all, every time I see this expression it cracks me up.

 

 

ETA- the more I think about this the madder I get.........the first time some guy walks into the women's bathroom and I'm in there I'm going to make a huge scene, so find your earplugs ladies. And woe to the man who walks in on my dds.

Now what if that man was escorting his young dd to the bathroom? What about a man with his elderly grandmother? Will you make a scene and have security throw them out? Family restrooms are not available in MOST public places, and often toddlers and seniors can't "wait" for a caretaker to go out of the way to find one. On the other hand, what about some guy leering at your son in the men's room? Girls aren't the only potential victims of sexual abuse.

[Mom to Aly]

I've used unisex bathrooms in the US and abroad. I never felt uncomfortable or even looked at. In fact, they were cleaner than the old "standard" ones. I'm uncomfortable with the fact my husband can't take our seven year-old to a public restroom; she would have to go in alone. Thankfully, her big sister in usually in toe and can go in with her. I agree, there needs to be more choice! Family bathrooms!

 

 

This brings up two points to me--I lived in France for a year, and there were a few unisex bathrooms there, and they were great, clean and no one had a prob.

 

The second was the biggest to me--when my ex had my daughter alone, first when she was a babe, changing tables were ONLY in ladies bathrooms, and he went in to them a few times to change them, first making sure no one was in there, but he had no choice. When she was older, he had to take her into nasty men's rooms because someone in Macy's threatened to call the cops on him if he took her (when she was 6) into the ladies room (and she was about to have a huge accident)--believe me, she was much more scarred by that than she would have been by standing next to a man on line in a unisex bathroom!

 

As for the smells and stuff--hey, most of us have or have had hubbys and dads, right?

[bkpan]

but I just find myself sitting here shaking my head at how far we have come? Sometimes it just feels like I went to sleep and the world was so different when I woke up.. and I am only 44yo!

 

When did women want so much to be like men? And want to pretend that there just really isn't all that much different between us?!? We want to behave the same in the potty as they do???

 

 

I. want. to. be. different! I want my daughter to glory in her femininity. I want my boys to not be the least bit ashamed of their masculinity! How very confused this society is!!!

 

Sorry, I may be reacting emotionally, but I am bewildered sometimes. I'm sure I"ll get in trouble for this, but the collective we just seems to have come to this conclusion that people are born in the wrong bodies and that we "accept" this idea as fact?? Sorry, I don't. I feel terribly sorry for those whose gender on whatever level has reached this state of confusion, but perhaps "we" are helping this along? Women wanting to be so much like men, instead of really savoring our differences. And lest, you think I am a skirts-only, denim jumper wearing female, I am not. Jeans mostly. My point is more of the spirit.

 

Where is chivalry? And why would women want it to die? I love that my dh gets my car door, and always seeks to be a gentleman. If we take away the last corners of modesty, what are we left with? Not a society I am comfortable in, nor do I want my dc to be comfortable in. There is beauty in the mystery of femininity and in letting men truly honor women. I just do not understand why women seem to be the ones most eager to destroy this.

 

Maybe I'm just rambling now, and if so forgive me. I'll probably delete this later when I come to my senses. I really feel like someone shouting in the wind. This is NOT the direction I wish our world would head....

 

Kim

[Mom to Aly]

My number one reason for wishing for unisex bathrooms? So women could finally get over our issues with doing certain natural things in the place that was built for them to occur. It never ceases to amaze me that men can just so easily go in and let what needs to happen happen without any embarrassment. How many times have we held what we needed to do, because right or wrong, women just don’t like doing that in public? How many times have we waited on someone else to flush so we could let a little (or a lot of) gas escape? How worried are we that someone might walk in and smell something? Heaven forbid!

 

Do men worry about those things? Heck no! So if there were men in our bathrooms, they would already stink, there would already be plenty of sounds filling the air, and we could do what we needed to do when we needed to do it!

 

 

 

(I can’t believe I’m really posting this…:blushing:)

 

 

 

:w00t:

 

:smilielol5:

 

This is toooooo funny!!!! Glad you did post it!!

[Mrs Mungo]

This brings up to points to me--I lived in France for a year, and there were a few unisex bathrooms there, and they were great, clean and no one had a prob.

 

I lived in Europe several years too and I agree the unisex bathrooms in most of Europe were not a problem. However, most bathrooms in Europe have attendants that you tip every time you use the restroom. If we had such bathroom monitors/cleaners in the US I would see less of a potential problem.

[Laura K (NC)]

1. Smell.

2. Odor.

3. Pee on the seats.

4. Pee on the floor. (I live with three sons and a husband. I KNOW what co-ed bathrooms are like.)

5. Graffiti. (I've been in unisex bathrooms in gas stations. The graffiti is way, way, way more nasty in men's rooms than in women's rooms.)

6. Malfunctioning stall doors.

7. Missing stall doors.

8. Putting on makeup.

9. Men don't wash hands after using the bathroom.

10. Crime. Men are more likely to steal your purse hung on the door.

11. There are no benefits for either men or women. Men will have to wait longer to get to a stall. Women will have to bring their own disinfectant and wait even longer.

12. Feminine hygiene products. I could not rip open a maxi-pad (did you ever notice how noisy they are?) knowing there was a man in the next stall.

13. I think separation and differentiation of the sexes is a good thing overall, especially when it comes to excretion.

14. Where will women go to talk about their boyfriends on a double date? :confused:

15. Need to check if you have a blood stain on your pants? Not in the androgyn's room, you won't. Adjust your bra, slip, or underpants? Better not.

16. No more urinals. Please.

17. I know some men have "stage fright," especially older men, and I can't imagine this getting any better if a girl is in the room.

18. There's nothing wrong with modesty and old fashioned mystique. Imagine Doris Day in the stall next to Jack Nicholson, farting and grunting.

19. Restrooms in fancier places will never go co-ed. The preservation of society will be even more pronounced with the more money one makes, and the degradation of society will be evident to the masses, leading to a greater divide between rich and poor.

20. Many restrooms also have nursing areas with easy chairs. I'm all for nursing out in the open, but some nursing areas are actually quiet, comfortable, and a lovely respite.

21. Did I mention odor, pee on the seat, and pee on the floor? :ack2:

[bkpan]

1. Smell.

2. Odor.

3. Pee on the seats.

4. Pee on the floor. (I live with three sons and a husband. I KNOW what co-ed bathrooms are like.)

5. Graffiti. (I've been in unisex bathrooms in gas stations. The graffiti is way, way, way more nasty in men's rooms than in women's rooms.)

6. Malfunctioning stall doors.

7. Missing stall doors.

8. Putting on makeup.

9. Men don't wash hands after using the bathroom.

10. Crime. Men are more likely to steal your purse hung on the door.

11. There are no benefits for either men or women. Men will have to wait longer to get to a stall. Women will have to bring their own disinfectant and wait even longer.

12. Feminine hygiene products. I could not rip open a maxi-pad (did you ever notice how noisy they are?) knowing there was a man in the next stall.

13. I think separation and differentiation of the sexes is a good thing overall, especially when it comes to excretion.

14. Where will women go to talk about their boyfriends on a double date? :confused:

15. Need to check if you have a blood stain on your pants? Not in the androgyn's room, you won't. Adjust your bra, slip, or underpants? Better not.

16. No more urinals. Please.

17. I know some men have "stage fright," especially older men, and I can't imagine this getting any better if a girl is in the room.

18. There's nothing wrong with modesty and old fashioned mystique. Imagine Doris Day in the stall next to Jack Nicholson, farting and grunting.

19. Restrooms in fancier places will never go co-ed. The preservation of society will be even more pronounced with the more money one makes, and the degradation of society will be evident to the masses, leading to a greater divide between rich and poor.

20. Many restrooms also have nursing areas with easy chairs. I'm all for nursing out in the open, but some nursing areas are actually quiet, comfortable, and a lovely respite.

21. Did I mention odor, pee on the seat, and pee on the floor? :ack2:

:iagree::iagree: Well said!

 

Kim

[st_claire]

Lesbians and oogling.....the connection please?

 

I was trying to point out that the other poster was assuming everyone was straight, which they very well might not be. She said that men would oogle her daughter. I said that a lesbian might just as easily.

[Fourmother]

1. Smell.

2. Odor.

3. Pee on the seats.

4. Pee on the floor. (I live with three sons and a husband. I KNOW what co-ed bathrooms are like.)

5. Graffiti. (I've been in unisex bathrooms in gas stations. The graffiti is way, way, way more nasty in men's rooms than in women's rooms.) ...

 

 

I don't really disagree with anything on this list, nor do I have a strong desire to go to the bathroom with a dude around. But (beating a dead horse here) I still don't feel that the needs of dads with daughters and caregivers of the elderly or disabled are addressed by this argument. I keep drumming this point because I cannot always be present when dd needs to use a public bathroom. Sometimes her father MUST take her. Once when she was 3 yo we had a rather lively "discussion" because he let a strange woman take her into the ladies room. He was so self conscious about taking her himself and felt the men's room was too dirty. (Rest assured. After our "discussion" he will never do this again.) It's really a shame that a father can't feel comfortable taking care of his daughter's physical needs in a public setting. Yes, there should be "family" restrooms. But it's unrealistic to think that every mall, grocery store, gas station, and golf course is going to spend the money to install them.

[wagnfun]

I heard about it on our local Christian radio station about a month ago. I really think there's no point and that it should be repealed. I don't think we need to even go there about safety...how about just sticking with what's real. A man is a man, no matter how he "feels" or dresses. A woman is a woman etc.... Keep them in separate bathrooms please!

 

But yes, I do think this is going to hit everywhere. Didn't California start having unisex bathrooms in some of the schools?

 

Yes and Az also BUT.... they are more like 5 tiny closets in a row w/ the sinks on another wall. Think like family bathrooms at the malls It is one big open room so the teacher can stand by the sinks. I've seen it work and it was fine.

[st_claire]

 

Sorry, I may be reacting emotionally, but I am bewildered sometimes. I'm sure I"ll get in trouble for this, but the collective we just seems to have come to this conclusion that people are born in the wrong bodies and that we "accept" this idea as fact?? Sorry, I don't. I feel terribly sorry for those whose gender on whatever level has reached this state of confusion, but perhaps "we" are helping this along? Women wanting to be so much like men, instead of really savoring our differences. And lest, you think I am a skirts-only, denim jumper wearing female, I am not. Jeans mostly. My point is more of the spirit.

 

 

From your post it seems that you really don't understand what transgender is about. They are not confused. They are not women who want to be like men, or men who want to be like women. They are men and women who are born with the wrong genitals. That's all. I suggest you do some reading on the subject.

 

 

I'm very glad to see that several other trans-positive posters have commented :) Great to see we are not as small a minority as I thought here.

[Mrs Mungo]

But it's unrealistic to think that every mall, grocery store, gas station, and golf course is going to spend the money to install them.

 

Small places would be better off having a 2 or 3 unisex restrooms that are individual rooms instead of stall-style restrooms. The upkeeps on individual rooms is easier, anyway.

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm very glad to see that several other trans-positive posters have commented :) Great to see we are not as small a minority as I thought here.

 

I don't think everyone who is arguing the other side is "trans-negative." Some of us are opposed to an overly broad piece of legislation and have not expressed feelings or opinions on trans-gendered people.

[mommybee]

The second was the biggest to me--when my ex had my daughter alone, first when she was a babe, changing tables were ONLY in ladies bathrooms, and he went in to them a few times to change them, first making sure no one was in there, but he had no choice. When she was older, he had to take her into nasty men's rooms because someone in Macy's threatened to call the cops on him if he took her (when she was 6) into the ladies room (and she was about to have a huge accident)--believe me, she was much more scarred by that than she would have been by standing next to a man on line in a unisex bathroom!

 

 

 

I hate when I hear stuff like this....it's so sad that people would be so selfish to not notice a dad and daughter in need of a bathroom and the sensitive nature of a 6 year old to have to go and to have women humiliate her by overreacting like that.

 

To me it's such a different situation and whenever I have seen a dad and daughter I don't have an issue with him needing to change a baby or take a little girl in to go.

[Fourmother]

When she was older, he had to take her into nasty men's rooms because someone in Macy's threatened to call the cops on him if he took her (when she was 6) into the ladies room (and she was about to have a huge accident)--believe me, she was much more scarred by that than she would have been by standing next to a man on line in a unisex bathroom!

 

This is exactly why my dh let a stranger take dd to the ladies room once. Now he's more afraid of my reaction, than the cops. Who is a 3 yo safer with in a public bathroom, a strange woman or her own father?

[Mom to Aly]

...the collective we just seems to have come to this conclusion that people are born in the wrong bodies and that we "accept" this idea as fact?? Sorry, I don't. I feel terribly sorry for those whose gender on whatever level has reached this state of confusion, but perhaps "we" are helping this along? Women wanting to be so much like men, instead of really savoring our differences....

 

...Where is chivalry? And why would women want it to die?

 

 

I think you have totally the wrong idea here. This isn't someone waking up one day and saying, "Gee, my life isn't hard enough, so let me make a choice to be gay or transexual, just to make it that much harder! Let me choose a lifestyle where my loved ones might not accept me, where society might not accept me, where I am putting myself in danger all the time (yes, danger, because we all know people are killed all the time in hate crimes), where I might not get a job/apartment/house because of my sexual preference, where people might see me as, or call me, a freak, where their church leaders might condemn me, and where I can't even stand up and marry the person I love because people who don't think I have that right won't look away, but want to fight me on it!".

 

This isn't a matter of chivalry, this is a matter of basic human rights--of allowing a person to go to the BATHROOM in the room that they feel comfortable!!! If you deny them this, then you can say you really don't feel comfortable with them sitting in the same restaurant with you, because they might have touched the glass you used, or sneezed in your direction.

 

Of course, if they are on the same public transport, that could be a prob too, but maybe it is better if they sit in the back, so they don't have to walk past you.

 

And maybe we should call them "black", because they are so different from us.

 

This sounds so familiar--the "blacks" can sit on the back of the bus--the "blacks" shouldn't eat in our restaurants''--the "blacks" shouldn't use our bathrooms.

 

This is basic human rights, people. I've been in ladies rooms where there has been pee on the seat, all over it (can someone explain that one to me??) and on the floor--I've been in some that stink, and, I'm sorry, when you have your period and don't flush??? Ick--think of a man having to walk in on that. None of that is really at issue here. What is at issue is not how we feel about sharing a bathroom!!! It is the right of these people to feel comfortable with themselves, and have the basic right of where they go to the bathroom!!!!

 

 

Oops, didn't mean for this to sound angry (maybe too many exclamation points?). Sorry if it does. Again, grew up in NYC, lived in Greenwich Village, went to NYU, seen it all, never an issue to me, I guess it always surprises me when it is so much of one for others.

[HRAAB]

I wonder if this legislation could actually cause more prejudice and hate crimes against transgendered people. People that are prejudiced in their views will probably become more angry. These people need protection from prejudice and hate crimes, but passing more laws could be counter productive.

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

Janet

[Spy Car]

I wonder if this legislation could actually cause more prejudice and hate crimes against transgendered people. People that are prejudiced in their views will probably become more angry. These people need protection from prejudice and hate crimes, but passing more laws could be counter productive.

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

Janet

 

Janet, I do wonder where we would be as a society if we let the fear that prejudiced people might get angry hold us back from extending civil rights protections through legislation.

 

Bill

[bkpan]

I think you have totally the wrong idea here. This isn't someone waking up one day and saying, "Gee, my life isn't hard enough, so let me make a choice to be gay or transexual, just to make it that much harder! Let me choose a lifestyle where my loved ones might not accept me, where society might not accept me, where I am putting myself in danger all the time (yes, danger, because we all know people are killed all the time in hate crimes), where I might not get a job/apartment/house because of my sexual preference, where people might see me as, or call me, a freak, where their church leaders might condemn me, and where I can't even stand up and marry the person I love because people who don't think I have that right won't look away, but want to fight me on it!".

 

This isn't a matter of chivalry, this is a matter of basic human rights--of allowing a person to go to the BATHROOM in the room that they feel comfortable!!! If you deny them this, then you can say you really don't feel comfortable with them sitting in the same restaurant with you, because they might have touched the glass you used, or sneezed in your direction.

 

Of course, if they are on the same public transport, that could be a prob too, but maybe it is better if they sit in the back, so they don't have to walk past you.

 

And maybe we should call them "black", because they are so different from us.

 

This sounds so familiar--the "blacks" can sit on the back of the bus--the "blacks" shouldn't eat in our restaurants''--the "blacks" shouldn't use our bathrooms.

 

This is basic human rights, people. I've been in ladies rooms where there has been pee on the seat, all over it (can someone explain that one to me??) and on the floor--I've been in some that stink, and, I'm sorry, when you have your period and don't flush??? Ick--think of a man having to walk in on that. None of that is really at issue here. What is at issue is not how we feel about sharing a bathroom!!! It is the right of these people to feel comfortable with themselves, and have the basic right of where they go to the bathroom!!!!

 

 

Oops, didn't mean for this to sound angry (maybe too many exclamation points?). Sorry if it does. Again, grew up in NYC, lived in Greenwich Village, went to NYU, seen it all, never an issue to me, I guess it always surprises me when it is so much of one for others.

 

Now, how in the world do you go from a woman wanting to use the restroom in private... to not wanting to share a bus with a homosexual...black...???:confused::confused:

 

Your post took a number of leaps that had no connection to mine. How about "forcing" a young girl to share a restroom with grown men? Isn't there some inherent unfairness involved there as well?? Whatever internal conflicts are going on in a transgendered person's mind does not change the fact of a male wanting to share a restroom with females. Not to the other women involved. How is this "fair" to them? Why are they not allowed to protect their modesty by having a private place to go within a public setting? And if a man wanted to protect his wife, mother, daughter, using a public restroom by not allowing another man to enter the restroom they are in? My understanding is that THEY can be prosecuted and jailed for denying THEIR rights? Where does this end?

 

Kim

[dragons in the flower bed]

Whatever internal conflicts are going on in a transgendered person's mind does not change the fact of a male wanting to share a restroom with females.

 

It does change the fact. It changes it from a male wanting to share a restroom with females to a female wanting to share a restroom with females. It's not just your reproductive system that makes you male or female. One's brain can be male or female as well, and I am speaking in terms of physical, material structure, not abstract feelings and thoughts. Research on this began in the sixties and has been used by conservatives to justify the biblical view of different roles for men and women. It's a fascinating study, and I'd highly recommend reading further.

[Mom to Aly]

Now, how in the world do you go from a woman wanting to use the restroom in private... to not wanting to share a bus with a homosexual...black...???:confused::confused:

 

No, my point is you are denying them from using a bathroom which the law in CO says they should be able to use, just as they did with blacks, why not extend it so a bus, or a restaurant, or anything else you or someone else might not feel comfortable with?

 

If you don't feel comfortable using a bathroom with a man present, you don't have to. Because the question here is not really about whether you do or not, the question is about that person's right, as a human being, to be allowed to go where they feel comfortable, whether or not you understand their sexuality or not. It is not a preference, it is not a choice, it is their sexuality. Just as you did not DECIDE to be heterosexual, they did not decide to be homosexual or transexual. They have a right to feel comfortable in their choice of bathroom, locker room, etc, and just because some people don't feel comfortable with that choice doesn't mean you should get to block them from it.

 

Just as, years ago, because some people didn't feel comfortable with the color of some people's skin, they could block them from certain things. It is all the same in the end. And we are all the same in the end. We are not male or female or black or white human beings. We are human beings. And we should all have the same rights. And that includes feeling comfortable in our choices without others trying to judge us or control us. As someone else said, if you don't like it, go before you leave, or hold it until you get home, just as I'm sure many of them have had to do for years.

[*anj*]

I know I'm chiming in on page 10 or something.

I haven't yet read all of the posts.

But for those in favor of unisex bathrooms, I have one question:

 

When was the last time you walked into a men's room? I am totally serious. Have you been in a men's public restroom? They are disgusting. They smell bad and they are dirty. There are a lot of men in the general public who do not know how to aim and they leave evidence of that all over the place. I have no desire to share public lavatories with men. I barely want to share one with my own sons, but at least I am training them!!!

[genie]

I know I'm chiming in on page 10 or something.

I haven't yet read all of the posts.

But for those in favor of unisex bathrooms, I have one question:

 

When was the last time you walked into a men's room? I am totally serious. Have you been in a men's public restroom? They are disgusting. They smell bad and they are dirty. There are a lot of men in the general public who do not know how to aim and they leave evidence of that all over the place. I have no desire to share public lavatories with men. I barely want to share one with my own sons, but at least I am training them!!!

 

Those bathrooms obviously need a woman's touch! :D

[dragons in the flower bed]

I know I'm chiming in on page 10 or something.

I haven't yet read all of the posts.

But for those in favor of unisex bathrooms, I have one question:

 

When was the last time you walked into a men's room? !

 

:) I have completely ignored that aspect of this thread, so I will chime it to say, I think there are better solutions. Like stalls that you can't see through. Or bathroom attendants. Or any number of things that we still shouldn't be paying our legislators to come up with.

[Mom to Aly]

When was the last time you walked into a men's room? I am totally serious. Have you been in a men's public restroom? They are disgusting.

 

 

Again--those are the superficialities of it--not what is really at stake here. What is at stake is the rights of these individuals. And us not trying to violate them because of our own problems/concerns.

[*anj*]

Oh, I know! I have the perfect solution!

You know those mandatory "health" classes that they have in ps?

Well maybe part of the hygiene coursework should include teaching boys to get their urine into the (as my father used to call it) commode.

Maybe they should be taught to put the seat up when they go.

Maybe they should be taught to put it back down when they're done.

Maybe they should be taught that if they splash anywhere, they should clean up after themselves.

 

That would make a huge difference.

Maybe yet another mandatory class would bring about change.

 

Ya think?:001_huh:

 

 

 

 

 

Nah!

[*anj*]

Again--those are the superficialities of it--not what is really at stake here. What is at stake is the rights of these individuals. And us not trying to violate them because of our own problems/concerns.

 

Nope, not for me. I know this thread took a whole different turn, but I'm not in it for that. I'm not talking about transgendered people or lesbians or hermaphrodites or any of those individuals. I'm talking about the fact that there are lots of men who leave messes behind after using the restroom. We have all been to places where there is only one bathroom, a toilet and a sink in a closet basically. I have entered those bathrooms after men have walked out and I have been disgusted. That is what I'm talking about.

[dragons in the flower bed]

We have all been to places where there is only one bathroom, a toilet and a sink in a closet basically. I have entered those bathrooms after men have walked out and I have been disgusted. That is what I'm talking about.

 

I've never been in a men's restroom, so I can't compare, but in my experience, women's rooms are just as gross as unisex rooms. Now, in Europe, with the attendants, and the fee to get in -- those were nice bathrooms.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Small places would be better off having a 2 or 3 unisex restrooms that are individual rooms instead of stall-style restrooms. The upkeeps on individual rooms is easier, anyway.

 

Mrs Mungo, I can't rep anyone anymore, but thank you for arguing with me even when I got so overwhelmed by my passion for a related topic that I ditched the point and the logic and ran off with a tangent. You've been gracious, thoughtful, respectful, and smart, and provided a wonderful distraction from my laundry tonight. And I am slightly embarassed to put that in a post instead of a rep box, but I'll be ought of town by the time I have rep again and I don't want to forget.

[Mom to Aly]

Well, yes, but again, I've seen some nasty women's ones, although, really, not as nasty as men's. You know, my god daughter has a friend who's community service (for stealing beef jerky from a Wa-Wa) is to clean the bathrooms at a county jail--maybe that could be something prisoner's have to do at night--don't you think we might have a lot less theft if they had to do stuff like that? Because our local B&N had some NASTY women's bathrooms! OOOHHHH--and you can smell them down like three rows sometimes!!!! sorry--I guess I'm being a little superficial here--lol ; )