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Please come whine with me about your own foreign language failures... or help me think this through... both are good.

 

We're finishing 2nd grade now and I have yet to get foreign language in gear. I know I'm not alone, but I feel guilty. The other day while I was helping Mushroom memorize his Shakespeare lines, I actually sat there giving (a completely unhelpful to the child) lesson in conjugating verbs for thou that was met with a very confused, blank look. I mostly wanted to smack myself for not having done some foreign language. Just something...

 

So I'm trying to think about next year, but I don't know how I want to address it.

 

I'm not on board with Latin (sorry, hardcore classical folks) - I don't know it and I'm not swayed by the arguments for teaching it.

 

I did French all through school and if I got a decent French program, I'm sure I could teach it. My French isn't great, but my accent and grammar are solid enough that with the right program it would be fine for elementary school for a few years. But French is so useless. I mean, why French? I don't even care that I speak French! Would that I could go back in time and tell my 11 yo self that French is a waste of time!

 

The other language I speak is Mandarin Chinese. There it's the opposite problem. I think Chinese would be useful, but I don't trust my Chinese well enough to teach it, even if I were to shell out for a decent program.

 

Speaking of useful, Spanish would obviously be useful and there would be good materials and plenty of neighbors to practice on... but I don't know a bit of Spanish and dh, who took it through school, says no way could he teach it. I guess we could learn it together...?

 

We could do a class, but they're so expensive! We used to do a very affordable Chinese program, but then they changed the teachers and it became very problematic. Now we haven't been back in years and I think counting to ten and saying ni hao is probably about the extent of my language poor kids' Chinese. Oh, zenmeban?!?

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When my children were in the preschool/early elementary stage, I made a point to do Spanish with them. Honestly, I wanted them to become fluent, and I was trying to catch that early window for learning languages, etc. Even though my experience had been with French, I chose Spanish because of the availability of resources for it in my community.

 

In addition to occasional Spanish co-op classes and workbooks, I noticed that our public library had a section of children's picture books written in Spanish (i.e. "Goodnight Moon" and "Brown Bear, Brown Bear, What Do You See?") I began checking out these kinds of books and reading them out loud to the kids just like any other book. I soon learned that bookstores carried similar books and built up a small library of my own, and we eventually progressed to where the children could read them to me. Our library also had a bilingual "Story Time" - and it worked well for helping us hear more Spanish. I guess I was trying for some natural immersion.

 

We had a Spanish-speaking family move in next door, and yep, I went over to the fence, Spanish-English dictionary in hand, and invited them to come over and play and get acquainted.

 

So I'm all for doing what you can to learn languages early on. And I'd say use what you have available - Spanish will probably be easiest to come by, but in D.C. you may be able to find other options, too.

 

Good luck!

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One thought is that you could teach French for one year because it is something you know. That would give you a feel for where it fits in the day, perhaps spark interest in your dc in learning a (any) language, and there is carry-over, right? You learn vocabulary, the concept of noun-gender, some conjugating, cognates and false-cognates, etc. and all that carries over to some degree even if you switch opportunistically to another (romance) language. Plus, if you are teaching it yourself, it might be helpful to keep it as easy to teach as possible.

 

If you decide to go with Spanish or Mandarin, you might try to find someone to come to your house to teach it for an hour once (or twice!) a week. Graduate student? Spouse of graduate student? Adult education teacher with daylight hours on his/her hands? It is a low-key way to start, they can plan activities and topics, you can often get a reasonable price, with more flexibility than a formal class. Then you can supplement on other days with your own activities - computer program, books, games, stories, whatever. That way it will definitely get done at least once (or twice!) a week. :D

 

This is another area where it is good to have thought about your goals. Fluency requires some serious dedication and resources. Functional knowledge of the language probably requires persistence over time more than anything else (?) Building a store of vocabulary is still valuable and maybe just needs a variety of exposure... I'm sure there are other possible goals I'm not thinking of.

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But French is so useless. I mean, why French? I don't even care that I speak French! Would that I could go back in time and tell my 11 yo self that French is a waste of time!

 

French is the second most important of the official UN languages, so "useless" may be exaggerating just a little bit. :lol:

 

But don't look to me for success stories. My kids are between two and three years delayed in language. Both of our languages. :glare:

 

 

Rosie

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There has to be a cheap, Saturday class for Mandarin in DC. Here, the Saturday class is really designed for 2nd generation chinese, whose parents speak Mandarin and can help with the homework but who want someone else to organize the approach/program for them. There are non-chinese in these classes, just not many because the parents can't help with the homework so the kids can't keep up. Since you speak Mandarin, you could go with your children to improve your accent and help them at home with the homework over the week. Here, a year's worth of classes cost about $150 per child. They are obviously not a for-profit business, but full of chinese who want to pass on their knowledge to the younger generation.

 

If you have the money, obviously a tutor is the way to go. We have decided to pay more now for a tutor to get the tones correct while they are young (we don't speak mandarin), and then switch them to a cheaper classroom program when they are older.

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited by lewelma
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There has to be a cheap, Saturday class for Mandarin in DC. Here, the Saturday class is really designed for 2nd generation chinese, whose parents speak Mandarin and can help with the homework but who want someone else to organize the approach/program for them. There are non-chinese in these classes, just not many because the parents can't help with the homework so the kids can't keep up. Since you speak Mandarin, you could go with your children to improve your accent and help them at home with the homework over the week. Here, a year's worth of classes cost about $150 per child. They are obviously not a for-profit business, but full of chinese who want to pass on their knowledge to the younger generation.

 

These weekend language schools are a fantastic deal. My kids attend a German one, but there are tons of Chinese ones around here (and a few other languages, I'd think). They do assume that there's a parent at home that speaks the language at least to some extent, but since you do, it would be a great way to go.

 

Often they have classes for the adults who want to improve their own skills at the same time. And the other great thing these schools offer is a peer group of other kids learning the language, many of whom speak the second language quite well.

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There are... but they take practically all day Sunday, are WAY out in the Netherland of suburbia where we almost never go, and interfere with church. And I kept thinking about what a bad experience we had with the laoshi at the program we had done before. Originally it was run by Americans fluent in Chinese who chose the teachers and designed the program. Then they left to work at the Chinese bilingual charter school and it was run instead by different Chinese teachers... who clearly knew nothing about children. They gave my kids completely inappropriate homework and just had them copying characters without ever having taught or introduced stroke order or anything. All the kinesthetic, musical, interactive parts of the program got dropped. It wasn't even like they were doing it the Chinese way - it was just a random hodgepodge. And I got scared that's what it would be like at the Sunday schools...

 

I think it's the fact that we wouldn't be able to go to church that really clinches it for me though. :(

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I don't mean to be idiotic or argumentative, but is there really only ONE option? In my much smaller and not very Asian influenced town, there are several Chinese schools, offering different dialects.

 

I also don't think there's anything wrong with learning a little French. At least being able to pronounce "croissant" and "pain" correctly has its uses, and the exercise of learning a language, any language has value, in my opinion.

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And I got scared that's what it would be like at the Sunday schools...

 

 

Are you sure all the Chinese schools are on Sunday? We have two Chinese schools nearby; one is on Sunday, but the other is on Friday evenings. I think there are others nearby too. Our German school is on Saturdays.

 

If you're in DC, there must be a large Chinese community, and multiple schools. I live in the 'burbs of a smaller city than DC, and there are many Chinese schools (and I would guess a few in the city itself).

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but is there really only ONE option?

 

I was wondering the same thing. DC is huge. Ours is held at the local university on Saturdays from 2 to 4. They have multiple classes for different levels of students that run concurrently.

 

Ruth in NZ

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When I researched it awhile back, I think I found four or five that were all way out in suburbia (different places, but all more than half an hour out) on Sundays. There was one that was closer in one of the close suburbs, but it was also on Sundays. It may be there are more... but even all day Saturday means we can't do soccer or softball, which my kids would really hate. That's a tough choice for us.

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I also don't think there's anything wrong with learning a little French. At least being able to pronounce "croissant" and "pain" correctly has its uses, and the exercise of learning a language, any language has value, in my opinion.

 

Yeah, I know. I was kinda mean to French, huh? Pardonnez-moi, mes amies. I just didn't find much use in it in my life. I suppose my step-sister would disagree - she lived in Cameroon for awhile and minored in French in college. And it would, indeed, be the path of least resistance for me to just teach French. I'd need to do some relearning, but it would have been way more useful for that lesson I was giving trying to teach Mushroom to conjugate for thou... You are, thou art, you see, thou seest, you do, thou dost... I think he thought I was on another planet, or that William Shakespeare was...

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When I researched it awhile back, I think I found four or five that were all way out in suburbia (different places, but all more than half an hour out) on Sundays. There was one that was closer in one of the close suburbs, but it was also on Sundays. It may be there are more... but even all day Saturday means we can't do soccer or softball, which my kids would really hate. That's a tough choice for us.

 

Why the heck are they all in the suburbs? Here I am living in the suburbs, and have been driving 45+ minutes each way for the last 9 years - all the way into the middle of the city - to go to the German school (which unlike the Chinese schools, is the only one around). Yes, my kids have forgone team sports for this, but my kids aren't the team sports type anyhow. There are other things it's been a bit of a bummer to have to pass on, but you can't do everything...

 

I do agree there's nothing wrong with French, either. When I worked in business, the two most important languages for me to know were German and French - never used my Spanish at all.

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Yes, it's odd, right? But there are apparently several in Rockville and Springfield - both quite a haul for me, though in opposite directions. Usually being right in the city is good... but not always, I guess.

 

I guess it's just about choices... if I was really committed, we'd have made it work.

 

Dh and I had an animated discussion about this tonight. He argued strongly for Spanish but when I said, well, maybe you should relearn Spanish and teach them, he changed his tune. He says he was always dreadful at languages in school. I always thought they were fun myself - I did Russian and Italian in high school for pleasure and I used to study Welsh on my own... Not that I remember any of it (well, if you need to have a conversation about which one is the table and chair in Russian, I can still recall that lesson, but otherwise...) but it was fun at the time... but now my brain is old. Sigh. It would probably serve me well to learn Spanish too...

 

Clearly I'm in too many directions.

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Yeah, I know. I was kinda mean to French, huh? Pardonnez-moi, mes amies. I just didn't find much use in it in my life.

 

But these are little boys you're talking about. I learned a few random Spanish words in elementary school, and learned more usable Spanish in college from having Spanish speaking friends and watching unsubtitled telenovelas with them. I didn't take it in high school or college, but I can understand some Spanish, which I think is vaguely useful. I took French in college for a year just for fun, which enabled me to take two current affairs / lit classes while in grad school also just for fun that had zero to do with my work there, but were beneficial to my understanding of the world. I think encouraging an openness to language, even without obvious utilitarian value, is good.

 

I'd totally sign my kids up for Chinese but they're kind of busy with two others right now. I would like them to learn some of those sounds while they're young!

 

I think you need to rethink the idea that you're locking them into a language for life. It's good to know how to pronounce some French, you don't want the ugly American accent "parlay voo fransay?", do you? ;)

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Having seen your blog that you travel abroad, and having travelled ourselves to Costa Rica over the last several weeks, I realize now that even knowing a variety of vocab is very useful when traveling. I plan to do Atin with my kids, but also work on learning the language of the country we hope to go to next. Even if it is just vocab, it has it's place.

 

I'm just realizing that fluency doesn't have to be the goal for languages in the short term.

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I'll commiserate with you.

 

I speak both Spanish and French at a mildly proficient level, and can read both even better than I speak. DD is very, very interested in learning both. And yet..... :glare: She understands a little French and a little Spanish, but not anywhere near what she could.

 

Life has just gotten in the way, and we've been unable to do language consistently lately.

(I've only been trying to teach her French, the little bit of Spanish she's picked up on her own.)

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I have been down this road as well. We dabbled in Latin this year, but we're not going to continue on that path. We've been trying to decide between French and Spanish. Spanish, yes, would be more useful where we live. However, I took four years of French in school and although I haven't spoken it for some time, I think it would come back to me quickly.

 

We have decided to go with French, at least for a couple years, primarily because I am familiar with it. I told DS that when he reaches middle school age, he can decide to continue only with French, or keep up his French then add Spanish or another language of his choosing. I agree that it isn't so much what language you teach, but the ability to learn a language and all that goes with it, that will give them an advantage.

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Please come whine with me about your own foreign language failures... or help me think this through... both are good.

 

We're finishing 2nd grade now and I have yet to get foreign language in gear. I know I'm not alone, but I feel guilty. The other day while I was helping Mushroom memorize his Shakespeare lines, I actually sat there giving (a completely unhelpful to the child) lesson in conjugating verbs for thou that was met with a very confused, blank look. I mostly wanted to smack myself for not having done some foreign language. Just something...

 

So I'm trying to think about next year, but I don't know how I want to address it.

 

I'm not on board with Latin (sorry, hardcore classical folks) - I don't know it and I'm not swayed by the arguments for teaching it.

 

I did French all through school and if I got a decent French program, I'm sure I could teach it. My French isn't great, but my accent and grammar are solid enough that with the right program it would be fine for elementary school for a few years. But French is so useless. I mean, why French? I don't even care that I speak French! Would that I could go back in time and tell my 11 yo self that French is a waste of time!

 

The other language I speak is Mandarin Chinese. There it's the opposite problem. I think Chinese would be useful, but I don't trust my Chinese well enough to teach it, even if I were to shell out for a decent program.

 

Speaking of useful, Spanish would obviously be useful and there would be good materials and plenty of neighbors to practice on... but I don't know a bit of Spanish and dh, who took it through school, says no way could he teach it. I guess we could learn it together...?

 

We could do a class, but they're so expensive! We used to do a very affordable Chinese program, but then they changed the teachers and it became very problematic. Now we haven't been back in years and I think counting to ten and saying ni hao is probably about the extent of my language poor kids' Chinese. Oh, zenmeban?!?

 

You definitely are not alone...and I think you're beating yourself up too much, too soon. If the kid were in 8th or 9th grade and you were having this conversation...

 

Funny--my two languages are French and Mandarin, also, but I am actually more confident in spoken Mandarin than in French. It's just not as useful in building awareness within our own language system because it's so stinkin' different. I do think there is great value, however, in learning a language that does not have a Romantic / Germanic base, but at this stage of the game you will be building a stronger foundation, since there are so many links between English, Latin, French, both linguistically and culturally.

 

I say go with the language you have the most confidence in, in this case French. There are a couple of reasons for this: One, you can pronounce it and refresh your memory as you teach the elementary levels, and two, it will pave the way for Spanish later and possibly Latin if you should decide to pursue it in the future. Spanish after French is a breeze. French is not a breeze no matter what.

 

The way I got my kids to be interested in French was by reading them stories that they already knew in English. I went online and bought Goodnight Moon, The Very Hungry Caterpillar, Frog and Toad, One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish, The Cat in the Hat, Guess How much I Love You, etc. I started reading the books to them in French as bedtime stories, and they LOVED it! I would read it in French, and then one of them would follow along in English. We would read each book night after night and after a few times I wouldn't let them use the English version anymore. Then I would stop them and ask, "Ou est l'ours? Qu'est-ce c'est la grande chambre vert?" and they would answer by pointing. Other times I would have them repeat after me.

 

I then began a simple French curriculum, which I won't necessarily recommend to you because I'm not sure I love it (it's not bad, I just don't love it) and bought Usborne's 1001 French Words (LOVE!). Once a week we have an afternoon French class with some other friends who come over to work on all of this with us. It has been one of our favorite elements of our school year.

 

HTH...Don't beat yourself up. Just have fun with it, and you'll enjoy dusting off the ol' French files in your own brain, as well.

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Please come whine with me about your own foreign language failures... or help me think this through... both are good.

 

We're finishing 2nd grade now and I have yet to get foreign language in gear. I know I'm not alone, but I feel guilty. The other day while I was helping Mushroom memorize his Shakespeare lines, I actually sat there giving (a completely unhelpful to the child) lesson in conjugating verbs for thou that was met with a very confused, blank look. I mostly wanted to smack myself for not having done some foreign language. Just something...

 

So I'm trying to think about next year, but I don't know how I want to address it.

 

I'm not on board with Latin (sorry, hardcore classical folks) - I don't know it and I'm not swayed by the arguments for teaching it.

 

I did French all through school and if I got a decent French program, I'm sure I could teach it. My French isn't great, but my accent and grammar are solid enough that with the right program it would be fine for elementary school for a few years. But French is so useless. I mean, why French? I don't even care that I speak French! Would that I could go back in time and tell my 11 yo self that French is a waste of time!

 

The other language I speak is Mandarin Chinese. There it's the opposite problem. I think Chinese would be useful, but I don't trust my Chinese well enough to teach it, even if I were to shell out for a decent program.

 

Speaking of useful, Spanish would obviously be useful and there would be good materials and plenty of neighbors to practice on... but I don't know a bit of Spanish and dh, who took it through school, says no way could he teach it. I guess we could learn it together...?

 

We could do a class, but they're so expensive! We used to do a very affordable Chinese program, but then they changed the teachers and it became very problematic. Now we haven't been back in years and I think counting to ten and saying ni hao is probably about the extent of my language poor kids' Chinese. Oh, zenmeban?!?

 

Well, if you feel like driving out to Arnold, MD. every Thursday, you could try out our Chinese class :)

 

Before we started taking the class, I used betterchinese.com b/c I felt like you, even though I used to be pretty fluent in Mandarin, I haven't kept it up so well, so I didn't feel confident teaching it. I feel like Better Chinese is GREAT for people like us!

 

Now that we are in this class, we are using MeiZhou Chinese, b/c that is what the teacher picked. It's also a good program, but the rest of the parents, who DON'T know Chinese, have a hard time helping the kids with their homework. But I think it's great. It's a lot more advanced than I would be using, but the teacher is a native, she's better at it, LOL.

 

Honestly, we just didn't do foreign language (Latin or Chinese) as regularly as we should have before the class. Having a weekly class forces practice and forces you to get homework done. So, I would try as hard as possible to find a class. Other than that, check out betterchinese.com. They have an online subscription program that is great for the kids :)

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Honestly, we just didn't do foreign language (Latin or Chinese) as regularly as we should have before the class. Having a weekly class forces practice and forces you to get homework done. So, I would try as hard as possible to find a class. Other than that, check out betterchinese.com. They have an online subscription program that is great for the kids :)

 

:iagree:

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But don't look to me for success stories. My kids are between two and three years delayed in language. Both of our languages. :glare:

 

Rosie

 

I used to babysit for this family who had a French mom & a German dad. The parents spoke very limited English, but the kids were enrolled in English preschool/school.

 

At 3, the kids weren't speaking anything.

 

At 5, they spoke, but it was a jumbled mess. They would often ask me for stuff, but the sentence would be part French, part German, part English. No sense of subject/verb agreement, tenses, etc.

 

Then suddenly at like 7, they spoke beautifully in all 3 languages. Switched to the appropriate language depending on who they were talking to, verbs were correctly conjugated, etc.

 

I watched all 3 kids go through this exact same progression.

 

Don't give up yet! :)

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Well, if you feel like driving out to Arnold, MD. every Thursday, you could try out our Chinese class :)

 

Before we started taking the class, I used betterchinese.com b/c I felt like you, even though I used to be pretty fluent in Mandarin, I haven't kept it up so well, so I didn't feel confident teaching it. I feel like Better Chinese is GREAT for people like us!

 

Now that we are in this class, we are using MeiZhou Chinese, b/c that is what the teacher picked. It's also a good program, but the rest of the parents, who DON'T know Chinese, have a hard time helping the kids with their homework. But I think it's great. It's a lot more advanced than I would be using, but the teacher is a native, she's better at it, LOL.

 

Honestly, we just didn't do foreign language (Latin or Chinese) as regularly as we should have before the class. Having a weekly class forces practice and forces you to get homework done. So, I would try as hard as possible to find a class. Other than that, check out betterchinese.com. They have an online subscription program that is great for the kids :)

 

If I'm (like a baby) moaning about hauling myself out to Rockville, I probably can't make it to Arnold, but I wish I could! What you describe is exactly what I should do. Everyone here has convinced me that I ought to look harder. I did look, but it was :blushing: when the kids were in K, so that was almost two years ago.

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If I'm (like a baby) moaning about hauling myself out to Rockville, I probably can't make it to Arnold, but I wish I could! What you describe is exactly what I should do. Everyone here has convinced me that I ought to look harder. I did look, but it was :blushing: when the kids were in K, so that was almost two years ago.

 

I totally understand. I remember when I first started looking for Chinese classes... and I thought, "Oh, there will be TONS of options in DC!!" But there really wasn't. I think most of the Chinese population lives out in the 'burbs. DC Chinatown kinda stinks after all ;)

 

And yes, I remember finding a Chinese school in College Park and a GREAT one in Columbia, but they were both on Sunday's from like 1:00 - 5:00 p.m. which would mean go straight from church, eating a pack lunch in the car, and spending the rest of the day in Chinese.... there is just no way we could do that. I mean, technically we COULD, but we would be miserable.

 

We lucked out with this class b/c our CC director recently adopted a little girl from China and through that she was introduced to this woman, they became friends, etc. and they talked about it, and since she was also a SAHM, and a Christian, she decided to do the class (and at a low cost!) as her ministry. She's wonderful. She has two young kids of her own, and teenage step children, so she knows how to deal with the kids. There have been a few kinks to work out, like figuring out how she wanted the class to go, but she does a good job and DS is learning a lot.

 

In your situation..... I would probably contact one of the many Universities in DC and try to find either a Chinese student, or a Chinese major, who wanted to earn some money as a tutor/teacher. I don't know if it would work, but I would try :)

 

Good luck!!

 

And if you can't do Chinese.... I would just figure out what classes were being offered, that I could make, in ANY language... just to get them learning A foreign language. The most important thing is to develop those brain pathways.... then later on, Chinese (or Spanish, French, etc.) will come easier :)

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