What are my logic stage history options?

[mo2]

Sigh. I've been putting this off but I can't avoid it any longer. I need to decide on a logic stage history program. Here's our situation:

 

Dd10, who will be going into 5th, is currently reading through the SOTW books. She will definitely not have finished all the volumes by fall, though. This is pretty much the only "formal" history she's had, for various reasons that I won't go in to.

 

What I need:

- Secular. This is a biggie. Also, we are very liberal, if that matters.

- Chronological.

- No cutesy cut-and-paste activities or things like that.

- Map work would be great.

- I need it to be all planned out for me. I work full time, my next kid will be starting K this year, and I also have a toddler.

- Fairly independent.

- I would like it to include some writing assignments.

 

 

I really, really like what I see of K12 Human Odyssey. But it isn't scheduled for me. I would have to come up with the writing assignments and any additional reading myself.

 

I like how History Odyssey is laid out, but I'm not sure how well I would like Story of Mankind. If I could align the K12 text to the HO lessons, that would probably be ideal. The writing in HO might be a bit much at times but I could tweak it.

 

I kind of want to incorporate the Take A Stand books from Classical Historian. They just look fun. But I think these can be used with any spine.

 

And then I looked at Connect the Thoughts, but I'm not sure I get it. :confused: I looked at the lower school level, and it didn't seem very challenging. Haven't looked at the upper school levels yet.

 

Okay, so that's where I'm at....a big, confused jumbled mess. Can anyone help me make sense of it? Offer review on any of the programs I mentioned above? Any programs I haven't looked at yet? :bigear:

[redsquirrel]

Do you own TWTM? It has a very well laid out history plan for you to follow. If you do some searches in this forum on history you will find lots of posts about how it works. I think there was one yesterday.

 

And FWIW, we are a secular homeschooling family and I find logic stage history as set out by TWTM to be very, very doable.

[Melissa B]

Oak Meadow 6

[mo2]

Oak Meadow 6

 

So it looks like OM combines history and English? How does that work? Is it mostly history, with some writing assignments and such thrown in, or what? Sorry, I've never really looked at OM much.

[mo2]

Do you own TWTM? It has a very well laid out history plan for you to follow. If you do some searches in this forum on history you will find lots of posts about how it works. I think there was one yesterday.

 

And FWIW, we are a secular homeschooling family and I find logic stage history as set out by TWTM to be very, very doable.

 

Thanks. It has been a long time since I've read the logic stage section. I'll look at it again.

[redsquirrel]

It has been a long time since I've read the logic stage section. I'll look at it again.

 

If it has been so long that the 3rd edition has come out you may want to consider upgrading. It is my opinion that the logic section had the biggest overhaul when the 3rd edition came out. I didn't compare word for word, but it seems streamlined and easier to use in the 3rd edition.

 

TWTM logic stage history is more about method than materials. So you could use the Oak Meadow materials but use them as put forward in TWTM. It gives you a lot of freedom.

[robsiew]

We used HO this past year with my 5th grader. He enjoys history and it's been extremely independent for him. I've seen a lot of people complain about Story of Mankind, but he hasn't had any trouble with it. I asked him what he thinks and he says it's interesting. Now, he reads just about anything put in front of him so that could have something to do with it. He will be using HO again next year.

[mo2]

We used HO this past year with my 5th grader. He enjoys history and it's been extremely independent for him. I've seen a lot of people complain about Story of Mankind, but he hasn't had any trouble with it. I asked him what he thinks and he says it's interesting. Now, he reads just about anything put in front of him so that could have something to do with it. He will be using HO again next year.

 

Thank you. My dd *HATES* to read. How I managed to produce a child that dislikes reading is beyond me, but it is what it is. Learning to read was difficult for her. So whatever we use, we will likely be sharing the reading.

[Susie in CA]

Is there a reason why you can't just continue using SOTW since she hasn't finished it.

 

Here is how we have done this in the past:

 

1. Read a chaper or section in SOTW. Write a summary on one of the sections.

2. Do the map work form SOTW.

3. Read appropriate section in any encyclopedia. Make a fact list. List events on timeline.

4. Any extra reading, projects, documentaries etc. you want. My kids always loved projects and cooking.

 

Imho, history doesn't have to be a lot of reading. If your dd does not like to read I would try to minimalize that. If you have her work through the encyclopedia and read SOTW that should be fine. Then have fun with her DOING history. Don't make it drudgery. We usually do a lot of talking when we do projects. My dss are 11 and 12 and we still do projects because that is when they stay with the subject matter, and we are able to talk about all the reading.

 

I hope this makes sense.

[mo2]

Is there a reason why you can't just continue using SOTW since she hasn't finished it.

 

Here is how we have done this in the past:

 

1. Read a chaper or section in SOTW. Write a summary on one of the sections.

2. Do the map work form SOTW.

3. Read appropriate section in any encyclopedia. Make a fact list. List events on timeline.

4. Any extra reading, projects, documentaries etc. you want. My kids always loved projects and cooking.

 

Imho, history doesn't have to be a lot of reading. If your dd does not like to read I would try to minimalize that. If you have her work through the encyclopedia and read SOTW that should be fine. Then have fun with her DOING history. Don't make it drudgery. We usually do a lot of talking when we do projects. My dss are 11 and 12 and we still do projects because that is when they stay with the subject matter, and we are able to talk about all the reading.

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

I will have to give this some more thought. I wasn't sure if SOTW was *enough* for logic stage, you know?

[Kalmia]

We use K-12 Human Odyssey in the WTM style (written narrations, outlining, timeline, and biography sheets). In my opinion it is a great secular text for logic stage. You can supplement the American History years with Joy Hakim's A History of US.

[Susie in CA]

I will have to give this some more thought. I wasn't sure if SOTW was *enough* for logic stage, you know?

 

Well, I think it will be fine since you are not starting at the beginning with it. The reading level of SOTW does increase with each level. You can also add more books to it if you want.

[mo2]

Well, I think it will be fine since you are not starting at the beginning with it. The reading level of SOTW does increase with each level. You can also add more books to it if you want.

 

Thank you.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Sigh. I've been putting this off but I can't avoid it any longer. I need to decide on a logic stage history program. Here's our situation:

 

Dd10, who will be going into 5th, is currently reading through the SOTW books. She will definitely not have finished all the volumes by fall, though. This is pretty much the only "formal" history she's had, for various reasons that I won't go in to.

 

What I need:

- Secular. This is a biggie. Also, we are very liberal, if that matters.

- Chronological.

- No cutesy cut-and-paste activities or things like that.

- Map work would be great.

- I need it to be all planned out for me. I work full time, my next kid will be starting K this year, and I also have a toddler.

- Fairly independent.

- I would like it to include some writing assignments.

 

 

I really, really like what I see of K12 Human Odyssey. But it isn't scheduled for me. I would have to come up with the writing assignments and any additional reading myself.

 

I like how History Odyssey is laid out, but I'm not sure how well I would like Story of Mankind. If I could align the K12 text to the HO lessons, that would probably be ideal. The writing in HO might be a bit much at times but I could tweak it.

 

I kind of want to incorporate the Take A Stand books from Classical Historian. They just look fun. But I think these can be used with any spine.

 

And then I looked at Connect the Thoughts, but I'm not sure I get it. :confused: I looked at the lower school level, and it didn't seem very challenging. Haven't looked at the upper school levels yet.

 

Okay, so that's where I'm at....a big, confused jumbled mess. Can anyone help me make sense of it? Offer review on any of the programs I mentioned above? Any programs I haven't looked at yet? :bigear:

 

Connect the Thoughts is secular, chronological, absolutly no cut and paste, some mapwork but not a lot:glare:. It is fairly independent, as for planning the student is encouraged to work at their own pace. Lots of writing, in fact this is where you should decide on the level to start your child at. If they are a great writer then go for the Upper level if not stick to the lower level at first. CTT is a "think for yourself" type of curriculum. It doesn't tell you why instead it asks you to figure it out. If you have questions that the website doesn't answer you can email the author directly or I can try to help.

Also there are a few people on here who have worked out a schedule for K12 HumanOdyssey (which I also use) that seem to work pretty well. Just search schedule and K-12 HO.

Edited April 14, 2012 by foxbridgeacademy

[~Amanda~]

history odyssey. This next year, I am using human odyssey with the history odyssey as the reading instead of story of mankind.

[mo2]

history odyssey. This next year, I am using human odyssey with the history odyssey as the reading instead of story of mankind.

 

Do you have a schedule for this? I would love to see it if you do!

[~Amanda~]

Do you have a schedule for this? I would love to see it if you do!

 

I have one that was shared with me that goes with the middle ages. I don't have one for ancients :)

[mo2]

Connect the Thoughts is secular, chronological, absolutly no cut and paste, some mapwork but not a lot:glare:. It is fairly independent, as for planning the student is encouraged to work at their own pace. Lots of writing, in fact this is where you should decide on the level to start your child at. If they are a great writer then go for the Upper level if not stick to the lower level at first. CTT is a "think for yourself" type of curriculum. It doesn't tell you why instead it asks you to figure it out. If you have questions that the website doesn't answer you can email the author directly or I can try to help.

Also there are a few people on here who have worked out a schedule for K12 HumanOdyssey (which I also use) that seem to work pretty well. Just search schedule and K-12 HO.

 

 

I looked at Connect the Thoughts but couldn't really get a good feel for it. I think I would want the lower school course (10yo), but it looked almost too easy.

[Karen in CO]

What time period do you want to cover? How important is history to you?

What the focus of the rest of your 5th grade year next year?

 

I also work full time and have a younger and need things well planned. My dd loves history, but we are much less formal than many here. For history work, my dd and I read and then we discuss. I love listening to her ideas of how things are related and discussing what we study with her. A lot of her other work is by necessity done independently, but I make sure we discuss history and ideas. This year we focused on philosophy and a history of ideas. We used some great resources like Sophie's World and have just started the Self Evident Truths series from MCT. We are simple. I read, and she listens then we talk. I don't have a schedule or a plan, just a stack of books. We read the amount that seems right for the day then talk for however much time I have left. This has been our best year of history.

 

I guess my suggestion is to look at why you want her to study history and what you want her to learn from it instead of just at plans and assignments.

[mo2]

What time period do you want to cover? How important is history to you?

What the focus of the rest of your 5th grade year next year?

 

I also work full time and have a younger and need things well planned. My dd loves history, but we are much less formal than many here. For history work, my dd and I read and then we discuss. I love listening to her ideas of how things are related and discussing what we study with her. A lot of her other work is by necessity done independently, but I make sure we discuss history and ideas. This year we focused on philosophy and a history of ideas. We used some great resources like Sophie's World and have just started the Self Evident Truths series from MCT. We are simple. I read, and she listens then we talk. I don't have a schedule or a plan, just a stack of books. We read the amount that seems right for the day then talk for however much time I have left. This has been our best year of history.

 

I guess my suggestion is to look at why you want her to study history and what you want her to learn from it instead of just at plans and assignments.

 

 

Thank you. She doesn't have much history under her belt, so I would like to start from the beginning with ancients. This year I plan to focus a lot on writing. Last year she really took of with reading, so this year we're going to work more on writing. I've got IEW sitting on my shelf, plus WWE 3, so I think a writing-intensive history program might be too much for her, which is what is holding me back from ordering History Odyssey. I'm afraid I would end up skipping a lot of the writing assignments, which is a good portion of the program. I really think we need to do a timeline. Map work is nice, but I don't know if I would consider it *necessary* for us. I would like to add in some documentaries and movies because she is a very visual person, but I have a hard time finding what we need and aligning it to our studies. That's one of the things that would be nice to have all planned out for me. Now, the big question was what do I want her to learn from it, and honestly, I don't know. I guess I just want her to *like* history. Because I don't. I was bored out of my skull in my history classes in school. And I don't know much history, which is a big part of why I'm uncomfortable trying to plan it myself.

 

Well, that was a lot of rambling, and thanks to everyone who has read and tried to help!

[foxbridgeacademy]

I looked at Connect the Thoughts but couldn't really get a good feel for it. I think I would want the lower school course (10yo), but it looked almost too easy.

 

That's what I thought too. I ended up waiting for a sale (like the one going on right now) and I purchased 1 course(lower school Egypt is around 11 dollars). The first few lessons are very easy then they build on each other. I do add readings from Oxfords WIAT and K12 HO. We will also be doing more activities that I think up next year for a more "interactive" experience. It works just fine as a stand alone or great as a guide. This is for the LS. My sister uses the UL and says there is a significant difference in difficulty. Another thing to keep in mind is that not only could you add to the readings you can also do more then 1 lesson per day. Some are very easy to combine with each other. We do most of the writing assignments as discussion questions or just verbally, the kids love it. It definately isn't boring.

[Diviya]

If you really just want her to like history, why not get Human Odyssey, assign a chapter a week, and discuss a bit? The writing is so engaging. This is what I'm planning to do, with hopefully, but not critically, some written narrations. This is how we've been doing SOTW this year and it's been great. They love it, it's simple so it gets done often, and their retention has been great. We've done only two related readings - Gilgamesh and a reselling of Beowulf that was phenomenal (by Robert Nye). Sounds a bit like heresy, but it works for us! Last year I planned out all the related activities and readings, and we did only four chapters the entire year!

Just a thought.

[HeidiKC]

We used HO Ancients last year for 5th and it was my son's favorite subject! I thought about doing something different this year and he protested, so we're doing Middle Ages. I have been very happy with it. I don't think he loves TSOM, but he hasn't complained about it. I think if she really hated it, you could plan ahead and use something from the library to supplement. It doesn't seem like it's used all that much.

 

HO is also nice because it is very independent, holding child's hand through outlining and other exercises. If you do history the TWTM way, you might have to help more with that. HO is a nice mix of history and literature, and some fun exercises thrown in.

 

We aren't into cut/paste, either, so I just skipped the History Pockets and got library books on the general topics with good pictures (to make it a big more "fun").

 

Writing - there really isn't that much writing in HO. Much less than I expected, and I was disappointed about that (because I was counting on it for writing!). I've seen others say the same thing. There is quite a bit of outlining, but in the Ancients level she really steps the kids through it - pretty much giving them the main topics, and they just have to add a couple of details for each. The "summaries" are mostly VERY short. Most of them are just a couple of sentences, because that is all the information in the book. There are a few that might be a half-page, but I don't remember anything longer than that. I ended up having him do a lot of summaries of additional books he read on the history topics since it was so little writing. Which was fine because I liked having him read a lot of great books from the library on the topics he was studying. And it was another type of writing skill - not just summarizing a page from the Kingfisher book, but outlining and summarizing an entire book (usually 1-2 pages).

 

DVDs - I scheduled many of these where I could find they matched up with our topic for the week. If you end up going with HO, I could see if I have it in a format to share - it sure wouldn't be anything fancy, something I'd have to throw together. And I'd rather not do if until you've made your decision! So let me know if you go with this and I'll see what I can do. I included documentaries as well as lots of old classics like "Jason and the Argonauts".

[~Amanda~]

We used HO Ancients last year for 5th and it was my son's favorite subject! I thought about doing something different this year and he protested, so we're doing Middle Ages. I have been very happy with it. I don't think he loves TSOM, but he hasn't complained about it. I think if she really hated it, you could plan ahead and use something from the library to supplement. It doesn't seem like it's used all that much.

 

HO is also nice because it is very independent, holding child's hand through outlining and other exercises. If you do history the TWTM way, you might have to help more with that. HO is a nice mix of history and literature, and some fun exercises thrown in.

 

We aren't into cut/paste, either, so I just skipped the History Pockets and got library books on the general topics with good pictures (to make it a big more "fun").

 

Writing - there really isn't that much writing in HO. Much less than I expected, and I was disappointed about that (because I was counting on it for writing!). I've seen others say the same thing. There is quite a bit of outlining, but in the Ancients level she really steps the kids through it - pretty much giving them the main topics, and they just have to add a couple of details for each. The "summaries" are mostly VERY short. Most of them are just a couple of sentences, because that is all the information in the book. There are a few that might be a half-page, but I don't remember anything longer than that. I ended up having him do a lot of summaries of additional books he read on the history topics since it was so little writing. Which was fine because I liked having him read a lot of great books from the library on the topics he was studying. And it was another type of writing skill - not just summarizing a page from the Kingfisher book, but outlining and summarizing an entire book (usually 1-2 pages).

 

DVDs - I scheduled many of these where I could find they matched up with our topic for the week. If you end up going with HO, I could see if I have it in a format to share - it sure wouldn't be anything fancy, something I'd have to throw together. And I'd rather not do if until you've made your decision! So let me know if you go with this and I'll see what I can do. I included documentaries as well as lots of old classics like "Jason and the Argonauts".

 

I am doing HO next year for Middle Ages; I would LOVE a movie list to go with it!! And my kids would be totally thrilled!! :lol:

[HeidiKC]

I am doing HO next year for Middle Ages; I would LOVE a movie list to go with it!! And my kids would be totally thrilled!! :lol:

 

OK, I'll get the list together, but it might not be until June! I just listed them on our weekly schedule.

 

Is there a place to post it here or somewhere else to share with people? I mean a website, etc.?

[mo2]

We used HO Ancients last year for 5th and it was my son's favorite subject! I thought about doing something different this year and he protested, so we're doing Middle Ages. I have been very happy with it. I don't think he loves TSOM, but he hasn't complained about it. I think if she really hated it, you could plan ahead and use something from the library to supplement. It doesn't seem like it's used all that much.

 

HO is also nice because it is very independent, holding child's hand through outlining and other exercises. If you do history the TWTM way, you might have to help more with that. HO is a nice mix of history and literature, and some fun exercises thrown in.

 

We aren't into cut/paste, either, so I just skipped the History Pockets and got library books on the general topics with good pictures (to make it a big more "fun").

 

Writing - there really isn't that much writing in HO. Much less than I expected, and I was disappointed about that (because I was counting on it for writing!). I've seen others say the same thing. There is quite a bit of outlining, but in the Ancients level she really steps the kids through it - pretty much giving them the main topics, and they just have to add a couple of details for each. The "summaries" are mostly VERY short. Most of them are just a couple of sentences, because that is all the information in the book. There are a few that might be a half-page, but I don't remember anything longer than that. I ended up having him do a lot of summaries of additional books he read on the history topics since it was so little writing. Which was fine because I liked having him read a lot of great books from the library on the topics he was studying. And it was another type of writing skill - not just summarizing a page from the Kingfisher book, but outlining and summarizing an entire book (usually 1-2 pages).

 

DVDs - I scheduled many of these where I could find they matched up with our topic for the week. If you end up going with HO, I could see if I have it in a format to share - it sure wouldn't be anything fancy, something I'd have to throw together. And I'd rather not do if until you've made your decision! So let me know if you go with this and I'll see what I can do. I included documentaries as well as lots of old classics like "Jason and the Argonauts".

 

 

I'm *pretty sure* I'm going to do HO. I'm going to print off the try-it-before-you-buy-it sample this weekend and start with that. If you would like to get together your list of movies, I would absolutely love to see it!

[HeidiKC]

I'm *pretty sure* I'm going to do HO. I'm going to print off the try-it-before-you-buy-it sample this weekend and start with that. If you would like to get together your list of movies, I would absolutely love to see it!

 

Yes, please see my post above. Probably June. It's going to take a while to assemble in one document. It's spread out across 38 weeks right now!

[mo2]

Yes, please see my post above. Probably June. It's going to take a while to assemble in one document. It's spread out across 38 weeks right now!

 

Thank you.

[Murrayshire]

I will have to give this some more thought. I wasn't sure if SOTW was *enough* for logic stage, you know?

 

Nobody has mentioned Sonlight Core G, I see. It uses the SOTW books 1-2, then for Core H it uses 3-4.....along with Usborne Encyclopedia of World History. We will be using the IG from 2011.....The 2012 IG now schedules in the Kingfisher book, too.

 

So, I just started homeschooling my 6th grader this year and we used SL Eastern Hemisphere.....she really wants to read the SOTW books!! We will keep a wall timeline, notebooking pages, use some crafts from the SOTW AG that seem to fit an older child, cooking, geography, and researching for biographies (maybe a handful).

 

We are picking and choosing from SL G's literature. She will be reading some of the RA's as readers.....AND I've chosen some books from CHOLL in the logic stage of ancients and middle to go along with her reading as well using the activity sheets.

 

I think that pretty much beefs up SOTW for logic! Plus, she is going to collect all this fun stuff in a notebook to look back at throughout the year!!

Hope this helps.....I'm no pro in homeschooling....I'm just doing what works and adding as we go!

[mo2]

Thanks. I'll look into it. :)

[lillehei]

I will have to give this some more thought. I wasn't sure if SOTW was *enough* for logic stage, you know?

 

We are doing SOTW during logic. We do it like this:

 

Day 1: Listen to audio of one chapter in SOTW, review questions, narration

Day 2: More review questions, mapping, test

Day 3: K12's Human Odyssey (found a SOTW 1 and HO list by member Kate in Arabia

Day 4: Video on lesson (we have Netflis, Discovery Streaming Plus, etc.)

She also reads a historical fiction every week to two weeks.

 

We have found tons of supplemental activities and ideas on this forum and online.

 

HTH,

Jen

[mo2]

Thanks for all the great ideas. I think I've come up with a sort-of plan. I'm going to do History Odyssey level 2 Ancients, and thanks to those who shared their schedules, we're also going to read SOTW vol 1. (I have a K'er, but my 5th grader will also be required to listen.) Couldn't afford to buy the Pandia Press timeline I was drooling over, so I made my own. I found lists that correlate Netflix movies with SOTW1, so we can add those in (dd is very visual). And, I think I am going to purchase the first Connect the Thoughts Lower School History course (only $10) and see if I can add in some discussion from that. If not, it will be easily dropped and I won't be out much. I also already own the SOTW AG so we can pull a few projects from there---just for fun.

 

Now, this may end up being too much, and I am totally okay with dropping bits and pieces when/if need be. And we won't do *everything* *every day*. And that's okay. :)

 

I want to thank you all for your help and suggestions.

[caelia]

This thread has been very helpful! I too am planning for Ancients for next year. My kids will be in 3rd and 5th. We already own all the SOTW stuff so I want to incorporate it, but I'm drawn to History Odyssey Level 2 (and the timeline!). Could you share where you found a list of Netflix videos that correspond with SOTW? My son likes to watch the documentaries.

[mo2]

I found them all by searching these forums, but here are the links I saved. Unfortunately, I don't remember who posted them, so I can't give credit where it's due!

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&key=0AumgWD14ZCPSdGNRQVVjeVotbjcwVlByV3pPS2xJRlE&hl=en_US&gid=0

 

And here...

http://app4.websitetonight.com/projects2/4/1/3/8/808314/uploads/Historical_Movies_and_Documentaries.pdf

 

Actually, her entire blog is very helpful...

http://runofthemillfamily.blogspot.com/p/story-of-world-resources-for-volume-one.html

 

Here is Miss Moe's schedule to line up SOTW and HO...

http://missmoe-thesearethedaysofmylife.blogspot.com/2009/11/sotw-and-history-odyssey-level-2.html

 

And I have another one that someone PM'd me.

 

Hope this helps!

[caelia]

Awesome, thanks!

[curriculumhoarder]

Nobody has mentioned Sonlight Core G, I see. It uses the SOTW books 1-2, then for Core H it uses 3-4.....along with Usborne Encyclopedia of World History. We will be using the IG from 2011.....The 2012 IG now schedules in the Kingfisher book, too.

 

So, I just started homeschooling my 6th grader this year and we used SL Eastern Hemisphere.....she really wants to read the SOTW books!! We will keep a wall timeline, notebooking pages, use some crafts from the SOTW AG that seem to fit an older child, cooking, geography, and researching for biographies (maybe a handful).

 

We are picking and choosing from SL G's literature. She will be reading some of the RA's as readers.....AND I've chosen some books from CHOLL in the logic stage of ancients and middle to go along with her reading as well using the activity sheets.

 

I think that pretty much beefs up SOTW for logic! Plus, she is going to collect all this fun stuff in a notebook to look back at throughout the year!!

Hope this helps.....I'm no pro in homeschooling....I'm just doing what works and adding as we go!

 

We're also doing Core G this coming year - 7th and 8th grades. I know my 8th grader will be adding in much of TOG D level to it (there's already a lot of overlap, so it isn't as much as it might appear). She is not excited about STOW, but we'll have Usborne and Kingfisher plus a lot of extra books. She'll probably do an abbreviated Core H during the summer and start on R level Year 1 TOG for 9th.