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What do you think of BJU in the middle grades?


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Dd did the Life Science middle school course online. It was a fabulous experience for her. Mrs. Vick is a wonderful science teacher. I plan on ds using BJU's science for 6th - 8th, just so he can have her as his science teacher. If you can at all afford online or dvds, she is one not to miss.

 

I used BJU English for 5th and 6th with dd and really enjoyed it; however, when I got to the 7th grade text, I was sorely disappointed. I felt that those earlier books had held my hand so well. I have a math degree, so English is not my thing! The 7th grade teacher's book was definitely written to a classroom teacher who is an English major. It was almost just an answer key. I felt that they really did away with a lot the diagramming, which I think is important. The writing instruction was minimal at the 7th grade level, too.

 

For grammar in the upper grades, I love Christian Light for 7th and up. Throughout the review exercises, there are page number references to an English Handbook. If dd misses something, I feel I can go right to the handbook and figure out why. I'll probably start ds in CLE by 5th or 6th so he's used to the format.

 

I've not actually seen the new editions of BJU Math for middle school, but looking at the samples online, they seem like good solid math books. I'm in BJU 4th now and will continue them as long as it keeps working. I have thought about Lial's BCM, but with ds part of a grade ahead, we may do both BJU's 8th and Lial's BCM.

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We loved BJU science in 6th and 7th (5th was ok). We switched to get a secular high school level physical science in 8th after buying Earth and Space and deciding we just weren't willing to spend the year there.

 

They've rewritten the Earth & Space new for this year. Won't help anyone using the videos (1 year lag), but the online samples look really, really good. The old one, well it was horrendous (personal opinion). I borrowed it from my SIL to look at for an extended period, and I was just left shaking my head, trying to figure out what child they were teaching with it. :confused:

 

The new BJU E&S science looks good enough, I'm thinking of having us use it for fall. :D

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They've rewritten the Earth & Space new for this year. Won't help anyone using the videos (1 year lag), but the online samples look really, really good. The old one, well it was horrendous (personal opinion). I borrowed it from my SIL to look at for an extended period, and I was just left shaking my head, trying to figure out what child they were teaching with it. :confused:

 

:lol::lol:

 

I loved the rest of middle school. I'm glad I'm not the only one who just couldn't stand Earth & Space. It was pretty, and dd (5th at the time) enjoyed the weather unit, but I resold it without using any of the rest after letting it sit on my shelves a few months. I'm glad to hear they have improved it.

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Check, but I think the new edition for the earth & space is 4th. There's a one year lag between when they publish the curriculum and when they complete the teaching of all the lessons for the video version. If you like what you see of the samples on the website, it will be exactly like that. Many people are perfectly happy. If you like the samples and think it will fit, you'll likely be just fine.

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I checked on the Earth & Space science. You are right, OhElizabeth...there is a 4th edition. BJU says it is a 1-2 year lag between new editions and new DVD teaching. I hope it is 1 year as my ds would be ready for it not this year, but the next.

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I checked on the Earth & Space science. You are right, OhElizabeth...there is a 4th edition. BJU says it is a 1-2 year lag between new editions and new DVD teaching. I hope it is 1 year as my ds would be ready for it not this year, but the next.

 

DIVE Science just came out with a course for Earth & Space Science. I'm not sure if you need a textbook with this one or not or if it is all included. But their other courses can be used with BJU.

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I checked on the Earth & Space science. You are right, OhElizabeth...there is a 4th edition. BJU says it is a 1-2 year lag between new editions and new DVD teaching. I hope it is 1 year as my ds would be ready for it not this year, but the next.

 

Ooo, that will be perfect for you then! I would *think* the DIVE would be correlated to the *old* BJU. But I haven't looked at it, probably ought to. Maybe it would work by rearranging? No clue. I just liked how read-able and thought-provoking the new edition looked.

 

Ok, I'm looking at the DIVE earth science. Has anyone actually DONE this? Is it good? It's coverage does roughly correlate to the new BJU text. Of course if you're doing DIVE, why bother with the BJU? Gotta look at it more. I'm just looking at the samples now.

Edited by OhElizabeth
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Ooo, that will be perfect for you then! I would *think* the DIVE would be correlated to the *old* BJU. But I haven't looked at it, probably ought to. Maybe it would work by rearranging? No clue. I just liked how read-able and thought-provoking the new edition looked.

 

Ok, I'm looking at the DIVE earth science. Has anyone actually DONE this? Is it good? It's coverage does roughly correlate to the new BJU text. Of course if you're doing DIVE, why bother with the BJU? Gotta look at it more. I'm just looking at the samples now.

 

The DIVE author will make a syllabus for any edition you want.

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  • 2 weeks later...

OhElizabeth, have you decided about the Earth Science? I just looked at the new BJU text. You are right...it is wonderful and so much better than the older edition. It is so much more readable and interesting. Do you think that it could be done independently? (since the DVD won't be available for a while yet)

 

What did you think of the DIVE Earth Science? Any more thoughts after looking at it in more detail?

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Well I can tell you what my dd is pressuring me to do, and you see what you think. She wants me to let her do the Physical Science this coming year (8th) with Mr. Harmon on the dvds, then do the Earth Science the following year with the dvds that will then be out. That means putting Earth Science on her transcript for high school, which wasn't my first choice. On the other hand, lots of schools still do. If I bump it up with extra reading, I don't see an issue. So that may be what we do. Sometimes I have these pangs of wanting to do something out of the box or really different. There may be a place for that later. Mr. Harmon is really clicking for her right now, and that's SO unusual, I hate to get in the middle of it.

 

Thanks for the tip on the sale btw. What they had at the convention was buying 6 individual courses on dvd and getting them half price. That let you combine and mix things up among kids. Alas, even with my SIL and I going together we couldn't get there. So we're going to see what other deals there are. But that was the kind of price (they said $199) that would basically be a deal-maker. $350 is sort of a deal-breaker, kwim?

 

Oh, I didn't get to look at the Earth Science much. We were there two days instead of three, and it went by SO quickly. What I saw I liked, and it was readable and reasonable enough that I have no doubt she could do it. I don't know about doing it without the videos. That's honestly a factor of the kid. She's at a place in life where a video really helps. It makes sure it gets done, and it makes the material more approachable for her. So I guess just look at your dc there. If he's already reading a science textbook happily for himself and learning that way, he'll be fine. If that hasn't worked out so well in the past, for whatever reason, then it wouldn't be a good path to pursue.

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Physical Science w/ Mr. Harmon is the other class we are considering. Do you know what kind of math would be needed for that class? I have heard that his class is wonderful, but very challenging. That makes me a little nervous. But, I guess we can adjust as we go through to make it work if we go that route.

 

My dd would benefit from a video type class right now also...that is one reason we are looking at BJU. As you were saying, that price is the deal maker. I could never do it without the sale.

 

Regarding the whole textbook thing...she has been working on Apologia for a while now (General Science) Because of the whole Lyme thing, I have been letting her just read it, so I am not sure what she is retaining. But, when she looked at their Physical Science that I had thought about for next year, she did NOT want to do it. She really likes BJU textbooks, though. I really like the accountability of the DVD classes...keeping her on track, etc. Also, if I waited until the next year to do the Earth Science, she and her brother could do it together. So, maybe it would be best to just wait.

 

The DIVE clip I saw of Earth Science looked pretty interesting, but I think I prefer BJU.

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We used the "old" BJU Earth and Space this year and loved it. The new one looks great too.

 

I personally do not care for BJU's Life Science. It is just too much info too fast. I remember looking at it a few years ago with a gf who taught biology in public school. She thought it was more ambitious than many high school texts. In fact, one of her recommendations to me was to use BJU's high school biology and cover it in 2 years, 8th and 9th. I didn't do that, but it would have been an interesting option.

 

I'm also not a big fan of their 7th and 8th lit programs. It was just a poor fit for us. Literature went from being a joy to being a chore. I was surprised by this because we really enjoyed their reading program.

 

BJU's english is excellent. I suppose it can get to be overkill with all the review after a while. But, like anything, you might have to tailor it to fit your dc's individual needs.

 

I've not used their math in middle school so I can't comment on it.

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Becky, I'll give you some unsolicited advice, and you do with it as you wish. If your dc is sick, I would *not* do the most challenging courses out there. If she's happy with just a textbook, do the Earth Science. (or do the Dive earth science) If you want the video, do the Dive earth science or BJU old edition on dvd. It doesn't make sense to push into the hardest material when she's sick. Is this going to be her 9th grade year? Then you have the additional issue of keeping grades and wanting those grades not to tank because she doesn't feel well enough to keep up with the material.

 

The bit we looked at of the BJU Physical science text was very dense, yes.

 

I'm with Holly on the lit. It's fine, but it's still selections. I got the 7th and used it as a book list. I've bought the first of the Janice Campbell Excellence in Literature guides for this coming year. She has enough (5) to go from 8th to 12th, and they're high quality, written to the student, open and go. It really takes a load off my mind. Then we're free to do as we wish for history, just reading a spine and discussing if we want. See I think we get in our minds this whole picture of how astounding and integrated everything has to be, then we get tired thinking about how we're going to make that happen, lol.

 

I haven't sorted my own stuff out fully. That's just where I'm at right now. The Excellence in Lit guides don't get mentioned much, but they really struck me as being the right step for the right time. Maybe she has sample pages you can see. If they seem a good fit, might help you think of some simple solutions to your dilemma. :)

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OhElizabeth, that is my gut about it, too. I am leaning toward the earth science. My dd was so discouraged by having to do two 8th grade years due to Lyme that she is all about doing "true high school" work. But, I think the physical science would be too much too fast. When I go to the Solutions meeting, I'll let my dd decide if she wants to do the dvd w/ old text or the new text w/o dvd.

 

I really like the idea of using the lit. as a book list! I am not familiar with the guides you mentioned. Do you have a link? I'd love to take a peek.

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http://everyday-education.com/literature/eng1.shtml This is the one I got. The first couple books are about the same level, and then next three take a jump up. If you don't want to do the first, go into the 2nd. I assume she has samples there. For us it's very straightforward. I also like the way she includes lots of links to encourage them to explore the lit other ways.

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Thank you, OhElizabeth. I'll check it out.

 

Holly, did you use the DVD's with Life Science and feel that it was too much too fast...or was that just your impression of the text when you looked at it? Did you actually use the text? I'm interested because I was considering doing Life Science for my 7th grade ds next year. He hasn't done a lot of challenging science, so I am a little concerned about it feeling too hard for him. If it is on the very challenging side, I may have him do the 6th grade science with his sister and save Life Science for the next year.

 

I appreciate your thoughts and comments, everyone.

Edited by Mommy7
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Thank you, OhElizabeth. I'll check it out.

 

Holly, did you use the DVD's with Life Science and feel that it was too much too fast...or was that just your impression of the text when you looked at it? Did you actually use the text? I'm interested because I was considering doing Life Science for my 7th grade ds next year. He hasn't done a lot of challenging science, so I am a little concerned about it feeling too hard for him. If it is on the very challenging side, I may have him do the 6th grade science with his sister and save Life Science for the next year.

 

I appreciate your thoughts and comments, everyone.

 

I did not use the dvds. We had used BJU science from 2nd grade on up and I thought BJU science was a sure winner for 7th. But, alas, for us, it was not. Dd does not particularly like biology so that is a factor. It is just a harder, longer, more involved science than 6th grade. The bar is raised. If you want to do Life Science, have you considered Science Shepherd?

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I looked at Science Shepherd. It sounds like that although the author is a Christian, he doesn't include thoughts about God in his science materials. I prefer that God be the focus almost. The important thing to me is that God is glorified in everything we study so I guess I feel that our needs are met more through a company that speaks freely about Him.

 

I will say that Science Shepherd is very well written. It looks wonderful aside from what I mentioned above.

 

Now, I am coming to this conclusion by just looking at the sample on the website. If I am wrong, someone please correct me. :) It could be that the Lord just wasn't mentioned in the sample.

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Becky, the other thing you should know about the BJU stuff, IF it works for your kids, is that they weave things together across the grade level. They'll carry the vocab from the history into the english, that sort of thing. They're creating intentional reinforcement and a weaving together. You don't have to use all their things, but it's added bonus.

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Thank you, OhElizabeth. I think that is a wonderful bonus.

 

As you mentioned on the English post I did, I feel pretty comfortable putting the elementary kids in at grade level. But, do you think that I could do that with the upper levels as well? In my research I have found comments over and over that the upper levels are just, well, hard. I hope this isn't the kind of thing that will be great for now for my elementary kids and then not work later.

 

It makes me feel very unsure about what level to put my 7th grader in for science, english, etc. He is an older 7th grader, but he has not had to really study before, so I'm a little concerned about Life Science, for example, although I hear great things about Mrs. Vick. He is painfully aware that he could be an entire grade level higher than he is, so I am concerned that BJU be a good fit. I just think it might really discourage him to see English 6 on a book, for instance. I don't want to put too much weight on that, but I do care about how he feels. What I would love to do is put him in at grade level and see him rise to the occasion. But, the other part of me is scared that he wouldn't do well and then I would have discouraged instead of encouraged him, kwim? I want him to feel successful.

 

Any thoughts, OhElizabeth? I do love to pick your brain on things. I would love to just have you sit down with me and help me decide about all this! Please. Somebody....tell me what to do! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Well honestly, I think a lot of this would be more clear for you if you could get the books in hand. Is there ANYBODY near you who uses BJU? Seriously, you NEED to get your hands on these books.

 

If *I* had a dc with a birthday on that cutoff (which actually I do) and I had held him with that more conservative grade (which is my plan with my ds, definitely approve), *I* would make every effort to put him into the BJU materials at that grade level and make it work. Just tell him straight up it's going to be a transition year and that it will be hard work but pan out in the wash.

 

Your kids are gonna do AWESOME, honest. Everything you're using is reasonable, and there are no LDs. You need to take comments on the boards with a grain of salt. You don't know the entirety of the person's situation and what's going on with those kids. Sometimes kids have LDs that have not been formally diagnosed. The parent might be working around something like that and you're getting feedback that reflects that experience, kwim? I'll say it again. The BJU materials are structured with enough entry level stuff that, barring disabilities, they should be able to go in right on grade level. Now the one crunchy thing is math. Are you sticking with TT or changing? Or did you not decide? I'm not saying you shouldn't work your plan. I'm just observing that when/if you switch to BJU, those problem sets are going to get a lot longer and the method of instruction is changing. I would not change where it's working. They can make the change, but it might not be fun for a while.

 

Ok, I want to say one other thing. Going to the BJU dvds for subjects might not make it take less time on your part. From what I gather with my SIL (who has stairsteps, much like yours), she spends a lot of time supervising and making everything happen and gathering, so it's basically just as much work, just DIFFERENT work. And for her it's that confidence that the high school stuff is happening at the level she wants.

 

You know, totally unsolicited advice here, but you might be well-advised to transition over partially the first year. Like if your goal is to get entirely over eventually, only switch 2 or 3 subjects for each child the first year. That way they keep something else that is working and have some stability. Let's you make sure it's going to work out without a big loss, kwim? Just a thought.

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I know what you mean about getting my hands on the actual books! I think that will help a lot. A scope and sequence can only tell you so much, kwim? I guess I'll see the books at the Solutions meeting. I so wish I could see them now, though.

 

I think you are right about my ds. I just think it is time for that bit of challenge. I'll just have to help him through the adjustment. I like the idea of telling him from the get go that it is going to be a year of transition.

 

I am not sure what to do about TT. I guess my goal for everyone except my oldest that has Lyme is to move to BJU. But, I am not sure about doing it this year. But, the thing is, I have a couple who are at the upper end of elementary so if I don't do it this year, they won't have the advantage of using their program and being totally adjusted to it before it steps up a notch. Another concern is that when we do make the switchover, they may test into a lower level...not sure about that, but it is a concern.

 

I wondered about the time thing. I can see how it could end up taking as long. I am concerned about that. But, I think I may be like your SIL in that I would like the peace of mind of knowing that it is all put together for me and that it is at the correct level. The idea of the DVD teacher doing the teaching is very appealing to me at this point. If I'm not feeling well, at least they can get the lesson on DVD without it requiring so much of me. VP Self Paced History has been a huge blessing this year for that very reason. I LOVE being able to say, "Go do your history."

 

I am still praying for direction regarding it all. I only want to do it if it is the wisest thing for my family...not just because BJU has this great sale going on!

Edited by Mommy7
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BJU has a sale going on?? (just kidding)

 

I jus thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents worth. I am planning on using BJU's Life Science with my 7th grader next year as well. I have definitely heard about how rigorous the course can be but after looking through the text I knew I definitely wanted to use it next year. Yes, there seems to be a lot of infomation packed into the chapters... and some of the test questions require thought. My plan is to "teach" the material as suggestion (through the DVD's with Ms Vick) but if my daughter struggles with the tests I'll make them open book with a time limit. This will hopefully help her to feel/be successful on the tests... I think there can be a lot of learning when they're looking the answers up, KWIM?

 

Judge me if you will but at this age I'm all about open book tests for a particularly tough, rigorous course. She will have many more opportunities to work on testing/memorization skills without the book.

 

Keep in mind this is just my plan IF she struggles with the exams...

 

My thought is this... yes, it's a ton of information, but at this point I'm going for exposure to the material, not mastery. We'll work more on mastery when she takes biology in 9th.

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I completely agree about the open book tests if it is a problem. If we go forward with the Life Science course, that is what I plan to do as well. I remember someone saying that Mrs. Vick recommended that herself if the child is struggling. I think I have that right...but, I'm not sure what class was being referred to. Still, it shows that even she is not opposed to open book at times.

 

What kind of time limit do you think would be reasonable?

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Once you start into the junior high science from BJU, they're really trying to get them to outline the text and learn to take notes. Help your student to do that, and he's going to do fine on the tests. For us that took a lot of time, because my dd wasn't really in a position to do it by herself. We've been working on outlining other ways. Maybe now she would be? It's a process. The main thing to know though is they're trying to teach skills like how to use a textbook and how to synthesize information, how to determine what is important.

Edited by OhElizabeth
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OK, so I'm chiming in VERY late here... so please pardon my ignorance :)

 

But is BJU really having a sale (and no, I'm not kidding!). I've been tied up in all sorts of other stuff of late, so I've put next year's plans & research on the back burner. I'm considering the Physical Science course for ds (rising 8th), and I'm certain I'd like my rising 6th grader to do BJU Science 6... both w/ videos. And wow, would I LOVE to save a few pennies (or more)! So please... do tell!

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Heather, the BJU sale is through the consultants at a Solutions meeting. If you purchase at least 6 of the subjects on DVD with books, you get them for half off. You can purchase as many as you like, but it has to be at least 6 to get the half off price.

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I completely agree about the open book tests if it is a problem. If we go forward with the Life Science course, that is what I plan to do as well. I remember someone saying that Mrs. Vick recommended that herself if the child is struggling. I think I have that right...but, I'm not sure what class was being referred to. Still, it shows that even she is not opposed to open book at times.

 

What kind of time limit do you think would be reasonable?

 

I think it will depend on the test. I'll probably allow 2-3 minutes for each fill in the blank/matching problem and 4-5 minutes for every short answer/discussion problem. I think that would be plenty of time.

 

BTW, I definitely agree with the student outlining the chapters and taking notes from the lectures. Very helpful.

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Once you start into the junior high science from BJU, they're really trying to get them to outline the text and learn to take notes. Help your student to do that, and he's going to do fine on the tests. For us that took a lot of time, because my dd wasn't really in a position to do it by herself. We've been working on outlining other ways. Maybe now she would be? It's a process. The main thing to know though is they're trying to teach skills like how to use a textbook and how to synthesize information, how to determine what is important.

 

OhElizabeth, do they teach the child how to do the outlining and take notes? I think that would be kind of challenging to my ds. I could see me needing to help with that unless the teaching on it is rather detailed. If they don't teach it at the Life Science level, did they teach it in the 6th grade science?

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Becky, they introduce outlining in the 5th and 6th grade *reading* curriculum, iirc. I think in the videos for the 7th and 8th science they start to teach it some, haven't done those videos. However the textbook is SET UP for it. If the student outlines the text and studies those notes he makes, he's not going to have a problem on the test. My dd has some SN remember (remember that whole context of comments thing we talked about?), so that outlining was taking an obscene amount of time for us. She could make A's on the test, but it was just so much time. But that's her. We're the ones with the neuropsychologist telling us to keep her total school time below x amount and not to work her too hard. Think Lyme, think permanent. Her processing speed is WAY below her IQ, and she has some executive function issues. It means some stuff just takes a while.

 

I think on a more nt (neurotypical) dc you're going to explain what you want and they'll grow into it. You might walk him through the first chapter and help him just a little lesson on the 2nd and so on, till after a while he's doing it himself. When you look at the texts, you'll see what I'm talking about. They actually set you up with A, B, 1,2,3. It's totally obvious and makes it easy for you to say "For this section, you find the main points A, B, C, then I'll come back and help you on the sub points. Or just let it go at that (main point per paragraph) level, and the next chapter ask him to find 2-3 important details to go under those main points. The structure is totally there, easy to find. It's NOT going to be hard for you to nudge him in that direction.

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Becky, they introduce outlining in the 5th and 6th grade *reading* curriculum, iirc. I think in the videos for the 7th and 8th science they start to teach it some, haven't done those videos. However the textbook is SET UP for it. If the student outlines the text and studies those notes he makes, he's not going to have a problem on the test. My dd has some SN remember (remember that whole context of comments thing we talked about?), so that outlining was taking an obscene amount of time for us. She could make A's on the test, but it was just so much time. But that's her. We're the ones with the neuropsychologist telling us to keep her total school time below x amount and not to work her too hard. Think Lyme, think permanent. Her processing speed is WAY below her IQ, and she has some executive function issues. It means some stuff just takes a while.

 

I think on a more nt (neurotypical) dc you're going to explain what you want and they'll grow into it. You might walk him through the first chapter and help him just a little lesson on the 2nd and so on, till after a while he's doing it himself. When you look at the texts, you'll see what I'm talking about. They actually set you up with A, B, 1,2,3. It's totally obvious and makes it easy for you to say "For this section, you find the main points A, B, C, then I'll come back and help you on the sub points. Or just let it go at that (main point per paragraph) level, and the next chapter ask him to find 2-3 important details to go under those main points. The structure is totally there, easy to find. It's NOT going to be hard for you to nudge him in that direction.

 

And yes, what I'm saying is you're doing the WTM outlining using the BJU textbook. You can grow into it with the same progression WTM advises (main point per paragraph, then subpoints when those become easy). The BJU science texts just make that easy for you. Now you know how awesome it is. You don't have to compromise just because you're going with something preplanned. :)

Edited by OhElizabeth
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I've been told it is written along their Algebra 1 Text.

I'm not sure it is the most helpful answer...

 

Last year I taught BJU Life Science to a small group of 7/8th grade boys, and this year I am teaching BJU Physical Science to a group of 7/8/9th grade boys. Life Science is indeed a challenging class, chock full of information. I would say it is more like non-honors high school biology used to be--a lot of emphasis on classification, etc., not as much emphasis on biochemistry. I really liked it, and I enjoyed teaching it. One of the boys last year definitely had troubles taking the tests (biology was not his area of interest), and I told him to take it open book. It didn't really help all that much, although I think if he had been more diligent about taking notes through the chapter and answering all the review questions, he would have fared better.

 

Physical Science is much more challenging than life science, I feel. I have a Prentice Hall physical science book as well, and that is what I woud consider a junior high book. The BJU book just goes so much deeper in almost all areas. So for example, the Prentice Hall book will talk generally about chemical equations, whie the BJU book wil have you figure out the correct formulas for each equation component using oxidation numbers, and also have you balance the equation by adding coefficients. I don't think the math is so hard (my son and another boy, both of who are in 7th grade but are currently taking Alg. I, are in there, and they actually have the highest grades in the class), but they do assume you are comfortable manipulating equations, solving for unknowns, doing unit conversions, etc. It's more that the text is a bit written in a way to make the concept more obtuse than it has to be. The explanations aren't always the clearest. Also, the section and chapter review questions are terrible--half the time I have to look at my answer key to figure out exactly what they are after! I wouldn't just hand the book to a kid and expect them to be abe to understand it. But I'm sure the videos really help with that, and it really is a good, thorough course. If you get through it, then you will be WELL prepared for further physics and chemistry!

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loesje22000, thank you for the information. It is very helpful to know that they have an example of the outlining in the TM.

 

Thank you, AFwife Claire for sharing your experience with Life Science and Physical Science. I think I will start my ds in Life Science w/ open book tests and then wean him off little by little.

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