Lucy the Valiant Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 An article in the July / August 2011 Practical Homeschooling magazine mentioned a federal law (from 1998) that requires all states that offer in-state tuition rates to illegal immigrants to ALSO offer in-state tuition rates to U. S. -born citizens. It's in Title 8, Chapter 14, Subchapter II, Section 1623, and I was curious - has anyone here had any success in leveraging this law to gain in-state tuition rates if you are actually out-of-state? I live very near a large state university that does offer in-state rates to illegal immigrants; my own state does not (but then, I'm a good 40-minute drive from my nearest state university campus). Any thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 According to this article, 13 states offer in-state tuition rates to illegal immigrants: CA, TX, NY, UT, WA, IL, OK, KS, NM, NE, CT, MD, WI. (RI and GA have modified versions of this policy.) (Also, I'm trying not to bring up political subjects like the DREAM Act, but rather to focus in on this particular question: Have you ever legally obtained in-state tuition rates using this law?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 It just boggles my mind that state governments approve this. :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 MD's in-state tuition law was just passed last year. It's not so simple as if you're illegal you get in-state tuition. You have to attend a MD high school for at least 3 years, have parents who pay taxes in MD, and declare their intent to become citizens and agree to file the affidavit within 30 days of being able to do so, and, if male, register for the Selective Service. Also, they cannot go directly to a 4-year school. They must go to a community college for the first two years. The law is truly aimed at kids who were brought here by their parents and are or feel more American than anything else. This is their home. Maryland is their home. Based on that link the challenge would be that the in-state tuition for undocumented aliens law gives preferential treatment to illegals. However, at least for a MD school, it wouldn't fly to have a kid from VA or PA or whatever try to get in-state tuition. The law for illegals isn't much different from the law for US-born people to have in-state tuition (it's more restrictive, actually, since they have to live in the state for 3 years AND they have to graduate from a community college first before transfer to a university). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 MD's in-state tuition law was just passed last year. It's not so simple as if you're illegal you get in-state tuition. You have to attend a MD high school for at least 3 years, have parents who pay taxes in MD, and declare their intent to become citizens and agree to file the affidavit within 30 days of being able to do so, and, if male, register for the Selective Service. Also, they cannot go directly to a 4-year school. They must go to a community college for the first two years. The law is truly aimed at kids who were brought here by their parents and are or feel more American than anything else. This is their home. Maryland is their home. Based on that link the challenge would be that the in-state tuition for undocumented aliens law gives preferential treatment to illegals. However, at least for a MD school, it wouldn't fly to have a kid from VA or PA or whatever try to get in-state tuition. The law for illegals isn't much different from the law for US-born people to have in-state tuition (it's more restrictive, actually, since they have to live in the state for 3 years AND they have to graduate from a community college first before transfer to a university). What about kids who live on a state line and attend private school in MD? (I'm asking because I used to teach at a private school in MD, and we had many PA students. I always thought it was interesting that PA bussed them . . . across state lines, to a private, religious high school.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Depends on if their parents pay MD taxes. If not, they are out of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I would imagine to obtain the same tuition as an illegal alien you would need to meet the same requirements. MD's law is very narrow. If you have graduated from high school in MD you are likely a resident. If you paid taxes in MD, you are likely a resident. I believe MD's law requires graduating from a public high school, but I am not sure. You would need to look at each state's law and decide if you could meet the same requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Yeah . . . I'm not pretending to understand this law or anything (LOL) - I'm just wondering about its history and what it means, you know? When I read it "in English," it sounds like it's saying - States can't make laws for illegal immigrants that exclude legal citizens of other states. (So, in an extreme situation, could a child, say, go to high school in a neighboring state and also go on to attend college in that state?) If it doesn't mean legal citizens can access the same provisions as illegal immigrants, what does it mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Yeah . . . I'm not pretending to understand this law or anything (LOL) - I'm just wondering about its history and what it means, you know? When I read it "in English," it sounds like it's saying - States can't make laws for illegal immigrants that exclude legal citizens of other states. (So, in an extreme situation, could a child, say, go to high school in a neighboring state and also go on to attend college in that state?) If it doesn't mean legal citizens can access the same provisions as illegal immigrants, what does it mean? If you wanted to pay tuition at a public school in MD for three years, which could be 15K + a year and pay taxes in MD as well as your own state where you reside. Honestly, by the time you do that you could have saved a lot of money towards a broader range of college options. Plus the first two years your child would be going to CC in MD not a 4 year college, so the amount of money you invested in having this possibility is more than the cost of your child's cc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 MD's in-state tuition law was just passed last year. It's not so simple as if you're illegal you get in-state tuition. You have to attend a MD high school for at least 3 years, have parents who pay taxes in MD, and declare their intent to become citizens and agree to file the affidavit within 30 days of being able to do so, and, if male, register for the Selective Service. Also, they cannot go directly to a 4-year school. They must go to a community college for the first two years. The law is truly aimed at kids who were brought here by their parents and are or feel more American than anything else. This is their home. Maryland is their home. Based on that link the challenge would be that the in-state tuition for undocumented aliens law gives preferential treatment to illegals. However, at least for a MD school, it wouldn't fly to have a kid from VA or PA or whatever try to get in-state tuition. The law for illegals isn't much different from the law for US-born people to have in-state tuition (it's more restrictive, actually, since they have to live in the state for 3 years AND they have to graduate from a community college first before transfer to a university). ...and just what part of ILLEGAL do they not understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) If you wanted to pay tuition at a public school in MD for three years, which could be 15K + a year and pay taxes in MD as well as your own state where you reside. Honestly, by the time you do that you could have saved a lot of money towards a broader range of college options. Plus the first two years your child would be going to CC in MD not a 4 year college, so the amount of money you invested in having this possibility is more than the cost of your child's cc. So what do you think the purpose of the law is? To whom does (did) it apply, and why was it put into law? (I'm curious, not trying to be snarky - I hope this is coming across as just musings and "what ifs," not rudeness or ignorance.) ETA: (And if they're illegal residents, and living near a state line, they could theoretically just go to high school in MD, right? And file a tax form? They wouldn't have to pay tuition in MD if they weren't paying it in PA, right?) Edited March 23, 2012 by Katie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 So what do you think the purpose of the law is? To whom does (did) it apply, and why was it put into law? (I'm curious, not trying to be snarky - I hope this is coming across as just musings and "what ifs," not rudeness or ignorance.) There are large numbers (tens of thousands) of young people who came to this country at young ages (2, 3, 4 maybe) who are illegal aliens. However, they did not come here of their own volition. They were raised here, essentially as American. Many are not literate in the language of their origin (speaking fluently does not make your literate). They know nothing of the country they came from except what their parents may have told them and what they may have learned in Geography class. So, they don't break any laws except by living with their parents. There are many of these children who have done very well in school (part of the dream their parents hoped to provide for them). In recent years, I've seen a few newspaper accounts of illegal immigrants who were valedictorians and got offered scholarships to prestigious private universities. Not everyone is a valedictorian, but many are hard working good students that would do well at any state university. Additionally, you need to consider that large numbers of illegal aliens pay taxes and keep records of paying taxes. One of the reasons they pay taxes and keep records is every so often there is some sort of amnesty lottery. The last one I remember, people had to prove they did these things to get in the amnesty lottery and take the first step towards citizenship. So, these people are paying taxes just like the legal residents and the taxes go to support the state colleges. We have a group of people who were raised as Americans, who have graduated from high school. Some are interested in joining the military--they are not permitted to do this. I think some states are trying to figure out a problem the federal government has not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineW Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 To the best of my knowledge, states like CA get around the law by offering in state tuition to undocumented students by granting it on the basis of having graduated from a CA high school (and having attended that high school for at least 3 years). The students do not get in-state tuition based on "residence" in the state--apparently a small number of students in boarding school have used the law to get in-state tuition at UCLA and Cal--so they aren't violating the federal law. The Supreme Court decided not to hear the CA case last year so the issue is dead for now. Christine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 There are large numbers (tens of thousands) of young people who came to this country at young ages (2, 3, 4 maybe) who are illegal aliens. However, they did not come here of their own volition. They were raised here, essentially as American. Many are not literate in the language of their origin (speaking fluently does not make your literate). They know nothing of the country they came from except what their parents may have told them and what they may have learned in Geography class. So, they don't break any laws except by living with their parents. There are many of these children who have done very well in school (part of the dream their parents hoped to provide for them). In recent years, I've seen a few newspaper accounts of illegal immigrants who were valedictorians and got offered scholarships to prestigious private universities. Not everyone is a valedictorian, but many are hard working good students that would do well at any state university. Additionally, you need to consider that large numbers of illegal aliens pay taxes and keep records of paying taxes. One of the reasons they pay taxes and keep records is every so often there is some sort of amnesty lottery. The last one I remember, people had to prove they did these things to get in the amnesty lottery and take the first step towards citizenship. So, these people are paying taxes just like the legal residents and the taxes go to support the state colleges. We have a group of people who were raised as Americans, who have graduated from high school. Some are interested in joining the military--they are not permitted to do this. I think some states are trying to figure out a problem the federal government has not. I'm not asking about why states would allow illegal aliens in-state tuition. (I understand that; I don't agree with it, but I do understand it.) I'm asking why the federal government would require those states to offer the same thing to legal residents - that's the part I can't figure out. Who benefits from THAT law? (a) In general Notwithstanding any other provision of law, an alien who is not lawfully present in the United States shall not be eligible on the basis of residence within a State (or a political subdivision) for any postsecondary education benefit unless a citizen or national of the United States is eligible for such a benefit (in no less an amount, duration, and scope) without regard to whether the citizen or national is such a resident. (b) Effective date This section shall apply to benefits provided on or after July 1, 1998. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I'm asking why the federal government would require those states to offer the same thing to legal residents - that's the part I can't figure out. Who benefits from THAT law? So, I'm guessing here. Perhaps with the sovereignty of states the federal government cannot stop states from offering the benefit. However, since in the eyes of the federal government the illegal alien is not really a resident then other nonresidents must be treated equally. OK clear as mud. That's my speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 So, I'm guessing here. Perhaps with the sovereignty of states the federal government cannot stop states from offering the benefit. However, since in the eyes of the federal government the illegal alien is not really a resident then other nonresidents must be treated equally. OK clear as mud. That's my speculation. That's kind of my original question . . . has anyone (legal nonresident) ever claimed access (to education) based on this law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I just going to say that lots of state schools have reciprocal agreements between neighboring states. So if you live near the state line, you may qualify for in-state tuition anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineW Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 That's kind of my original question . . . has anyone (legal nonresident) ever claimed access (to education) based on this law? Yes and they've lost in court. (Martinez v. Regents, No. CV 05-2064) (Day v. Sibelius, No. 04-4085/Day v. Bond, No. 07-1193). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReader Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I'm not asking about why states would allow illegal aliens in-state tuition. (I understand that; I don't agree with it, but I do understand it.) I'm asking why the federal government would require those states to offer the same thing to legal residents - that's the part I can't figure out. Who benefits from THAT law? (a) In general Notwithstanding any other provision of law, an alien who is not lawfully present in the United States shall not be eligible on the basis of residence within a State (or a political subdivision) for any postsecondary education benefit unless a citizen or national of the United States is eligible for such a benefit (in no less an amount, duration, and scope) without regard to whether the citizen or national is such a resident. (b) Effective date This section shall apply to benefits provided on or after July 1, 1998. I think the answer is in how in-state tuition guidelines are set up. The law in TX is about the same as the one in MD; for an illegal alien to get in-state tuition it's the same thing --- long term residency in the state, graduating from a TX high school that they've attended for x number of years, etc. Stricter guidelines than just plain in-state tuition guidelines for legal TX residents. So, someone from out of state could try to get in-state tuition under this law, but I'm sure the state would then say "No problem, meet the same guidelines that the illegal aliens must meet." In other words, move to the state, live here that long, get the good grades, etc. It's a much more stringent guideline, it's not a gift they are giving away by saying "oh, you poor child, brought here illegally as a baby...here, we'll give you in-state tuition, no strings attached to make up for it..." -- no, there are very strict criteria that must be met first (and kept up to maintain it, I believe). And anyone from any state is welcome to it, if they want to jump through the same very stringent hoops set up. Does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I'm not asking about why states would allow illegal aliens in-state tuition. (I understand that; I don't agree with it, but I do understand it.) I'm asking why the federal government would require those states to offer the same thing to legal residents - that's the part I can't figure out. Who benefits from THAT law? I think the people who benefit from it are the politicians who are able to respond to anti-immigrant sentiment by saying that they sponsored or voted for the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 So, I'm guessing here. Perhaps with the sovereignty of states the federal government cannot stop states from offering the benefit. However, since in the eyes of the federal government the illegal alien is not really a resident then other nonresidents must be treated equally. OK clear as mud. That's my speculation. This is my guess, too. It's not really to help anyone, it's to try and control the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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