M&M Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) I am readly to scream! :banghead: My children don't want to do their math, Algebra is challenging it makes you think ...hard. I get that, but I tell them it is important. That this is just the beginning of Mathmatics everything up to this point was just the "phonics" of math. I expect them to look at me with two heads when I tell them that they need to progress through the harder concepts, it helps you to thing logically, etc. I know that they don't believe me and that is fine, I get it, they are teenagers and they question everything. It is not a question on how to get them to do the work, for they will do the work and they will learn, but of how to appreciate the relevance of what they are learning. What is driving me crazy is that some of the adults in their lives specifically at church, some young -youth group leaders, some older and much respected, have expressed to my children that Algebra is useless. :confused:. That they have no use in "real" life for Algebra, it is a class to pass and then forget. The thread on truth, virtue and beauty is really helping me to think a lot these last few days. I just talked to ds about this, I think he gets what I am saying, but I am not strong in math. Some of these ideas a new to me and I need some expert help. Edited March 21, 2012 by M&M clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillian Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I use algebra all the time in cooking and baking (when I reduce or increase recipes). I also use it when I am trying to figure out cost per unit sometimes. Mainly find x in the cross-multiply kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 What jobs do the folks who say it is useless hold? What universities did they go to? I would have your teens evaluate whether they want to follow that particular education or career path. If not, then what was "useless" to the person speaking doesn't apply to your teens. KWIM? I am not saying that the people speaking should be assumed to have bad jobs or educations. But what is useless is relative to what it is you want to accomplish. Algebra may be useless for many people, but absolutely necessary for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M&M Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 I agree. These children of mine do not know what they want to do in life, so they don't have a focus yet. I also think that when you don't want to do something, any excuse will do. I should revise what I said about Ds, he does like math - ok he tolerates it. Dd is the math hater in the house ...she is much like her mother was once upon a time. They are those who are either in college or have degrees in the liberal arts/humanities. My son had a discussion with our Youth Leader's wife and an assistant that they see no use in their life for Algebra. I wish I had been there to challenge what they said, but he just me about it today. I suppose the point was that they can get by without using Algebra in their daily lives. We did go over some example of how we use Algebra to find the unknown. I guess I am looking for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I use algebra in my garden. I use algebra in my kitchen. I use algebra with my livestock. I use algebra when I am remodeling. I use algebra all the time as a stay-at-home mom. My husband uses it as a restaurant manager. My father uses it both as a running coach and as an engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I am readly to scream! :banghead: My children don't want to do their math, Algebra is challenging it makes you think ...hard. I get that, but I tell them it is important. That this is just the beginning of Mathmatics everything up to this point was just the "phonics" of math. I expect them to look at me with two heads when I tell them that they need to progress through the harder concepts, it helps you to thing logically, etc. I know that they don't believe me and that is fine, I get it, they are teenagers and they question everything. It is not a question on how to get them to do the work, for they will do the work and they will learn, but of how to appreciate the relevance of what they are learning. What is driving me crazy is that some of the adults in their lives specifically at church, some young -youth group leaders, some older and much respected, have expressed to my children that Algebra is useless. :confused:. That they have no use in "real" life for Algebra, it is a class to pass and then forget. The thread on truth, virtue and beauty is really helping me to think a lot these last few days. I just talked to ds about this, I think he gets what I am saying, but I am not strong in math. Some of these ideas a new to me and I need some expert help. I listened to this workshop on Math: God's Invention, Man's Discovery a couple years ago and thought it was very good. The gist of the talk is that math is how man describes what is in the universe around him. If you believe that the universe is God's handiwork, then it allows you to more fully understand the world that God has set you into. From another point of view, if Christians abandon the fields of math, engineering and science, then they leave those fields to be developed and manned primarily by non-Christians. (So where is the salt and light in that approach?) Algebra is a name given to a wide array of math topics. What many of them have in common is that they allow you to quantify complex systems. The stereotypical problems about two trains leaving a station may not seem interesting at first glance. But what if you are an transportation planner (or politician making laws) and you have to determine which train goes to a siding to wait when two trains need the same track. Is it better to make the passenger train wait or the cargo train? Can you quantify the effect on traffic gridlock of the same number of cars and semis (who decide to not take the train because it's slower)? What if you are trying to figure out if it's better to ship your products out via several truck loads (at a higher cost) or fewer traincar loads (requiring larger shipment sizes). If you have a stack of several coupons for laundry soap, is it better to buy smaller sizes at higher prices (and use more coupons) or to buy fewer larger sizes at lower prices (but end up with coupons left over)? Algebra wasn't developed in order to torture teens. It was developed in order to make it easier to find answers to complicated questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Some books that show useful problems solved by algebra (well math in general) include the books by Danica McKellar (Hot X is I think the algebra title) and Algebra the Easy Way. You might take a look at the AMC 8 problems. These are often very useful questions that are solvable with algebra. I also found that many of the questions in the Singapore Challenging Word Problems sets were much easier when done with algebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M&M Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 This!! Thank you. I am printing this out and I am going to share this when sit down with these adults and discuss the impact of Youth leaders on young minds! (with you permission of course!) I just had a talk with my Father, who just happens to be a physicist, and what I have come to see -with a little help from the hive- is that we use Algebra without realizing it. I asked my son "Once you have learned something, how can you be sure that you are not using that information to solve problems?" I think that these folks see Algebra as an equation that is written out like they had in their highschool textbooks. Off to listen to that workshop and print up some math problems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trilliums Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 According to careercast.com, the top jobs of 2011 involve math: 1) Software Engineer 2) Mathematician 3) Actuary 4) Statistician 5) Computer Systems Analyst http://www.careercast.com/jobs-rated/10-best-jobs-2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm taking an algebra class this semester, and we have used algebra for financial problems (investments and interest rates), radioactive decay, ballistics problems (throwing a ball), etc. It's also foundational to study chemistry and biology (and of course, higher math). Also, as their parent / teacher, you don't want them to end up looking like this Also, do you consider it your job to prepare them for whatever path they may choose when they are 20 - 25 - 30 etc? You want to prepare them adequately. Keep up the good work!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The brother of the guy who created the VideoText curriculum told me (at a homeschool convention) to think of it this way.. Football players spend all week lifting weights and training and doing other exercises.. They lift weights a lot! But when they go out onto the field, they're not lifting weights! They're playing football.. But they would suck at football if they didn't lift weights all week, every week.. right? And so it goes with algebra.. We must learn algebra if for no other reason but to exercise our brains.. So that we can enter the world as capable, smart, logical adults who know how to think, deduct, reason, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Once you find what makes it relevant for your son, help him to role play and practice politely, but firmly, putting his reason out there, but with no suggestion that the conversation should continue. Kwim? I think some adults can be toxic regarding their views on higher learning. If you're able to limit the time spent with them that's good, but in other cases, like the youth minister, they may need to be asked not to share their opinions with your son - and that can be done by you and/or your husband privately. Can you tell I feel strongly about this? :tongue_smilie: Another thought, with those associated with your church, you can remind them that God created mathematics and all its laws, so learning about higher math is learning more about the complexity and beauty of God's creation. : ) Edited March 22, 2012 by Teachin'Mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M&M Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 I am very thankful for all your replies. This has been wonderful. I listened to to workshop tha Sebastian linked...it was fascinating. I was so annoyed yesterday, but the Lord with some help from the Hive has turned this into something very good in our house. My teens and I talked about this issue all afternoon. I have been listening intently many of the Circe talks and have read that great thread on classical ed. The scales have fallen from my eyes. I have gotten caught up in curriculum, requirements for high school, and the bustle of a multi-generaltional household of nine. Truth, beauty and virtue will be my focus. Yesterday we looked for it in Mathmatics. I can't wait to see what today will bring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Besides all of the other wonderful reasons given -- but on a strictly pragmatic sense, you cannot graduate from most colleges, even in the liberal arts, without a mathematics course which often requires intermediate algebra as a prerequisite. Furthermore, closing off options early is generally a sub-optimal course of action. Additionally, some majors require surprising amounts of mathematics (meterology, physical therapy). If pressed by adults, your kids could just smile and say "I don't feel like closing off my options for careers so much so soon." and then pass the bean dip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 What is driving me crazy is that some of the adults in their lives specifically at church, some young -youth group leaders, some older and much respected, have expressed to my children that Algebra is useless. :confused:. That they have no use in "real" life for Algebra, it is a class to pass and then forget. My response to that is that if these adults have forgotten algebra, then of course they have no use for it. You can't use what you do not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasda Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 If a student doesn't see the relevance of taking math in high school this may give them a practical reason to take it and do well. The college in our area requires each new student to take a matriculation test showing their math competence. If they don't score high enough, they must take additional lower level math classes before they can take the math classes which count for the general education credits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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