Swim Moms

[Danestress]

I really need someone to just give it to me straight, and I feel like I can't get anyone to do that. I like DS' coaches, but I don't trust I will get a real answer to this.

 

So be honest. Is there an age at which you can pretty much say, "If this kid isn't competitive by now, he's never going to be?"

 

I have a 14 year old son who loves swimming. I think his coaches would agree he has a better work ethic than any kid his age on the team. He is always at practice, always ready to work, very enthusiastic.

 

He has never had a JO cut. He has never gone to sectionals. He has never had an A time. He will age up next December, so as we are looking at the end of his last short course season in the 14 and unders, he still has a number of events he hasn't gotten a BB in.

 

I know with my tennis player that if your kid isn't really competitive by 14, he's probably never going to be. That doesn't mean he won't be great on his high school tennis team or enjoy the sport, but he's probably not ever going to go from 100 in the state to 3 in the region by the end of high school. I'm sure I will get anecdotes to the contrary, and tennis coaches make a living off of those dreams, but we know the reality.

 

No part of me is thinking of forcing my son to quit swimming. He likes it still. But I feel like he's going to be hurt in his heart by false hopes and by the reality that hard work does not always bring success.

 

So tell me the truth. I don't want to hear, "I know this one kid...." stories. IN GENERAL at what age can a boy who swims sort of draw conclusions about the limitations of his talent?

 

Please don't cut and paste this. I will erase it later.

[ChristyB in TN]

He may not get those incredible times but he may still get a scholarship. I have seen kids with barely a state cut get scholarships to small, private colleges! Don't make him quit, let him keep loving it and relish in the little triumphs! The fact that he will be able to swim on a team in college will be worth all of the long practices and meets just because he will have the athlete identity and will have it as a life long endeavor.

[myfunnybunch]

Sometimes we can't protect our kids from realizing that life isn't really fair. At 14, he already knows the list of things he hasn't done in swim competitions and times he hasn't hit. It's really up to him to draw his own conclusions from it, and you get to be there for him as he figures out how to deal with that.

 

I know what you mean when you say success, and I understand. And from my perspective, it sounds like your son already successful in many ways: He's a hard worker. He's a good team member. He loves his sport. Competitive swimming may not be where he meets the kind of success that he wants. But maybe he will use his love of swim to coach young swimmers, or to work at the pool, or to become a triathlete, or stay fit for the rest of his life.

 

Cat

[Danestress]

I know he can draw his own conclusions and I am there to support him. But I am also there to drive him across town six nights a week for 2 1/2 hour practices. Which I do without complaint.

 

But next year he is starting at a brick and mortar high school. There are two "tracks" that he can be on as a swimmer with his club. One is highly competitive and has two practices a lot of days - one at 5:00 am. The other in the afternoon/evening. The other skips that early morning practice.

 

He probably wants to do the harder team (though he may not qualify for it). If he does, I will have to get up at 4:00 several days a week. Honestly, it's not a life style I really want. And it might be better for him academically to not have that morning burden. I would do it for him. I can't tell you the things I would do for this kid. But I would rather not if he has no chances of really reaching his swim goals anyway, and so I wonder if it's time for a talk about that. But if some kids have major "break throughs" in high school and that's a realistic hope, I don't want to discourage him.

 

So anyway, I actually have a reason for wanting answers, though I do understand that he's the one who has to reach conclusions ultimately.

[bettyandbob]

It's not just how good is he now and how focused is his work ethic. It's also genetics. How is his body shaped and how tall is he expected to be. I know a few people who at 14 looked like they were serious D1 scholarship material. But as the boys reach full size, other young men passed them.

 

As a mom I wouldn't get wrapped up in telling my son not to do a sport, unless I couldn't afford it or it was interfering with academics or other commitments. As a mom I would just support him in the activity as long as he enjoyed it. I know a young man who continued to do club swimming even though he knew he would never reach the upper level of competitiveness. He realized the he just liked it and going to swim practice and working hard in practice helped him destress so he could focus on other things better. (What a great thing to understand when you are 16 or 17)

 

Honestly, I don't discourage my dc from doing anything unless it's too expensive financially or in time, or too difficult to commute to. I also let them decide when they are ready to quit. I would never tell a dc he was too good to quit or that he was only average and therefore he needed to quit. I guess I let them come to the conclusion when it's time to move on. I'm here to listen when there's disappointment.

 

It's likely your 14 yo has already figured out where he stands.

[ChristyB in TN]

Oh, gosh, I hear you! I drove mine to those darned 2 a day practices and sat on bleachers for 2 1/2 hours every afternoon for years. I was a stroke and turn official so I spent HOURS standing and staring at water every other weekend. My oldest injured his shoulders, tendons tearing from bone, really awfully painful stuff, so he was out. He was 2nd in the region in his mile freestyle when he quit. :( When the surgeon told us what issues he was facing and what could and couldn't be done about it I cried. Luke didn't. I asked what he wanted to do and he said, "Give it a rest." So we did and the other two of my kids couldn't WAIT to quit swimming. Now he swims a little but he misses it so much. I don't. I say do whatever you want to do. No guilt. How much longer till he can drive? :D

[bettyandbob]

Now, I see your reasons. This where I would say ds had to prove himself in high school academically before doing twice a day practices. This comes under the category of too expensive time wise. That will buy you at least a semester before reviewing the comittment.

[LisaKinVA]

My swimmers are still young (12, 10, 8...so far), My 10yo just earned her first "B" time. My oldest still hasn't hit one, but he's gotten close. They are still dropping lots of time (10dd dropped 26 seconds in her 100 back).

 

Not to take away from the moms who have been through this or your understanding of your son... here is my take on it.

 

Is your son still improving? Because the difference for 15-16yo cut-offs aren't huge when compared to 13-14yo cut offs (not like the HUGE jump from 9-10 to 11-12). Boys go through several stages of puberty and their growth can really mess up their strokes, plus some kids grow faster younger, and others grow faster later. By their late teens, most of that has evened out. Personally, I think it's too early to worry too much about it, especially since he LOVES it. And, as a PP mentioned, small colleges may still offer him scholarship money. He may never make the Olympics, or be a world-class athlete, but with a masters program, and he can compete at some level as long as he wants!

 

(My family has lots of experience with late bloomers... my older brother, while very tall, because he grew so much in such a short time, took awhile to gain control of his limbs. He didn't make the Varsity Basketball team until his senior year, and then walked-onto his college team, eventually receiving scholarship money, and becoming the captain of that team.)

 

ETA: If my son is serious enough about swimming and makes the cut for the senior's program... I (or my dh) will drive him to both practices. Of course, he'll be going to school at home, so I don't have to worry about high school drama, too). The evening practices are pretty much still a given, as I have youngsters who will still be swimming in those practices. If my son isn't committed enough for the competitive track, I'm fine with that too. My dd, OTOH, is the one who eats, drinks, and dreams swimming... and since we're being transfered, we have two main things we're looking at when it comes to where we'll live... distance to dh' office and distance to the pool. I told my dh that if we weren't already moving (again), I'd want to sell and move closer to the pool, because the commute is really wearing on me. 1:20 round trip, and it's just 15 miles.

Edited February 4, 2012 by LisaK in VA

[Danestress]

This son is a decent height. He's not going to be short - though honestly I think that in general, you can't tell which kids are going to be fast by how big they are. I see 85 pound girls who TEAR through the pool.

 

But he has probably grown 2 inches in the last couple of months, and he is SKINNY. I don't think the growth spurt has helped. No, he has really dropped almost no time this year at all. He's adding in everything, despite swimming six nights a week and having privates here and there as well. But I think that is just a stage. I am sure he WILL drop time, just not this year. And last year he was sick a lot, so it was a bad year too.

[Danestress]

Maybe I could tell him, "I think you need to do the less competitive track for a year while you adjust to new academic demands."

 

I tried hinting at that once already, thinking he needed to be prepared that he might not even make the more competitive team next year, and he said, "the other team would be a waste of my time because those kids are not dedicated." He really doesn't like lazy kids:) He'd definitely rather be the worst swimmer on a hard, competitive team than the best swimmer on a easy going team. But perhaps if I say, "be that as it may, for the first year I think academics are taking the front stage" it would make this easier.

[Mommyfaithe]

Oh, gosh, I hear you! I drove mine to those darned 2 a day practices and sat on bleachers for 2 1/2 hours every afternoon for years. I was a stroke and turn official so I spent HOURS standing and staring at water every other weekend. My oldest injured his shoulders, tendons tearing from bone, really awfully painful stuff, so he was out. He was 2nd in the region in his mile freestyle when he quit. :( When the surgeon told us what issues he was facing and what could and couldn't be done about it I cried. Luke didn't. I asked what he wanted to do and he said, "Give it a rest." So we did and the other two of my kids couldn't WAIT to quit swimming. Now he swims a little but he misses it so much. I don't. I say do whatever you want to do. No guilt. How much longer till he can drive? :D

 

Our experience as well..sort of. Myna oldest were not div. 1 swimmers by a long shot....but, they loved the sport ...became lifeguards and US Swim coaches...and used that experience to work through and pay for college. They did not get swim scholarships...but they also didn't have to go to all those practices, meets etc. They still swim and teach swimming for fun and $$$.

 

Ds#2 could have been div. 1 IF he didn't get Lyme disease and IF he would have grown past 5'7". Whoda thunk he would be the small guy??

He had to quit swimming...and pretty much everything else just to get better. When he quit....my other kids begged to quit too. It took some adjustment for ME...lol. My own life really revolved around the pool...oy vey.

He misses swimming sometimes...but not much:001_smile:

 

Anyway, ask your son, and see what he wants to do. Some kids, especially boys, come into their own and compete well older. Some kids burn out and get hurt. The future is unpredictable, so try and stay in the now.

 

Good luck whatever he decides...you are a good mom.

Faithe

Edited February 4, 2012 by Mommyfaithe
Stupid iPad puts in weird letters instead of spacebar...

[LisaKinVA]

He's got the opportunity to play tennis...or golf. Or go skiing with friends he is making. To go to basketball games. To be part of the debate team or the pep band (he's not doing these, but he COULD be). However, if all his days were consumed with swimming, none of these other things could be explored.

 

But what if they weren't interested in exploring them? High school is a time of self discovery, and that's going to happen regardless of my wishes. I may want my son to become a debater, but if he doesn't love it he may "do" it, but regret not swimming more (or vice-versa). IMO, letting them lead in some of these decisions now will shape them more than taking away something they love to give them room for things they aren't even interested in. It's not as if focusing on swimming is going to shelter him from knowing these other choices are out there. If a child gets tired or wants to change, fine. But dictating they change for the sake of change (without there being other major issues), nope, I don't think I could do that.

 

Difficult decisions have to be made at every turn in life. I've never regretted the time I spent in college debating vs. being in whatever other clubs were available. I never regretted my time in high school doing marching band, or track. I never missed not being in the Show Choir (could have). I never missed not being more involved in NHS. I never missed not being in SGA, going to basketball games, or football games, or whatever. But, had my parents told me "NO. I don't care if you LOVE music, you aren't going to spend 2-3 hours practicing to make first chair, you need to "explore" other options." I would have been TICKED. Of course, I'm an intense personality. I'm driven. If there had been problems with my school work, that would have been one thing. But, I was a straight-A, honors-AP student on a mission to get a music scholarship, so I spent my free-time practicing. Not just practicing flute/piccolo & piano, but I also learned Clarinet, Oboe, Bassoon, Sax and was working on percussion, and had I remained in that high school, I probably would have picked up one or two brass instruments at least for familiarity. I made All-district in Bassoon my first year playing. Had I continued, that scholarship would probably come easy. But, I changed during my junior year. That change came from within me.

[plansrme]

I think it is harder to tell with boys who is going to be competitive at what age. With girls, in most sports I think you can tell by 12. Not 100%, sure, but maybe with 85% certainty. I am basing this conclusion on years and years and years of watching swimmers and gymnasts, boys and girls. I have watched more gymnasts than swimmers, and more girls than boys, and I am just some random person on the internet, but my predictions have been dead on. Even with my history of accuracy, I would not write off a 14 year old boy swimmer. In short, no, I do not think you can write him off at this point, particularly after a growth spurt to which he needs to adjust and grow muscles to match.

 

While your son's coaches certainly have a vested interest in keeping him on a competitive track, I would value their input on this point. My kids' coaches and ballet teachers have always been right in their assessments, and they have seen a lot more kids come through their programs than I have.

 

If I were you, I would let him stay on the more competitive track if he makes it and if that is what he wants to do, and count down the days until he can drive. He is a smart kid; he will figure out if it is not worth his time and effort.

 

I also would not discount the benefits of going into high school with something that both occupies a lot of time and gives him an identity. Kids who identify themselves as swimmers or dancers or gymnasts or theater nerds, whatever, stay closer to the straight-and-narrow than those who do not. (Pardon the gross generality here--no rotten tomatoes, please.) I personally think that this would be the worst time to take that identity away from him.

 

As for your motives, I hear you, and you are doing the right thing to ask questions now. I have watched parents do the exact opposite of what you are doing, i.e., trying to keep a kid in a sport in which the kid would never succeed, and it never turns out well. So I absolutely think that there may come a time when he says, "I don't want to do it any more," and instead of encouraging him to stick it out, the way you normally would, you will say, "Yes, Sir, let's quit right this minute." I personally just don't think that this is the time. And maybe that time will never come, but I don't think it's now.

 

Terri

[LisaKinVA]

I tried hinting at that once already, thinking he needed to be prepared that he might not even make the more competitive team next year, and he said, "the other team would be a waste of my time because those kids are not dedicated." He really doesn't like lazy kids:) He'd definitely rather be the worst swimmer on a hard, competitive team than the best swimmer on a easy going team. But perhaps if I say, "be that as it may, for the first year I think academics are taking the front stage" it would make this easier.

 

Let's put this in a different category for a moment. If this were academics, for example, would it feel different for you? Real life example, here. Growing up, I moved a lot. I switched schools a lot. One year, my records were delayed for the entire first semester. Because of that, they would not allow me into the "advanced" classes for which I was qualified, because they didn't have that stinking "GT Qualified" paper. The year before, the school I went to eliminated their advanced classes putting me in the *exact same* science, history and math courses (identical text, too), and said "a year of review will be good for you." Would you just "shrug" and say, don't worry about it. I know you like to be challenged, and I know being in these classes learning NOTHING is awful, and the kids make fun of you for being so serious about school, but let's face it, you're no Einstein, and this where you need to be... OR would you raise holy he!! trying to find some way to help him?

 

I ask, because while you might think it's just fine for him to take the easier road... it may seriously de-motivate him. He could grow to not like swimming, or resent you, and that resentment could affect other things (like school). You could turn a highly motivated kid who would rise to the challenge to one who shuts down and sees little meaning in anything they do. Each kid is different, so I'm not saying this *would* happen. I'm speaking a bit from my own life, here.

[LisaKinVA]

I was commenting from my experience with my son. He had *wanted* to try some things out, but there was not a milieu in which he could do so without already being pretty good at it (try finding a baseball team for a homeschooled 15yo who hasn't played before...they really are not interested). The 9th-grade-and-up years have brought a few surprises to me.

 

See, I get that... he was the driving force, you were the encourager (along with some others). No issues with that. :D I'm hoping that here in VA the "Tebow" legislation passes the full house/senate. I want to be able to give my son more choices that really don't exist much for homeschoolers here. But, he'll still need to swim (it's family PE time), unless there is another sport he can do instead (like Tennis with the local high school). He doesn't have to do the "elite" team. He can stay in Jr.'s as long as he wants (that's the not-so-competitive track).

[Danestress]

Swimming has four strokes. You learn them when you are eight, and everything after that is mostly just practice, getting stronger, and refining. It's the same darn things day after day, year after year. It's incredibly repetitive. It takes a special personality to love it. If you can't take repetitive, you can't be a swimmer.

 

Academics are different. We expect to constantly learn new things, acquire new knowledge. I don't think it's a great comparison.

 

So yes, I would insist he go with an easier rather than a tougher swim program (though I am unlikely to have that choice because I don't think he will qualify for the tougher one). The difference would be in yards swum and attendance requirements. There wouldn't be a difference in terms of what they are learning.

 

ETA: When I say he won't make the more competitive team next year, that doesn't mean he wouldn't make it the year after. It's not a permanent track. He could swim with the less competitive kids next year, achieve the times he needs to move up, and then do that. He thinks he will be less likely to improve and make those times if he has an easy year, but the team has unbendable rules about he times one needs to qualify for the team.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Danestress

[Lolly]

I'd say that he isn't going to be a top swimmer if he has been working hard and has been swimming for a while now. I do have one dd who didn't start being a good swimmer until she was 14. But, that is when she discovered distance swimming. It seems she needed to be swimming 1000s and miles.:D At 14, she went from being a mostly BB swimmer to having Sectional cuts. (Only in distance events, of course!) But, she is the exception to the rule. Most of the kids who are fast have been fast from pretty early on. You can get an athlete who starts competitive swimming at a later age who makes tremendous gains after a year or so of swimming, but one who has been doing it all the way along usually stays somewhat on the same path. On our team, there wouldn't be a question of what group your ds would be swimming with; without the required times there would be no "Senior" (top competitive) group. In fact, even with the times (well, unless you are outstandingly fast) unless you have proven that you are willing to put in the work you aren't moved up.

 

We have some kids whose parents do not allow their children to move up until they are old enough to drive themselves to morning practices. That could be an option for you. Have him wait until he is 16 and can do the driving himself. (You get to stay in bed!) Or, limit the number of early practices he can attend. Our team has 3 school morning practices. I take the girls to one of those per week. (We live an hour from the pool. It just isn't possible to do them all! They do swim the other two at a pool near our house/but at a more decent morning hour!) Our coach does not allow the kids who have just moved into the group to attend all of the morning practices. They start with one a week and add on as the year progresses. He also encourages them to miss a practice now and then. Too much swimming makes for unhappy swimmers!

[LisaKinVA]

I wasn't meaning in terms of content, but being "forced" to take a step down, when you were otherwise qualified for the class. In my background, I was qualified to take the advanced course, but wasn't allowed. I was qualified to take the upper levels, but was forced to repeat. I was attempting to put the emphasis on the qualifying and being denied anyway, but failing.

 

If your son doesn't make the cut, that's a whole different thing than mom and dad saying essentially, "It doesn't matter that you made the cut, you aren't doing the competitive team."

 

Not making the cut will be disappointing, but should be a motivator to work as hard as he can, or he may decide to try something different. Making the cut and being forced to "stay back," would really, really hurt in a very deep way.

[mcconnellboys]

He may not have the sorts of times that will get him scholarship offers to Division I schools, but that's so much work (and comes before their coursework, in general), that I'm not sure he'd necessarily miss it. He may certainly have adequate times to get him offers to DII schools. While DIII schools can't offer scholarship dollars for sports, they can offer leadership awards, etc.

 

While my son did make some A cuts for our area, he never went to sectionals or nationals. He swims at a DIII school now and it has meant that he has had a ready made group of comrades from the moment he got on campus. He has a great routine to his days because he has to work his schedule around one to two practices per day, and he has stayed in much better shape than he would have otherwise.

 

His first paying job was life-guarding and he has moved into supervisory work with the company. In order to do this, he has had to take numerous life-saving, first-aid, and CPR courses that he would not otherwise have taken.

 

I think there are a ton of other important considerations in adopting a sport than just whether or not one gets recognition on an elite level.... And swimming is one of those life-time sports that a person can carry with them into old age. It can be done alone and in a variety of places for daily exercise....

 

You know, it may not even be your child's genetics that are holding him back. Here, I've seen even older kids make great strides when they moved into work with a different coach who used better training techniques. Unfortunately, we have too few good coaches in our area. Proper training can make a huge difference. Just swimming endless laps, even on interval, won't necessarily help everyone. Bucket work and other things used by colleges may be necessary to build better muscle strength. Breath training and other sorts of training that are not the norm here may be necessary. Better feedback may be necessary.

[ZooRho]

See, I get that... he was the driving force, you were the encourager (along with some others). No issues with that. :D I'm hoping that here in VA the "Tebow" legislation passes the full house/senate. I want to be able to give my son more choices that really don't exist much for homeschoolers here. But, he'll still need to swim (it's family PE time), unless there is another sport he can do instead (like Tennis with the local high school). He doesn't have to do the "elite" team. He can stay in Jr.'s as long as he wants (that's the not-so-competitive track).

 

funny I'm really undecided about the Tebow legislation here. Don't even know If I'll make any calls about it. The only thing that makes me want to call is that the PTA is so against it.

 

 

 

I also have a year round swimmer. I don't know that at 14 you can say for sure. mine is 16. He had a bad couple of years because of some health issues. but is doing much better now.

 

yes there are smaller colleges out there where he may be able to swim but that will have to be a decision you will have to make, does he want to swim in college? What kind of college is he looking at and what kind of future.

 

anyway I can feel for you on the early practices. We were really struggling with that decision, but when they moved him up one of the coaches said he'd come and get him for the morning practice. THANK Goodness. It has now morphed into the coach picks him up every practice for the most part adn we help with gas.

[Danestress]

honestly, he's not making the advanced team. It's not going to happen. I am not the kind of Mom who is going to tell him he can't do what he qualifies for.

 

Though honestly, I don't understand how this work exactly. I hear you that you were disappointed about your schooling. But every time I come to this board, I read all these comments about the dreadful "run around" moms who over-schedule their children. I drive hours and hours a day and travel many weekends. I would love to not have to get up at 4:00 in the morning for practice, but I would do it for this kid But choosing not to seems like it's what so many parents would do who try to keep their home lives more "normal." Why the guilt trip about saying that's not a life style I really covet? I am willing to do it for this kid, because he is truly the greatest kid ever and deserves all sacrifice. But it seems so weird to be getting this feedback about how damaging it would be to him to not make that commitment. I know very few parents who would make that commitment.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Danestress

[Jackie in NE]

My dd started swimming in 8th grade because she needed to do "something", and gymnastics was no longer an option for us. She chose swimming. She was pretty slow, and most of her competitors had been swimming since before they could walk. It was kind of discouraging. I told her "hard work pays off". She faithfully went to two-a-day practices starting in 9th grade. It was hard work. I took her to her practices because I was not about to tell her "hard work pays off", and then not do my part to make the hard work possible. Fast forward to her junior year, age 16..... she blossomed. She was 6th in the state in the 100 free. Even her coach was surprised. She now loves swimming. She has seen that hard work pays off. She is going to choose a private college where she can be competitive. She will not, in all likelihood, get a swimming scholarship, but she is a very good student, and if it is between her and another girl as to who gets the scholarship, maybe her swimming will swing things her way. Yes, she has given up other things, like a 2nd instrument, and FFA. But she has experienced some success, and knows that she is able to do hard things. In a nutshell, I wouldn't trade our choice. What's a few early mornings, if your child can learn such an invaluable lesson?

 

Best wishes to you in your journey, Jackie

[Sweetpeach]

Hi Danestress:

 

I think I get you and where you're coming from . . . and this is coming from a mother who does get up at 5 am, 4x a week for swim practice. :)

 

If I were in your shoes, I would let the clock dictate/determine the level of competition for next year. He may not blossom into a state swimmer but he might develop into a swimmer who can hold his own in certain situations. It seems as if he loves swimming and it's a big part of his life.

 

The family economy/scheduling/mom's energy all plummet with these crazy early morning practices. Is your son willing to help you while you're rearranging your life to help him meet his athletic goals? At heart level, does he appreciate how much you are willing to put on the table for him?

 

And at the end of the day, I believe your family dynamic would be more peaceful if he came to the realization himself that the competitive stream of swimming might not be the best fit for him. How he handles the disappointment of that decision will be a big point of character development for your young man.

 

Bless you, Danestress -- this just isn't easy. Parenting just out-loud-stinks sometimes.

 

Warmly, Tricia

[plansrme]

But it seems so weird to be getting this feedback about how damaging it would be to him to not make that commitment. I know very few parents who would make that commitment.

 

Then what, exactly, were you asking? I am confused. If your mind is made up, and he definitely is not making the advance team, then yea! Problem solved, no?

 

Terri

[Unicorn.]

His body is just starting to grow, and his muscles to build. What he is doing now is no indication of what he can become in a few years. He absolutely could become the best someday, if he continues to push himself to do better. Michael Phelps was 11 before he even started swimming. Josh Davis didn't bloom until later. He tells kids all the time not to think at 14, 10, 18, whatever age, to give up, because you just don't know what you can become w/ practice and willpower. Swimmers tend to get better w/ age, and there isn't a set age where you can say someone isn't going to ever be better! I know a LOT of swimmers who have gotten scholarships that at age 14 weren't that good. I know a lot of swimmers who showed Olympic promise as a young child, but then plateaued. With swimming....never say never!!!

[bettyandbob]

With regard to not improving:

 

what events does your ds specialize in? He may see a lot of improvement if he begins to do really long distances or focus just on breast stroke. His body type may be suited for some specialization he hasn't tried and perhaps his coaches don't focus on.

 

With regard to your earlier comment about height. Height does matter. When my friend's dd was looking at colleges coaches wanted to see her in person and verify she was actually 6 feet tall. This summer look at the men's Olympic team. A male swimmer under 6'2" or 6' could probably swim breast stroke and long distance, but it would hard to compete in freestyle.

 

If you aren't looking at D1 programs, then yes, there are small scholarships available.

 

But I still think my answer to the dilemna of the parent not be ready for 4 am practice when the boy is is to say ds must prove himself in his academic program before committing to the 2 a days. 1 practice a day should keep him in good shape.

[LisaKinVA]

honestly, he's not making the advanced team. It's not going to happen. I am not the kind of Mom who is going to tell him he can't do what he qualifies for.

 

Wonderful... and I'm sure you are the type of mom who, when he is disappointed that he didn't make the cuts, that you will do what you can to encourage and support him in his efforts to improve. :001_smile:

 

Though honestly, I don't understand how this work exactly. I hear you that you were disappointed about your schooling. But every time I come to this board, I read all these comments about the dreadful "run around" moms who over-schedule their children. I drive hours and hours a day and travel many weekends. I would love to not have to get up at 4:00 in the morning for practice, but I would do it for this kid But choosing not to seems like it's what so many parents would do who try to keep their home lives more "normal." Why the guilt trip about saying that's not a life style I really covet? I am willing to do it for this kid, because he is truly the greatest kid ever and deserves all sacrifice. But it seems so weird to be getting this feedback about how damaging it would be to him to not make that commitment. I know very few parents who would make that commitment.

 

I think the key phrase is "moms who over-schedule their children."

It's a bit different though, when the drive comes FROM the child, and especially when that child is growing into a young adult, having to start balancing life, and making decisions about their life. I guess it just feels different to me to support a child in an activity they love, and then, when they *finally* reach the level of competition they've been dreaming about and working towards (with your support), to suddenly withdraw that support.

 

IME, self-motivated, driven, focused kids rise to the challenge, and accomplish amazing things. Pushed, un-motivated, trying to please their parents kids flame-out.

 

I will freely admit that a lot of what I am willing to do (or not do) for my kids is based on things that happened to me (or my dh), and how that made me (or dh) feel. I'm sure I'm projecting a bit ;). And, we're probably screwing them up one way or another, despite our best efforts not to:tongue_smilie:

 

And, I'm not trying to give you a guilt trip... I don't exactly relish getting up at 4:30 to drive my kids to meets, either. And, I'm not looking forward to those a.m. practices (should they ever achieve that level). Being at the Y 3-4 hours straight, 3-4 nights a week for practice BITES. But this is the *only* sporting activity we can do. My husband and I made this decision. We felt it was the best compromise we could make, that would allow our children to all participate in a sporting event. How far they go, well, that is up to them.

 

But, what I don't want to do, is take something important away from them when I don't have to. I might be okay with it for a little while (no more taxi mom), but if my kid was a senior and just missed cut-offs for nationals or a scholarship for a division 1 school he'd been aiming for, and I had purposely held him back for a year or two... I would have that regret, and I would always wonder what "could have been."

 

This is how *I* feel. I have enough regrets in my life of things I don't do as well as I'd like... I don't want to add to them. :D

 

My brother, the one who played college ball?, they don't allow their children to participate in *any* extracurricular activities. He doesn't feel they are important. Those are family choices... and they have always been that way. They limit their children in many other ways, as well (the kids can play music, but only good enough to accompany in church or play for family). I don't get it, but they are at least consistent.

 

Most people put the limits stuff like that early. "You can do gymnastics, but we're not going to competitions." "We don't do non-church activities on Sunday, so I'm sorry, we can't sign up for X." "You can play any instrument you want, as long as it's violin or piano." "Great! you love to swim...you can do summer league!" They don't wait until the child has earned the right to be on the travel team and then say... great work, sorry you aren't traveling. KWIM?

 

Right now, I have one child who is very passionate about swimming, my 10dd. In her words, "Swimming is her happy place." She's determined, she works hard, and she oozes happiness when she's in the pool. During summer swim, this was the child who was being ignored by the coaches, and taught herself fly and breaststroke by watching the big kids and attempting to copy what they were doing. During free swim, when everyone else was playing games... she was practicing. She's 100% committed. She skipped the developmental level altogether and went right into Age Group, because she worked that hard. She would rather swim than be in drama, girl scouts, choir or hand bells. She is the kid that will rise to the challenge to accomplish her goals. If that means up at 4am, practice at 5, school from 7:30-3:30, practice again from 4-6:30, and then more school from 7-9? She'd do it and love it. My 12ds? He is passionate about Computers, Transformers and LEGO. He has no real drive yet for anything, other than getting by with the least effort possible (that's a bit of an overstatement, generally, but if you are comparing my 10dd to my 12ds, pretty accurate).

 

I'm sorry...when I flash back to my middle-high school years, I tend to get very emotional. My parents made some pretty screwy decisions about things in my -- and only my -- life (they apologized later... but I'm still deal with the what-if's, even though I'm happy with my life now. Going through it and not coming close to being able to comprehend WHY, was really difficult). The "repeat year" was only one of the big things. Swimming was another, and what college I would be allowed to attend (regardless of scholarships and interest) was the third.

[Danestress]

for your gracious and forbearing response to my crabby and irritable post. It's been a hard weekend and I wasn't my best self.

 

I appreciate all your thoughts and those of everyone one who responded. It really helps to get input, which is what I love about this board. Swimming is a tough commitment for parents as well as kids (though I have to say, it's about half as hard as my job as a tennis Mom!) but like I said earlier, this is the kind of kid who makes you want to do a lot of stuff for him because he's just so ... fun. It's especially hard to think about a kid like that having disappointments. He has a lot of inner courage and resolve, and so we will see how he sorts this all out.

 

Love Dana

[LisaKinVA]

. It's especially hard to think about a kid like that having disappointments. He has a lot of inner courage and resolve, and so we will see how he sorts this all out.

 

We swimmer moms need all the help we can get! I have no idea what being a Tennis mom is like...so I'll take your word for it ;)

 

He sounds like a great kid...very level headed. I'm sure, should the time come, that he will see his limitations and adjust his expectations. And, he'll have mom to help him through!

 

I know what you mean about a kid like that having disappointments. I dread the day when my 10dd works incredibly hard for something and just isn't "good enough." My other kids are much more laid back. She's passionate. She feels deeply. It's bad enough when she gets a 98% on a Latin exam because something didn't upload, or she had an extra space -- but to give up a dream? :crying: I was intense as a kid, but she makes my 10yo self look downright laid back! :D

[NCMom]

I know he can draw his own conclusions and I am there to support him. But I am also there to drive him across town six nights a week for 2 1/2 hour practices. Which I do without complaint.

 

But next year he is starting at a brick and mortar high school. There are two "tracks" that he can be on as a swimmer with his club. One is highly competitive and has two practices a lot of days - one at 5:00 am. The other in the afternoon/evening. The other skips that early morning practice.

 

He probably wants to do the harder team (though he may not qualify for it). If he does, I will have to get up at 4:00 several days a week. Honestly, it's not a life style I really want. And it might be better for him academically to not have that morning burden. I would do it for him. I can't tell you the things I would do for this kid. But I would rather not if he has no chances of really reaching his swim goals anyway, and so I wonder if it's time for a talk about that. But if some kids have major "break throughs" in high school and that's a realistic hope, I don't want to discourage him.

 

So anyway, I actually have a reason for wanting answers, though I do understand that he's the one who has to reach conclusions ultimately.

 

I have seen it happen but it does seem rare; we had one kid on our old team that did suddenly level up. The few (almost all boys:) I have seen that suddenly went from B's to better-than-an-A were very athletic already though, just new to the sport. Or people who did the mile. Aack!

 

But the reality on the 3 teams we have been on in NC is that the people at States as 17 yo's are the same people that were there as 12/13yo's. Except some of the 13yo's peaked early and aren't there anymore. NC is so much more competitive than anywhere else we have lived.

 

I get up at 4 (and drive an hour to Asheville) now but honestly I don't know if I could do it for my B/BB swimmer. Fortunately she doesn't want to get up that early, lol. There literally are plenty of schools were she will be able to swim as a BBer who practices only 6 times a week, should she so choose.

 

One thing to think about if he does make it is that that the practices for the upper level swimmers are HARD. And you do not EVER skip without a darn good reason.

 

Not to mention the $260+ dollar swim suits - oh wait, you wouldn't have to pay that much with a boy...Lucky! :D

 

Edited to add - I would insist that he continue even if/when he doesn't make the higher group. High school swimming is FUN, and BB swimmers WIN. Those people on a US Swim team have a huge advantage and for that alone I would stick with it. He won't regret it when high school season comes, especially if he is 1A/2A!

 

Georgia

Edited February 5, 2012 by Georgia in NC
added high school stuff

[Danestress]

Then what, exactly, were you asking? I am confused. If your mind is made up, and he definitely is not making the advance team, then yea! Problem solved, no?

 

Terri

 

No, the problem isn't solved. The problem is that no one is willing to say, "Based on where you are now, it's unlikely you will ever meet your goal of being on the advanced team and getting XYZ cuts in high school" if that is indeed the case, but I don't know if it is. So my son is not able to make decisions based on realistic assessments, and I am afraid he will be massively disappointed and regret the investment of so much time and energy. Knowing which team he would be on next year is just one factor. I don't care so much about my time and money - I have enough of both. I will do what he wants. But he is trying to figure out what he wants, and it's hard to figure that out when you don't really know what you can expect of future performance.

 

I think if he could know right now that he would never get certain cuts and would never make the advanced team, he would either decide to swim happily at a lower level or would decide to try different things in high school - track, for example, or triathlons. And whatever he decides would be absolutely fine with me.

 

Swimming is a massive, massive commitment. He spends 3 hours a day 6 days a week if I include travel time. That's a lot of hours. I want to help him prepare emotionally for likely outcomes. Swimming is significantly less fun than it used to be because he is humiliated by how his hard work is not producing rewards. So he is starting to say, "I don't like this as much as I used to" and I don't know whether to say, "Stick with it a little longer kid, you will get there," or "Let's take a year off and try other activities." I just want to get my head around what the future is likely to be. If he swims on the slower team next year, should I encourage him to keep shooting for more? His coaches will encourage him, but I hate false hopes and he does too.

 

Do you think there is something wrong or disfunctional about my family that I feel like part of my job is helping to prepare my child for likely outcomes and to make decisions based on that? He's wonderful young man, but he's still young, and what his Dad and I say about things is still really important to him. So I am trying to figure out how to guide him. Don't you guys think that your guidance and mentoring is still important to your kids?

Edited February 5, 2012 by Danestress

[Danestress]

To answer your question, Yes. I do think he is appreciative of what we are willing to do for him. The whole situation is complicated by the fact that his twin brother is a very successful tennis player. I travel a lot with his brother and invest a lot in his tennis - more than swimming financially, and probably more time wise as well.

 

I agree it would be best if my son reaches his own conclusions about his swim career. I wish his coaches would be more honest in helping him reach them. I'd absolutely love to sit back and let them do that together, but I don't see that happening. Sigh.

 

Yes, parenting is hard. Though honestly, I think parenting my twin boys is easy comparatively. They are such good boys, so I am struggling with this, but we have it easy, I know.

[Danestress]

because he is NOT a sprinter, lol. But actually, he's having trouble with distance events recently. But his coaches are really good and they do seem to know how to develop each swimmer. I would guess this son will end up just a bit over 6 feet. He's 14 years old and 5' 7 or 8" I think. Very thin. He has, I am told, a good back stroke body. The real problem with him, though, is that everything has to go through the brain with him. He has to think it all through, and doesn't have a natural "feel." He over thinks everything. His coaches know this.

 

He actually loves open water swim and probably would be a very good triathlon candidate because he is fearless and a good runner, and he's just a hard core, gung ho kid. So I have thought about encouraging him to get into that, but the biking scares me.

[Sweetpeach]

He actually loves open water swim and probably would be a very good triathlon candidate because he is fearless and a good runner, and he's just a hard core, gung ho kid. So I have thought about encouraging him to get into that, but the biking scares me.

 

The price of said racing bike scares me . . .

[bettyandbob]

I would encourage him to join high school teams. Cross country in the fall, swim in the winter. I think you can suggest that he can get more involved in the school he attends. I sure there's a good way to do so.

 

If your ds does cross country he may find he has a real talent for running and an extremely well developed lung capacity from his hard work with swimming. He won't know unless he tries. Right now swimming is all he knows. Perhaps that is one reason he keeps at it--it is what he knows and doing something else is a big risk.

 

About 15 years ago a young man who was a club swimmer went out for cc at my local high school. His name is Alan Webb, as senior he broke Jim Runyon's record for the high school mile. Alan's name is still listed under some records for our local summer Swim league.

 

From my involvement in summer league I've known kids on a few different club teams. There have been a few who made a switch to running in high school very successfully. A know a young man realized he'd hit his max in swimming and has turned to triathlons and marathons and is very happy with his new achievements. I think the transition was hard, but once he saw his other talents and that his swimming had laid some of the ground work for those talents things have gone well.

 

Eta: I think your ds might be able to high school sports and the less intense club swimming practice group, so I'm not saying drop swimming.

Edited February 5, 2012 by betty

[plansrme]

Do you think there is something wrong or disfunctional about my family that I feel like part of my job is helping to prepare my child for likely outcomes and to make decisions based on that?

 

Really, out of my 2 previous posts, that is what you come up with? Not much I can do about that.

 

It looks as if you have really made up your mind that he is not going to progress. I understood the original post to be asking for insight on whether you can tell, at 14, whether a boy is going to excel at a particular activity. Then some of us offered input, but now it seems that he is not going to make the next level, no way, no how, which looks to me as if the problem ("is he going to progess?") is resolved. Obviously, I have misunderstood the whole thing, but I did want you to see why I posted, "problem solved."

I still don't know what you are asking, but it certainly isn't something I have any business trying to answer. Best of luck to both of you.

Terri

[Swimtaxi234]

:D ... can you tell we are also a swim family?

 

My 14-year-old is less than an arm's length away from an A time in the 50 free, but she will age up this spring. Will she ever be a "champion swimmer"? Probably not, but she absolutely loves swimming.

 

My 11-year-old is also just shy of A times in multiple events, but he is in the middle of a huge growth spurt and we are trying to rebalance his strokes. Thankfully he will have some time between now and long course to work on things. My son is crazy about swimming.

 

The price of said racing bike scares me . . .

 

Our children have participated in several triathlons and recently raced in a duathon (biking and running - 21 miles). My son asks me daily to check Craig's List for Trek, etc. bikes. Our local bike shop is also helping us try to find a beginner's bike for a reasonable price.

[bettyandbob]

The price of said racing bike scares me . . .

 

 

 

My local bike shop always has trade ins from triathletes who decide they need a fancier model. If I were entering the sport, I'd start with the trade in models. My niece was on her college cycling team, my brother bought her brand stuff, but that's not necessary.

[Danestress]

there probably are used bikes. I'm thinking he's 5' 7" or 8" now and will probably grow another 5 inches or so, so I haven't looked into it, but I assume that he would need a different bike after growing. Anyway, I have often thought about encouraging him to give triatholons a try, and we have a friend who is into that and does "iron man" all over the country, so I think he would give us good advice. Thanks for the encouragement. I will say biking scares me. But I could probably get over it.

[myfunnybunch]

The problem is that no one is willing to say, "Based on where you are now, it's unlikely you will ever meet your goal of being on the advanced team and getting XYZ cuts in high school" if that is indeed the case, but I don't know if it is. So my son is not able to make decisions based on realistic assessments, and I am afraid he will be massively disappointed and regret the investment of so much time and energy.

 

:grouphug:

 

No one is willing to say that because no one knows his future. It does sound like it's not likely to happen for him. He may be disappointed. You're a good mom for wanting to make things go smoothly for him. What do you think the outcome of telling him he's not likely to make the advanced team might be? I am concerned telling a young man he's not likely to be successful will either make him feel like he's already failed and lead him to give up without trying out, or make him feel crummy if he does try and doesn't make it. (But I don't know him, or you. I'm just throwing that out there as a possibility, not criticizing you or your desire to predict what might happen for him.)

 

By next year, he'll either have made the team or not. If he makes it, you get to celebrate with him. If he doesn't make it, then you guide him through the disapointment and help him figure out what to do next with his investment. We can learn just as much from striving to meet a goal and failing as we can from meeting it. How do we keep from folding or giving up in the face of disappointment? How do we take what we've learned and use it to continue to grow as people? You describe him as a great kid who has brought great qualities to his swimming and who has developed great qualities through his swimming. He won't be walking away empty-handed. :)

 

Cat

[Danestress]

:grouphug:

 

He won't be walking away empty-handed. :)

 

Cat

 

You are right. He is a lucky kid because he is very very good at several things, and I am sure that just as it seems unfair to him that he works so hard to be a mediocre swimmer, it probably seems unfair to other kids that he always wins all the academic awards. He knows he's genetically lucky even though swimming isn't going his way.

 

To answer your question about how he would respond to us telling him he's not going to make it as a swimmer, we really wouldn't ever say that. I would never get that ball rolling. It's just more than he will say, "I am so frustrated and it's not fun any more" and I have to decide whether to say, "Oh, keep working, you have come so far" or "You know, I think taking a year off and trying track or other sports might be great." Obviously I can present both possibilities, and he knows them anyway.

 

Someone else wrote about how teens have an 'identity' and that losing that 'swimmer identity' after 8th grade could be a bad thing. I agree. I know it's his choice, but I sort of hate to do anything to encourage him to quit now, and I also hate to discourage him from doing what seems right to him. Arg. Parenting! He's having a terrible swim meet this weekend. Adding 5 and 7 seconds in several events. It's crazy bad. I think maybe he is getting sick.

[Danestress]

If he doesn't make the "faster" team this next year, he could still make it the next year. Or the next. It's not a four year placement. So the temptation is to tell that he should go where he's placed, try his best, and be a good sport, and keep trying.

 

It's his choice of course. I am not sure how he feels about it, and right now it's very emotional around here about it, given his truly dreadful meet this weekend.

[LisaKinVA]

:grouphug: a bad meet, is just that, a bad meet. But, if your son is having his own doubts, and he's in his own head over thinking everything, that could be as much of the problem (with his times) as anything else. He's probably putting so much pressure on himself to "make it" that he's his own worst obstacle to improving (My 10dd can do this...overthink, put too much emphasis, etc. that her brain is doing stuff OTHER than just swimming)

 

I've learned a lot more from what you've posted since your initial query. He's 14, old enough to really sit down and talk about his goals, and what's the "worst case" when it comes to swimming. Does he love swimming so much that if he stayed a BB or B/C swimmer all through high school, that he would be happy, if he knew *right now* that this is as good as it's going to get? Or does the thought of swimming to "just" be a BB or B/C swimmer throughout high school make him feel like he would have wasted his time? I guess what I'd say is that if he has *any* doubt that he might want to try something out other than swimming, his freshman year is the time to do it.

 

There's no wrong answer, but I'd still encourage him to swim as much as he can, and at minimum, swim for his high school team. There is nothing wrong with taking a step back and changing course, especially if he's having doubts.

 

My 9th and 10th grade years in high school, I was all about music. I was certain I was going to get a music scholarship and become a music major. Music had been a huge part of my life. I was intent on learning every instrument I could to beef up my resume (I began with flute...and added clarinet, piccolo, oboe, bassoon, saxophone, piano and percussion... I made all-district my first year on bassoon.) However, I also tried speech and debate my sophomore year, and after acting as my mom's surrogate speaker in her race for school board my junior year, I found my real passion, and followed THAT to college (still playing music, of course ;)).

Even though I LOVED speech/debate, I still enjoyed music. I had invested a lot of time into it, it was still hard giving up that particular dream. I don't have any regrets about that choice, though.

 

For your son, the time for him to answer that big "even if" question is coming... "Even if, this is as good as I will ever be, is it worth it...right now?" Put aside all of the what if's and what might be's, and search your soul. If swimming is really what he loves, and he really can't imagine doing much beyond that, his answer will be "Yes...I'm happy just doing my best, even if I never get AA/AAA/AAAA times." If it's not... then it's time to explore other options while still doing swimming as much as is comfortable.

 

Oh, and decisions like that on the back of a bad meet...not recommended. ;)

 

:grouphug:

[Danestress]

that is the conversation we need to have - thank you for helping me think it through that way and to find the essence of the decision he has to make.

 

And thank you for reminding me that one doesn't have these conversations on the heels of a really bad meet.

 

I really appreciate how much time you invested in helping me think this through and frame the issues. It takes another Mom to understand how much these things can burden a mother's heart for her child. I feel much better now that I have hashed this out with my boardies!

[ZooRho]

that is the conversation we need to have - thank you for helping me think it through that way and to find the essence of the decision he has to make.

 

And thank you for reminding me that one doesn't have these conversations on the heels of a really bad meet.

 

I really appreciate how much time you invested in helping me think this through and frame the issues. It takes another Mom to understand how much these things can burden a mother's heart for her child. I feel much better now that I have hashed this out with my boardies!

 

I don't know if any one could really tell you if he will really be good enough. I do think the coaches should be a bit honest, but I do think you can't always tell. Maybe it will just kick in and it will all come together for him.

 

yes you can talk with him, but sometimes you also just need to back off. We've had to back off of our ds this year. He had some struggles with hospitalizations, and then a very restrictive diet which is really fun when they need 4,000 cals, then shoulder issues. and more it just seems to pile up with him at times. It really is hard it is like he is never in peak shape for the "big" meets.

 

DS probably does have potential but I'm not sure what he really would want to do with it either.

 

as I said above he just started doing the early morning practice in the last year and he is 16 now