zaichiki Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 :grouphug: I mean this gently, but firmly: It, quite frankly, does not matter if the mention of counseling sets her off. It is a tricky business to force someone into counseling. Generally, in order for counseling to work, one has to be willing to talk to the counselor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrogMom5 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Your heart really hurts for her. Mine would too. :grouphug: You are right about waiting a bit on the counseling. Maybe you could find a good book about loss to open a bridge between the two of you. Ds and I read a book about a girl dealing w/the loss of her big brother. I had had two stillbirths and it helped us talk about them. It was a very gentle and tender story. I am sorry that I don't remember the name of it. We got it at the library though, so maybe your librarian can help you find it, or something similar. And yes, hopefully she will begin to open up to her riding instructor. Sometimes young teens will talk to a trusted adult outside the family before talking to mom or dad. Prayers for you both. Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 It is a tricky business to force someone into counseling. Generally, in order for counseling to work, one has to be willing to talk to the counselor. I agree, but even if it came down to that it MAY come down to her staring at the counselor and not speaking and then finally breaking down and it all gushes out. I think that OP could coerce her into talking to a therapist and it may not even HAVE to come down to 'force', kwim? I didn't mean strong-arm her, but MANY, MANY people say,"I don't want to go to counseling", but can be persuaded otherwise. ETA: Maybe with the increased time at the barn maybe things can be worked out without it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5knights3maidens Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 I didn't say our children's pastor would be counseling her. I said he is willing to talk to her. His wife would be present (and of course, I could be present as well). Anna is very close with them. Frankly I don't know what his degree is in. I don't believe you need a degree in counseling to be a listening ear and to pray with and for someone. I know how some feel about this type of ministry, but honestly, if I do seek counseling for her, it will be along side of ministry at my church. I want healing for her, spiritual healing included. I hope this doesn't come off as defensive; it's not intended to be. Just trying to answer your questions. You know I love ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Praying for you all. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Family counseling. Emma in particular is likely to benefit from being included; she probably has a lot of anger at being victimized, but when there is a volatile child in the mix, the other sibs often feel they have to hide their emotions/objections in order to keep things on an even keel whenever possible. Counseling will be a safe place for her to express anger and unhappiness, and counseling will help give you an objective viewpoint and the tools you need to deal with her. I don't think it matters, in the immediate sense, if it's bipolar or grief and hormones. Many people benefit from counseling for grief. Her behavior needs to be addressed, no matter the cause. As hard as it is for you, it's twice as hard on her siblings, who have no power - they are essentially hostage to her, as they are not only younger and smaller but also unwilling to go to the same lengths as she is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I agree, but even if it came down to that it MAY come down to her staring at the counselor and not speaking and then finally breaking down and it all gushes out. ? In red, dh and I have done that with one of our children. The 'I'm not going to say a word' and the 'that's fine with me' thing lasted until the child walked into the room and met the psychologist. They were talking in less than 5 seconds. You know, people in that kind of field learn ways and learn to read people and they can seemingly do nothing BUt in an instant, the person is talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 A few more thoughts on counseling, after reading the latest posts. It's true that you can't truly force someone into counseling, which is one reason family counseling is so beneficial - she probably won't feel as singled out or reluctant. But even if she refuses to participate in any way, counseling will benefit the rest of the family and give you coping mechanisms. Re Christian counseling, the only thing I will say is that your dd might be very reluctant to share shameful or embarrassing things with people she knows and admires. It would be better to have them refer you to someone she doesn't know. I would also have long talks with the sibs about the situation. They need to know that it's okay to tell you things, to 'complain' and to ask for the things they want and need. My reading and my personal experience tells me that sibs often work very hard not to rock the boat, that they are often truly afraid of the raging sibling, and that whatever you see older dd doing/saying is only the tip of the iceberg. She is likely doing and saying far worse things to her siblings when you aren't right there. Please note that I'm not saying you don't know these things or do these things already; I don't know, so I'm just saying it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I didn't say our children's pastor would be counseling her. I said he is willing to talk to her. His wife would be present (and of course, I could be present as well). Anna is very close with them. Frankly I don't know what his degree is in. I don't believe you need a degree in counseling to be a listening ear and to pray with and for someone. I know how some feel about this type of ministry, but honestly, if I do seek counseling for her, it will be along side of ministry at my church. I want healing for her, spiritual healing included. I hope this doesn't come off as defensive; it's not intended to be. Just trying to answer your questions. You know I love ya! As a former Children's Pastor's wife who has been involved in quite a few of these scenarios I would strongly caution against this. There is no easy way to say this. Eventually, it erodes into an enmeshed relationship where either the child or the parent feels awkward at the amount of very personal information the children's minister (and his wife are privy to). Good fences make good neighbors. It could possibly make your dd feel less "safe" and like she has to put on an act every time she is around them and does not want her struggles to come up, be thought of. If she wants to talk to them (like a teenager would talk to their youth pastor outside of their parents direct knowledge) that is fine, but I would be very cautious with how much they are brought in. Your children's minister does not need any details to love on her and pray for her. Professional counselors will do a much better job handling the gritty details. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 As a former Children's Pastor's wife who has been involved in quite a few of these scenarios I would strongly caution against this. There is no easy way to say this. Eventually, it erodes into an enmeshed relationship where either the child or the parent feels awkward at the amount of very personal information the children's minister (and his wife are privy to). Good fences make good neighbors. It could possibly make your dd feel less "safe" and like she has to put on an act every time she is around them and does not want her struggles to come up, be thought of. If she wants to talk to them (like a teenager would talk to their youth pastor outside of their parents direct knowledge) that is fine, but I would be very cautious with how much they are brought in. Your children's minister does not need any details to love on her and pray for her. Professional counselors will do a much better job handling the gritty details. :grouphug: Duly noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) My heart tells me this is grief along with a strong personality and hormones. Hard combo, huh? I really want to handle this gently with grace and understanding. I am trying to look at it from all angles; I just want to see my little girl happy. I am not 100% convinced that she needs to see a counselor at this time, but then again, I'm not convinced she doesn't. She is wonderful at the barn. She and her instructor are very very close. Her instructor is about 60, so she is like a grandmother to Anna. I am so thankful for their relationship. Thank you. ETA, I'm not saying that you feel like this, just sharing some of how I felt as we worked through a kid's anger. :grouphug: You know what one of the stupidest things I felt was? That because I was the person all of the anger was aimed at, because I was the one crying all the time, I should be the person to bring healing. Sounds just, right? :tongue_smilie: Sometimes that just ain't so. She gets angry the most with you because you're safe. Because she knows, above all, that you will love her no matter what. She doesn't want to be this way. No one *wants* to be miserable and angry and rage. Horses and older wise women are gifts from God. Steady, gentle, understanding. :grouphug: Edited November 30, 2011 by justamouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Anger in children is often a disguise for depression. And we all know depression is hereditary. That said, then I was a pretty lousy teen at home -but perfect outside- because you feel safe at home and can let it all out. I'd suggest coming to terms with the lost beloved cat. That it probably walked away and found a mate and that you think it is time another cat gets a chance a being loved and cared for. Many thoughts to you, Nakia, for sharing and caring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 You've been given lots of advice already so I just wanted to offer some :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauranc Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The best advice I can give is to not be afraid of her anger. Anger is a completely normal and important emotion. Our anger helps us know when something is *not right*. Teaching her that anger is totally normal and actually a very important emotion will help her to also not be afraid of her anger and learn not to pretend it isn't there. Then you can help her handle her anger in appropriate ways. She isn't going to be perfect, and it may be a long ride... but if you keep at it, she will be ok! At a time when she is calm, just ask her what kinds of things make her feel better. Bubble baths? Taking a walk? Going into a darkened room? Anything that will help her immediately feel better is the key I think. She needs tools to deal with her anger appropriately. Lots of talking... lots of being *very calm*. It is rough, I know. My oldest raged and could be very scary. There were a number of times over the years where my husband would take the other 2 out of the house so my oldest could rage and be done with it (without scaring the other kids). I also used to take him in the car and let him have at it. Honestly, it was spill over stress and emotion and sometimes he just needed to get it out. It never, ever worked for me to match his anger or threaten etc... He has, over time, become calm and thoughtful. Anger is dealt with appropriately nearly all of the time. No raging etc... Being patient, and helping him work through it was the hardest thing I've ever done though! Just make sure she (and you) understands that the anger is not the enemy. That people get angry for a reason... it's normal. It's what we do with our anger that is the issue. She can learn to take care of her anger and find things that help her calm down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The best advice I can give is to not be afraid of her anger. Anger is a completely normal and important emotion. Our anger helps us know when something is *not right*. Teaching her that anger is totally normal and actually a very important emotion will help her to also not be afraid of her anger and learn not to pretend it isn't there. Then you can help her handle her anger in appropriate ways. She isn't going to be perfect, and it may be a long ride... but if you keep at it, she will be ok! At a time when she is calm, just ask her what kinds of things make her feel better. Bubble baths? Taking a walk? Going into a darkened room? Anything that will help her immediately feel better is the key I think. She needs tools to deal with her anger appropriately. Lots of talking... lots of being *very calm*. It is rough, I know. My oldest raged and could be very scary. There were a number of times over the years where my husband would take the other 2 out of the house so my oldest could rage and be done with it (without scaring the other kids). I also used to take him in the car and let him have at it. Honestly, it was spill over stress and emotion and sometimes he just needed to get it out. It never, ever worked for me to match his anger or threaten etc... He has, over time, become calm and thoughtful. Anger is dealt with appropriately nearly all of the time. No raging etc... Being patient, and helping him work through it was the hardest thing I've ever done though! Just make sure she (and you) understands that the anger is not the enemy. That people get angry for a reason... it's normal. It's what we do with our anger that is the issue. She can learn to take care of her anger and find things that help her calm down. :iagree: This is a great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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