I'm about ready to "defenestrate" our Latin study--someone talk me down!

[melissel]

Someone once told me Latin was so much easier than it sounded, but I'm finding it extremely confusing and much more difficult than I thought it would be. I'm also not loving LfC A :( It has some weird little inconsistencies and odd things, and I feel like it neglects to teach bits and pieces or seems to underplay their importance, then it asks questions about them in the worksheets or quizzes. This is adding greatly to both DD's and my frustration. The big stuff is there, but the little things are making me want to :banghead:

 

I really want to have DD learn Latin, and I wanted to learn alongside her, but given the issues we're having with our schedule (Latin lessons do NOT take the suggested 30 minutes per day--if we only spent 30 minutes a day, neither of us would remember the stuff we're supposed to be memorizing!) and with attitude, I am so tempted to drop it. But I know if I drop it now, it will be 10 times as hard to pick it up again someday. Argh!

 

Can anyone convince me to keep going? Or can anyone regale me with stories about how happy they were to have dumped Latin overboard? I've been plugging away at it with DD (I have my own activity book and everything), but my cheerful persistence is waning!

 

TIA if you got this far :tongue_smilie:

[Haiku]

I'd say try a different program. I was going to use LfC until I got it in my hands, and then I realized it would be totally wrong for us. The issue you brought up about the little things that they underplay but then test on was one thing that bugged me.

 

We are going to start with Getting Started with Latin. A lot of people also like Lively Latin.

 

Tara

[JudoMom]

Get Visual Latin and Getting Started with Latin (or just Visual Latin, but I like to add in GSWL for extra practice).

[Zoo Keeper]

Please try Getting Started with Latin; it is very incremental and easy to keep up with.

 

A friend of mine tired GSwL first, but thought it was boring, because it was done in such "baby steps." She has flirted around with numerous other Latin programs, but is now coming back to GSwL. Her anaylsis is that slow and steady will win the race. :)

[wapiti]

:iagree: Try another program! Try GSWL. You won't be sorry :)

[Halcyon]

:iagree: Try another program! Try GSWL. You won't be sorry :)

:iagree:

[Colleen in NS]

Someone once told me Latin was so much easier than it sounded, but I'm finding it extremely confusing and much more difficult than I thought it would be. I'm also not loving LfC A :( It has some weird little inconsistencies and odd things, and I feel like it neglects to teach bits and pieces or seems to underplay their importance, then it asks questions about them in the worksheets or quizzes.

 

Can anyone convince me to keep going?

 

I'm not familiar with LfC, as we've used PL/LCI/LCII/Henle. But I will say that I had never studied Latin before beginning Prima Latina with my kids. I did have a hard time at first, even in the first two or three years. At first it was because I just couldn't understand what a declension was and how it worked. It took me awhile to figure that out and wrap my head around the fact that there are different declensions and different endings for different reasons. Then, I'd get frustrated with mistakes or assumptions in the actual Latin programs. But between searching the Memoria Press forums for corrections to the books, and help from these forums, I made it through that huge hump. And now, well, I haven't been able to keep up with what my son is learning, but he absorbs the concepts very easily (or at least he has so far, though we are at another somewhat of a wall right now 2/3 of the way through Henle I), so he keeps going with me supervising and making sure he does his memory work, knows his grammar forms/vocab/rules, and correcting his work and making sure he understands the WHY behind his mistakes. And, I do learn (in my short-term memory) the new concepts he comes across, just so I can help him with any snags in understanding. And taking my daughter through the books before Henle (she's in LCII now) has been a BREEZE!!!!! Far different experience from the first time around!

 

All that to say, I vote for keeping on keeping on! :D

 

What exactly are you confused about? Maybe we can help you.

[melissel]

Thank you, everyone. I really don't have the money for another program right now, so I'm going to give LfC another go, but if I end up really hating it, I'll move to GSWL before I give up altogether.

 

Colleen, yes, we're struggling with learning the first declensions right now. Neither DD nor I can seem to remember the forms correctly this week, though we've had no problems memorizing thus far. I don't know, I feel like LfC is just throwing memorization at us without much explanation--I'm memorizing things that I have no real context for. And this week we learned the declension for mensa, but the maxim they have us learning has a noun in it that is completely unrelated to the declension we're learning, so I was confused about how the noun was used in the maxim because it didn't match what we learned this week at all. Little things like that are throwing me off. The macrons are killing me! I have no idea how when and how are used, and sometimes they are used in the primer book but not in the worksheets that go with the chapter... I know every curriculum has little errors like this, but I'm so completely in the weeds with Latin that the errors are knocking me even further off track.

 

I'm sure you're right--I'll learn with her and eventually the bumps will smooth out, and teaching my younger will be much easier. But ugh! Given how tightly packed our schedule is these days, it's soooo tempting to drop Latin to give us some breathing room, even though I really don't want to.

 

I'll keep going. I won't give up yet. Thank you for the pep talk!

[dieuog]

An (I hope) encouraging word about macrons:

There's not much to understand about how they work. For the most part, they're just part of the word you have to learn. You don't write them (which may be why they're not in the workbook); you just remember to pronounce them. But generations of lazy Latin learners have never bothered to learn them properly, so it's up to you.

Yes, they're handy to know when it comes to reading poetry etc., but if macrons are the straw that's threatening to break the back of your curriculum, why not just forget about them?:001_smile:

[Faithr]

I love Latin for Children! I'm wondering what exactly it is that you think they underplay and then test for later? I don't recall this. We are on LFC B right now. My one objection is that LFC throws a lot of vocabulary at the child but then there's no reinforcement or reading that really correlates to it, so the student doesn't get to practice the vocabulary in context. But I figure it is just an introduction and once we get into really being able to read it, that will all come? My simple advice when dealing with tests is to look at the test first so you know what they are looking for and then watch the DVD lesson and work through the workbook. We took two years or more to get through LFC A. You are homeschooling! You do not need to go at the recommended pace, you can go at the pace that suits your student and you! So spend 30 minutes on what it is you feel you can achieve. There's no race! You have to be flexible and think outside the box. It is hard to do self-study when something is new to you! You have to be adaptable.

 

Macrons are a pain but important. They are really confusing at first. Just be patient and don't let it get to you. The folks who do LfC are very friendly, you might e-mail them with your confusion. I have not noticed any typos with the macrons. But then, I might not have been paying close enough attention. Have you checked out their website to see if there is an errata sheet?

 

As for the saying you memorize that doesn't correspond to what you are learning, compartmentalize! Not everything is connected in that way. I think you have just change your expectations there. It didn't even occur to me that they needed to correlate! I thought it was more for vocabulary and familiarity than demonstrating a declension. I have just learned why e pluribus unum is written that way! I didn't know my superlative adjectives! I've been studying Latin (very, very slowly) for 5 years now! (my motto is from G. K.Chesterton: a thing worth doing is worth doing badly! It gets rid of all my perfectionist tendencies! LOL!) Anyway, I've grown to really enjoy Latin, though, along with raising children, it is about the hardest thing I've ever done!

 

Oh an the absolute best way to learn declensions and conjugations is to march around the room chanting them. Do this very often! I also write them on our whiteboard so that at any given moment we can pause and give ourselves a quick 30 second review. My kids can chant them at the drop of a hat!

 

Good luck to you. Don't despair. I think Latin for Children is a great program, but take it at your own pace. Latin is very hard to learn. Be gentle on yourself. Take it a step at a time.

[Another Lynn]

Thank you, everyone. I really don't have the money for another program right now, so I'm going to give LfC another go, but if I end up really hating it, I'll move to GSWL before I give up altogether.

 

Colleen, yes, we're struggling with learning the first declensions right now. Neither DD nor I can seem to remember the forms correctly this week, though we've had no problems memorizing thus far. I don't know, I feel like LfC is just throwing memorization at us without much explanation--I'm memorizing things that I have no real context for. And this week we learned the declension for mensa, but the maxim they have us learning has a noun in it that is completely unrelated to the declension we're learning, so I was confused about how the noun was used in the maxim because it didn't match what we learned this week at all. Little things like that are throwing me off. The macrons are killing me! I have no idea how when and how are used, and sometimes they are used in the primer book but not in the worksheets that go with the chapter... I know every curriculum has little errors like this, but I'm so completely in the weeds with Latin that the errors are knocking me even further off track.

 

I'm sure you're right--I'll learn with her and eventually the bumps will smooth out, and teaching my younger will be much easier. But ugh! Given how tightly packed our schedule is these days, it's soooo tempting to drop Latin to give us some breathing room, even though I really don't want to.

 

I'll keep going. I won't give up yet. Thank you for the pep talk!

 

I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb to say that GSWL will solve every frustration you list here. All new endings and vocabulary are taught in the context of translation... and very slowly and gently. We memorized just from translating everyday although you could certainly make flashcards of your own and drill if you want. It will definitely give your schedule breathing room as you can do a lesson in about 15 minutes. It might not get you as far along by the end of the year as LFC would, but slow and steady and all that.... plus you won't hate it. If you haven't looked at it yet, it might surprise you how cheap it is - it's only one book, probably around ~$20 or so.

[Verity]

I love Latin for Children! I'm wondering what exactly it is that you think they underplay and then test for later? I don't recall this. We are on LFC B right now. My one objection is that LFC throws a lot of vocabulary at the child but then there's no reinforcement or reading that really correlates to it, so the student doesn't get to practice the vocabulary in context. But I figure it is just an introduction and once we get into really being able to read it, that will all come? My simple advice when dealing with tests is to look at the test first so you know what they are looking for and then watch the DVD lesson and work through the workbook. We took two years or more to get through LFC A. You are homeschooling! You do not need to go at the recommended pace, you can go at the pace that suits your student and you! So spend 30 minutes on what it is you feel you can achieve. There's no race! You have to be flexible and think outside the box. It is hard to do self-study when something is new to you! You have to be adaptable.

 

Macrons are a pain but important. They are really confusing at first. Just be patient and don't let it get to you. The folks who do LfC are very friendly, you might e-mail them with your confusion. I have not noticed any typos with the macrons. But then, I might not have been paying close enough attention. Have you checked out their website to see if there is an errata sheet?

 

As for the saying you memorize that doesn't correspond to what you are learning, compartmentalize! Not everything is connected in that way. I think you have just change your expectations there. It didn't even occur to me that they needed to correlate! I thought it was more for vocabulary and familiarity than demonstrating a declension. I have just learned why e pluribus unum is written that way! I didn't know my superlative adjectives! I've been studying Latin (very, very slowly) for 5 years now! (my motto is from G. K.Chesterton: a thing worth doing is worth doing badly! It gets rid of all my perfectionist tendencies! LOL!) Anyway, I've grown to really enjoy Latin, though, along with raising children, it is about the hardest thing I've ever done!

 

Oh an the absolute best way to learn declensions and conjugations is to march around the room chanting them. Do this very often! I also write them on our whiteboard so that at any given moment we can pause and give ourselves a quick 30 second review. My kids can chant them at the drop of a hat!

 

Good luck to you. Don't despair. I think Latin for Children is a great program, but take it at your own pace. Latin is very hard to learn. Be gentle on yourself. Take it a step at a time.

 

Wanted to say we are on year 3 of Latin here, getting towards the end of LfC B with my oldest and LfC A with my middle son. I have been learning along with my older son and have really found it to be a success. Memorization is part of alot of basic learning and capitalizes on the inherent memorizing skills of the grammar stage. We have found the chants to be really helpful and I was gratified that my middle son already knew most of the chants when we started on LfC A with him last year becuase he had listened to older ds and I the previous year.

 

You didn't mention if you used the dvd's? I have found them to be invaluable - they reinforce everything in a way that makes alot of sense to me. I have been able to buy both sets used at about half the cost and it is definitely worth it!

 

My oldest ds liked LfC so much that he pestered me to start Greek for Children this year as well - so he and I are learning two classical languages together now. I really want those new dvd's as well but he doesn't feel we need them. We'll see! :P

 

 

Everyone has different learning styles, it wouldn't hurt to see if you could sample some of the other systems, I tried PL first and just didn't like alot of things about it even though I have gone the MP route on other subjects.

 

I would encourage you to look around, but don't give up on Latin. I really believe that it will be worth it in the long run - if only for understanding medical/legal terms and vocabulary roots.

[NancyNellen]

Thank you, everyone. I really don't have the money for another program right now, so I'm going to give LfC another go, but if I end up really hating it, I'll move to GSWL before I give up altogether.

 

Colleen, yes, we're struggling with learning the first declensions right now. Neither DD nor I can seem to remember the forms correctly this week, though we've had no problems memorizing thus far. I don't know, I feel like LfC is just throwing memorization at us without much explanation--I'm memorizing things that I have no real context for. And this week we learned the declension for mensa, but the maxim they have us learning has a noun in it that is completely unrelated to the declension we're learning, so I was confused about how the noun was used in the maxim because it didn't match what we learned this week at all. Little things like that are throwing me off. The macrons are killing me! I have no idea how when and how are used, and sometimes they are used in the primer book but not in the worksheets that go with the chapter... I know every curriculum has little errors like this, but I'm so completely in the weeds with Latin that the errors are knocking me even further off track.

 

I'm sure you're right--I'll learn with her and eventually the bumps will smooth out, and teaching my younger will be much easier. But ugh! Given how tightly packed our schedule is these days, it's soooo tempting to drop Latin to give us some breathing room, even though I really don't want to.

 

I'll keep going. I won't give up yet. Thank you for the pep talk!

 

I have been using LfC for years now and I would agree with some of the pp's. Right now, just memorize. The context comes later and will then be much easier because the memorization will be done. Also, the maxim is simply a common Latin saying and may have nothing to do with the vocabulary you are learning. It's just a fun little quip to memorize.

 

What helped us immensely early on was stretching each LfC chapter out over 2 weeks. We would watch the video on day 1 and then spend the remainder of the 2 weeks practicing with the worksheets and the Activity Book. It helped to make things less frenzied.

 

HTH,

[acurtis75]

What helped us immensely early on was stretching each LfC chapter out over 2 weeks. We would watch the video on day 1 and then spend the remainder of the 2 weeks practicing with the worksheets and the Activity Book. It helped to make things less frenzied.

 

HTH,

I was going to suggest something similar. We never actually spend 30 minutes a day on Latin and go through an entire lesson. We take 1 1/2 to 2 weeks per lesson. Generally we watch the video the first day and then for two or 3 days just practice the chant several times. A lot of days we do this in the car on our way to activities. After a few days of practicing the chant THEN we start the workbook pages. I've found this helps both of us. We are definately figuring it out together. Some days we have to look at the answer key to make sure we're getting it right. We also do the activity book which dd enjoys and is reinforcement. I guess my main point would be don't rush. We plan to work on Latin year round to make sure we don't forget things so I don't feel compelled to spend 30 min. a day on it.

[acurtis75]

My oldest ds liked LfC so much that he pestered me to start Greek for Children this year as well - so he and I are learning two classical languages together now. I really want those new dvd's as well but he doesn't feel we need them. We'll see! :P

.

 

How's the Greek for Children going? My dd really wants to start it soon. We are 7 chapters in to LFCa and I've been putting her off because I wasn't ready to try to tackle another language right now. We did the Code Cracker for the alphabet and she has the letters down pretty well (me...not so much:glare:). Is there are particular point you think we should pass in LFC first or would you recommend just jumping in while she's interested?

[Mystie]

Hi, I'm new to the boards (well, I've lurked on and off for years). We're in our third year of "real" homeschooling. My oldest is 8 and we started LFC A this year. We're on ch 9.

 

I think 2 weeks per chapter is perfectly reasonable. Slow and steady and not stressed is better than frustration or giving up.

 

The chant isn't related to the vocab; it's just a common saying. The approach seems very heavy on the memorizing straight without context, then learning the context and logic after the chants are down. That is a pretty standard neoclassical approach. We do Latin 30 minutes or so 4 days a week, but review the chant CD in the car, during our Circle Time, and my son recites one chapter's memory page during his independent memory work review daily. So we sit down with the book 20-30 minutes 4 times a week, but we sneak review in the corners, too. Also, I don't treat the quizzes like tests, and I'm not insisting on perfect memory or mastery before moving on. We just keep going and keep hitting the extra review as we go. One week is the Mensa chant, then just the endings chant, and so it seems like there is built in review. The grammar lessons are very small, bite-sized pieces -- not enough at once to make real sense, but small enough to get the hang of in a week, I have thought so far. I was already a grammar buff, but declensions are new to me. On that lesson, then, I realized declining is to nouns what conjugating is to verbs, but it was only in this last lesson that he began addressing the cases we have been working on memorizing.

 

One reason it might be frustrating is that he is going very, very slow with the grammar explanations, but rather fast with the vocab. So what you're memorizing doesn't make sense yet, but you'll slow and steady get there. LFC does want you to memorize without context. I'm ok with that, but I can see how that could be frustrating, especially if you thought you were supposed to be getting what isn't explained yet.

 

My son's favorite part is the derivatives. :) Oh, and he also loves the headventureland.com games, so that's another avenue of review he gets. Oh, we also don't do all the activity sheets. I let him pick one per chapter.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Mystie

[Colleen in NS]

Colleen, yes, we're struggling with learning the first declensions right now. Neither DD nor I can seem to remember the forms correctly this week, though we've had no problems memorizing thus far. I don't know, I feel like LfC is just throwing memorization at us without much explanation--I'm memorizing things that I have no real context for.

 

Is your daughter bothered by this, though? I found I was bothered, because as an adult I wanted the whole picture. But my (then) younger parts-to-whole kids didn't care, and they memorized without wondering why. The explanations and understanding did eventually come in the curriculum.

 

And this week we learned the declension for mensa, but the maxim they have us learning has a noun in it that is completely unrelated to the declension we're learning, so I was confused about how the noun was used in the maxim because it didn't match what we learned this week at all.

 

Like others said, don't worry about that now - just memorize the sayings so that your kids can say, "Hey, I know some Latin! 'Ego amo te!'" The understanding of the grammatical structure of these sayings will come later - and chances are your kids will figure them out before you do, and then they can explain it to you. :lol:

 

Little things like that are throwing me off. The macrons are killing me! I have no idea how when and how are used, and sometimes they are used in the primer book but not in the worksheets that go with the chapter... I know every curriculum has little errors like this, but I'm so completely in the weeds with Latin that the errors are knocking me even further off track.

 

I'm embarrassed to say that we've paid no attention to macrons - the books we use don't seem to emphasize them, and I'm not sure why they are important...I should probably figure that out! But, our lack of paying attention to them has not hindered our learning the grammar and vocab (at least not in a way that I am aware of, though I am open to correction on that!).

 

I'm sure you're right--I'll learn with her and eventually the bumps will smooth out, and teaching my younger will be much easier. But ugh! Given how tightly packed our schedule is these days, it's soooo tempting to drop Latin to give us some breathing room, even though I really don't want to.

 

I'll keep going. I won't give up yet. Thank you for the pep talk!

 

It's alright, too, if you slow down your Latin study, to give you some breathing room.....

Many times there are just one or two simple concepts that I just don't get. Some concept a book feels is too obvious, or maybe I've made something too complex in my head. In these cases, you can be stuck on your own for hours or days, when just the tiniest bit of help from an expert would set you straight and break open the logjam.

 

While Latin isn't impossibly hard, it's a lot easier with an expert around. There are a lot of Latin experts here on this forum, and many others on other forums on the internet. If you can stuck with something, I'd encourage you to ask around sooner rather than struggling alone.