I dropped the ball on cursive- now what?

[plain jane]

My 5th grader can read cursive, knows how to form all the letters properly and can write cursive legibly but that's where it ends. She doesn't know how to connect some letter combinations properly and her letters don't have the proper slant. I've totally dropped the ball on her cursive work because it took her so darn long to do that I encouraged her to print to get stuff done (vs dragging out school and everyone miserable). We also had some goings on last year that made our school year very difficult.

 

That said, I'm not excusing myself for totally dropping the ball, but I don't know what to do. Now that she's in 5th and knows how to type, I prefer her to type up her good copies since it saves a lot of work if her pieces require further editing. Plus, it looks nicer & it's they way things will need to be for high school.

 

I had been having her do her rough drafts in cursive but it was taking a lot of time & her quality of writing is lower because she has to put so much thought into forming the letters.

 

If I make her do a practice cursive book, it's another 15 minutes added to the day and I have to watch her like a hawk (which I guess is how I dropped the ball in the first place). If I make her do her good drafts in cursive for practice (and correct mistakes as I catch them- I am usually in the room when she does her work) it takes 2-3x longer for her to get good copies done- time that could be spent on content areas or other writing pieces. But, I feel guilty that she doesn't have beautiful cursive.

 

I had thought to perhaps have her do her grammar worksheets and spelling in cursive to get practice that way? It would make those subjects take longer & she won't like that.

 

I feel terrible. Anybody have a solution for us?

 

Dare I ask how important cursive is? :o :leaving:

[JudoMom]

How is her printing? Can she print quickly and legibly? It seems to me you've taught her the basics. I know I don't write in cursive--it's more of a print hybrid. I teach my boys the basics and let them decide on which style of writing to use (my older 2 print & my middle son does cursive at times and prints at times).

[Guest]

I agree. let it go. Make sure she can sign her name and move on to more important things, like quality of writing.

[mytwomonkeys]

if you did want to teach it, handwriting without tears was really quick and painless. my daughter learned it last year in two weeks time. it was so simple.

[Ellie]

She should write everything in cursive. All the time. Every day.

 

Back in the day when every school taught cursive, the actual instruction was just a few minutes per day; the practice came in with writing everything in cursive.

 

The more she does it, the easier it will be.

[Sara in WA]

It's not too late! Your daughter is just in 5th grade, not in college. Start now and (like previous poster said, I'm too tired to find the "quote" button), make her write in cursive every day. It may be a bit painful at first but it will get easier and will be worth it.

[Serenade]

Well, my so didn't even start learning cursive until 5th grade. His printing was plenty bad, so we worked on that instead. He's in 6th now, and moving along with the cursive, and I think he's doing fine. It's not perfect, and he still has a hard time writing from his head, as opposed to copying things, but I think he'll get it. We just do a little a day, and I've started asking him to do (tiny) bits and pieces of his regular written work in cursive, too.

[ElizabethB]

I would do spelling in cursive, that wouldn't add much time but would add in some cursive. It should add in too much time because that's something you would need to be checking and reading right then anyway.

 

I like this book for an older child, you can use it for reference and just write the words somewhere else, then you can re-use it with your other children. It shows the strokes and joins well, it has detailed instructions about how to join each type of stroke to other strokes.

 

:grouphug:

 

My daughter's isn't perfect yet, either, we are working on it this year. With my son, I'm doing cursive before print, I wish I had done cursive earlier with my daughter, but she started writing at 3 1/2 and was not able to physically manage cursive at that age so I taught her printing first and waited a bit too long for cursive.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

She should write everything in cursive. All the time. Every day.

 

Back in the day when every school taught cursive, the actual instruction was just a few minutes per day; the practice came in with writing everything in cursive.

 

The more she does it, the easier it will be.

 

:iagree: I am in the process of switching ds over to cursive. It is time consuming but he has been practicing cursive about 10-20 minutes a day for a couple of years. I am adding in typing this year too but I really want him to learn cursive. That is how I learned it.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Why? I'm wondering why we should write in cursive at all.

 

I taught my first son only cursive and was flamed here for not yet getting to printing. :lol:

 

I'm just trying to decide how I feel about all of this. I admit I don't write much (type most things) and when I do it's a hybrid of print and cursive.

 

Writing cursive is so much faster than printing when one is proficient at it. It only takes about year to become proficient from what I vaguely recall. They switched us over in 4th grade. I also think cursive is a benefit since I think it helps one's brain think better too with that mind-hand thing (I am having trouble wording this).

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Yeah, but I'm not convinced based on my own experiences. I had excellent handwriting in school and when left to my own devices (meaning I could choose how to write things) I naturally gravitated towards the print/cursive hybrid. That felt the quickest to me. And I've done enough writing to know. And I'm back in the day enough to remember writing 25 pages (typed) by hand and then typing them out on a manual type writer.

 

I started with cursive with my oldest. He will be ten in a couple of months. Imagine daily practice in cursive since he was 4 and his handwriting is slow and sloppy as heck. I don't know what to make of that.

 

Perhaps another type of cursive such as HWT which looks like a hybrid? I, myself prefer cursive. Now some of my capitals I write print style such as "S" but I bascially write in cursive. As for your ds, I don't know. I would definitely add in typing though which I am doing with ds. DS's cursive is slow but he is getting better and faster. I had him write out 2 of his pretty long papers in cursive and plus we are doing spelling in cursive in addition to handwriting practice. I plan on switching him completely soon.

[Jen+4dc]

Why? I'm wondering why we should write in cursive at all.

 

I taught my first son only cursive and was flamed here for not yet getting to printing. :lol:

 

I'm just trying to decide how I feel about all of this. I admit I don't write much (type most things) and when I do it's a hybrid of print and cursive.

:iagree::iagree:

 

I've taught my kids cursive. Yes, they finished the whole cursive book, but they never liked it. This was not a hill I was willing to die on, it just wasn't. They know enough cursive to read it easily and to sign their names. Honestly, the world they are going to live & function in as adults is all about digital! So, they can read cursive, but they must master typing. My oldest who is currently in ps 9th grade goes to a school that actually issues laptops to the students and most of her peers take notes in class on their laptops. I see typing as being necessary to the future far more than cursive. For whatever my opinion is worth......:D

[NotSoObvious]

In this day and age, if your child can read and is at least able to write, if asked, in cursive, and it's not important to you, I'd say just drop it.

From 5th grade on, all of my final papers had to be typed (giving away how young I am). I never had anything written by hand in college, and, unless cursive was required in elementary school, I never chose to use it- and I went to a school that made sure we were super proficient in cursive.

Cursive is not part of the new common core and it's already optional in many states. Over the next few years, I see most schools teaching the formation, but not requiring anything beyond that. FWIW, 3rd graders at my old public school not only took typing, but could type a simple paper. Yes, some of you don't care or compare to what public schools are doing, but some do.

 

In any case, if you don't feel like it's super important, then it's not. If it's important to you, then yes, everything, everyday in cursive until it comes easily. But honestly, I wouldn't beat yourself up about it.

[Crafty Mathy Mom]

Perhaps another type of cursive such as HWT which looks like a hybrid? I, myself prefer cursive. Now some of my capitals I write print style such as "S" but I bascially write in cursive. As for your ds, I don't know. I would definitely add in typing though which I am doing with ds. DS's cursive is slow but he is getting better and faster. I had him write out 2 of his pretty long papers in cursive and plus we are doing spelling in cursive in addition to handwriting practice. I plan on switching him completely soon.

 

Getty-Dubay Italic does this. It's sort of what my handwriting morphed into during high school.

[Haiku]

Writing cursive is so much faster than printing when one is proficient at it.

 

I am proficient in cursive but I print much faster. I keep hearing the cursive is faster, but in my adult life I have experimented with several writing styles (and even had people time me; I'm that big of a nerd) and printing always comes out fastest.

 

My dd is in 4th. We did some cursive when she was in second grade with StartWrite. I ended up hating StartWrite, and then our computer crashed and I had lost the SW cd, so we just stopped doing it. We started again this year with some generic cursive book. I have her do some copywork in cursive every day but other than that I don't worry about it. It's really not that hard to learn, and she'll find her own writing style as she gets older.

 

Tara

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

That is what I use. HWT.

 

OTOH, I chose not to use HWT with ds since it looked choppy and not as flowing as traditional cursive. I think traditional cursive might be easier to write since you hand movements flow so to speak:)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:iagree::iagree:

 

I've taught my kids cursive. Yes, they finished the whole cursive book, but they never liked it. This was not a hill I was willing to die on, it just wasn't. They know enough cursive to read it easily and to sign their names. Honestly, the world they are going to live & function in as adults is all about digital! So, they can read cursive, but they must master typing. My oldest who is currently in ps 9th grade goes to a school that actually issues laptops to the students and most of her peers take notes in class on their laptops. I see typing as being necessary to the future far more than cursive. For whatever my opinion is worth......:D

 

I sort of see your point but there are tons of people my age who grew up in the 60s and 7os who can both type and write cursive. I don't think it has to be one or the other;)

Edited October 20, 2011 by priscilla

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

In this day and age, if your child can read and is at least able to write, if asked, in cursive, and it's not important to you, I'd say just drop it.

From 5th grade on, all of my final papers had to be typed (giving away how young I am). I never had anything written by hand in college, and, unless cursive was required in elementary school, I never chose to use it- and I went to a school that made sure we were super proficient in cursive.

Cursive is not part of the new common core and it's already optional in many states. Over the next few years, I see most schools teaching the formation, but not requiring anything beyond that. FWIW, 3rd graders at my old public school not only took typing, but could type a simple paper. Yes, some of you don't care or compare to what public schools are doing, but some do.

 

In any case, if you don't feel like it's super important, then it's not. If it's important to you, then yes, everything, everyday in cursive until it comes easily. But honestly, I wouldn't beat yourself up about it.

 

Honestly, I think the schools are dropping the ball by dropping cursive:(. It was not too time consuming to teach at all.

 

Also, I think there is an advantage to taking notes in cursive on paper versus typing them. Writing notes in cursive is faster and handwriting notes helps to cement the facts in your brain better than typing IMHO since it uses more senses so to speak.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I admit I can't stand the style, but it was easy to teach. My son's cursive started off looking better than it does now. Now that he has added his own "flair" (cough) it's just really bad.

 

I started teaching him how to print. So far it's looking very nice. I'm hoping he goes hybrid and at least develops something legible! :D

 

:001_smile: I agree that HWT or Traditional or something in between is fine. I did not think HWT was ugly so to speak. I just felt that it looked like it actually might be harder to write than traditional cursive.

[JudoMom]

Honestly, I think the schools are dropping the ball by dropping cursive:(. It was not too time consuming to teach at all.

 

Also, I think there is an advantage to taking notes in cursive on paper versus typing them. Writing notes in cursive is faster and handwriting notes helps to cement the facts in your brain better than typing IMHO since it uses more senses so to speak.

 

But it's not faster for me, and never has been, so the faster argument for cursive just doesn't hold water. And yes, I was taught cursive in school and was required to use it :001_smile:.

[Bluegoat]

One thing that migh put cursive in a different direction is if your daughter is artistic at all, look at doing some caligraphy as part of art. There might be a course aavailable locally, and you could look into things like illuminated manuscripts and maybe actually produce some.

 

Writing beautifully is a lot more interesting when it includes exotic pens and ink and illustrations.

 

In some places there are clubs for calligraphers, or the Society for Creative Anachronism also has people who produce medieval style documents.

 

I don't think it's something you need to do, and I think some students will probably never be great at writing. But it might be worthwhile just as a matter of appreciating the beautiful.

 

I tend to think cursive makes the most sense taught first, before printing - that's where it is really useful as well as beautiful.

[Iucounu]

OP, if I were you, I'd just skip it. There are bigger fish to fry, your child is printing well, and computer use increases every year. By the time your child gets to college written work will be marginalized further.

 

Writing cursive is so much faster than printing when one is proficient at it.

IIRC that is actually not true. A hybrid style, where a person naturally learns to print but without lifting the pen(cil) from the paper, with an individual style, is faster than either, however.

 

ETA: http://www.sbac.edu/~werned/DATA/Brain%20research%20class/handwriting%20speed%20style%20legibility%20berninger.pdf

 

"Text copied with mixed-mostly manuscript was written approximately 19 letters per minute faster than text copied in cursive... and 16 letters per minute faster than text copied in manuscript... Text copied with mixed-mostly cursive was written approximately 13 letters per minute faster than text copied in cursive and 10 letters per minute faster than text copied in manuscript..."

 

So there you have it: cursive is not faster; if anything, it's slower than printing; mixed styles are fastest; mixed styles with more printing than cursive are the fastest. Now one can argue that you need to learn cursive in order to use a mixed style (I would disagree) but not that cursive is superior.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Iucounu

[zenjenn]

In this day and age, if your child can read and is at least able to write, if asked, in cursive, and it's not important to you, I'd say just drop it.

 

I agree with this.

 

I think public schools that are dropping cursive entirely are being premature, but I do get the sentiment of - it's the 21st century, having high-quality cursive penmanship is not particularly relevant.

 

No argument for those who value cursive by choice, but as far as a practical and necessary life skill - being able to read cursive communication and sign one's name is about all that is strictly necessary. By the time most of our kids are adults, it'll be rare that one even has to print, let alone use cursive, on a day-to-day basis.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

But it's not faster for me, and never has been, so the faster argument for cursive just doesn't hold water. And yes, I was taught cursive in school and was required to use it :001_smile:.

 

Were you required to use it for 8 years from 4th to 12 grade? I was:) I actually think cursive should be started prior to printing as they did in days of old:)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

OP, if I were you, I'd just skip it. There are bigger fish to fry, your child is printing well, and computer use increases every year. By the time your child gets to college written work will be marginalized further.

 

 

IIRC that is actually not true. A hybrid style, where a person naturally learns to print but without lifting the pen(cil) from the paper, with an individual style, is faster than either, however.

 

ETA: http://www.sbac.edu/~werned/DATA/Brain%20research%20class/handwriting%20speed%20style%20legibility%20berninger.pdf

I noticed these studies where done in the late 80 and early 90s which may affect the results possibly IMO. where schools already dropping the ball on cursive then? It would affect the results IMO. I graduated highschool in the 70s and there might lie the difference since cursive was rigorously taught:D

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I agree with this.

 

I think public schools that are dropping cursive entirely are being premature, but I do get the sentiment of - it's the 21st century, having high-quality cursive penmanship is not particularly relevant.

 

No argument for those who value cursive by choice, but as far as a practical and necessary life skill - being able to read cursive communication and sign one's name is about all that is strictly necessary. By the time most of our kids are adults, it'll be rare that one even has to print, let alone use cursive, on a day-to-day basis.

 

IMHO then they are missing out on a valuable too to help brainstorm and to help cement facts in their brains:(. The value of writing is great when it comes to remembering things and brainstorming IMHO. IMHO typing does not come up to this level as a tool for remembering.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I was too. When I got to college I obviously was no longer required to use it and that is when I developed my own much quicker style (which was mostly print). And to top it off we weren't allowed to turn anything in that wasn't typed (which I found very annoying because I had just spent the last 12 years being required to turn everything in written in cursive).

Which is why I am adding in typing too:D I think both can be done:)

[Iucounu]

I noticed these studies where done in the late 80 and early 90s which may affect the results possibly IMO. where schools already dropping the ball on cursive then? It would affect the results IMO. I graduated highschool in the 70s and there might lie the difference since cursive was rigorously taught

 

The study is dated 1998 and was done on students who were proficient in cursive, printing, and mixed styles. Thus the results wouldn't be affected. The cursive-using students in the study habitually used cursive, so had plenty of practice in it.

 

It's wholly inaccurate that cursive is faster. You may prefer it, it may have some benefits for some people of reduced strain, etc. (evidence would be good to see if this were asserted), but it's not faster.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Iucounu

[Penelope]

OP, if I were you, I'd just skip it. There are bigger fish to fry, your child is printing well, and computer use increases every year. By the time your child gets to college written work will be marginalized further.

 

 

IIRC that is actually not true. A hybrid style, where a person naturally learns to print but without lifting the pen(cil) from the paper, with an individual style, is faster than either, however.

 

ETA: http://www.sbac.edu/~werned/DATA/Brain%20research%20class/handwriting%20speed%20style%20legibility%20berninger.pdf

 

"Text copied with mixed-mostly manuscript was written approximately 19 letters per minute faster than text copied in cursive... and 16 letters per minute faster than text copied in manuscript... Text copied with mixed-mostly cursive was written approximately 13 letters per minute faster than text copied in cursive and 10 letters per minute faster than text copied in manuscript..."

 

So there you have it: cursive is not faster; if anything, it's slower than printing; mixed styles are fastest; mixed styles with more printing than cursive are the fastest. Now one can argue that you need to learn cursive in order to use a mixed style (I would disagree) but not that cursive is superior.

 

:iagree:

 

And having come across many middle-aged to older adults (mostly men), well-educated people, mind you, who have barely legible handwriting even after years and years of writing by hand in cursive over many years of schooling, I think it's something either the person cares about, or they don't. I'd guess most people who are older than 35 who went to school for years and had to write reams and reams (including taking notes and writing for their jobs) by hand, have learned to write as quickly as possible, which doesn't usually translate to the best-looking handwriting.

[DB in NJ]

I dropped the cursive ball too. So now my 7th grade ds is going through a Peterson book, and it's going very well.

 

HWT just doesn't sink my submarine, ya know? I used Peterson with my oldest, and it worked wonders for him too.

 

Peterson Handwriting

 

Rainbow Resource carries this too, btw.

[Guest]

I have read research that shows writing in cursive makes connections in the brain and people who do are more creative. But doesn't learning anything new make new connections in the brain? ANyway, I am teaching my younger two starting yesterday because I want them to have the experience. Whether they use it or not is up to them. My thinking is exposure, not torture. My olders know it, do not use it. I write using a hybrid of print, cursive, and italics.

 

I would be more inclined to go with an italic like the UK style IF the available choices here were not so bad, IF the UK choices for this were more readily available as workbooks and fontware, IF the spacing between letters was not so exaggerated on GD and Penny Gardner's, and IF all the letters connected. How confusing is it to try to remember which do and which do not and where they connect?

 

I wanted to add my younger sons both taught themselves to print starting with CAPS at about 2-3 years old. Now I was teaching the older 2 cursive at the time so it was not like they were not seeing cursive on the walls and in books. I think the whole 'teach cursive first' thing is not really true, if by my experience of my 5, kids teach themselves print first. Perhaps the point then is since they know print by having taught themselves, learning cursive 'first' instead of teaching them what they know for the first 3 years of school is the better use of time.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Guest

[Jen+4dc]

I sort of see your point but there are tons of people my age who grew up in the 60s and 7os who can both type and write cursive. I don't think it has to be one or the other;)

No, it doesn't, I'm one of those 70's babies who can do all three. But, with everything else I want to teach my kids, harping on cursive just isn't that important to me.:tongue_smilie:

 

My youngest wants to learn cursive so she'll probably master it: because she wants to. The others can read it and sign their names. Again, not a hill to die on, I'd rather read another good book with them and discuss it or go on a field trip. But, that's just me.

 

...It was like I could not think and type at the same time. Now, after spending so much time doing it, I can think more easily while typing. I have a hard time sitting down and writing out something long (and thinking). I think it really is all what you are used to doing. You can learn to do it either way. And as I said before, typing is much faster so I can cover a lot more ground in a much shorter period of time.

My kids also think faster and type faster than they do cursive or print. I think it's generational and a matter of interest.

 

To the OP: decide if it's important to you or not and then either act on it or let it go, we have enough in life to stress about.;)

Edited October 20, 2011 by Jen+4dc