How do I address my son's giftedness in math?

[Alicia64]

I'm so not the kind of mom who goes around calling her kid "gifted." But without boring you w/ detail it's becoming apparent that this truly not gifted mom isn't exactly meeting the needs of her gifted son.

 

We do Math U See and are in gamma. Both of my boys are in third grade. My one son who is a lot like me plugs along basically the way you'd expect a third grader to plug. . . he complains, gets it and moves onto the next page.

 

My other son just flies through his pages and is clearly not challenged. This son takes after dh who was called gifted for math and science and put into mathathons etc.

 

My dh seems adamant that just because ds is very smart in math we shouldn't speed him along until he's frustrated.

 

So. . . any suggestions? I'm not sure what to do. I'm not gifted. I was beyond ecstatic to simply pass algebra with a B in college. And I was never once considered for a mathathon. So you see my problem. :001_smile:

 

I'd love your advice.

 

Thanks,

 

Alley

[joannqn]

If he never has to stop and think, he'll probably give up when things finally get difficult. It is important to challenge kids at their level to avoid either giving up easily when things are hard or losing interest in learning altogether. I made the latter mistake with my daughter.

 

Most people suggest Singapore Math for a gifted student. I was confused by Singapore's methods so I chose to stick with MUS through Algebra. At first, I let him zip through as many pages as he wished (up to 12 in one day). I finally got smart and quit requiring him to do every problem on every page when it was clear he already knew the material. We went through Gamma over the summer because DS didn't want to wait until the school year started. I didn't have a student book, so I used DD's finished pages and wrote the problems on the white board. We did 1 or 2 pages of each lesson. We zipped through Delta, Epsilon, and Zeta doing only the test pages for most lessons. He had previously taught himself almost all of the problem types in these levels so all I was doing was ensuring he truly knew the work. Since he got almost every problem right on every test, it was obvious he didn't need to complete the lessons and practice. We slowed down for prealgebra and algebra, though they weren't difficult for him.

 

We're now working on Art of Problem Solving Pre-Algebra; we had to go back because this curricula is much harder than MUS and teaches concepts not covered by MUS. If I could do it again, I would have switched to AoPS after Zeta.

 

 

As far as not knowing the material yourself, you'll probably want to either learn it with him and/or find him a class or mentor to work with him.

[Alicia64]

If he never has to stop and think, he'll probably give up when things finally get difficult. It is important to challenge kids at their level to avoid either giving up easily when things are hard or losing interest in learning altogether. I made the latter mistake with my daughter.

 

Most people suggest Singapore Math for a gifted student. I was confused by Singapore's methods so I chose to stick with MUS through Algebra. At first, I let him zip through as many pages as he wished (up to 12 in one day). I finally got smart and quit requiring him to do every problem on every page when it was clear he already knew the material. We went through Gamma over the summer because DS didn't want to wait until the school year started. I didn't have a student book, so I used DD's finished pages and wrote the problems on the white board. We did 1 or 2 pages of each lesson. We zipped through Delta, Epsilon, and Zeta doing only the test pages for most lessons. He had previously taught himself almost all of the problem types in these levels so all I was doing was ensuring he truly knew the work. Since he got almost every problem right on every test, it was obvious he didn't need to complete the lessons and practice. We slowed down for prealgebra and algebra, though they weren't difficult for him.

 

We're now working on Art of Problem Solving Pre-Algebra; we had to go back because this curricula is much harder than MUS and teaches concepts not covered by MUS. If I could do it again, I would have switched to AoPS after Zeta.

 

 

As far as not knowing the material yourself, you'll probably want to either learn it with him and/or find him a class or mentor to work with him.

 

Thanks Joanne. The reason I want him to actually get through gamma is because he still needs to memorize the multiplication tables.

 

I appreciate your feedback! I'll show it to dh and go from there.

 

Alley

[acurtis75]

If he never has to stop and think, he'll probably give up when things finally get difficult. It is important to challenge kids at their level to avoid either giving up easily when things are hard or losing interest in learning altogether. I made the latter mistake with my daughter.

 

Most people suggest Singapore Math for a gifted student. I was confused by Singapore's methods so I chose to stick with MUS through Algebra. At first, I let him zip through as many pages as he wished (up to 12 in one day). I finally got smart and quit requiring him to do every problem on every page when it was clear he already knew the material. We went through Gamma over the summer because DS didn't want to wait until the school year started. I didn't have a student book, so I used DD's finished pages and wrote the problems on the white board. We did 1 or 2 pages of each lesson. We zipped through Delta, Epsilon, and Zeta doing only the test pages for most lessons. He had previously taught himself almost all of the problem types in these levels so all I was doing was ensuring he truly knew the work. Since he got almost every problem right on every test, it was obvious he didn't need to complete the lessons and practice. We slowed down for prealgebra and algebra, though they weren't difficult for him.

 

We're now working on Art of Problem Solving Pre-Algebra; we had to go back because this curricula is much harder than MUS and teaches concepts not covered by MUS. If I could do it again, I would have switched to AoPS after Zeta.

 

 

As far as not knowing the material yourself, you'll probably want to either learn it with him and/or find him a class or mentor to work with him.

 

Since you are using the same curriculum path I am planning to use maybe you can offer some suggestions. My dd6 is good in math but it's not her favorite subject so she's not self-motivated to work through pages and pages of math like I hear other people's accelerated kids like to do. We are on the last gamma lesson now. I came to the same conclusion you did recently and stopped making her do all 6 pages each week. Her tests are almost always perfect. She makes mistakes occassionally during the week while working on worksheets because she isn't focused and doesn't want to do it (i.e. she stops in the middle of problems and daydreams about tinkerbell). If I sit with her she works every problem correctly with no errors. She generally does this the very first day we watch the video and doesn't require any extra instruction.

 

Here's my questions:

 

1) By doing only 3 sheets a week (I'm doing worksheets d-f so she gets the systematic review) we'll finish 2 or 3 lessons per week which would put us even further ahead in a subject she's not interested in. Would you slow down...maybe only do half a page a day? supplement with something else on same topic? Spend the extra time in Science or History which she loves? Or would you just keep moving ahead?

 

2) Would you go straight from Zeta to AOPs with a child who doesn't like math or would you just go ahead with MUS thru Algebra and then switch over?

 

3) Do you think AOPs will be more interesting and therefore switching sooner rather than later will benefit a child who is more interested in language arts than math?

[Crimson Wife]

1) By doing only 3 sheets a week (I'm doing worksheets d-f so she gets the systematic review) we'll finish 2 or 3 lessons per week which would put us even further ahead in a subject she's not interested in. Would you slow down...maybe only do half a page a day? supplement with something else on same topic?

 

I have no experience with MUS, but since you've got a couple of free days per week, I would encourage you to use those to work through the Singapore Math Intensive Practice books. They really challenge a child to think deeply similar to the way the AOPS materials do for the higher levels. I would probably start with the 2B IP book.

[veggiegal]

I supplement my son with fun/challenging word problems, like from the Math Olympiad. You can find the books on the Art of Problem Solving website here. I'd also suggest allowing your son to create his own math problems for you (or whomever) to solve. It tickles a different part of the brain.

 

I'd also suggest looking into some books from the living math site here. The Number Devil, Adventures of Penrose the Mathematical Cat, and various titles in the Charlesbridge Math series (Sir Cumference et al) pop to mind as good possibilities for him. There's also a series that was half math being applied, and half telling a real life story. Panda Math is one title in the series--google or amazon it and you should find more. My 9 year old really liked these.

 

My older also really likes the challenge of riddles and puzzles. Balance Benders, Math Analogies, Balance Math and More and Crypto Mind Benders from CTC would all be good choices for a math-gifted kid; there are no doubt countless others. Perhaps your son would enjoy kakuro (cross-sum) puzzles? See here:

 

http://educatingrisa.com/2010/03/04/kakuro-puzzles-math-facts-practice/

 

Another idea is to supplement with videos. The Story of 1 starring Terry Jones is excellent; my older also really liked Marcus du Sautoy's The Story of Math and Music of the Primes, but be aware there is some dark / adult content to these latter ones.

 

I also supplement with logic puzzles of all kinds (again, see CTC and Prufrock Press). Lastly, we do lots of math games and what I call "math investigations"--like the connection between odd numbers and square numbers (here), finding patterns in Pascal's triangle (here and here), what binary numbers are (here), figuring out that the interior angles of a triangle add to 180 degree (make a straight line) by ripping paper (here), etc.

 

I know there are good math games out there as well--perhaps others can chime in on that front. One game that my older likes for the challenge (though it starts quite simply) is called Animal Logic, which my kids tried out here. Good luck and have fun!

 

Oh, and you could also set him up on Khan academy and let him go at his own speed.

[veggiegal]

If I could do it again, I would have switched to AoPS after Zeta.

 

 

 

Very interesting Joannqn. That is exactly the point at which I plan to switch my older to AoPS (we also use MUS), which will likely be sometime next "school" year. He's getting his feet wet with the Math Olympiad problems now, and watching some of the videos on the AoPS site. MUS has been an excellent spine for us, though--no complaints here, though I have always supplemented (and would do so with any program). We may well continue MUS all the way to the end (older sooooo does not like change!) but I would likely be viewing it as a supplement, not a spine, past Zeta. The challenge of AoPS suits us both well. :D

[momofabcd]

The best advice I can give is don't jump ship. Continue with Math U See and let him go at his own pace. If he gets a concept quickly, move on. Then put him in the next level. He may eventually slow down. If he doesn't, that's okay. Just let him go at his pace. Math U See is meant to be used that way.

[joannqn]

I've made so many mistakes, in hindsight, with my kids and I supposedly know them best. The answer will vary based on the student and your goal for their education.

 

I know I wouldn't make a child do all of the practice problems if they already mastered the concept before starting. That's just drudgery. I think it is okay to give the first page, and if it is obvious no further practice is necessary, skip pages B and C. I'd probably skip one or two of the review pages as well. You might find a lesson here or there that you need to cover in more detail; just do more on those lessons. Eventually, you'll get to the point where your child doesn't have all of the answers and needs to actually slow down, practice, and learn.

 

If I didn't want my child to get too far ahead of grade level, I'd spend the rest of math time on supplemental fun stuff: math/logic/strategy games, Khan Academy, Math Olympiad, living math books, stuff like that.

 

One thing that MUS is seriously lacking for the math student is problem solving, so adding that in as supplemental would be great.

 

I wouldn't necessarily switch to Art of Problem Solving for a student who was good at math but not interested in it. I'd probably choose a solid basic curricula for a student not likely to go into a math or science field. For kids like my son, who lives and breathes math, AoPS will prepare them for upper level college math classes.

 

As a mom who enjoyed math in school, I love AoPS. The way it explains simple concepts like doing arithmetic with negative numbers is similar to a geometric proof. I loved proofs when I took geometry way back in 9th grade.

[Alicia64]

Every one of you is so great. Thank you. I really appreciate the wisdom and specific math sites -- I'll be checking them out.

 

Thank you again so much,

 

Alley

[Joyofsixreboot]

My 15 yo is a math whiz ( not sure I like the term gifted). He enjoyed number puzzles, logic puzzles, sudoku and chess. Don't make it all work.

[joannqn]

Here are some good math games. I learned about most of these from a Math Salon held by two university professors who work with gifted kids (teaching weekend and summer classes).

[redheadmom]

MEP is free. You could just print out the practice sheets to give your "gifted" son a little more challenge without doing the full curriculum.

[lewelma]

The reason I want him to actually get through gamma is because he still needs to memorize the multiplication tables.

 

My son found math concepts easy but the memorization of the tables difficult. We did them concurrently but considered them 2 separate subjects. At age 9, he was 4 years ahead in the concepts, and a year behind in the memorization. It worked out just fine. Just don't let him use a calculator and make him drill everyday.

 

Ruth in NZ

[NittanyJen]

I supplement my son with fun/challenging word problems, like from the Math Olympiad. You can find the books on the Art of Problem Solving website here. I'd also suggest allowing your son to create his own math problems for you (or whomever) to solve. It tickles a different part of the brain.

 

I'd also suggest looking into some books from the living math site here. The Number Devil, Adventures of Penrose the Mathematical Cat, and various titles in the Charlesbridge Math series (Sir Cumference et al) pop to mind as good possibilities for him. There's also a series that was half math being applied, and half telling a real life story. Panda Math is one title in the series--google or amazon it and you should find more. My 9 year old really liked these.

 

My older also really likes the challenge of riddles and puzzles. Balance Benders, Math Analogies, Balance Math and More and Crypto Mind Benders from CTC would all be good choices for a math-gifted kid; there are no doubt countless others. Perhaps your son would enjoy kakuro (cross-sum) puzzles? See here:

 

http://educatingrisa.com/2010/03/04/kakuro-puzzles-math-facts-practice/

 

...<more excellent post>...

 

Oh, and you could also set him up on Khan academy and let him go at his own speed.

 

This is exactly what I was going to suggest; look at all that typing Veggiegal saved me!! :D.

 

Math is such a huge subject, people sometimes forget there is lots to explore "wider" instead of just going on a forced march forward through the "standard" sequence, and some of this other stuff is genuinely fun! Particularly if your child is truly adept at math but not seeing the fun in it some of these options may change that tune a bit.

 

Another option (an additonal option) would be to start playing with some computer programming. Granted, a DD6 is a little young for it, but some programming environments like Alice can be enjoyed sitting together with Mom or Dad or an older sibling, and a really bright kid can start catching on quickly; probably a good 3rd graderish (8?) could do it solo. Programming really gets into the logic circuits that math uses, and Alice is really fun and is kid-friendly (and free!) to learn and use (download at Carnegie-Mellon's website).

 

Have fun and enjoy! Math can be explored in pretty much any context without just marching forward-- biology (population ecology, etc) physics, economics, home economics, finance, chemistry, quilting, Egyptian pyramids, art, name anything, and there is a way to explore math with it!

[....]

If he never has to stop and think, he'll probably give up when things finally get difficult. It is important to challenge kids at their level to avoid either giving up easily when things are hard or losing interest in learning altogether.

 

:iagree: This is very important when working with gifted kids. Also, I think they have really bad study skills, which can backfire on them in college. If they're challenged (in theory), they should develop some good "take on a challenge" skills and study skills.

 

We use math mammoth, supplemented with Miquon, Singapore's Challenging Word Problems and Kitchen Table Math. I'm adding in Hands-On Equations this year. We'll also check out living math books from the library.

 

Have you looked at the AoPS website? http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/

[....]

Another option (an additonal option) would be to start playing with some computer programming. Granted, a DD6 is a little young for it, but some programming environments like Alice can be enjoyed sitting together with Mom or Dad or an older sibling, and a really bright kid can start catching on quickly; probably a good 3rd graderish (8?) could do it solo. Programming really gets into the logic circuits that math uses, and Alice is really fun and is kid-friendly (and free!) to learn and use (download at Carnegie-Mellon's website).

 

Thanks for sharing that idea! My son might be interested in that!

[veggiegal]

. I'm adding in Hands-On Equations this year.

 

Oh, yes, I had forgotten about this one--had my eye on it for years. I already do something like this (teach algebra concretely, using the idea of 'balancing' both sides of an equation), but plan to get this next 'school' year. Older had a look at the videos on their site with me this past summer, and was intrigued. We just had enough math stuff on the go for this year, and by next year younger will have enough math under his belt to join us as well.

[MeghanL]

I didn't see Khan Academy mentioned, so I will throw that into the ring as well. It's free and it allows students to be exposed to the higher level math with video tutorials and the chance to try without it being the "official" curriculum.

[gratitude]

I don't like to call my son gifted either. Other people do, but I prefer not to. I went through a gifted program in school, and the label isn't helpful with life challenges that matter the most.

 

Onto subject!

 

My gifted math son uses Singapore. My son who is very good in math, but I don't think of him necessarily as gifted uses MUS. I don't do every page in math u see though since he understands concepts faster than the program. I will occasionally bring out the manipulative for my gifted son, 8, if he seems a little stuck and his answer is always, "I don't need those I can figure it out." And he can, in his head. My son that is good in math loves the blocks. So the son, gifted in math, who doesn't need math help uses Singapore and does great with its very math oriented teaching. Does this help?

[StephanieZ]

I have no experience with MUS, but since you've got a couple of free days per week, I would encourage you to use those to work through the Singapore Math Intensive Practice books. They really challenge a child to think deeply similar to the way the AOPS materials do for the higher levels. I would probably start with the 2B IP book.

 

I agree that the SM word problems challenge thinking similarly to AoPS, albeit on a much simpler level. Dd8 found the PreAlg AoPS Pretest word problems *very* easy. She is in SM5, which she also finds very easy, lol, but she stated that "These word problems [on the pretest] are like 4th grade word problems!"

 

I love SM for elementary for math gifted kids. Although I have much less experience with AoPS, I am quickly becoming equally devoted to AoPS for secondary math.