What math skills do you think your dc need to know to live a productive life?

[A home for their hearts]

I am really getting bogged down with our math curriculum. We are using K12 through our state virtual academy. Some of the things that are being taught in elementary math I never learned till I was in high school, and in fact I don't use in my day to day life! What math skills would you consider most important to be able to fuction in the adult world. So many things we learn in school is really just a waste of time.... What do you think?

[Critterfixer]

Without touching the math things, here's something to chew on.

In college I opted to take a field botany class because I was interested in it. I was told by my advisor not to take it, because 1." It wasn't needed in my major, 2. It would screw up the schedule for me to get my Animal Science degree, and 3. Why would you ever need that anyway?

 

But I took it, and I've never regretted learning it. I did need it in second year vet school. It did screw up the animal science degree, which in the long run, was not really so important. I use it today in teaching my children.

 

Just because something doesn't seem important at the time, does not mean that it won't be important at another time. Things they learn now they may not use in content, but the learning of them can be applied over and over again to things that they don't learn in school that they will learn as adults. Who knows? They may have a better foundation for teaching math (or any other subject) because of what they are learning now. (As an example-how I learned to key out plants in botany is now being applied to rocks and minerals, which I never studied before now. And I'm loving it!)

[wapiti]

I wouldn't limit what math my kids need to know according to what I now personally use in my everyday life as a mom. That would completely close off all sorts of college majors and careers as well as closing off doors of college admissions, not to mention the problem-solving abilities and mathematical logic that can be applied in other, seemingly non-mathematical areas (e.g., I can talk about how math made me a better lawyer :)). One of my goals is to keep as many doors open as possible for my kids' futures.

 

That said, maybe what you're really complaining about is the particular scope and sequence and/or the teaching of K12, which I am not familiar with.

[regentrude]

Several thoughts on this.

Math skills open the door to many opportunities for professions which otherwise would remain firmly shut. Without higher math, you can not be an engineer, a scientist, a doctor (even if you do not USE the math as a doctor, you compete for a spot in med school with students who have several semesters of calculus), a pharmacist (pharmacy school requires calc and calc based physics), and even a veterinarian has to pass college physics. So, giving the child access to all those wonderful CHOICES alone is a good reason for math education.

Even a kid who is not aiming for a STEM career should aim to have math through pre-calculus in high school.

Mkath teaches a lot more than just doing math problems - critical thinking, logic, problem solving, which translate into other areas.

 

The math used in daily life is a lot more than just basic arithmetic. Percentages to calculate taxes, exponential function to understand compound interest and to be able to figure out whether refinancing a mortgage makes sense. Carpenters and sailors use trigonometry. Business owners have to deal with optimization problems. There are many uses of algebra.

 

Lastly: there are many things a person does not "need" to get by in daily life. Most people function OK without any knowledge in history, science, literature- a 4th grade education can suffice for the basics.

But for me, the goal is to give my children an education that helps them make sense of the world, that lets them understand how the world functions, why things are the way they are - and to achieve that, they need to know math, among many other things. Because it is one of the great achievements of the human intellect.

You can not tell what will be a "waste of time". Every bit of learning contributes to the total knowledge of a person. Especially for a child, you can not tell which path they will choose. My goal is to keep doors open and to give my kids choices - by helping them learn as much as they possibly can.

[Walking-Iris]

:iagree: They said it better and I would just be repeating it! But also think about this---how much math does an 8 year old even *need*. If we really think about it, maybe they can learn it when they need it---but that begs the question---will they be able to learn it when they need it?

 

I think we educate children when they are children because they are capable of learning it---and the more opportunities we give them, the mor echoices we give them as adults.

 

I know very little about K12---but if it's not something that is working for you---maybe think about changing the math curriculum. Which I think would mean quitting K12, right?

 

But also---I do very little math in my day to day life. Dealing with money and teaching my kids is the extent of it. But I've had to call on higher math skills at random times---fixing things around the house, building a sandbox or backyard hockey rink, playing Legos with the kids, cooking, even just understanding something I've read or heard with pleasure (pleasure because I could understand it).

[veggiegal]

Your post reminded me of a comment that came up in a book the boys and I read yesterday ('How Did Numbers Begin?' from the old 1970s Young Math series). The book posed a question that the boys and I paused over for quite a while: "Can you think of something--anything--you did today that was not in some way connected to math?"

 

We couldn't think of a thing. We got up and got dressed--in clothes I paid money for (math), that someone cut and sewed to the correct size (math). I cooked breakfast and gave everyone and equal share (math). We were reading a book with page numbers (my 9 year old's example). "What about going to the bathroom?" giggled the 6-year-old. "No math there!" After we stopped laughing, we thought about it: actually, the people who built our house and installed the toilets used math to do so, as did the folks who connected us up to the sewer/water lines for the city. "Can you imagine if they didn't have the right capacity pipes?" I asked the boys--to more giggling. I'm honestly still stumped trying to think of something I do in daily life that is wholly non-math related.

 

So yes, I hear your frustration with your particular curriculum and the math, and I agree that some things we learned as kids in school we ended up not using in our day-to-day adult life. But the problem is, as I see it, that with no way to predict the future, I cannot tell if my kid will need that particular knowledge/skill on a regular basis later. Got an arty kid who is not math inclined? Well, they may end up running their own business selling / commissioning their artwork and need math skills--even if they hire someone to "do their books", they'd need some math to ensure they aren't being taken advantage of. Or maybe my kid will work in construction, or engineering, or medicine, or even actuarial science (my 20-something cousin is doing this, in fact) where math is used all the time.

[Farrar]

:iagree: Well said, all you above commenters!

 

I actually think you *do* need pretty much everything in elementary math for all kinds of reasons. But even with math past that, some people use it regularly and others don't, but I wouldn't want to so severely limit a child's options in life by not teaching it.

[RachelFlores]

:iagree: Well said, all you above commenters!

 

I actually think you *do* need pretty much everything in elementary math for all kinds of reasons. But even with math past that, some people use it regularly and others don't, but I wouldn't want to so severely limit a child's options in life by not teaching it.

 

I totally agree. I cant think of an elementary math skill that I DON'T use. Basic computation, geometry, percentages/fractions, algebra, graphs, word problems all get used. Perhaps not daily, but often enough I am really glad I know how to do them. I don't use all the high school and college math I learned, but elementary math, all of it, is essential, imho.

[Mommy22alyns]

:iagree: Gotta go with the majority here. Just because the girls will have easy access to calculators as an adult doesn't mean I'm going to limit their math education.

[Ali in OR]

I heartily agree with the previous posters. However, in defense of the OP I can also agree that I have found things in my kids' math books that I think are better taught at a later age. And I used to teach high school math and have an engineering degree, so I am definitely not math-phobic. I know nothing about K12's program, but I know that Horizons math (which we use as a supplement mostly to keep reviewing previously learned topics) does introduce some concepts too early. I do not think a second grader needs to encounter algebraic equations, even simple ones. Her time is better spent elsewhere. If a child gets the concept, great. But this is a skill that is easily mastered in the logic stage and if attempted too early, before a child has reached that level of thinking, it can turn a child off from math. They may decide that math is too hard or that they are just not good at it, when there is really no reason that topic needs to be covered so early. At times, Horizons introduces math topics almost as magic tricks (i.e. cross products in 5th grade) before the child has really mastered the algebra to understand why it works or what is really going on. So yes, I agree that having a thorough math education is important but I also agree that some programs may be pushing concepts too early that would be much easier to understand (and much faster to teach) at an older age.

[GingerPoppy]

:iagree: Agree with the other posters, and with the fact that some concepts are taught too early developmentally, or pushed hard too early.

[Farrar]

Maybe the OP's question really should be, not what are the essentials for math in life, but what are the essentials for elementary math or math at this particular grade and age?

[FO4UR]

Maybe the OP's question really should be, not what are the essentials for math in life, but what are the essentials for elementary math or math at this particular grade and age?

:iagree:

 

 

I have no experience with K12, but I purposely focus K/1/2 math somewhat narrowly. I'd rather mine be very solid in the foundational skills/concepts, than have a shallow introduction to eleventy-billion details...in the younger years. Those eleventy-billion details hang so much better on the mental pegs once the basics are as natural as air.

[Crimson Wife]

One thing to keep in mind with a national program like K12 is that they aren't going to want to have to make 50 different versions of their math curriculum for compliance with 50 different state standards. So they have one curriculum stuffed with everything that's found on all the various state standards.

In your day-to-day life, you can't use the math you don't know.

[GingerPoppy]

:iagree:

 

 

I have no experience with K12, but I purposely focus K/1/2 math somewhat narrowly. I'd rather mine be very solid in the foundational skills/concepts, than have a shallow introduction to eleventy-billion details...in the younger years. Those eleventy-billion details hang so much better on the mental pegs once the basics are as natural as air.

 

Well put! :D

[chepyl]

An elementary student needs to be focusing on the foundations of math and critical thinking skills. Addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, fractions, percent, weights, and measures. They need to be able to read a word problem and create the correct mathematical sentence to solve the problem. They need to learn thebasic mathematical laws/rules. Basic geometry - shapes, area, perimeter. They need to be able to read charts, graphs, tables and manipulate the numbers to evaluate the data (mean, median, mode). How to deal with money - coins, bills, decimal. And use of clocks and measuring time.

 

In some way or another, I use all of those things on a daily or weekly basis.

 

I regularly use basic algebra and advanced geometry and trig. I am not in a math field, but math is a big part of my daily life.

 

If you are struggling with the curriculum, try something different. If I only teach my kids two things well, I wamt their reading amd math to be solid.

[Georgiana Daniels]

I agree with the PP's who said that you can't use math you don't know, and knowing more math opens up opportunities for later. You never know what fields your kids will choose that might need a strong math foundation.

 

As I tell my kids--everything is math! They try to challenge me by coming up with a topic that seemingly has nothing to do with math, and I tell them how math is part of said topic.

 

THAT SAID, the math I use most as an adult, and which I've seen other adults NOT know that they should know, is percentages. Basic consumer math. When I worked in retail, I can't count (haha, pun intended) the number of people who asked me, "How much is this?" when standing in front of a rack that said 25% off. Even if the item was $10, they couldn't calculate it.

 

I've told my kidlets SOOO many time, if you don't know how to count, people could be shortchanging you/ripping you off, and you'll never even know it.

[A home for their hearts]

I heartily agree with the previous posters. However, in defense of the OP I can also agree that I have found things in my kids' math books that I think are better taught at a later age. And I used to teach high school math and have an engineering degree, so I am definitely not math-phobic. I know nothing about K12's program, but I know that Horizons math (which we use as a supplement mostly to keep reviewing previously learned topics) does introduce some concepts too early. I do not think a second grader needs to encounter algebraic equations, even simple ones. Her time is better spent elsewhere. If a child gets the concept, great. But this is a skill that is easily mastered in the logic stage and if attempted too early, before a child has reached that level of thinking, it can turn a child off from math. They may decide that math is too hard or that they are just not good at it, when there is really no reason that topic needs to be covered so early. At times, Horizons introduces math topics almost as magic tricks (i.e. cross products in 5th grade) before the child has really mastered the algebra to understand why it works or what is really going on. So yes, I agree that having a thorough math education is important but I also agree that some programs may be pushing concepts too early that would be much easier to understand (and much faster to teach) at an older age.

 

:iagree:

 

I couldn't have said it better! I think higher level math concepts are being pushed way to early. This is the main problem I have with K12's math plus. It looks to me like they putting the cart before the horse.