Be aware...child predators might just be your friend....

[NittanyJen]

I think more than immediately slapping a "Potential Predator" label on every nice guy we meet, it's MORE important to teach our kids what behavior is appropriate and what ISN'T, how to protect themselves, how and why to tell, that they should trust their instincts and feelings.

 

There's no checklist for what a sexual predator looks like. He (or SHE) could be anyone. It's better to stay calm, exercise common sense (without crossing the line into paranoia), and empower our kids.

 

FWIW, I was molested as a child by a family member. I'm not naive about this issue.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I am a martial arts instructor and I teach self-defense. I third, fourth, and fifth the vote for Gavin deBecker's books. I also loved the "roots and wings" comment.

 

I always teach in my defense courses that rule #1 is to not overdramatize the threat in our minds. I have the class list the number of recent attacks in our town. Then we figure out the local population. I add in data from the online registered offender database (many of whom were forced on there for relatively minor things, such as an 18 year old having relations with his 17 YO girlfriend, consensually, and the parents got mad and got involved, not something that makes a male a "predator" or a danger to society for life, except that now we have made it hard for him to find a place to live or a job for the rest of his life). Once the numbers are in, we do the math and figure out what percentage of the population is actually a threat. It is generally pretty amazingly low. This does not diminish the pain of anyone who WAS victimized, but it puts things in perspective for those who fear being victimized.

 

I also teach my children that MOST strangers are not only not harmful, but will help a child in danger. That there are bad people (of all ages) in the world. That there are certain behaviors that are inappropriate in a grownup toward a child that just scream get away fast, and always tell the nearest adult they can find first, and tell Mom or Dad as soon as they can find us.

 

*A strange adult should not approach a child and ask them for help. Adults ask other adults for help.

 

*A known adult should not approach a child for help or conversation about an adult problem, such as finding lost property or animals, without asking Mom or Dad first. Mom or Dad will say its okay, not the other adult.

 

*An adult who is okay will never ask a child to go anywhere with them unless Mom or Dad has said it is okay. Mom or Dad will say so directly, not through this adult.

 

*An adult who is okay will tell you to go ask Mom or Dad when offering a job or asking you to enter their home.

 

*An adult who is okay will not tell you private things about themselves or ask you to keep secrets.

 

*An adult who is okay will never make you feel bad about yourself, or scared.

 

*An adult who is okay will never touch you if you say, "Stop" or "I don't like that."

 

*An adult who is okay will not "be your friend." Adults make friends with other adults, not with kids. Some adults are good listeners. Sometimes that can be a good thing. But if you are developing a special relationship with an adult like that, make sure your parents know about it and about how much time you spend with that person. Your parents should be welcome to drop in unannounced when you are with that person.

 

 

Hope that helps!

 

Jen

[Medieval Mom]

I am a martial arts instructor and I teach self-defense. I third, fourth, and fifth the vote for Gavin deBecker's books. I also loved the "roots and wings" comment

....

 

Hope that helps!

 

Jen

 

It does help!

 

Does anyone know of any appropriate book to read WITH children about this topic? In K we read Once Upon a Dragon: Stranger Safety for Kids (and Dragons). What else is there for older kids (say, 8+) or ANY age kids for that matter?

 

(DS tends take more seriously these conversations if there is a book telling him something, not just Mom.:tongue_smilie:)

Edited September 4, 2011 by Medieval Mom

[Guest submarines]

Has he been convicted? There have been cases when fathers were charged for having photographs of their naked children on their computers--like the cute bath photos? Those ones.

 

My youngest spent days with my old camera, and I uploaded hundreds of photographs without looking at them. Then I was showing some photos to a friend of mine, and there were dozens of photos of her brother--in his birthing suit, happily modeling super hero poses. Since she doesn't aim so well, many were just photos of his torso and genitals. *This* is enough to charge me with possession of child pornography. I'm not kidding. I made sure I erased them, from everywhere, but for all I know they are somewhere on my hard drive.

 

Breastfeeding photos. Home birth photos. Bath photos. Naked siblings running in a sprinkler. There have been cases when parents were charged with posession for those as well.

 

Media might be happy to exagerrate, especially in a small affluent town where not much is probably happening.

 

There's a big difference between being charged and actually convicted. There could be more to the story.

 

Not that we shouldn't be aware, and Protecting the Gift is a must, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions, especially on such serious matters.

Edited September 4, 2011 by sunflowers

[Sahamamama]

I think it is always wise to be cautious -- even overly cautious -- when it comes to with whom you trust your children. Just because a person attends your church, or your playgroup, or is your doctor or your pastor or your teacher, does not mean they are above reproach or caution.

 

There is no way you can "tell" it's a predator by his/her looks or public actions. Predators lurk in myriad disguises. Most of them look, and even act, quite trustworthy. That's what makes the disguise so good. Gut instincts should always be followed, IMO, but they are NOT enough. The most successful predators are most often people you would NEVER suspect and from whom you would NEVER get a bad vibe.

 

I would rather trust no one alone with my child than to take a chance of trusting the wrong one alone with him.

 

 

:iagree: In some contexts, it feels counter-cultural to believe this, to live this. My husband and I were AMAZED at how easily so many people dropped off their children this summer at the two VBS camps we attended, without even knowing anyone there. Who was in charge? Who was the teacher? Were the workers screened? Don't know, don't (seem to) care. :001_huh: I was a nervous wreck, I suppose, but we were odd-man-out, to sit around and want to check on our children. But, no, I am not going to drop them off with total strangers, in a completely strange place, at ages 6.5 and 4.5 (twins), and not check on them at least once.

 

We recently began attending a different local church. After we'd been there about a month, the pastor asked my husband if we ever have a babysitter to watch the girls. My husband said, "No, not very often, and when we do, it's always my mother-in-law." So the pastor said that he and his wife (they have no children) would be happy to take the girls for a day, so we could have time for a date. When my husband told me this, it was like flashing red lights went off in my brain. Am I being paranoid? There are only 2-3 other children in this church. I'm not happy about any of it.

 

Sigh. How do you explain your "instincts?"

 

Whether or not I can explain it -- and I am NOT saying the pastor and his wife are pedophiles, just that I don't KNOW them -- there is NO way I will release my three daughters to these people.

 

If the pastor were to ask us, "Don't you trust us?" I would even be so bold as to come out and say, "No, I don't, not with my children."

 

No, I really don't. :001_huh:

 

Actually, now that I think about this, it's kind of pathetic, isn't it?

 

If you attend church/similar, do you trust your pastor? Implicitly? With your child's life? :bigear:

[Margo out of lurking]

..

[NittanyJen]

:iagree: In some contexts, it feels counter-cultural to believe this, to live this. My husband and I were AMAZED at how easily so many people dropped off their children this summer at the two VBS camps we attended, without even knowing anyone there. Who was in charge? Who was the teacher? Were the workers screened? Don't know, don't (seem to) care. :001_huh: I was a nervous wreck, I suppose, but we were odd-man-out, to sit around and want to check on our children. But, no, I am not going to drop them off with total strangers, in a completely strange place, at ages 6.5 and 4.5 (twins), and not check on them at least once.

 

We recently began attending a different local church. After we'd been there about a month, the pastor asked my husband if we ever have a babysitter to watch the girls. My husband said, "No, not very often, and when we do, it's always my mother-in-law." So the pastor said that he and his wife (they have no children) would be happy to take the girls for a day, so we could have time for a date. When my husband told me this, it was like flashing red lights went off in my brain. Am I being paranoid? There are only 2-3 other children in this church. I'm not happy about any of it.

 

Sigh. How do you explain your "instincts?"

 

Whether or not I can explain it -- and I am NOT saying the pastor and his wife are pedophiles, just that I don't KNOW them -- there is NO way I will release my three daughters to these people.

 

If the pastor were to ask us, "Don't you trust us?" I would even be so bold as to come out and say, "No, I don't, not with my children."

 

No, I really don't. :001_huh:

 

Actually, now that I think about this, it's kind of pathetic, isn't it?

 

If you attend church/similar, do you trust your pastor? Implicitly? With your child's life? :bigear:

 

 

In our church, it is a requirement that anyone who works with children, in any capacity whatsoever (Sunday school, VBS, pastor, lay leader, confirmation mentor, chaperone a field trip for youth group, ANYTHING) must have a police background check performed. Nobody drives kids without the background check including a driving record. Prior background checks for "other purposes" such as a job, foster care, or any other reasons do not count; a fresh one is conducted for youth contact within the church. Additionally, two unrelated adults must work together when working with youth.

 

It should be very easy, when signing your kids up for a VBS, Sunday School, youth camp, or any other function, to ask to see a copy of their Safe Sanctuary policy, and ask a lay leader or parent in the church, rather than the pastor, how it is actually implemented. That should tell you what you need to know.

 

Jen

[I.Dup.]

Something similiar happened in our community, the high school basketball coach in the upper middle class "preppy" school was actually raping boys.

[Meriwether]

Actually, now that I think about this, it's kind of pathetic, isn't it?

 

If you attend church/similar, do you trust your pastor? Implicitly? With your child's life? :bigear:

 

 

If it is pathetic, I'm right there with you. I won't leave my children with anyone I haven't known for *at least* two years. We've never lived more than 3 1/2 years at any one place with our children so we usually don't leave our children. The only exception to this was when I had Ds4 very soon after moving and a neighbor spent the night with the older two. I was anxious about that but I wanted Dh to be there for the birth. I have left my kids with non-family members 5 times in 8 years. One of those times was a date. The other times were necessary. The kids have also been watched by my Ils (once), my parents (a couple of times), my brother and his wife (once), and my SIL (twice, during one of these times she watched my boys for a week).

 

If I lived close to my parents, my sister, or one of my SIL's I would leave them more often. Other than that, I don't care to leave them.

[radiobrain]

Predators are just that, PREDATORS. They sculpt their whole lives around their ability to find prey.

 

It is very important for them to be in a position of trust. That is the only way they can manipulate everyone into getting what they want. They also will only target those that they know they can. If you are an attentive parent, your kid will probably not be high on their list. If you have taught your kids some basic things, your kid will be lower on the list. These people do not want to get caught. They are patient, and usually highly intelligent (or they would already be caught). They usually target the kid, then work on the parents.

 

That being said, as my family has direct knowledge of this sort of person, I do not think every man involved with kids is a predator, and I would give this dad a bit of slack until he is convicted. The fact that it is just with his family either leads me into to two general patterns of thinking.... the charges are bogus (do you know how many fathers are falsely accused of child p*rn or molesting their own kids by their wives and friends in a dispute? it happens all the time) or he is guilty, but it was only with his family, so no one else's kids were ever "in danger".

 

If the predator is good, he has never been caught, will pass a background check, and your gut radar will not go off.

 

Just teach your kids what is unacceptable for an adult to say or do, to always go to you if something doesn't seem right (and that you WILL NOT be upset with them), and to not allow repeated unsupervised individual contact with anyone.

 

Our "predator" targeted my brothers. He was a boy scout troop leader, the middle school science teacher at our oofty snooty private school, rented an apartment from my parents above our apartment, built my dad a harpsichord, and my parents never once thought twice. Why should they have (especially in the '70s)?

 

Anyway, I don't know what I am rambling about.

[shinyhappypeople]

I think people are talking about two different things here.

 

1. When people are talking about teaching kids to protect themselves from sexual predators, they are generally talking about building up kids' sense that they have a right to define who touches them and how--which includes whether or not to kiss grandma. Kids who have this innate sense of their own right to reinforce their boundaries are less likely to be targets. And kids can protect themselves--many do. I did. My mother protected me as well. But once I was at my grandmother's and there was a visitor I didn't like...My grandmother's was a safe place, generally. I would have hated to miss all the magic of childhood I had at my grandmother's because my mother wouldn't let me go without her! (It wouldn't have been the same!) Sometimes a parents' best efforts can fail. Best not to have an unprepared kid.

 

 

This is exactly what I was getting at. I'm not saying parents should just shrug their shoulders and not pay attention. But, at some point, I've had to realize that I can't perfectly control my kids' worlds. I will make mistakes. I may trust the wrong people with my kids. In the end, my girls MUST have the street smarts to trust their own feelings, speak up and know how to get help.

 

As for profiles, the people who molested me did NOT fit the profile. So, I take descriptions of the "average" child molester with a grain of salt. That profile seems to describe one type of predator (a pedophile). Not all people who molest children are pedophiles. I know it seems weird, but it's true.

[kalanamak]

I live in a suburb and our town has about 50,000 people. We are a middle to upper class town. We have a lot of home school families here and it is a good community. I found out the other day that a man that I know and have worked with in our homeschool group was arrested on producing child porn and distributing over state lines.

 

 

I know someone who remarried when her 5 kids were either grown or mid-teens. Marriage went along for quite some time, but when eldest daughter's kids got to be 4-5, this husband got touchy about them visiting. To the point of rude. My friend was very unhappy her grandkids couldn't visit without there being a fight after they went home. It put a damper on their relationship, but they were in their 60s and she didn't want to leave him for that.

 

After 2 years of this bad attitude, the police raided and grabbed the computers. He was an online little-girl p*rn addict, not a producer but a consumer. He's in jail, they are divorced, there is no evidence he ever laid a hand on the girls, and one wonders if he just didn't want them in the house for fear someone would accuse him and look at his computer, or whether he was afraid of his own desires. Creepy either way.

[Janie Grace]

As for profiles, the people who molested me did NOT fit the profile. So, I take descriptions of the "average" child molester with a grain of salt. That profile seems to describe one type of predator (a pedophile). Not all people who molest children are pedophiles. I know it seems weird, but it's true.

 

Could you explain this sentence? I don't understand; I think I assumed they were synonymous. If you don't want to, that's fine. I'm sorry you have this as part of your personal history. :(

[shinyhappypeople]

Could you explain this sentence? I don't understand; I think I assumed they were synonymous. If you don't want to, that's fine. I'm sorry you have this as part of your personal history. :(

 

A pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to children.

I think every child molester is broken and mentally screwed up. But not every molester is a true pedophile. People molest for other reasons, too. Kind of like rape isn't about sex but power. Does that make sense?

 

Let me give an example: One of my experiences (the most mild) was an adult friend of the family exposing himself to me when I was 9 or 10. (where's the pukey face smilie when I need it? :tongue_smilie:) Knowing this person, I'm almost certain that his goal was to shock me, embarrass me and psychologically hurt me.

 

I don't think he was attracted to me sexually, he was attracted to the fact that I was vulnerable and he could exert this power over me. Does that make any sense at all? It's kind of hard to articulate.

 

I'm not an expert in what makes child molesters do what they do. These are just my own observations from my experiences and from talking with others.

[twoforjoy]

Could you explain this sentence? I don't understand; I think I assumed they were synonymous. If you don't want to, that's fine. I'm sorry you have this as part of your personal history. :(

 

A pedophile is a person who is sexually attracted (often exclusively) to prepubescent children. Most true pedophiles cannot have a sexual relationship with a post-pubescent female (assuming they're a straight male).

 

So when you have married men molesting children, many times it's not about sexual attraction; it's about power. These men aren't seeking sexual gratification from the molestation. They are seeking to exert power over another person, and it's a lot easier, most of the time, to do that with children.

 

I think the rape example above is a good one. Most rapists don't look at a woman and go, "I'm really sexually attracted to her. I'm going to rape her." That's not what the rape is about. It's about exerting power over another person, and that's the thing that turns them on. I think for many child molesters, it's not the fact that the victim is a child that turns them on (as would be the case for a pedophile), but the fact that they are able to exert that kind of power over another human being.

[Janie Grace]

A pedophile is a person who is sexually attracted (often exclusively) to prepubescent children. Most true pedophiles cannot have a sexual relationship with a post-pubescent female (assuming they're a straight male).

 

So when you have married men molesting children, many times it's not about sexual attraction; it's about power. These men aren't seeking sexual gratification from the molestation. They are seeking to exert power over another person, and it's a lot easier, most of the time, to do that with children.

 

I think the rape example above is a good one. Most rapists don't look at a woman and go, "I'm really sexually attracted to her. I'm going to rape her." That's not what the rape is about. It's about exerting power over another person, and that's the thing that turns them on. I think for many child molesters, it's not the fact that the victim is a child that turns them on (as would be the case for a pedophile), but the fact that they are able to exert that kind of power over another human being.

 

Okay, that makes sense, I guess, in a sad, sick way. I have never heard that or thought about the psyche of a child molester. I hate how twisted and sick this world is.

[Janie Grace]

A pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to children.

I think every child molester is broken and mentally screwed up. But not every molester is a true pedophile. People molest for other reasons, too. Kind of like rape isn't about sex but power. Does that make sense?

 

Let me give an example: One of my experiences (the most mild) was an adult friend of the family exposing himself to me when I was 9 or 10. (where's the pukey face smilie when I need it? :tongue_smilie:) Knowing this person, I'm almost certain that his goal was to shock me, embarrass me and psychologically hurt me.

 

I don't think he was attracted to me sexually, he was attracted to the fact that I was vulnerable and he could exert this power over me. Does that make any sense at all? It's kind of hard to articulate.

 

I'm not an expert in what makes child molesters do what they do. These are just my own observations from my experiences and from talking with others.

 

 

Yes, that makes sense. YUCK, but thanks for explaining. And again, I'm sorry. :grouphug:

[Karie]

No, this man has not been convicted, yet....

 

Sexually explicit pictures and videos of his victims were found...all victims have been identified and are in a safe place. This is not an instance of a man taking a photo of his kid in the bathtub. They were very sexual in nature and he made videos of them...then sold them across state lines via the internet.

[Based on Faith Academy]

Im so glad they caught him!!

 

This is why my kids never spend the night anywhere else but with my ex or my parents.

[imagine.more]

:iagree: In some contexts, it feels counter-cultural to believe this, to live this. My husband and I were AMAZED at how easily so many people dropped off their children this summer at the two VBS camps we attended, without even knowing anyone there. Who was in charge? Who was the teacher? Were the workers screened? Don't know, don't (seem to) care. :001_huh: I was a nervous wreck, I suppose, but we were odd-man-out, to sit around and want to check on our children. But, no, I am not going to drop them off with total strangers, in a completely strange place, at ages 6.5 and 4.5 (twins), and not check on them at least once.

 

We recently began attending a different local church. After we'd been there about a month, the pastor asked my husband if we ever have a babysitter to watch the girls. My husband said, "No, not very often, and when we do, it's always my mother-in-law." So the pastor said that he and his wife (they have no children) would be happy to take the girls for a day, so we could have time for a date. When my husband told me this, it was like flashing red lights went off in my brain. Am I being paranoid? There are only 2-3 other children in this church. I'm not happy about any of it.

 

Sigh. How do you explain your "instincts?"

 

Whether or not I can explain it -- and I am NOT saying the pastor and his wife are pedophiles, just that I don't KNOW them -- there is NO way I will release my three daughters to these people.

 

If the pastor were to ask us, "Don't you trust us?" I would even be so bold as to come out and say, "No, I don't, not with my children."

 

No, I really don't. :001_huh:

 

Actually, now that I think about this, it's kind of pathetic, isn't it?

 

If you attend church/similar, do you trust your pastor? Implicitly? With your child's life? :bigear:

 

Luckily my husband is the pastor around here :) lol! But ITA with you on the weirdness of the pastor offering to watch the kids so quickly. If you'd been lamenting finding a babysitter last minute for a particular event and he offered I wouldn't think anything of it, but the way he offered I wouldn't take him up on it. Not saying he is at all, it's most likely he's not, but better to be cautious. Pastors are people too, and not all churches even require the extensive psychological testing for ordination that the bigger denominations do. I figure no "type" of person is exempt from sin, even the sins we find most abhorrent like child abuse. And yes about the VBS! We had so many parents drop their kids off without even having met any of the workers! And in this small, rural area there is no background check done or anything, it's just whoever volunteers. I'm not even super-protective, we regularly use a babysitter, but I wouldn't drop off a 3 year old for VBS at a church I'd never attended!

 

This is a sad story :( I'm glad to see these resources and tips though, it actually has helped me a lot in thinking through how I'll be going about protecting my kids so thank you to everyone who has responded with advice and personal experience.