9th grader who does not like history

[lakotajm]

How can I get my dd14 more excited about history? She feels it is boring and irrelevant. She usually groans when I assign her anything in the subject. I have tried mixing it up with audio, maps, biographies, etc. Am I doomed to have a kid who hates my favorite subject or does anyone out there have any ideas that worked for their kids?

Lakota

[Rosie_0801]

Maybe go for social history, or history of specific places, institutions (like cities) or items (I saw a great book on the history of underwear once, but you wouldn't want to put that on a transcript, huh?)

 

:)

Rosie

[Candid]

What does she like?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

How can I get my dd14 more excited about history? She feels it is boring and irrelevant. She usually groans when I assign her anything in the subject. I have tried mixing it up with audio, maps, biographies, etc. Am I doomed to have a kid who hates my favorite subject or does anyone out there have any ideas that worked for their kids?

Lakota

 

Why do you like history? I find it interesting, because it is the story of people, some in times like mine, some in times very different from mine. But I find the more I can read of the details of history, the more interesting it is to me.

 

Just as an example, World War II can be a dry recounting of treaties broken, international diplomacy failed, the movement of armies and the slaughter of millions. Or it can be thousands of stories of challenge, courage, fear, terror and survival.

 

As an example, here is the history of USS San Francisco (CA-38). Read the section on the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. It is factual, but pretty dry. On the other hand, here is a portion of the citation from the medal of honor USS San Francisco's engineering officer received.

 

In the same violent night engagement in which all of his superior officers were killed or wounded, Lieutenant Commander Schonland was fighting valiantly to free the San Francisco of large quantities of water flooding the second deck compartments through numerous shell holes caused by enemy fire. Upon being informed that he was commanding officer, he ascertained that the conning of the ship was being efficiently handled, then directed the officer who had taken over that task to continue while he himself resumed the vitally important work of maintaining the stability of the ship. In water waist deep, he carried on his efforts in darkness illuminated only by hand lanterns until water in flooded compartments had been drained or pumped off and watertight integrity had again been restored to the San Francisco.

 

[NB: In choosing to continue working the damage control problem, Schonland probably knew that he could be risking court martial for NOT going to the bridge to fight the ship. I imagine he figured if they were lost at sea, they couldn't court martial him.]

 

This is the sort of story that I try to show my kids, to help them realize that history isn't just movements of giant armies and of faceless govenments, but that it is what happened to real people and how well or poorly the responded. History at our house has a bit of the flavor of a tabloid magazine to it.

 

On one hand, I give my kids lots of exposure to what I think reveals the pagent of history. On the other hand, I don't really care if they love everything they do in school.

 

To quote an essay from Flannery O'Connor that I was reading today (from "Total Effect and the Eighth Grade" in Mystery and Manners:

"And if the student finds that this is not to his taste? Well, that is regrettable. Most regrettable. His taste should not be consulted; it is being formed."

 

I will take what steps I can to bring history to life. But that it is being held as boring by one of my kids will not take the subject off the table.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Historical fiction movies and fact based documentaries might be a good springboard to studying history.

 

Last year one of my dd's profs in college had several assignments where the student had to watch a movie and then research the facts and then write a short paper about how the movie portrayed the actual facts.

[Skadi]

How about having her read The Young Royals series?

 

When I was 13, it was historical fiction that really introduced me to a love of history. Of course, in my case, it was because I picked up my aunt's Harlequin novels...

[Trilliums]

I'd try to gently tie it into her interests. History of Taekwondo maybe?

 

But, in general, I find whenever I pressure my kids TOO much, it backfires on me. Sometimes they need to find it for themselves.

GOOD LUCK

[PeterPan]

Well as an avowed history-hater, I can toss you out a few pieces of advice. One, stop trying to make her like it. Some people just don't. Two, textbooks can be really good for this, honest. They work because they give the learner concrete expectations. And that brings us to point three. History people like the narratives of history, the rabbit trails, the details. Some thinkers are more big picture and need a timeline, a list, a way to wrap their brains around it. Think engineers, flowcharts. I'm a fairly intelligent person, but somehow in all the years I did history they failed to mention that things OVERLAPPED! Literally, for me, history seemed this never-ending list of DETAILS. You really have to make it more contained, outlined, scientific, something the child can wrap his brain around. The VP history cards for instance do this incredibly well. The Cengage lectures for US history, with their powerpoint presentation and clear outlines, are another great method. It gives them a way to wrap their brain around something too vast and quantify it.

 

Now that I've said that you shouldn't try to make them like it, I will say that there IS a way to get them to like history (besides making it something they can wrap their brains around) but you might not like it. The ONLY history I've ever liked was Russian history. And I didn't do it a traditional way either. I was learning russian, got interested in a couple nasty dudes, read some even nastier fiction about them (including the sequels) and then started reading adult level biographies and comparative biographies about the nasty dudes. That works. Concrete, something I'm already interested in, and then using THAT as a peg to hang anything else you really want to cover. I mean think about it, couldn't you end up inadvertently covering a lot of american history while studying russian history if you thought about it enough? Sure. And couldn't there be something else she likes, ANYTHING, that happens to have a history to it, where you HAPPEN to loosen up, let her read about it and follow the rabbit trails, and call that history?

 

Think about it a different way. The non-history-lover may retain exceedingly little. So would you rather they retain a good percentage of what they read about because they were even slightly interested in it, or would you rather be adamant that it has to be a certain time period done a certain way (a la TOG, whatever) and have them retain even less?

 

Another way to do it and have it work for the non-history lover? I happen to like music. A lot. I can tell you a lot of american history that connects to the music I've studied. So you do Discovering Music and just happen to get some history books to flesh out the time periods for the music. You don't say you're doing history. You're not--you're doing MUSIC. History gets dropped as a subject. You just add in enough history work that you're able to give the unit on the transcript. ;)

 

For your transcript, a unit is defined by time spent, not material covered. Gives you more flexibility. But I understand if you can't find something she likes as a vehicle. I don't know that I knew myself well enough as a freshman to do that either. It was more like 16-18+. Textbooks can be fine, honest. This whole loving history thing is over-rated. Quantify it, put it in flowcharts, get it over with.

 

PS. Want the great irony? My dd LOVES history. So I'm stuck spending all day catering to her, when my big thing would be languages, which she, as a dyslexic, utterly struggles with. Go figure. :)

[choirfarm]

How can I get my dd14 more excited about history? She feels it is boring and irrelevant. She usually groans when I assign her anything in the subject. I have tried mixing it up with audio, maps, biographies, etc. Am I doomed to have a kid who hates my favorite subject or does anyone out there have any ideas that worked for their kids?

Lakota

 

How are you doing it now??? That is our favorite subject around here. We immerse ourselves in it: When they were younger, we read historical fiction, great interesting nonfiction books, went places whenever we could, watched tons of documentaries and historical movies. Even my math/science guy likes history. But I HATE textbooks. This is the first year they have had a textbook for history. (They are in 9th and 11th grades.) My 9th grader is having a harder time with it. ( AP Government) Now I went and bought him 15 used hardbacks: some by Obama, one by Ann Coulter, one by that liberal guy that is married to the conservative James..somebody..can't remember, one about how the conservative right is ruining America, one about how the liberals are ruiing America.. ( I wanted him to see both sides and make up his mind where he stands.) He's already read 2 or 3 of them. He is devouring them. He just can't stand the textbook.. He'll have to learn, though.

 

Anyway, we love to actually visit places. When they were younger we went to Gettysburg, Bull Run, Philadelphia, etc. We would go to living history presentations of whatever we had a chance. History is FUN!!!! FUN!!! I constantly have to take away his history books whenever he is supposed to be doing math.

 

Christine

[lakotajm]

What does she like?

She is into art, music and making videos. She is a huge Beatles fan. She has her own YouTube channel for her videos (cyphinniganlennon for anyone who is interested;)).

 

She's also into martial arts.

[lakotajm]

How about having her read The Young Royals series?

 

When I was 13, it was historical fiction that really introduced me to a love of history. Of course, in my case, it was because I picked up my aunt's Harlequin novels...

 

She groans at my love for historical fiction books!

The only one she remotely liked was the Golden Goblet.

But I will keep reading them at times or assigning her to read them. I assigned Johnny Tremain and it took her forever to get to Chapter two, then she stopped when she said it got too depressing. I thought she might like autobiographies or biographies better. Only remotely so. She tolerated a biography of Jefferson. She did like Catherine Called Birdy.

[lakotajm]

Two, textbooks can be really good for this, honest. They work because they give the learner concrete expectations. And that brings us to point three. History people like the narratives of history, the rabbit trails, the details. Some thinkers are more big picture and need a timeline, a list, a way to wrap their brains around it. Think engineers, flowcharts. I'm a fairly intelligent person, but somehow in all the years I did history they failed to mention that things OVERLAPPED! Literally, for me, history seemed this never-ending list of DETAILS. You really have to make it more contained, outlined, scientific, something the child can wrap his brain around. The VP history cards for instance do this incredibly well. The Cengage lectures for US history, with their powerpoint presentation and clear outlines, are another great method. It gives them a way to wrap their brain around something too vast and quantify it.

 

 

Concrete, something I'm already interested in, and then using THAT as a peg to hang anything else you really want to cover.

couldn't there be something else she likes, ANYTHING, that happens to have a history to it, where you HAPPEN to loosen up, let her read about it and follow the rabbit trails, and call that history.

 

 

For your transcript, a unit is defined by time spent, not material covered. Gives you more flexibility. But I understand if you can't find something she likes as a vehicle. I don't know that I knew myself well enough as a freshman to do that either. It was more like 16-18+. Textbooks can be fine, honest. This whole loving history thing is over-rated. Quantify it, put it in flowcharts, get it over with.

 

PS. Want the great irony? My dd LOVES history. So I'm stuck spending all day catering to her, when my big thing would be languages, which she, as a dyslexic, utterly struggles with. Go figure. :)

Your response tickled me. I think my daughter is very analytical and you may have her pegged. Maybe she could benefit from the ideas you mention. But she also loves an interesting story. She asks me "When we we ever learn about anyone interesting?" I thought all these people and events were interesting, but she did not.

 

Funny you mentioned the dyslexic kid and your love of languages. My two oldest are math freaks and I am so befuddled by math that it makes me cry-there is no way I can help dd14 with her Algebra. And as much as I love SWB, bless her heart, I am NOT.EVER going to learn Algebra.

 

Lakota

[lakotajm]

How are you doing it now??? That is our favorite subject around here. We immerse ourselves in it: When they were younger, we read historical fiction, great interesting nonfiction books, went places whenever we could, watched tons of documentaries and historical movies. Even my math/science guy likes history. But I HATE textbooks. This is the first year they have had a textbook for history. (They are in 9th and 11th grades.) My 9th grader is having a harder time with it. ( AP Government) Now I went and bought him 15 used hardbacks: some by Obama, one by Ann Coulter, one by that liberal guy that is married to the conservative James..somebody..can't remember, one about how the conservative right is ruining America, one about how the liberals are ruiing America.. ( I wanted him to see both sides and make up his mind where he stands.) He's already read 2 or 3 of them. He is devouring them. He just can't stand the textbook.. He'll have to learn, though.

 

Anyway, we love to actually visit places. When they were younger we went to Gettysburg, Bull Run, Philadelphia, etc. We would go to living history presentations of whatever we had a chance. History is FUN!!!! FUN!!! I constantly have to take away his history books whenever he is supposed to be doing math.

 

Christine

We rarely use textbooks-I use them as a supplement at times. I often use SOTW, hisotrical fiction, interesting non-fiction sources, movies and try to do a few field trips. But we are just now getting to the point in history where stuff happens in our state beyond Indians. We cannot afford to travel out of state. We did visit our state's original capitol-St. Charles. She liked that. We'll do some more of that this year now that we are getting close to Civil War in our studies.

 

Lakota

[elegantlion]

Have you considered covering the history of film and music? How about history through Art, you could use something like The Creators by Boorstin.

 

This Art history book was also recommended, Art History by Stokstad.

 

Just as an aside, I have a niece who was very into the Beatles. Her dad ended up taking her to England to visit all the Beatles locations when she was a teen. She ended up working in film restoration in England for a few years after college. She's just coming back to the states. It's been very cool to see her live out her individual passions.

[Candid]

She is into art, music and making videos. She is a huge Beatles fan. She has her own YouTube channel for her videos (cyphinniganlennon for anyone who is interested;)).

 

She's also into martial arts.

 

Okay, so one thing I'd put more in focus is the history as it relates to art. Not just the style of art in different times but also how art can be used as a political/social tool by artists.

 

And can she make videos of historical bits, act things out, etc? I can still remember with fondness the slide show I made of The Trojan War. I made it at a neighborhood picnic with no costumes, etc. One detail I still remember is when Achilles gives his armor to Patroclus, the fellow who was Achilles had a red buffalo plaid jacket on and we used that for the armor. Heck you could use lego figures or those online animations. And find contemporary music that suits whatever she is studying.

[PeterPan]

I suggest you use this http://www.amazon.com/Visual-History-Twentieth-Century/dp/1858686881/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1314803636&sr=1-1

 

and

http://www.tcm.com/moguls/

 

and find movies and documentaries on the history of music, lives of famous musicians, etc. I've watched some very good movies (just straight movies) on the lives of people like Jolson, Stephen Foster, etc.

 

It's absolutely possible for her to access history via music. What you're doing is taking the things she enjoys and helping her create CONTEXT. The Beatles didn't happen in a vacuum. They had a context, and she can read about that. All those broadway musicals had a historical context, an issue they were discussing that was relevant at the time. Look at the music of the roaring 20s. Why was it that way? Look at the black musicians who were popular during segregation and ask how that could happen that you'd be willing to LISTEN to their music but not share a fountain with them?

 

Johnny Tremain isn't going to interest her. If something like that is necessary, do it as an audiobook on a trip and move on. But these issues of context that connect to topics she finds interesting, that will be something she remembers. And for pity's sake get the girl a spine, a text, SOMETHING. She needs a set of pegs, a way to organize everything. I've wanted, and haven't gotten yet or even seen, a super duper timeline that would show lots of levels at once. You'd have lines for political, cultural, american, world (european), asian, and technological histories. All that matters is that she study SOMETHING from a given spot on that timeline and see that it fit in a CONTEXT. But does it really matter if she memorizes generals? Of course not. It could have been composers just as well. They all have a context.

 

Ok, another thing I like, that fits in with her personalities thing, is people who made decisions that changed the world. I actually haven't figured out how you find this kind of stuff. I think there are probably videos and series on it if you search hard enough. For instance did you know that in Ohio there was ONE MAN, just one man, who stemmed the tide in the legislature and made Ohio go FREE instead of being a slave state? Yup ONE MAN. They have a statue of him in his home town. That's pretty compelling, and that sort of radical work, where one man stood up, made the hard decision and did right and changed history, that would interest her. One woman changing history might interest her even more. ;)

 

Are you trying to keep everybody together for history? Might be easier if you give her a bit of structure, the output requirements, and then let her alone. For instance maybe the assignment is read 4 pages out of that visual encyclopedia, follow up on 3 of the people and create context pages, read a biography about one of them, and watch a movie that connects. She has to find the stuff, and the only thing you're checking is that she has the output.

Edited August 31, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[Carol in Cal.]

So my feeling is, historical fiction is to cement learning in by making it engaging and pleasurable, and by creating mental pictures of a setting. So, if it is not accomplishing this, I pitch it. Next!

 

I love learning history using fiction, but not everyone does. If not, there is no reason to get bogged down with it. Read a spine, do the analysis, map the timeline, write a paper now and then, and move on. Not everyone will love history, and that's OK. Barely.