Interesting article - Wake Forest and Smith no longer require SAT/ACT

[readwithem]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/27/education/27sat.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

 

Starting fall of 2009.

[mcconnellboys]

Thanks! I had heard several years ago that more and more schools were going to move toward this. Very interesting,

[LisaNY]

Thanks for sharing that article.

 

*This* should be the deciding factor for students applying to college:

 

While students will still have the option of submitting standardized test scores — and in fact, the majority of applicants still do so at many test-optional colleges — the most important criteria for admission will be high school curriculum and classroom performance, writing ability, extracurricular activities and evidence of character and talent.

 

ETA: My older dd has been in ps for the past 2 years. She scored an 1810 on the SAT. Certainly not stellar by WTM standards, but still pretty decent. She has consistently pulled scores in the high 90's and has a 100 average in her math class this semester. She is a member of both the National and Foreign Language Honor Societies. It is a shame to think that her SAT scores would cast a shadow on the review of her as a potential college student.

[Laura K (NC)]

I have a friend whose son applied to Wake Forest. There was some interesting questions on there in addition to one longer essay. I think the SAT essay is worthless as a measure of college ability. A college student should never be in the position of answering a timed essay question for which he has not prepared. It is far better for the college to choose its own essay question, seeing what each applicant can bring to the same question after that applicant has determined for himself that the answer is good enough. The talent of the student will shine much better in an untimed essay on a reasonable topic than in a timed one that makes no sense. Most of those SAT essay questions I've seen are just dumb!!

 

I'm sure the issue with most universities is that teachers of different high schools have wildly different standards, so there has to be some kind of universal test to compare them. A student who applies to Wake Forest has already undergone standardized testing via AP courses and perhaps SAT subject tests, most likely, that test on content that has actually been studied.

[Chris in VA]

Do you think they look for those "heavily resume'd" kids? Do you think they count extracurriculars and "leadership" really, really heavily?

Sigh. I hope ds has a chance. He has only done youth group(including 5 mission trips) for 4 years, historical swords for two, and he may work next year for a few hours.

[Jane in NC]

Thanks for posting this. The article prompted me to take a look at WFU's admissions page. Here is the SAT/ACT FAQ.

 

I have noted that while some schools do not require SAT/ACTs for admission, they require a test score for financial aid. This appears not to be the case with Wake. Note that athletes are still required to take either the SAT or ACT with writing to satisfy the NCAA.

 

Jane

[Brenda in MA]

Do you think they look for those "heavily resume'd" kids? Do you think they count extracurriculars and "leadership" really, really heavily?

Chris,

 

From what I've read, they are looking for long-term involvement in a few activities over a huge list of things that may have only been done a few times. They're trying to figure out how each teen will contribute to their campus environment. Youth group is a great activity to show commitment. If the group has any kind of "offices" or leadership roles, you might encourage him to seek those out. If he does any mentoring of younger teens in the group, he might highlight that as well when he writes his essays.

 

Any other volunteering he does on an ongoing basis would also help the colleges to see him as someone who cares deeply about certain issues and works to make a difference. Every college wants some of this type of teen on its campus.

 

Brenda

[elegantlion]

Great article! I love what LisaNY commented on as well. If this is a future trend, homeschoolers may gain an advantage over those in a traditional school setting. I see that they are looking for well-rounded individuals, not just those that can take a test.

[readwithem]

Do you think they look for those "heavily resume'd" kids? Do you think they count extracurriculars and "leadership" really, really heavily?

Sigh. I hope ds has a chance. He has only done youth group(including 5 mission trips) for 4 years, historical swords for two, and he may work next year for a few hours.

 

Agreeing with Brenda that they are looking for long term commitment to a few things. Historical swords sounds REALLY cool plus his youth group things would count as community service.

 

It seems like they want to hear your "passion" in your essays, etc. We went to the open house thing that Harvard, Duke, Georgetown, Stanford and Penn did here just to get ideas (my dd just finished sophomore year) and one rep said she wants to be able to sit in her living room with the student's file and feel like she can get an idea of the "real you". Hope that makes sense. I think your ds could talk (either in his essay or in an interview) enthusiastically about either the swords or his mission trips - you might need to help him see how that would be interesting to a college but that's where your job as his guidance counselor comes into play :)

[Gwen in VA]

What several admissions counselors stressed at various open houses that we attended was, despite rumors to the contrary, that they are NOT looking for the ultimate well-rounded student!

 

Colleges want the ultimate well-rounded student body, which will be made up of star tennis players, excellent oboe players, charismatic student government leaders, geeky scientist types, budding playwrights, passionate political junkies, etc.

 

So don't try to force-fit your child into the "well-rounded" mold; instead, let your child pursue and develop his singular interests and passions. Letting him develop his skills and passions will be good for him no matter what happens in the admissions process, and is likely to cause a college to say, "We need a kid like THAT at our school!"

[Michelle in MO]

While students will still have the option of submitting standardized test scores — and in fact, the majority of applicants still do so at many test-optional colleges — the most important criteria for admission will be high school curriculum and classroom performance, writing ability, extracurricular activities and evidence of character and talent.

 

ETA: My older dd has been in ps for the past 2 years. She scored an 1810 on the SAT. Certainly not stellar by WTM standards, but still pretty decent. She has consistently pulled scores in the high 90's and has a 100 average in her math class this semester. She is a member of both the National and Foreign Language Honor Societies. It is a shame to think that her SAT scores would cast a shadow on the review of her as a potential college student.

 

I agree with both LisaNY and Laura K in NC: there's so much more to a high school student's overall success than their SAT and ACT scores. (BTW, LisaNY--your daughter's SAT scores are very good!)

 

My oldest will be taking the ACT soon and opted out of the essay portion for this year. She really struggles with timed essays, although she can be a very good writer. I'm hoping she'll be up to speed with completing a full essay by the time she takes the ACT as a junior and senior. It's very nerve-wracking. I do think she could do a better job with an essay if it were a meaningful topic in an area which she could tackle.

 

I wonder if one of the big reasons for the timed ACT/SAT essays has to do with the rampant cheating that takes place in schools. In theory there is no way that they can cheat on those timed essays. I had to take two timed essays for the GRE in March and wasn't allowed so much as a water bottle, calculator, or my own pencil in the room! Apparently the ACT is the same way---no water or your own pencils, at least.

[merylvdm]

My dd did get accepted to Wake Forest this year (and all other colleges she applied to incl Vanderbilt and Emory). She has done quite a lot with 4-H and has participated in a lot of academic contests, but I suspect, as has been mentioned in previous posts, her essay probably had a fair deal to do with it.

The essay needs to have some 'angle', say something about the student to set them apart. As also mentioned previously, it can be just about anything. My daughter wrote hers on 'Diversity' - she explained how she liked to experience different things (and listed places she's travelled, things she's done etc) and ended by suggesting with her many experience, and particulalry the fact that she lived in South Africa until she turned 12, she would add to the diversity of their student population. (In the essay she made it obvious that she understood what was happening in SAfrica and other parts of the world, so they could see she was informed about world affairs).

When we went on a campus tour of Vanderbilt they read us an essay a student had written about some citizenship project he'd started somewhere in Africa.

So, I would suggest, find something that sets your child apart, or encourage them now - in the summer - to do something not many other people do - and then they'll have something to write about that will make their essay stand out.

Meryl

[ncmomo3]

I am glad this was posted today. I was speaking to a friend this morning and she said her dd had heard this. I (wrongly) assumed she was very mistaken, and now I happily see I was wrong. This is all very interesting.