I think she might be gifted and I am just not good at this...venting

[Ann.without.an.e]

I am not doing so great a accomodating for my intellectual child. She is 3rd grade this year and I put her in Saxon 5/4. It is way too easy for her, but I struggle with moving her forward because in future lessons I know we will get to things that we haven't technically learned. Her annual test admin. is also a Saxon tutor and he flipped when he found out she was only half way through Saxon 3, because she tested as if she was at a much higher level. She logically figured out problems far above the 3 level. And, yet, I put her in Saxon 5/4 this year! I just feel so unsure to move her to 6/5...I fear gaps and laying a bad foundation for future levels. She loved it when we used Singapore, so I have thought about keeping her at level with Saxon and adding in Singapore. With Singapore, I would let her work as far ahead in as she can. I know that Saxon is not considered the best math for a gifted child, but we really like it and I don't want to ditch it altogether.

 

Also, her total battery score at testing is in the "greater than the 99th percentile" range, the highest they can give. So, it isn't just Math she is zipping through. I have her in a year ahead in English (BJU) and I have added in IEW to that. I increased her workload a lot this year and yet she still zips through it incredibly fast and ends up saying she is bored or watching Backyardigans with the 2 year old. This is the child that I really haven't schooled very much! We only got half way through Saxon 3 last year because I was so focused on the older two.

 

Can I just say, while I am venting (bless your heart if you are still with me here!)...this child drives me crazy. She is so picky about her clothes and how they feel, she has no awareness of things around her, she cannot tie her shoes and she will be 9 this fall. I have worked with her and worked with her and she just gives up and whines. Is this normal? Is this a part of the package or is this something entirely different?

 

How do I know if she is truly gifted? Am I failing? Any advice about what to add/change/supplement with is appreciated.

 

If it helps, I will post her tests scores...this was her second year testing and the previous year was just like this (greater than the 99th percentile)

 

She was tested as a child in grade 2.9

 

Academic Skills equivalent was grade 8.4 sta-9=9

Brief achievement was GE 8.6 Sta-9 = 9

Broad Reading GE 7.4 sta-9 = 9

Broad Math GE 6.0 sta-9=9

 

How do I distinguish between above average and gifted? I lean toward gifted only because I haven't really worked with her in school very much.

[abbeyej]

Move her ahead. :) So what if (and I doubt it will happen) one day you get to a lesson that assumes she has done some basic arithmetic topic that she hasn't formally been taught? She'll be confused for about 15 seconds, and she'll either figure it out on her own or she'll say, "What on earth is this?!" and you'll explain it. And she'll understand and you'll move on. :)

 

She'll be much happier in 65 (and I suspect 76 would be a much more appropriate placement than 65) than she is in 54.

 

And yes, by all means let her work through Singapore as quickly as she likes as well. (You may find that for her, just doing the textbooks and the Intensive Practice books are more appropriate than the textbooks + workbooks. IP covers the same topics, but goes into much greater depth, with more challenging work.)

[NittanyJen]

If she hits something in math that she hasn't covered before, head on over to Khan Academy and let her figure it out. She'll love the independence of learning on her own, and love you for trusting her. If she is gifted, trust me on this. Gifted kids to NOT enjoy being tethered down.

 

They enjoy exploring. In fact, Khan Academy would be a great supplement to allow her to explore on her own-- she may surprise you with where she poked around on there if you don't restrict her to only doing set exercises. My kids can't wait to try out new math ideas on there! If they get stuck, they pull up a video lesson and go back and try again. Sometimes they end up saying, "Okay, that's why we still need to learn more math! Cool!"

 

Never force a kid to hang back academically-- that's a way to turn an eager learner into a kid who resents school.

 

That goes double if they are gifted.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Move her ahead. :) So what if (and I doubt it will happen) one day you get to a lesson that assumes she has done some basic arithmetic topic that she hasn't formally been taught? She'll be confused for about 15 seconds, and she'll either figure it out on her own or she'll say, "What on earth is this?!" and you'll explain it. And she'll understand and you'll move on. :)

 

She'll be much happier in 65 (and I suspect 76 would be a much more appropriate placement than 65) than she is in 54.

 

And yes, by all means let her work through Singapore as quickly as she likes as well. (You may find that for her, just doing the textbooks and the Intensive Practice books are more appropriate than the textbooks + workbooks. IP covers the same topics, but goes into much greater depth, with more challenging work.)

 

 

Thank You for your thoughts on this. My sticky situation is that I have a son only 17 months older who is average and not gifted. He is technically 2 grades ahead, in 5th grade, and using 6/5. I fear it will be an issue? I'm not sure? Should I go by a placement test at all? I haven't actually given her a placement test. I also considered letting her take the Chapter Tests until she gets less than an A and starting where she needs to be in 5/4. Just more rambling thoughts. Sorry:confused:

[Ann.without.an.e]

If she hits something in math that she hasn't covered before, head on over to Khan Academy and let her figure it out.

 

 

I have never heard of this. I will check it out. Thanks!

[EKS]

My sticky situation is that I have a son only 17 months older who is average and not gifted. He is technically 2 grades ahead, in 5th grade, and using 6/5. I fear it will be an issue?

 

I would take her completely out of Saxon and put her in Singapore so that this does not become an issue.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

It struck me reading your op that your daughter might benefit from/enjoy this game:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Think-Fun-7090-ThinkFun-Knot/dp/B0032UP5R8/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2U299KHORTKM&colid=9CLIMPJ6JSLZ

 

It could be good spacial reasoning practice in a fun environment that could translate to tying shoes.

[Crimson Wife]

this child drives me crazy. She is so picky about her clothes and how they feel, she has no awareness of things around her, she cannot tie her shoes and she will be 9 this fall. I have worked with her and worked with her and she just gives up and whines. Is this normal? Is this a part of the package or is this something entirely different?

 

She sounds like she might have some 2E ("twice exceptional") issues going on. I would recommend getting an Occupational Therapy assessment. Here is a checklist for sensory processing disorder- symptoms ring any bells?

[regentrude]

I would take her completely out of Saxon and put her in Singapore so that this does not become an issue.

 

:iagree:That's what I would do if you are afraid of sibling competition - have each sibling work a different curriculum to avoid direct comparison.

Also, what made you choose Saxon? Are you sure it is a good fit for her? (Saxon did not work well for my gifted kids at all)

[AK_Mom4]

We jumped from a 1st grade mathbook in 1st grade (public school) to Horizons 4 and 5 (done in 2nd grade) to Saxon 6/5 for 3rd and Saxon 8/7 in 4th. For 5th grade, DD10 is doing TT Algebra 1.

 

I mention this so you know that I have been where you are - it's scary to even think about skipping grade levels in math. But we had terrific success with just letting DD work at the level she was at - even if it was 1, 2, or even 3 grade leves about where she is *supposed* to be.

 

I would definitely think about changing publishers, though, since you have the older child currently doing the 6/5 book. I think that with kids that are rapidly accelerating, it can cause problems with older sibs and you probably don't need that added onto your day. There are many very good texts out there (Singapore, Horizons, Teaching Textbooks, MM) - I would pick one and let her run with it (use placement tests if they have them).

[Ann.without.an.e]

She sounds like she might have some 2E ("twice exceptional") issues going on. I would recommend getting an Occupational Therapy assessment. Here is a checklist for sensory processing disorder- symptoms ring any bells?

 

 

Hmmm...that is interesting. I have never heard of this before. Looking at the checklist I would say:

Poor tactile

Hyposensitivity to Touch

Emotional Dysfunction

 

maybe slight social dysfunction

 

Okay, what does this mean? Sorry, I am really clueless. :confused:

[Ann.without.an.e]

:iagree:That's what I would do if you are afraid of sibling competition - have each sibling work a different curriculum to avoid direct comparison.

Also, what made you choose Saxon? Are you sure it is a good fit for her? (Saxon did not work well for my gifted kids at all)

 

 

How do I know if it isn't a good fit? She does great with it, if that is what you are asking? In K, we used 1st grade Singapore and she liked it too.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I would take her completely out of Saxon and put her in Singapore so that this does not become an issue.

 

 

Unless something has changed, I am not math oriented enough to handle Singapore in the upper levels. I switched everyone to Saxon when I realized that there wasn't a step by step solutions manual and I was spending forever trying to figure out what went wrong with a problem. This was only in Singapore 6 :001_huh: I loved it up until then.

[Ann.without.an.e]

It struck me reading your op that your daughter might benefit from/enjoy this game:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Think-Fun-7090-ThinkFun-Knot/dp/B0032UP5R8/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2U299KHORTKM&colid=9CLIMPJ6JSLZ

 

It could be good spacial reasoning practice in a fun environment that could translate to tying shoes.

 

That looks fun :D

[NittanyJen]

I would take her completely out of Saxon and put her in Singapore so that this does not become an issue.

 

:iagree:

 

Avoid holding a child back from his or her potential just to preserve a sibling's feelings. If the child excelled in baseball, would you caution him to hit fewer home runs than an older sibling, or to run more slowly or jump lower? If it was musical talent, would a younger sibling be encouraged to hit more wrong notes than the older one, to avoid jealousy?

 

Yet for some reason, in academics (do not feel bad, you are far from alone in this) parents want to have an egalitarian attitude when it comes to academics, and not allow younger siblings surpass older ones, even when the natural alert is there, waiting to be nourished.

 

I am sure your older child either has or will discover their own gifts; your job is simply to value each child as an individual and coach them to realize their potential... And not hold back!

 

Hugs... None of this is as easy to do as it is to write about. The theory is easy. Balance ever is.

[Ann.without.an.e]

:iagree:

 

Avoid holding a child back from his or her potential just to preserve a sibling's feelings. If the child excelled in baseball, would you caution him to hit fewer home runs than an older sibling, or to run more slowly or jump lower? If it was musical talent, would a younger sibling be encouraged to hit more wrong notes than the older one, to avoid jealousy?

 

Yet for some reason, in academics (do not feel bad, you are far from alone in this) parents want to have an egalitarian attitude when it comes to academics, and not allow younger siblings surpass older ones, even when the natural alert is there, waiting to be nourished.

 

I am sure your older child either has or will discover their own gifts; your job is simply to value each child as an individual and coach them to realize their potential... And not hold back!

 

Hugs... None of this is as easy to do as it is to write about. The theory is easy. Balance ever is.

 

 

 

Thank you for your wisdom! I know these things in my mind but doing them is difficult. The good thing for me is that my son is not competitive and could really care less. If it were reversed and my dd was the older one, she would go crazy if he was gaining on her. She is highly competitive. The test administrator I had 2 years ago suggested that I split them in all subjects because she said then that dd was about to surpass him. I should have listened, but I am a practical person and it isn't practical for so many reasons. Instead, I made a bad decision and have held her back from her potential. I have made a decision that this stops. Beginning this year with more of a focus on her and a larger workload and seeing her zip through it has convinced my that I need to just let her go. I am now going to follow her lead. She has been sitting here doing Saxon 5/4 tests all afternoon....for fun, because I told her she can test out of the lessons and maybe move on to 6/5 sooner. She has a little fire under her. And, she has aced every test so far!

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Unless something has changed, I am not math oriented enough to handle Singapore in the upper levels. I switched everyone to Saxon when I realized that there wasn't a step by step solutions manual and I was spending forever trying to figure out what went wrong with a problem. This was only in Singapore 6 :001_huh: I loved it up until then.

 

 

 

Have you tested her in Teaching Textbooks? That is a great curriculum when placed correctly. Give her the placement tests for TT7 and TT- pre-algebra (don't worry, the pre-algebra is like a normal course before pre-algebra) Kids must be placed correctly for that program to work. I think that is why it has such a bad stigma about it. I am looking at that for my rising 4th grader and she will place in atleast TT6 possibly TT7. I don't consider my dd gifted, she just gets math and TT is a bit "behind" the graded level given.

[minuway]

Can I just say, while I am venting (bless your heart if you are still with me here!)...this child drives me crazy. She is so picky about her clothes and how they feel, she has no awareness of things around her, she cannot tie her shoes and she will be 9 this fall. I have worked with her and worked with her and she just gives up and whines. Is this normal? Is this a part of the package or is this something entirely different?

 

 

Are you familiar with "overexcitabilities" in gifted children?

 

When I read about these, it was like a huge AHA! moment - my dd6 seems to have similar quirks as yours. Especially the emotional and psychomotor issues are constant struggles - it helps at least understanding more where its coming from. Hope it helps!!

Edited August 11, 2011 by minuway

[jenbrdsly]

She sounds like she might have some 2E ("twice exceptional") issues going on. I would recommend getting an Occupational Therapy assessment. Here is a checklist for sensory processing disorder- symptoms ring any bells?

 

 

That's a really good checklist.

[jennynd]

I would take her completely out of Saxon and put her in Singapore so that this does not become an issue.

:iagree::iagree:

[EKS]

Unless something has changed, I am not math oriented enough to handle Singapore in the upper levels. I switched everyone to Saxon when I realized that there wasn't a step by step solutions manual and I was spending forever trying to figure out what went wrong with a problem. This was only in Singapore 6 :001_huh: I loved it up until then.

 

You don't have to go beyond Singapore 6. At that point switch to a prealgebra (or algebra) program that has the solutions and other supports in place.

[Crimson Wife]

Hmmm...that is interesting. I have never heard of this before. Looking at the checklist I would say:

Poor tactile

Hyposensitivity to Touch

Emotional Dysfunction

 

maybe slight social dysfunction

 

Okay, what does this mean? Sorry, I am really clueless. :confused:

 

It means that you should seriously consider getting an OT assessment. Getting professional help for SPD will likely make dealing with your child a lot easier.

[jjins]

you have just described my oldest... he is also doing two language programs: IEW SICC A (after having completed SWI A and Medieval History both last year), Phonics Zoo, Fix-it and Poetry as well as starting Latin Road (completed Bridge last year). We use two math programs (surprisingly) MUS as well as using many different math and logic books from Mindware.com . He was doing two science program last year: Apologia and RS4K, but this year we are only doing RS4K Chem 1 and Kogs (only bc it was too much for me). SOTW 2, audios from Mystery of History and clearly IEW Medieval History took care of history. If this does not seem like enough to drown him, he picked lapbooks to do on his own from Handsofachild. As well as often finding a subject of particular interest and checking out a stack of 10-15 books on it, reading them over 2 or more weeks and kindly sharing many tidbits with sis.

 

I find it is a struggle to teach him only because I feel like I am teaching two VERY motivated students in one. Plus, he has all sorts of quirks, is a perfectest, struggles with assumed inadequacy, and is a competitive gymnast.

 

Fortunately, we had him in PS kinder and he was tested for the gifted program. This is how we learned (for free) that he was profoundly gifted. BTW, free aside from the struggles of PS. :-) Two years later we had him with a psychologist who talked with him and us a lot, ran some tests of her own. Confirmed he was not ADD/ADHD, sent him to be evaluated for Autism Spectrum, and confirmed that he is profoundly gifted and the quirks will settle as he ages.

 

I have found the best thing I can do for his education is to keep him passionate about learning. Help him learn where I can. I only actually teach him language arts, everything else we work together. Obviously, he sees IEW as Andrew Pudewa teaching him, but Latin Road and Bridge are all on mama right now.

 

BTW, we have a daughter less than 1 1/2 years younger. She is also profoundly gifted, but she is VERY socially aware, does not have odd quirks, BUT holds back on her knowledge. She does not want everyone to know that she is smart. Homeschooling her has been very similar, EXCEPT she does not see that she is as quick and bright as he is and if she were in any other classroom setting she would do poor because she does not want to do better than peers. Homeschooling keeps her from seeing how far advanced she is from her peers and just leaves me having to give her a little extra push.

 

I know this is hard, I struggle with it daily, but it has gotten much easier as we have continued to homeschool! Also, this may help your daughter - we have them both accelerated so that we are in social settings they do not seem so different than GRADE level peers (especially in homeschool groups). BUT... this is a big but... they both know they will NOT apply for 4 year university until they are 18!! This means "5 year plan for high school". This is for maturity not anything else. We have told them the pluses are that they will be able to have more classes under their belts, more sciences, history, at least two foreign languages and lots of excellent experiences. ACT and SAT testing will be easier and maybe open up more scholarship opportunities if sports do not bring them in.

[Ann.without.an.e]

You all have given me so much to process and think about. So much wisdom and advice! I am definitely rethinking some things for sure! Thank you so much. I am truly appreciative! :001_smile: