Just started first and math is already an issue? Using singapore. Help!

[staceyobu]

We spent pre-k playing with cuisenaire rods and learning to count objects. Before kindergarten, she was adding easy numbers (1+2, 4+2, etc). We jumped in with Singapore 1 and the first Miquon book and I figured we'd take things slow and back up if needed.

 

She sailed through until we reached regrouping (ie 2+9 is actually 1+9+1). We worked and worked at it and could not get her doing it independently. So, I bought a Singapore 1a practice book and figured we'd go back and solidify what we had covered. At the end of K, we reached regrouping again in the practice book and she still couldn't get a grasp on it. We took a break for the summer.

 

Now, we are starting this year and she doesn't seem to remember ANYTHING we did last year. She is still at the point of only knowing beginning addition facts. She still isn't getting harder ones like 2+7. We just started back and spent the last three days on review only of basic addition. It doesn't seem to be "coming back to her" even after three days.

 

So, I don't know what to do. Do I repurchase Singapore 1a and restart it now with her a year older? Do I use a different program for practice? Just practice on a white board with previous Singapore problems until it seems solidified this year? I'm just baffled by this. She's reading on a 6th grade level and writing well. She didn't seem to forget any grammar or spelling over the summer. What is happening with math?????

[LanaTron]

Is she using any type of manipulative? I've allowed my kids to use manipulatives with Singapore until they decided not to use them on their own, especially with that regrouping stuff. It's just too abstract for some kids to grasp without having a concrete example. My dd is starting 3rd grade with Singapore 2B, and she's just now able to do the regrouping in her head. And I'm sure when we get to multiplication again, she'll need the manipulatives again.

[staceyobu]

Is she using any type of manipulative? I've allowed my kids to use manipulatives with Singapore until they decided not to use them on their own, especially with that regrouping stuff. It's just too abstract for some kids to grasp without having a concrete example. My dd is starting 3rd grade with Singapore 2B, and she's just now able to do the regrouping in her head. And I'm sure when we get to multiplication again, she'll need the manipulatives again.

 

Yes. We are using cuisenaire rods with them.

[LanaTron]

also remember that in Singapore, children don't start 1A until they are 7, or in what we would call 2nd grade. And just because your dd is advanced/gifted in reading and Language arts, doesn't mean she will be in math. Some kids are lopsided for a while--like my older dd who can set the house on fire with reading, but struggles with math.

[LanaTron]

my older dd I referenced above struggled mightily with Singapore. I switched her to Rod and Staff for a while, util she begged me to go back to Singapore. The time she spent doing the drill and kill of R&S allowed her to mature and get addition under her belt a little better, so she was successful with Singapore then. When she started really struggling with multiplication in Singapore, I did the same thing--but used MUS Gamma until she begged me to go back to Singapore. She completed through 5A, then I switched her to Lial's BCM in 8th grade, and now she's starting Algebra in 9th. But, I still cannot use the more abstract type programs with her--my ds is using Life of Fred, she's using Lial's with it's very clear, concrete explanations.

 

Wish I could be of more help. But perhaps some math guru will pipe up soon.

[staceyobu]

also remember that in Singapore, children don't start 1A until they are 7, or in what we would call 2nd grade. And just because your dd is advanced/gifted in reading and Language arts, doesn't mean she will be in math. Some kids are lopsided for a while--like my older dd who can set the house on fire with reading, but struggles with math.

 

My understanding from reading multiple threads is that Singapore 1 is supposed to be used for first grade? I thought it wasn't a grade ahead?

[Crimson Wife]

My suggestion would be to get the Right Start math tutorial program, Activities for the AL Abacus. It is relatively inexpensive and covers up through 4th grade math. It's not designed to be a "spine" but will help you incorporate some of the Right Start way of teaching into whatever spine you choose like Singapore.

[LanaTron]

I do, but with the exception of my eldest dc, my kids end up not doing one level per year. My two younger children who are still in Singapore are starting 3rd grade and 6th grade--and starting 2B and 4B, respectively. So, they're half a level behind, and I would be okay even if they were a whole level behind. My goal isn't to have academically advanced kids, but to have a good understanding of the basics in time to start algebra in either 8th or 9th grade. If they get there earlier because they are gifted in that way, great, but there's no rush.

 

The various series of Singapore books after 6B go straight into Algebra topics, and that is how some of us use Singapore as well--no pre-algebra (my eldest dc). But a student who finishes through level 6 in 6th grade may or may not be mentally mature enough for algebra, so many people fill in with pre-algebra (the older dd referenced in this thread).

 

So...all I'm saying is it's okay if you take it more slowly...there's no harm done if a student doesn't finish level 6 until the end of 7th grade or so. Stick on a topic until your dc gets it. Or take a foray into another resource for a little while, then return to Singapore/Miquon.

[LanaTron]

I second this. It is the one manipulative my dc would actually use, and it fits right in with the way Singapore teaches math.

[....]

You're OK, I wouldn't backtrack. I have a 9 yro, 8 yro, 6 yro and 3 yro. It's been like that movie Groundhog Day for me with 1st grade. They always forget their math facts (and a lot of other stuff). Every darn one of them...:glare: When my 9 yro was in ps, her teacher told me that was very common at that age (I think I was complaining). They're just really little. That's why teachers do a lot of review.

 

I think by the end of 4th grade, kids should have their math facts mastered. I'd be more concerned with the kids knowing how the numbers work...how to solve problems... We used CLE math one year and they have a laminated math facts chart. That helped my oldest kids a lot.

 

There was also another Singapore thread a few days ago...somebody was having trouble with SM. I wrote in how I use SM. I give my kids 5 review problems every day and we also do math facts review (flashcards) every day. Not so sure I would worry about it for a 6 yro, tho...

 

My 6 yro is currently in Singapore 1A. We're starting to work with math facts, but I'm keeping everything very relaxed.

 

Not sure if my post helps at all...:tongue_smilie:

 

Edited to say: Are you in 1B right now?

[EKS]

I recommend getting RightStart level B and using it this year. Over the summer, children tend to lose what they didn't really internalize the year before. IMO, the level 1 materials in the PM series are the weakest in the program (followed closely by the level 6 materials). I would use RS B this year and then jump into Singapore again in 2A next year (or whenever she finishes RS B).

[sbgrace]

I recommend getting RightStart level B and using it this year. Over the summer, children tend to lose what they didn't really internalize the year before. IMO, the level 1 materials in the PM series are the weakest in the program (followed closely by the level 6 materials). I would use RS B this year and then jump into Singapore again in 2A next year (or whenever she finishes RS B).

 

I agree with this. I really think RightStart B will be her best foundation this year and then jump to Singapore. I think the way they teach addition and place value just can't be beat.

[Mommy22alyns]

also remember that in Singapore, children don't start 1A until they are 7, or in what we would call 2nd grade. And just because your dd is advanced/gifted in reading and Language arts, doesn't mean she will be in math. Some kids are lopsided for a while--like my older dd who can set the house on fire with reading, but struggles with math.

 

 

:iagree:

 

Look, Singapore isn't for all kids. It was a pretty big flop here. Rebecca did wonderfully once I switched her to Right Start. Now we're using CLE and TT and she's still doing really well. Singapore just didn't work for us.

[staceyobu]

 

Edited to say: Are you in 1B right now?

 

We are on exercise 43 out of 58 in 1a. We did part of 1a for kindergarten and then an additional singapore practice book from Mardel.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into right start.

 

Edited to add: Oh my gosh! I'm looking at right start. $150 for level B??? It will last a year?

Edited August 10, 2011 by staceyobu

[....]

We are on exercise 43 out of 58 in 1a. We did part of 1a for kindergarten and then an additional singapore practice book from Mardel.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into right start.

 

Edited to add: Oh my gosh! I'm looking at right start. $150 for level B??? It will last a year?

 

Oh, I see where you are...subtraction (our nemesis). :D Yeah, I wouldn't back up. Sometimes kids really hit a wall in math. I've had to put math away (for the 8 yro) and just unschool math for a few weeks, then return to our program. Sometimes, that helps.

 

You're already ahead...if I were in your shoes, I would put it away for a month...and just work on adding/subtracting with manipulatives...or maybe some daily life math? Does your library have any of those addition/subtraction storybooks?

 

If you're looking for a different program, have you seen Math Mammoth? Or CLE Math? CLE is about 30 bucks for the whole year. We used CLE one year when we were struggling with SM. It was a very solid program.

 

I think part of the problem people have with Singapore is that it's so different from the way we were taught math. This has always been my problem. Also, it conflicts with my Perfect Paula brain. :D

[staceyobu]

Oh, I see where you are...subtraction (our nemesis). :D Yeah, I wouldn't back up. Sometimes kids really hit a wall in math. I've had to put math away (for the 8 yro) and just unschool math for a few weeks, then return to our program. Sometimes, that helps.

 

You're already ahead...if I were in your shoes, I would put it away for a month...and just work on adding/subtracting with manipulatives...or maybe some daily life math? Does your library have any of those addition/subtraction storybooks?

 

If you're looking for a different program, have you seen Math Mammoth? Or CLE Math? CLE is about 30 bucks for the whole year. We used CLE one year when we were struggling with SM. It was a very solid program.

 

I think part of the problem people have with Singapore is that it's so different from the way we were taught math. This has always been my problem. Also, it conflicts with my Perfect Paula brain. :D

 

I just want to clarify a little. Subtraction isn't the issue because we haven't started that lesson yet. :001_smile: I think the main wall we hit was with regrouping. We got stuck there, went back and did a completely different book, got stuck there again, took the summer off, and now it's basically as if we did no math at all during kindergarten...

[Greenmama2]

Is she having problems with regrouping because she hasn't actually internalised place value yet? That happened to my DD. We spent lots of time playing games like make ten and trading up, playing duplo with her little brother and pointing out stacks of ten, ten stacks of ten etc, reading the Sir cumference book on place value. One day it finally just clicked so now "regrouping" makes sense to her.

[staceyobu]

Is she having problems with regrouping because she hasn't actually internalised place value yet? That happened to my DD. We spent lots of time playing games like make ten and trading up, playing duplo with her little brother and pointing out stacks of ten, ten stacks of ten etc, reading the Sir cumference book on place value. One day it finally just clicked so now "regrouping" makes sense to her.

 

Maybe so. What I'm confused about is she also didn't seem to internalize 7+2 or 8+1 or any other basic math facts. She can only add them by slowly counting on her fingers. And this is after a year of playing with c rods and doing all the number bond exercises etc. I'm just baffled. She's a smart kid. Why didn't any of it stick?

[skueppers]

Maybe so. What I'm confused about is she also didn't seem to internalize 7+2 or 8+1 or any other basic math facts. She can only add them by slowly counting on her fingers. And this is after a year of playing with c rods and doing all the number bond exercises etc. I'm just baffled. She's a smart kid. Why didn't any of it stick?

 

What did you do to help her memorize the math facts in the first place, and what did you do over summer break to keep it from getting forgotten? I think knowing what you've already tried will help generate ideas of where to go next.

 

To tell you what I have done, I had my daughter do math drills (flashcard type, but on the iPod touch) for six months or more to help with addition/subtraction fact memorization. Once she seemed to have it solidly down, I made sure she had opportunities to use the facts in math problems several times a week, plus we played lots of games that required arithmetic. This summer, the longest break we have taken from formal math work was one week. This seems to be working for us.

[Angie in VA]

I bet I am in the minority here, but we, a la Bluedorns, did no *formal* math w/ our dc till age 10.

 

The results? Two for two. Both do well in math. Just had to throw that out there.

 

I realize your state may require math sooner, and, more importantly, you and your DH may require it for your homeschool.

[kalanamak]

We just started back and spent the last three days on review only of basic addition. It doesn't seem to be "coming back to her" even after three days.

I'm just baffled by this. She's reading on a 6th grade level and writing well. She didn't seem to forget any grammar or spelling over the summer. What is happening with math?????

 

Math is different. I'd play math card games for awhile to see if it comes back before hitting panic. Math facts bingo was big for us, so was Sum Swamp. I think you have to make math facts bingo. I found an old German one, but nothing like it here.

 

But I'm :bigear:

[Tmhearn]

We had a similar situation. We started 1A in Kindergarten, and then stalled out. I ended up buying a subscription to Math Whizz, so that dd could just get some math done everyday without us having to continue to be so frustrated while working together. Once the math facts were down a little better, we were able to move on. We are on week 7 of 2A now and sailing along. I think it's very important to cement the facts before moving on.

 

Taryn

[Spy Car]

Math is different. I'd play math card games for awhile to see if it comes back before hitting panic. Math facts bingo was big for us, so was Sum Swamp. I think you have to make math facts bingo. I found an old German one, but nothing like it here.

 

But I'm :bigear:

 

:iagree:

 

I'm with you. I would play every kind of game that involves making sums with cards, dice, dominoes, or whatever.

 

Most especially I would work on the foundational skill of "pairs that make 10." One great game for this is RightStart's "Go to the Dump." You can see the instructions on YouTube.

 

Do the same with C Rods. Show all the pairs that make 10.

 

Once she has pairs that make 10 wired you can restart the addition with re-grouping to 10s.

 

Bill

[EKS]

Maybe so. What I'm confused about is she also didn't seem to internalize 7+2 or 8+1 or any other basic math facts. She can only add them by slowly counting on her fingers. And this is after a year of playing with c rods and doing all the number bond exercises etc. I'm just baffled. She's a smart kid. Why didn't any of it stick?

 

It can take a long time for these things to stick. Even with kids who are really bright.

 

RightStart was worth every penny for us. My son hit a wall in level 1 of Singapore and RS B saved us. The RS games really helped solidify math facts, much more so than flashcards or any other way we tried (worksheets and flashmaster come to mind).