tntgoodwin Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Do you believe regeneration occurs prior to faith, or after? In other words, which is the cause, and which is the effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I think they work together as part of the process of salvation. They're not separate, one coming before the other, but synergistic. Faith begets regeneration and regeneration begets faith. Together, along with other things prescribed by the church, they bring about the healing of our souls. "I was saved, I am saved, I will be saved." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 What she said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 Are you both EO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Okay, LDS don't use the word "regeneration", so could you explain what it means, so I can respond from an LDS perspective? (we may just have a different name for it ;) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I think they work together as part of the process of salvation. They're not separate, one coming before the other, but synergistic. Faith begets regeneration and regeneration begets faith. Together, along with other things prescribed by the church, they bring about the healing of our souls. "I was saved, I am saved, I will be saved." :iagree: And I'm Anglican. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 By regeneration I mean the heart change, being "born again." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I think they work together as part of the process of salvation. They're not separate, one coming before the other, but synergistic. Faith begets regeneration and regeneration begets faith. Together, along with other things prescribed by the church, they bring about the healing of our souls. "I was saved, I am saved, I will be saved." :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 By regeneration I mean the heart change, being "born again." Okay, then I'd have to say our belief is very similar to the EO/RC view (from how I understand it). It is a process, beginning at Baptism and Confirmation, where we allow the Holy Spirit to guide us and help us draw closer to God. He (the Holy Spirit) guides us to truth and light, and as we follow Him we qualify ourselves to recieve more truth and light. We choose and He gives, we choose more and He gives more, and on and on and on as we strive for Sanctification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 After. And it's a change only God can accomplish. We can't do it on our own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Are you both EO? Yes, but as you have seen, it's not just the Orthodox that believe this way. By regeneration I mean the heart change, being "born again." To us, "born again" is what happens at baptism (i.e., with water and spirit); a sacrament of the church where we're washed clean. A heart change is repentence, -- what happens over time (as we work out our salvation) which leads to the healing of our soul. So I probably shouldn't have entered the discussion without coming to agreement on -- or defining -- terms first. Apologies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 No worries! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 To us, "born again" is what happens at baptism (i.e., with water and spirit); a sacrament of the church where we're washed clean. A heart change is repentence, -- what happens over time (as we work out our salvation) which leads to the healing of our soul. :iagree: Catholics also believe this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 So, it appears the majority of people here are synergistic as opposed to monergistic, right? Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutTN Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) Chiming in from a Reformed position: God regenerates, then we are converted (conversion = faith + repentance). We are dead in sin until God gives us a new heart, spiritual life. Dead people don't do anything, including believe! Reading about this: Redemption Accomplished and Applied by John Murray, a classic much lighter and very interesting: Spiritual Birthline by Stephen Smallman This book delves into how people experience conversion. It uses John 3 as a reference text and has many stories in it. Great read! Smallman is a PCA pastor. Edited July 18, 2011 by ScoutTN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenniferB Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 So, it appears the majority of people here are synergistic as opposed to monergistic, right? Interesting. What do you mean by "here," those who have responded so far, i.e. "on this thread," or "on this forum?" On this forum there are many, many opinions, I'm sure. If you want to get a this-or-that tally, you could post a poll. I would vote "synergistic." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 :iagree: Catholics also believe this. I thinks it's safe to say most Anglicans also do. It's certainly been my understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I think they work together as part of the process of salvation. They're not separate, one coming before the other, but synergistic. Faith begets regeneration and regeneration begets faith. Together, along with other things prescribed by the church, they bring about the healing of our souls. "I was saved, I am saved, I will be saved." This. It is part of the whole. Not coming before nor after. It's not an outline, it's a blender ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 What do you mean by "here," those who have responded so far, i.e. "on this thread," or "on this forum?" On this forum there are many, many opinions, I'm sure. If you want to get a this-or-that tally, you could post a poll. I would vote "synergistic." I went from monergistic to synergistic. However, when it comes to that, I simply leave it in God's hands and figure that there is no way we will ever have that mystery entirely figured out. Sometimes we (humans) focus so much on splitting hairs and trying to put everything in an "order" that we think we can understand, that we don't really just sit back and realise that God is going to work however He's going to work. Calvinists will be monergistic. There are plenty of those on the board as well :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenniferB Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I've heard the analogy, "dancing with God." I like the picture this invokes, because when the two are in perfect sync, it's so beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I've heard the analogy, "dancing with God." I like the picture this invokes, because when the two are in perfect sync, it's so beautiful. I love that one, too. I went from monergistic to synergistic. However, when it comes to that, I simply leave it in God's hands and figure that there is no way we will ever have that mystery entirely figured out. Sometimes we (humans) focus so much on splitting hairs and trying to put everything in an "order" that we think we can understand, that we don't really just sit back and realise that God is going to work however He's going to work. Calvinists will be monergistic. There are plenty of those on the board as well :) :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenniferB Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I went from monergistic to synergistic. However, when it comes to that, I simply leave it in God's hands and figure that there is no way we will ever have that mystery entirely figured out. Sometimes we (humans) focus so much on splitting hairs and trying to put everything in an "order" that we think we can understand, that we don't really just sit back and realise that God is going to work however He's going to work. Calvinists will be monergistic. There are plenty of those on the board as well :) LOL! One year ago I would have said, "I dont know," two years ago "God initiates," ten years ago "man initiates," and fifteen years ago, "who cares?" I don't think I've gotten any wiser after all these years. I now believe it's synergy, but I'm also inclined to think, "who cares?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 LOL! One year ago I would have said, "I dont know," two years ago "God initiates," ten years ago "man initiates," and fifteen years ago, "who cares?" I don't think I've gotten any wiser after all these years. I now believe it's synergy, but I'm also inclined to think, "who cares?" Ditto here. Sounds like my own progress/regress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenjenn Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 It depends on the individual. This is not usual, but I believe in God because I chose to believe in God. Before I made that choice, I was agnostic. I believe in God now, but only because I made a choice first constructed of logic and reason, and then faith followed. As a result I am a practicing Jew, born from a secular Jewish background. There is no way I could make the choice as it relates to Jesus. That is something I explored thoroughly and with an open heart, and I even tried at one point to make that choice but it was empty for me. Trust me, my life would be a HECK of a lot easier if I was Christian, but it just can't happen for me. Not something some Christians are able or willing to believe, but what can I say? It is true. Believe me or not. It is probable that there are some people who can reason their way to faith in Christ. It is also probable that there are some who make the leap and then the faith follows. I also suspect there are some people who cannot find faith in God even if they want to. All I know is my own experience, and there you have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 It depends on the individual. This is not usual, but I believe in God because I chose to believe in God. Before I made that choice, I was agnostic. I believe in God now, but only because I made a choice first constructed of logic and reason, and then faith followed. As a result I am a practicing Jew, born from a secular Jewish background. There is no way I could make the choice as it relates to Jesus. That is something I explored thoroughly and with an open heart, and I even tried at one point to make that choice but it was empty for me. Trust me, my life would be a HECK of a lot easier if I was Christian, but it just can't happen for me. Not something some Christians are able or willing to believe, but what can I say? It is true. Believe me or not. It is probable that there are some people who can reason their way to faith in Christ. It is also probable that there are some who make the leap and then the faith follows. I also suspect there are some people who cannot find faith in God even if they want to. All I know is my own experience, and there you have it. A Jewish friend and I agree: Hashem has us right where He wants us at the moment. HE is the one that works on our hearts. And Faith is a journey after all, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 What do you mean by "here," those who have responded so far, i.e. "on this thread," or "on this forum?" On this forum there are many, many opinions, I'm sure. If you want to get a this-or-that tally, you could post a poll. I would vote "synergistic." I meant in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iona Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 i believe regeneration precedes faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I'll come out as "Reformed" and say that I believe regeneration precedes faith.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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