Murphy101 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Hey! Learned something new today. I've been meaning to change my avatar for weeks and after this discussion I thought I'd use a picture of a purple triangle and googled images of them to use. Simple, right? I am forced to admit my ignorance and that I most certainly am not a purple triangle. Given that I am not JW, nor have I ever been persecuted as such, I will no longer refer to myself as a purple triangle. Selfishly, I'm very disappointed. Purple is my favorite color and usually associated with Christ and royalty and the holy trinity. Perfect for my RC self, but sadly it is already taken. Sigh. Maybe I can find another image that suits.... I just thought this was rather ironic given that some were claiming they wanted more specific clear cut descriptions of groups to avoid people joining in confusion or being hurt with rejection. I figure can't get more specific than being a purple triangle, but no, even that could be misunderstood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I have experienced these sorts of problems, too, as I stated in my original post. I have no problem with a group forming and stating rights of exclusivity up front. I do have a problem with existing groups being taken over by a few individuals who choose (without consent of the group as a whole) to change the focus or parameters of the group and thereby exclude others, perhaps even those who founded the group and who may have worked in it for years, invested sums of money in it, etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Yeah, I'm with you. I've given up on groups. If enough folks coerce me to teach a class, I'll do a free-standing class for them, but I've even gotten out of the field trip scheduling business.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 What a bummer! Now that you mention that, I do recall that the first time around for the co-op I helped start (twice), there was a mom of a pre-schooler who tried to instruct, manipulate, and change every single thing the pre-school teacher did. Because I didn't have any pre-schoolers and wasn't the only leader in the group, I didn't have to deal with her constantly, but I did have to go through my share of personal talks with her. She finally withdrew her special needs child from the group after about 6 people had many, many discussions (and many weeks) with her about why we couldn't do things like have a schedule for bathroom and make every single kid go at the same time, etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I got so tired of having to try to accommodate everyone! And did anyone ever offer to help - no, they just criticized. But the thing that I'm seeing is that some homeschoolers feel entitled to the benefits of someone else's hard work. How I'd love to find a group that offered quality courses (essentially free as we did) and in which I didn't have to do anything other than empty the waste baskets. Yes! Grrrrrr!! You hear, "Whine whine whine COMPLAIN whine" And you feel like the Little Red Hen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4everHis Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Just speaking for myself, but I think it's the name they claim that rubs me the wrong way. 'Christian Homeschoolers of .....'. Great, you think. No. By the time they get through defining Christian it has become a subset of subset of a subset of Christianity. It would be more honest if they said 'Selective Christian Homeschoolers....' Does the Yellow Group allow for all variations of yellow: lemon yellow, dark yellow, light yellow, or only what they consider pure yellow. Yes, I know, it's their group, their rules. But there are others who claim the same name but get turned away. Their color is slightly off.... this! this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smillard00 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 For those of you against exclusive groups, I guess I'm hearing here a more general anger that there is exclusion, just because people are against exclusion in any way, shape or form in the homeschooling community. Is that right? Or is it more your kids not have friends to associate with? Or you as moms feel you don't have a circle of homeschooling friends to chat with because all the other families belong to this group and there is no one else left? For me, it's not anger, but frustration and disappointment. In my area, there is a group for yellow circles and a group for yellow rectangles, but I'm a yellow OBLONG so I can't join either group. The circle families hang out with each other and say, "We could hang out together if you joined the yellow circle group." The rectangle families hang out with each other and pretty much assume that we belong with the circle families so they exclude us. (We'd rather hang out with the rectangle families, really, but oh well.) And all of the oblong families we know don't have time to hang out because their children go to school all day, have homework all night, sports on the weekend, and are desperately scrambling to try to have some family time in there somewhere. So my sweet little oblongs are crumbling around the edges a little bit and I'm afraid their yellow is going to fade away because they aren't experiencing any other yellow love from the other yellow shapes. It's just exclusion, exclusion, exclusion. They may even be starting to resent that their father is a yellow oblong leader because his calling has taken them away from the home they knew and loved and put them in this place where all of the other yellow shapes are so wrapped up in their own exclusive shape groups that they exclude all of the other yellow shapes who might need some love and support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Interestingly, fanatical EXCLUSION OF religion from societies has a similar history. I don't think religion or the lack of it makes much of a difference - the powerful will seek more power, try to hold on to it, use whatever tools they must including violence. Religion, or lack there-of, is just one of the tools those in power might decide to use. It is all of us (the general us) below who are guilty of going along with it. Letting the people in charge take our humanity away by trying to force us to choose "us or them". It is truly sad, but also a repeating theme throughout the history of the world. Divide and conquer. Those divided can't stand together to form a better world. Look - I'm not saying that all the religious groups (or any other group) in the world have this as their goal.... it isn't that simple, so don't try to get offended by it. Sadly, whether it is the goal or not- it is still a problem. But let's look at it this way- if we cannot agree to love one another and stand together - especially when the differences are (sorry) miniscule -then what hope do we have of every achieving the peace Jesus, Buddah, and all those other prophets were trying to help us achieve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I don't understand the assumption that I wouldn't be willing to volunteer, just because I don't want to start a new group from scratch nearly every time I move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I don't understand the assumption that I wouldn't be willing to volunteer, just because I don't want to start a new group from scratch nearly every time I move. Ack. No. That's not what I meant. It's a lot of work just to get a group up and going and keep it running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Ack. No. That's not what I meant. It's a lot of work just to get a group up and going and keep it running. Oh, okay. I agree with that. I've BTDT. Can you recognize that for someone who moves so frequently and often (but not this time) has to start from scratch making new friends, starting support groups within our unit, etc that it is too much to ask for me to start a new group every couple of years? I move by the time it gets going, kwim? It's easy to say "well, sucks for you, deal with it." I'd rather people take a look at these policies and reconsider *a little*. I think there is enormous room for compromise. I realize that's a 4 letter word in some circles, but can't we compromise *within our circles*? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Oh, okay. I agree with that. I've BTDT. Can you recognize that for someone who moves so frequently and often (but not this time) has to start from scratch making new friends, starting support groups within our unit, etc that it is too much to ask for me to start a new group every couple of years? I move by the time it gets going, kwim? Oh I totally recognize it.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 And that's why I am not thrilled with the idea of very wordy and "well-defined" group descriptions. It can backfire and make it hard for people (groups really) to offer that compromise. Ideally with an application process, you at least get a chance to present your case. The coop I just joined for Spanish require volunteer hours, but I can't bring all my 9 other kids with me to fulfill my oldest's class requirements, especially when one will be a 2 month old nursing baby. No problem. I paid extra instead. So I don't feel like I'm not keeping my commitments and they don't feel taken advantage of. The application and interview process actually helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I see. But any group has to start somewhere, small that is. Those families could start their own group, or you could ... speaking of anyone who doesn't belong to the "big group." I did start my own group locally because I hate to drive. :D So I started a geographical group (area of town). We had maybe 3 families the first week, very small. We are up to probably 5 or 6 families now, many of them new to homeschooling or new to the area ... in other words without a group to start with. That is okay. We have a blast every week even though we are small. If you (general case here) are feeling excluded, it would make sense others in the community are also. So there would seem to be an opening for a determined mom to form a new group with new rules. There have to be some disgruntled people in that big group from what I'm hearing who hate that SOF or lied to join and want something more authentic for their family?? :iagree::iagree::iagree: Martha, you are playing my song!:D I got so tired of having to try to accommodate everyone! And did anyone ever offer to help - no, they just criticized. But the thing that I'm seeing is that some homeschoolers feel entitled to the benefits of someone else's hard work. Sorry, but when I get complaints that someone doesn't like the dress code, or the behavior code, or the SOF, or having to help, yada yada yada....well, I think that person is probably not the target audience of the group! She should spend her own free time and make her own group - stay out of mine!:glare: I guarantee that once she has walked in the other moccasins she'll be a lot less critical. It's a thankless job. Okay, I'm still grumpy, but a little less so...is it the heat :001_huh: How I'd love to find a group that offered quality courses (essentially free as we did) and in which I didn't have to do anything other than empty the waste baskets. It isn't as easy as you (generally) might think. If one is in a small rural area with three homeschooing families and wants to join the established group but can't for whatever reason, who is one to start a group with? The group already has all the homeschooling families involved. Why on earth would they stop their group to join your newly established group? It isn't going to happen. So the yellow circle who isn't the right color yellow can't join the yellow circle group and there isn't anyone else left to be a yellow circle with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 :lol: Kalanamak, wtihout the context of the thread, I have to hand over the Most Bizarre Post award to you. I had to read it several times, but really enjoyed it before I "got" it...almost sad I got it. And let he would could stand up to such scrutiny cast the first stone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Thinking out loud here-- I'm only a homeschool mom for a few more weeks before DD goes off to college...but I have been a part of a few co-ops... good and bad in my 12+ years of homeschooling. *** 3 circles meet at the park. They are all homeschool families and all love the color yellow--in fact yellow is a VERY important color to them. They decide to get together regularly and pool resources to teach their children-- incorporating the yellow they love so much into all subjects. The group is open to other circle families joining-as long as they love yellow too. Yellow is that important to them. One circle family is very interested in joining but they are not yellow only circles. This family is orange--it has some yellow but it also incorporates red too. A second circle family also wants to join. They do not like yellow--they are purple. They want to join for purely educational reasons--and they don't see how yellow has anything to do with education. The original yellow circles soon find their little group at the center of a major debate. If they do not allow the other colors of circles to join them they will be called 'snobby', 'rude' and 'intolerant'. If they allow the orange circles and the purple circles to join their group then they would be compromising their dedication to yellow and will have to stop the incorporation of yellow in their classes (so they will not offend the other colors). This seems like a 'fair' solution to the orange and purple families... but it is not what brought the original group together. The love of yellow is what brought the group together and their strong desire to have yellow be a part of their whole lives--even in the education of their children...to them, yellow is not something that should be loved in secret. *** I do not see anything wrong with the yellow circles having their own homeschool group even though I am a blue square. :iagree: I've never understood why people want to force themselves into an environment or situation where they aren't welcome. How is forced inclusion any better than exclusion? Not everything is for everybody all the time. Yellow circles and blue squares and orange triangles can't stay their vibrant colors if they're forced into becoming a big gray blob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 :iagree: I've never understood why people want to force themselves into an environment or situation where they aren't welcome. How is forced inclusion any better than exclusion? Not everything is for everybody all the time. Yellow circles and blue squares and orange triangles can't stay their vibrant colors if they're forced into becoming a big gray blob. When did you change your name? Again, this isn't really about yellow circles and blue squares. It's about certain yellow circles insisting that other yellow circles aren't the right color of yellow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 When did you change your name? Again, this isn't really about yellow circles and blue squares. It's about certain yellow circles insisting that other yellow circles aren't the right color of yellow. Exactly. As a yellow circle I'd like to associate with other yellow circles doing yellow circle activities and talking to other yellow circle moms and dads. To be told I'm not a yellow circle or that I'm not the right kind of yellow circle is not the same as forcing my yellow circle self into a group of blue squares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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