Karate questions

[clarkacademy]

My children do not do this. I am not blasting anyone I am just really wondering from some of the threads I have seen lately, that is all. I understand to recieve a black belt you must pay a pretty hefty fee for a test? OK what if you can"t? I mean from what I have read a blackbelt takes years to earn with alot of hardwork, it's not just a award they give you for showing up.

 

I mean you already pay for the class, shouldn't your award so to speak be part of that? It just seems a bit farfetched to me is all. I mean you or your child earned this, why do you have to pay extra to recieve it? It was kind of like when my daughter did dance and all then I had to pay a fee for her to be in the recital. I had payed for the class, I had payed for the costume and all the gas money for 11 months three times a week getting her back and forth. Isn't that what she worked for? Now I have to pay so she can participate?

 

Childrens activities have gotten out of control in my opinion. It is a bog money drop to me. My son wants karate and there is just no way I could do all that. My daughter wants 146 dollar tennis shoes for that they had better get up and lace themselves and make me breakfast. I just am lost on all the fees for kids to do anything I suppose. But what would happen to a person who could not afford that black belt fee? Their hardwork and all was for nothing?

[Mom-ninja.]

At the dojo my kids go to there is no fee for testing or belt promotion. You also get the first uniform free.

 

I love our karate dojo.

[Cheryl in NM]

If you meant strictly "karate" then disregard my post, but I beleive you meant "martial arts". I have heard of the practice of buying your belt. My son practices Brazilian Jiu Jitsu at a Gracie Barra gym. The Gracie family perfected the sport and brought it to America. In his gym the children are promoted every month as long as they have attended 8 classes. That said, the instructor reserves the right to withhold a promotion for a child that is not working up to ability. A promotion means leveling up 5 stripes a belt and then a belt. If a child has been practicing his whole childhood he will easily be a blue belt at 6 years old. He can't be a blue belt before 16 when he joins the adult black belt program. The black belt is awarded strictly on merit regardless of number of classes. They work the children's classes the way they do to encourage them to keep coming so that maybe BJJ will become a lifelong hobby. A child cannot earn a black belt in BJJ. I really like the promotion strategy here, it keeps the kids involved and I feel like Ds is earning his level, not just buying it. We have a friend whose daughter "earned" a black belt in TKD at 10 years old after just a few years of instruction. In my opinion, BJJ is a whole fighting system, it's the best of the martial arts. My son learns to fight on his feet as well as on the ground, with the focus on the ground because that's where most fights end up anyway. He is learning to defend himself not just make pretty motions. No offense to any other martial art, I haven't been exposed to the other martial arts that much.

 

ETA: This school doesn't charge for promotion or belt. Our previous school charged $25 per test and belt.

[myfunnybunch]

Tuition for a class pays for the teacher to spend an hour instructing, just as if the child takes an art, language or academic class. A black (or any color) belt isn't an award for taking the class. It signifies that one has mastered the skills necessary to progress to the that belt level; if you don't master the skills and pass the test, you don't get the belt.

 

Test fees depend on the dojo and the association with which the dojo is affliliated. The fees help pay for the test facility and for the many testers, time spent to fill out the certificates and do the evaluations (at our dojo, each participant gets an individual evaluation session), new belts, association fees (both for the individual and for the dojo). The black belt testing at our dojo is quite involved and takes quite a bit of time and attention on the part of the instructors. And since the dojo is a business, I expect there's some left over as profit so that the owner can pay her house payment and buy food and such.

 

At our dojo, there is a scholarship fund and ways for families to trade work for test fees or class tuition. They hold a fundraiser or two each year for the scholarship fund, but it is very low-key, no pressure. People only participate if they want to. Any child...individual...who spent the years of time and effort to work toward their black belt and was ready to earn it would get financial help to achieve their goal. We know of one family who had lost jobs (both parents) and earned the tuition and fees by helping at the front desk and by doing building maintenance, for example.

 

It's just part of participating in this particular sport. Adults are involved in martial arts as often as children. We chose martial arts for this reason, as a matter of fact, and my dh participates with my boys. Participating in a family sport that teaches self-control and character development in addition to physical skill development has been invaluable for my impulsive restless boys. If we can afford it, why not?

 

Cat

[ocelotmom]

Testing fee is, IMO, totally fair. Every dojo I've been to has had them, and I wouldn't consider any of them McDojos. Testing fees cover the costs associated with the test, and it's fairer to pay the fee when testing than as part of the monthly payment because, in a good school, not everyone is going to progress at the same rate.

 

Say lessons cost $50 a month, with $10 of that earmarked for the testing fee. Student A and Student B attend the same number of times, but student A is more coordinated/in better shape to begin with/whatever. Student A tests for a belt at 1 month, while student B tests at 3 months. Student A is paying $10 for the test, while student B is paying $30.

 

Isn't just requiring $10 for the test more fair?

 

(The situation from the previous post where the test fee was only mentioned at the last minute is not reasonable. If you know months to years in advance what is expected, you have time to save up. But $500 at the last minute is not reasonably possible for many families, especially those who may be sacrificing to have their kids in the program already.)

[Lawana]

In our system, below brown belt, there are no tests for belt promotions for kids. The instructor observes when the skills have been learned. There is a very short test for brown belt, and a more extensive test for red belt, but no fee is charged for either. For the black belt test (an 8 hour grueling affair) there is a fee of $300. But it includes a full heavy duty uniform, with custom striping and lettering, a full hand dyed fighting uniform, also with lettering, and an emboidered black belt. I think that eats up most of the fee right there.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

When I did karate, the tests were not administered by one of the school's teachers. We had to fly someone in, from Japan. Yup, there were fees! But it was easy to see where the money was going. Airline tickets, food, hotels, etc.

Now that group goes to New York, instead of Japan, and fees are a lot less.

[Jennifer in MI]

Ours has minimal testing fees. The fee covers the cost of the gym (our is in a local community gym that the instructor rents out). Our boys' instructor also pays the black belt judges (minimal - basically, it covers their gas and lunch).

 

The black belt testing fee is $150. That covers the same things - but the testing is over two days. One of the days is 8 hours long!

 

I think those fees are totally reasonable and they are spelled out when you first start as a white belt.

[Jenny in Florida]

It was kind of like when my daughter did dance and all then I had to pay a fee for her to be in the recital. I had payed for the class, I had payed for the costume and all the gas money for 11 months three times a week getting her back and forth. Isn't that what she worked for? Now I have to pay so she can participate?

 

As someone else pointed out, tuition pays for the teacher's time and the rent or mortgage on the building where classes are held and the costs of administration for the dance (or martial arts) school. Most dance schools I know of rent a theatre for the recital, which costs them money. They also have to pay the teachers to be there with the kids. If they rent a professional theatre space, they frequently must pay to have the tech staff present.

 

My daughter and I were looking into renting a small, local theatre recently. In addition to the rental fees, we would have been required to hire their light and sound person. And I know the large theatre where my son's dance school used to hold their recital also required renters to hire the union stagehands.

 

The last couple of years my son was at the pre-professional dance school, they went to a system of charging an all-in-one recital fee that included the costumes and theatre fees. And they offered a discounted rate if your child took more than one class that had you paying just for the extra costumes. All of the fees were listed on the registration form at the beginning of the year, and we paid the recital fees in increments along with regular montly tuition.

 

I liked that much better than getting hit with extras multiple times during the year.

 

I'm not saying it's inexpensive. And I understand how frustrating it would be to have a child want to participate and not be able to do so for financial reasons. I just think it is important to have some understanding of the costs involved for the schools.

 

Also, every organization with which my kids have been active has offered scholarships for kids who could not otherwise participate. So, there are opportunities out there, often, for folks who ask.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Jenny in Florida

[Desert Rat]

Most activities have prices. We factor in the extra costs that are associated with taekwondo (in our case). We do the same for soccer. There's the up front registration fee but later in the season there's coach's gifts, picture fees, trophy/party fees. It's all part of participating.

I don't have a problem with the testing fees. They are finite and optional. Yes, if you don't pay for the testing you can still test and earn that rank but you wouldn't get a new belt/certificate. You would still be recognized however.

We love our TKD instructor and it's something both our boys enjoy participating in. So, for us, it's a price worth paying. Just to see the pride on their faces when they earn the next level is enough for me.

[MrsMe]

Ours is a separate fee. Yes, it's too much, yes, children's activites are out of control. My dd is a recommended black for 2 years now. (sigh), although I suppose it's good that's she's not ready to test, since we don't have the money right now for her to get her black belt.

 

But these are no different than "invite the entire class" birthday parties, jumping castles, catered food for such events that parents have every.single.year. Not to mention other sporting events that take up every evening and weekend and Sundays sometimes as well.

 

It think it's all out of control. Karate for us is one of those few things that is ONLY twice a week thing (which I think is too much) and every two months, a Saturday.

 

Nothing is for fun anymore. Good thing I only have one child.

[rafiki]

.

[Rosy]

I think in most activities, the monthly fee covers the instruction costs and the extra fees are for anything above and beyond. In karate in particular, a good dojo is not on a specific timetable for promotion--they will promote when a student has learned the necessary skills for that belt. In a school that works that way, including the promotion costs in with the monthly fees would mean that a student who promotes less often is paying for a student who promotes more often. Just like in dance class there are some kids who can't be in the recital, those kids shouldn't have to pay for the kids who do perform.

 

I do object to a dojo that says "$6000 to get your black belt" or something like that, where you're basically guaranteed a black belt after a certain amount of $$ and/or training. Some students will not be ready for a black belt after $6000 worth of training. Also, in our school, getting a black belt earns you the "sensei" title, so skill alone is not the only thing considered. They also look at how often you compete in tournaments and how well you do, how you conduct yourself in the dojo, how you treat the lower belts, how you respond to correction, etc.

 

A good dojo should be able to tell you up front all the costs involved with promotions--no one should be surprised at a $350 belt test. That said, I don't think such costs are necessarily wrong.

[TracieT]

I used to do Shotokan karate. It was like 30 or 40 a month for three trainings a week. I honestly can't remember if there was a testing fee! They did tests a few times a year and you'd also go to a clinic with one of the big sinseis before the testing. I'm wondering if maybe there was a clinic fee. You didn't have to go to the clinic, it just looked better, probably. :) If there is a bigger fee for a black belt, I have no clue. It took a LONG time to get there. (I wasn't even close) I never heard of anything like that, but it's possible. I honestly doubt it, though.

[AnitaMcC]

Our Kung Fu school does charge fees for testing. Below black belt it is around $40. Jr Black Belt is about $100, Youth Black Belt for Dd was $250 (broken up in 4 tests). I don't know what the adult testing fee is.

 

Our kids earn the novice black belt and it is a minimum of a year to be able to test for the black belt of the age group. So parents do have the opportunity to save the money in that year. Also since there are 4 stages of the black belt test, the fee is also paid in stages. Also, if a parent truly can't afford the fees, the Sifu has given alternatives for them (such as work in the school, fund raise, etc). We pay $200 a month in tuition for four kids and Dh to take classes. Sparing gear is $250 a set and sparing is optional unless going for black belt, so no biggie. I have bought Dd more gear than the boys and the boys share the gear. Dd goes through foot pads every 6 months-LOL. That is only $25 to replace them. Her Sifu usually gives Dd free uniforms as she works at the school so much. Her weapons can cost a bit, but also since she is so dedicated she often gets these at cost (nothing over $50) or free. She was given a really nice broad sword by a Sifu who has been teaching her Wushu.

 

We are moving to Scranton, PA in a month. We found a Kung Fu school that Dd really likes. It is different there. It is more traditional Kung Fu and the Sifu is not in it for money (he says). I think he has 50 students in his school and about half of them are not "serious" students. He is taking Dd on as one of his serious students. My three boys will also be attending classes but I doubt they will be serious so they will not get any intensive lessons with the Sifu. There is no additional fee or tuition for him to teach Dd. He teaches for the love of teaching. And if I remember right when we visited his school... he said that there are no testing fees.

 

Dd's competitions are costly (especially travel and hotel), but the tuition of the Kung Fu training is not that bad. I find the tuition for all four of the kids to be cheaper in the long run than if they were enrolled in organized sports. At least I am not required to fund raise nor volunteer my time so my kids can participate (on top of registration fees, uniform and equipment fees).

Edited June 28, 2011 by AnitaMcC