plain jane Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I started this thread on the Writing Workshop subforum and I'm a bit panicked at the 2nd response I got. It's not at all what I was expecting. :willy_nilly: One of my big plans for next year was to read through those books with my oldest and have her do outlines a la WTM so that we can incorporate more writing into our history studies & thus cut down on the amount of separated subjects we're doing. Again, as mentioned in that thread, I was not taught formal outlining in school (I know, just were exactly did I go to school? :toetap05:) so I need as much hand-holding as possible. I'm wondering if that poster's experience is a common one and if my hopes of outlining from these books has been misguided? :confused: It's fine if they were, I just need to know now so I can make appropriate changes before we start up again in the fall. That said: What do I do?? :willy_nilly: :lol: What would be a better source to outline from? The Suzanne Strauss Art books? (ugh, another expensive set :svengo:) And then, what on earth am I going to do with my expensive Oxford Ancients series... :blink: FTR, I don't own all of them, but did get the 5 topics I thought would be most interesting for dd to delve deeper into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I know nothing about those books, but you can outline from just about anything. When my kids are in 3rd to 4th or 5th (depends on the child), I search for simple articles (typically 3) online on topics they are reading about in either science or history and they outline from them and then write from their outlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Did you read any of the books yet? Some chapters do have more of a storyish character to them, while others are more of a chronological nature. You can skip a chapter if necessary or only outline part of a chappter. The books are fabulous so don't switch series!!!!!!! Do what 8FillTheHeart recommends if you need to find simpler articles to outline as you begin. I'll bet by halfway through the year your dd will be able to outline the more complicated World in Ancient Times chapters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Plain Jane - I think it's good to outline from multiple sources. I have plans on using the World in Ancient Times as well as Suzanne Art books as well as any other books of interest. It's nice to have a set that's outlinable but I think it's also helpful to use several different sources. I think in WTM SWB suggests to have DC to pick something of interest from Kingfisher/USB, research that topic, and then pick a source to outline and re-write. If I have some time later, I will outline a page from World in Ancient Times and a Suzanne Strauss Art book and see how it goes for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I don't know about outlining just a page from the World in Ancient Times books. I think a section might be easier to outline. Then again, dd reads an entire selection first (be it a short passage, a page, two pages) then outlines the whole shebang with main idea 1, main idea 2, main idea 3 etc (with sub headings as I deem necessary). She doesn't outline paragraph by paragraph. She had already learned the basics of outlining before we started homeschooling this past school year which has made my life easier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Read your Oxford if you like it (I'm not familiar with it), and then use the old white Kingfisher to have him use for outlining. That's what we do-use a different spine and have dd outline from KF (usually I try to have her outline the correlating article in there to what we read in the spine, if at all possible, and if not, at least from around the same time period.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 That's where I get confused. I don't ever recall outlining paragraph by paragraph. I would outline an entire section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Gotcha. The sections in the Oxford books are multipage, going from memory since I returned them all to the library. I've read other posters talking about para-by-para outlining so I thought you were referring to that by saying a page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I can't answer you regarding those books. I bought this book that goes over outlining: http://www.amazon.com/REMEDIA-PUBLIC...8308387&sr=8-1 It was recommended in the second edition of the WTM. It teaches outlining very step by step. I used this also. Dc had a lot less resistance to outlining when filling in the blanks than when presented with a blank sheet of paper (even if I had them put the outline format on the paper.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 How old is your child? Early logic stage? No way. Use the Kingfisher instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 The books are fabulous so don't switch series!!!!!!! Do what 8FillTheHeart recommends if you need to find simpler articles to outline as you begin. I'll bet by halfway through the year your dd will be able to outline the more complicated World in Ancient Times chapters! :iagree: These are wonderful books, don't chuck them just because they don't lend themselves to multi-level paragraph-by-paragraph outlining. They're so much richer and more engaging than an encyclopedia. That's where I get confused. I don't ever recall outlining paragraph by paragraph. I would outline an entire section. :iagree: You can do a 1-level paragraph-by-paragraph outline (finding the main idea in each paragraph), or do a multi-level outline of a section or chapter as a whole, but IMHO it doesn't make much sense to try to do a multi-level outline of each paragraph in books like this. The reason books like the Kingfisher Encyclopedia lend themselves to multi-level outlining is because the information is so condensed the entries are basically just an outline in paragraph form — the student can just "unpack" the outline that's already there. Use Kingfisher or online articles (or a science textbook!) to teach outlining if you like, but use the Oxford books to teach history. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 How old is your child? Early logic stage? No way. Use the Kingfisher instead. Absolutely. And the WHITE Kingfisher, for sure. 1993 edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 You can outline from pretty much any book that's written in a narrative style. You probably don't want to attempt outlining a story such as a myth, etc., but any non-fiction work that is written in paragraphs can be broken down into an outline. If the books you mention mix in stories with fact, as SOTW does, then just outline from those sections that are not stories. I've had my son reading and outlining from SOTW through logic stage and we just don't choose the sections or portions of a section that are a story. Just outline the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Read your Oxford if you like it (I'm not familiar with it), and then use the old white Kingfisher to have him use for outlining. That's what we do-use a different spine and have dd outline from KF (usually I try to have her outline the correlating article in there to what we read in the spine, if at all possible, and if not, at least from around the same time period.) :iagree: We're using Oxford this year, too--I love the series & the way it's written, but I agree that it would be harder to outline than a more traditional encyclopedia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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