Apparently my level of expectation is to high.

[Twilight Woods]

at almost 10 y/o and according to public school standards she is a 5th grader.

 

Shouldn't she be able to alphabetize a list of words? :glare:

 

She cannot.

 

First day of school= a huge cry fest for her. I didn't even manage to teach the 5 y/o today. In fact the 5 y/o sat and stared bug eyed. She never sits.

 

According to my DD it's to hard. It, being home school.

 

I think I will be at elbow for a very long time.

[Mrs Mungo]

Has she practiced alphabetizing in the past?

[Mommyfaithe]

Start with 3 words...then 4....then 5.... Then 5 with the same first 2 letters....

Baby steps.

 

Faithe

[twoforjoy]

Shouldn't she be able to alphabetize a list of words? :glare:

 

She cannot.

 

Have you explained to her the process for doing it? It might not be that she lacks the knowledge, but just doesn't understand the process.

 

I know that I find myself assuming, all the time, that DS should be able to do things because I know he has the ability to do all the steps. I forget sometimes that if I don't actually explain the process to him, and walk him through it a few times, he may not be able to apply what he knows.

[Twilight Woods]

Has she practiced alphabetizing in the past?

 

I asked her that-if they did that in school and she said yes. BUT she said she never understood it. So I explained it to her.....several times.........AND she was able to alpha a few lists for me...BUT then I set her loose to complete 3 problems in rod & Staff [Level 3] and she took the words and did something else with them other than what the directions told her to do.

 

The list was partially alphabetized and she had to find the word that was in the wrong order.

 

This overwhelmed her. She didn't understand it. I explained it and even demonstrated the first list for her and she still couldn't do it.

 

The above happened in all the subjects we did today. If I was not "helping" her complete each one then she refused to do them or started crying and insisting she didn't understand.

 

Now granted I know it's a change for her BUT I wasn't planning on this. She threw her wall up early and after 4 hours of crying and major attitude I just put everything away and sent her to her room.

[Create Your Ritual]

Can I just say that the first few months of transition from ps to hs is very emotional ... for everyone. ;-) The expectations for learning how to alphabetize are not too high in my opinion, but as far as our ps went they really weren't being taught all of that. I found that R&S English this past year has done a solid job of teaching core things like that and when it was mixed with The Sentence Family and MCT Island we had a great deal of fun and before you know it everyone starts understanding what is expected of them. I know my dd9 last year (in 4th) struggled in my math choice initially (MM) because the level of expectations far exceeded what she had been asked to do before .. there were tears as well. Also tears with ds 8 when he didn't want to write a page worth of a story. Now they breeze through math (for the most part) and ds 8 writes 2-3 page stories willingly. I am not saying all of that to brag, but just to say that it does get better. ;-) Good luck.

[Twilight Woods]

Can I just say that the first few months of transition from ps to hs is very emotional ... for everyone. ;-) The expectations for learning how to alphabetize are not too high in my opinion, but as far as our ps went they really weren't being taught all of that. I found that R&S English this past year has done a solid job of teaching core things like that and when it was mixed with The Sentence Family and MCT Island we had a great deal of fun and before you know it everyone starts understanding what is expected of them. I know my dd9 last year (in 4th) struggled in my math choice initially (MM) because the level of expectations far exceeded what she had been asked to do before .. there were tears as well. Also tears with ds 8 when he didn't want to write a page worth of a story. Now they breeze through math (for the most part) and ds 8 writes 2-3 page stories willingly. I am not saying all of that to brag, but just to say that it does get better. ;-) Good luck.

 

Thanks. I think maybe I need to approach this in-she doesn't know enough to complete on her own? Shoudl I just assume she hasn't been taught anything and teach it like she has no prior knowledge? Is that really the best way tho?

[simka2]

Time for a car game!!!! "Mommy is going to give you 3 words. Put them in ABC order. Cat, Rat, Bat." When her younger siblings start to beat her, she will get it. Also, if she's really good at doing it audibly, but still having trouble on paper look into underlying issues.

 

We do this with numers as well. Your # is 29,812. Then they have to tell it back to me. Harder than it sounds with 4 kids in th car and mulitple number being thrown around! ;)

[In The Great White North]

Shoudl I just assume she hasn't been taught anything and teach it like she has no prior knowledge?

 

Yes.

 

Then her expectations will be clear, frustration will be low and she (and you) will be much happier. She'll let you know when she doesn't need it.

[Create Your Ritual]

Yes, as far as grammar and writing instruction go I would teach it as a new concept. The nice thing is though at her age she will breeze through it fairly quickly. I am not kidding you when I say that my dd9 didn't even know her multip. tables fully when I pulled her out for 4th. We worked with it over the summer and moved into MM and now she is doing long division, multi digit multip, fractions, etc. Also, she ONLY knew about nouns and verbs .. by the time we were done with Sentence Family and MCT Island she was doing 4 part sentence analysis telling me parts of speech, parts of a sentence, any prepositional phrases, etc. That darn curric. was so easy even my 7 year old was doing it well.

 

As an example I am using BFSU K-2 science curric. this summer. Although it's geared towards younger kids, I still think if I ever wanted to use BFSU 3-5 Level II I would have to do the lower level just so the concepts are concreted in. I sort of feel like if they are learning something, it doesn't matter what level it is... just meet them where they are and once they get it they will fly through.

[Mrs Mungo]

Are you doing grade 5 Rod and Staff? Has she been in public school up until this point? If yes to both of those? It will be too advanced for her, imo. I would not do Rod and Staff *at all* the first year.

 

Take it *down* a couple of notches, at least your first year. I would suggest Junior Analytical Grammar to help bring her up to speed.

 

Just the opinion of a definite grammar snob. ;)

[simka2]

I asked her that-if they did that in school and she said yes. BUT she said she never understood it. So I explained it to her.....several times.........AND she was able to alpha a few lists for me...BUT then I set her loose to complete 3 problems in rod & Staff [Level 3] and she took the words and did something else with them other than what the directions told her to do.

 

The list was partially alphabetized and she had to find the word that was in the wrong order.

 

This overwhelmed her. She didn't understand it. I explained it and even demonstrated the first list for her and she still couldn't do it.

 

The above happened in all the subjects we did today. If I was not "helping" her complete each one then she refused to do them or started crying and insisting she didn't understand.

 

Now granted I know it's a change for her BUT I wasn't planning on this. She threw her wall up early and after 4 hours of crying and major attitude I just put everything away and sent her to her room.

 

How much of a break between ps and homeschool? This sounds a lot like my kids when they first came home. Even today I had to have ds bring me his diagrammed sentences one at a time. He knows his stuff. He knows how to diagram but since we just intoduced a new kind of adverb it was as if suddenly forgot what a predicate was:glare:. The key is to catch it fast. Don't let them do 5 things wrong and then say, "All of these are wrong. Here let me sit and do this with you." Sit and do one, have her bring the next, check and talk, go back and do the next and then bring it to you. I hope that made sense.

[....]

I always tell this story. I pulled my two oldest kids from public school. The FIRST day of homeschooling, I asked my son to do one task on his own. He threw his pencil on the floor, threw himself on the floor and against the wall, got up, ran THROUGH the house into his bedroom, slammed the door and screamed.

 

:eek: I was like, "What the heck?????"

 

They get used to homeschooling. Seriously. He hasn't done anything like that since that summer and this is our third year homeschooling. My kids are working on stuff independently this afternoon and I hear no complaints.

 

They get really used to it. When you homeschool, they can't blend into the woodwork while 25 other kids answer the question. It's all on them to perform and it takes a while for them to transition to that.

[Create Your Ritual]

How long has it been since you pulled her from ps? I wasn't sure since for us we are at the end of our school year which typically starts again in August. If it's only been a little while I would perhaps allow for a bit of time to decompress. I am not certain of the 'reasons' for bringing them home, but for my dd9 there was a lot of trauma to work through and she just needed to take a break for a bit. We started back last Aug. having only worked on math through the summer, it was AWFUL until about December ... then things just turned around and the expectation level that I now have seems less daunting to her ... it's just expected now. ;-) Anyway, I certainly don't know what your specific situation is, but I give you lots of hugs and know how frustrating it is to try to work with multip. children and have a day like that. ;-)

[heartosunshine]

I always tell this story. I pulled my two oldest kids from public school. The FIRST day of homeschooling, I asked my son to do one task on his own. He threw his pencil on the floor, threw himself on the floor and against the wall, got up, ran THROUGH the house into his bedroom, slammed the door and screamed.

 

:eek: I was like, "What the heck?????"

 

They get used to homeschooling. Seriously. He hasn't done anything like that since that summer and this is our third year homeschooling. My kids are working on stuff independently this afternoon and I hear no complaints.

 

They get really used to it. When you homeschool, they can't blend into the woodwork while 25 other kids answer the question. It's all on them to perform and it takes a while for them to transition to that.

 

:lol:

 

My kids weren't as dramatic, but close! :D They do get used to it.

[simka2]

I always tell this story. I pulled my two oldest kids from public school. The FIRST day of homeschooling, I asked my son to do one task on his own. He threw his pencil on the floor, threw himself on the floor and against the wall, got up, ran THROUGH the house into his bedroom, slammed the door and screamed.

 

:eek: I was like, "What the heck?????"

 

They get used to homeschooling. Seriously. He hasn't done anything like that since that summer and this is our third year homeschooling. My kids are working on stuff independently this afternoon and I hear no complaints.

 

They get really used to it. When you homeschool, they can't blend into the woodwork while 25 other kids answer the question. It's all on them to perform and it takes a while for them to transition to that.

 

That's awesome! I remember posting a thread on here along the lines of, "Should my son really be throwing a 2 hr tantrum, complete with screaming and throwing himself on the floor....as an 8 yr old?" ;)

[goldberry]

DD12, just finished our first year of homeschooling. She would have times she would look at problems that I knew she had covered and say, "I have never seen this before! I have no idea what to do or what they are talking about!" And yes, often accompanied by the throwing down of the pencil.

 

The first few times I wasted valuable energy arguing that "Yes you HAVE seen it!" Later I learned to say, "OK", very calmly and approach it like something new. She would usually stop me after a little bit, "Ok, I remember now."

 

I have no idea why she gets so mad or defensive about it. I just know the fastest way to get through it.

[sassyscrapperinid]

I always tell this story. I pulled my two oldest kids from public school. The FIRST day of homeschooling, I asked my son to do one task on his own. He threw his pencil on the floor, threw himself on the floor and against the wall, got up, ran THROUGH the house into his bedroom, slammed the door and screamed.

 

:eek: I was like, "What the heck?????"

 

They get used to homeschooling. Seriously. He hasn't done anything like that since that summer and this is our third year homeschooling. My kids are working on stuff independently this afternoon and I hear no complaints.

 

They get really used to it. When you homeschool, they can't blend into the woodwork while 25 other kids answer the question. It's all on them to perform and it takes a while for them to transition to that.

 

I am not very familiar with your story, but I wanted to ask if dd has had time to de-school?? I think that she may just need a little time to transition. Maybe you could start with some more interest led learning that is fun and not so much table work? Maybe spend the summer just doing an awesome nature study? Just a thought.....:001_smile:

[Twilight Woods]

Are you doing grade 5 Rod and Staff? Has she been in public school up until this point? If yes to both of those? It will be too advanced for her, imo. I would not do Rod and Staff *at all* the first year.

 

Take it *down* a couple of notches, at least your first year. I would suggest Junior Analytical Grammar to help bring her up to speed.

 

Just the opinion of a definite grammar snob. ;)

 

No we are doing level 3. 5 would have been over her head.

[ChrissySC]

OK, you are not alone. :) We did R&S 3 in the 4th grade this year. LOL I promise that if you shorten the lessons and repeat them that it will get better.

 

For example, lesson one we read one day and worked on the first five oral questions. Dd completed the first two of the written. I explained why they were wrong. We would read again the next day, and complete the next few oral questions. I divided up the oral and written over three to four days in the beginning. We moved to lesson two and performed in the same manner. The third week, we would read lesson one and complete the written exercises independently, usually over two days. We would do lesson two again, in the same manner. We would do lessons three and four over the next two weeks beginning and ending in the same way as one and two. Are you confused? I began slowly decreasing the time and increasing the work. We would read and do all of the oral one day. We would complete all of the written the next day. Finally, we moved to a lesson a day. :D Funny thing is that with all of the lack of understanding instruction and not understanding that she had to actually do work (ps problem?) that she did great on the tests! Gah, seriously, she scored 88 or higher. I think it was getting accustomed to using a book!

 

Eventually, dd was accustomed to the "work". We are almost finished with book 3. Funny thing, she is ready for book 4, and has been for some time. LOL I want her to be familiar with how the book teaches and what it expects from a student.

 

Now, she smiles happily and wants more books and less "living books." She likes that textbookie approach. I am so glad that history and science had classically similar option with MOH and ES. What did I create?

[Mrs Mungo]

No we are doing level 3. 5 would have been over her head.

 

Even so. Rod and Staff grammar is so overwhelming. Again, I'm a grammar snob, I think grammar is extremely important. But, I did a lot of it out loud with my kids the year we used it. I think there are programs that do the job with less heartache.

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

Here are some easy alphabetizing helps, they assign numbers for each letter and you just put things in numerical order. (Spaces count as zeros, man is 13,1,14,0 but manly is 13,1,14,12,25) She could also watch my alphabetizing and dictionary use movie, phonics lesson #30. You would be amazed how many people were not explicitly taught to alphabetize.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/Resources/alphabethelps1a.pdf

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/Resources/alphabethelps2a.pdf

[Twilight Woods]

Thanks everyone! I feel better.

 

The reason why I am starting now is b/c we actually have a some-what busy July. AND I KNOW how she is. It' s going to be a difficult transition so I want her ready by the time "school" is suppose to start b/c we are doing a lot of remediation. PLUS she is asking to start. :confused:

 

This morning she woke me up at 8am asking why the teacher [me] wasn't up before her getting ready for school. :glare:

 

It's gonna be a long process I just need to pull my britches up and put on my man panties, ;) so the sobbing doesn't bother me.

 

Turns out tho my 5 y/o is very compassionate. She told me I should take a coffee break after 30 mins of DD #1 crying.

[Twilight Woods]

How much of a break between ps and homeschool? This sounds a lot like my kids when they first came home. Even today I had to have ds bring me his diagrammed sentences one at a time. He knows his stuff. He knows how to diagram but since we just intoduced a new kind of adverb it was as if suddenly forgot what a predicate was:glare:. The key is to catch it fast. Don't let them do 5 things wrong and then say, "All of these are wrong. Here let me sit and do this with you." Sit and do one, have her bring the next, check and talk, go back and do the next and then bring it to you. I hope that made sense.

 

How long has it been since you pulled her from ps? I wasn't sure since for us we are at the end of our school year which typically starts again in August. If it's only been a little while I would perhaps allow for a bit of time to decompress. I am not certain of the 'reasons' for bringing them home, but for my dd9 there was a lot of trauma to work through and she just needed to take a break for a bit. We started back last Aug. having only worked on math through the summer, it was AWFUL until about December ... then things just turned around and the expectation level that I now have seems less daunting to her ... it's just expected now. ;-) Anyway, I certainly don't know what your specific situation is, but I give you lots of hugs and know how frustrating it is to try to work with multip. children and have a day like that. ;-)

 

 

About a week break. We are doing R&S orally and on the white board. I am only requiring a few problems written down.

[mcconnellboys]

My younger son, who has some dysgraphia issues, found learning to alphabetize very difficult.... It took a lot of practice for him to get in the hang of it....

[LittleIzumi]

About a week break. We are doing R&S orally and on the white board. I am only requiring a few problems written down.

 

I would definitely be deschooling a lot after only a week break from PS. I might cry too there :lol:

[Paz]

I hate to admit this but I am not sure if either of my college aged kids can alphabetize. :confused: My dd is dyslexic and while she now reads on a grade level and scored a 99 percent in comprehension on her college placement test, I am not sure if she can recite the alphabet even while singing the song. My ds was never diagnosed dyslexic but he shows some of the signs, and he is an English major. My dh hired them to work for him one summer while they were in junior high. Part of the work was putting his files in order. The whole alphabetizing concept escaped them. We had worked on this with our school work in the past but aparently it never carried over into real life.

[Love_to_Read]

You might also try writing the words on notecards (could be vocab words with definitions on the back, could be cut out of regular cheap paper...) and laying them out, and teaching her to explicitly look for the ones that start with a, then b, then c...ah-ha there's two that start with d, so sing the alphabet until you figure out which of the second letters comes first...

 

In other words, hand-on is a good approach for us before translating to working out of the book in most of our subjects. :)

[Twilight Woods]

Thank you everyone!