caaaaaatttt - what word is that?

[MeganW]

My kids can sound out anything, but figuring out what the word is after sounding it out is a whole different beast! Any thoughts? Some of these are words that they have been sounding out for ages - at some point shouldn't they *know* that C-A-T says "cat" without having to sound it out?

[abbeyej]

Totally normal. Really. Annoying as all get-out ;), but totally normal.

 

Playing oral blending games can help. "Guess what I'm saying: rrrrrr / [pause one sec] / aaaaaaa / [pause one sec] / mmmmmmm" etc. Play them in the car or while waiting in line...

 

But some of it is just time and development. And yes, it takes a while for (many) kids to figure out that the word they've sounded out three times already on this page is still the same one when they sound it out for the fourth time. ;) ...

 

So you give them chocolate chips to keep them motivated -- and swipe a few for yourself to try to stay sane until they move on to the next phase of learning to read. :)

[angela in ohio]

It's a developmental step, and you can't rush it. You can keep giving them practice, practice, and more practice, but they won't make that leap (and it's such a big, fun leap, its worth the wait) until their brains are ready. :001_smile:

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I have heard that kids need instant feedback right away. They read something, then you say, "Ok, now its my turn." and then you read it to them. It helps them to put language together when they are sounding every single word out. Try that! I bet it will help :001_smile:

[Heather in VA]

Totally normal. Really. Annoying as all get-out ;), but totally normal.

 

Playing oral blending games can help. "Guess what I'm saying: rrrrrr / [pause one sec] / aaaaaaa / [pause one sec] / mmmmmmm" etc. Play them in the car or while waiting in line...

 

But some of it is just time and development. And yes, it takes a while for (many) kids to figure out that the word they've sounded out three times already on this page is still the same one when they sound it out for the fourth time. ;) ...

 

So you give them chocolate chips to keep them motivated -- and swipe a few for yourself to try to stay sane until they move on to the next phase of learning to read. :)

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I especially agree with the 'annoying as all get out' part. My first two sailed through this stage. My youngest stayed there so long I still have the bruises from where I constantly smacked my head on a wall. I thought it would never go away. Then one day - wham. She could read.

 

Meanwhile... chocolate is the way to go :-)

 

BTW - does your siggy really say that you had triplets and then less than 18 months later had another baby? I'd say Chocolate of the Month club would be appropriate :-)

 

Heather

[boscopup]

Yep, normal. Blending is something that clicks one day for many kids. You might take a break for a couple weeks and come back to it. That might get some of them over the hump. It really is a game of patience.

[MeganW]

BTW - does your siggy really say that you had triplets and then less than 18 months later had another baby? I'd say Chocolate of the Month club would be appropriate :-)

 

Heather

 

Yeah, and since the big kids are a little delayed, and the youngest is smart as a whip, I have FOUR kids in this sounding-it-out-but-have-no-clue stage. I'm so glad other people think it is painful too! I was trying not to admit it, but I am NOT enjoying this part of homeschooling!!! :)

[Carol in Cal.]

100 EZ Lessons got us over this exact hump with their instruction, "OK, now say it fast!"

[KristenR]

I feel you on this. My dd had such an early interest in learning how to read but we seemed to stay in that sounding-out phase for a looooooong time. Eventually I came up with a neat little game for her that got her to understand the concept of blending. I wrote about it here. I called it our "Consonant Blender".

In hindsight I might have added an additional space for a third letter down the road. We are about halfway through OPGTR and I still pop out this Blender for a fun visual.

[angela in ohio]

Yeah, and since the big kids are a little delayed, and the youngest is smart as a whip, I have FOUR kids in this sounding-it-out-but-have-no-clue stage. I'm so glad other people think it is painful too! I was trying not to admit it, but I am NOT enjoying this part of homeschooling!!! :)

 

I guess the silver lining is that you will get through it all at once, instead of dragging it out. I thought once potty training was over, life would be easy. But there are those months there in the middle of teaching a child to read that make you crazy. :glare:

[kristinannie]

Here is a fun game from my Struggling Reader program I bought that would work really well with you since you have more kids to play it! Sit in a circle. Say three sounds. Then have the kids pass a ball to each other (throwing or rolling). Each kid says one of the sounds (the first kid says ccccc, the second aaaa, the third ttttt). Then pass the ball to one of the kids and have them say the word. It is a fun way to learn blending.

[KristenR]

Here is a fun game from my Struggling Reader program I bought that would work really well with you since you have more kids to play it! Sit in a circle. Say three sounds. Then have the kids pass a ball to each other (throwing or rolling). Each kid says one of the sounds (the first kid says ccccc, the second aaaa, the third ttttt). Then pass the ball to one of the kids and have them say the word. It is a fun way to learn blending.

 

 

Oh that sounds like fun!!! I'll have to remember that one!

[PeterPan]

Megan, I'll just be the evil voice of dissent here for a minute. Did you say your triplets have some issues with apraxia? And they've done VT or had other therapy needs? Maybe it wasn't apraxia but an overall developmental delay? I get people confused. In any case, while it *can* be normal, I think this is also a stage where mommy-radar starts to go off telling you it's NOT normal. And we're not in your room to know the difference. There could actually be issues with working memory, how they're processing visually or auditorily, dyslexia, etc. And that's how it would show up at this age.

 

So I wouldn't get freaky, but if I'm remembering correctly and your kids DO have some other issues, then I would do some searching for those answers. If it's only reading, it's only reading. However if it's auditory processing or working memory or something else, it's going to show up in other facets of life too. Some of those things have therapy options, and some do better with a curriculum change. (LiPs, SWR, etc.). Just depends on what's actually going on.

[MerryAtHope]

We used to play "say it slow" and "say it fast," and practice saying the word fast. Another thing you can do is play oral blending games--say 3 sounds & have them blend the sounds and then say them fast to make a word. My kids loved to say 3 sounds and have me blend them into a word too--mainly because their sounds made nonsense words, LOL! But that's good too, it helps them think about how sounds work.

 

Hang in there, I know it's a frustrating stage! Merry :-)

[Guest]

I am SO glad I am not the only one! I thought there was something wrong with my son. I am so relieved to know he will get past this. WHat I find odd, though is I can sound out a word from a list on the page and he can point to the word correctly ever time. He just cannot do the blending part on his own.

[ecj98]

Give it time. I thought DS was going to do that FOREVER, but one day it clicked and he started actually reading.

[merry gardens]

Megan, I'll just be the evil voice of dissent here for a minute. Did you say your triplets have some issues with apraxia? And they've done VT or had other therapy needs? Maybe it wasn't apraxia but an overall developmental delay? I get people confused. In any case, while it *can* be normal, I think this is also a stage where mommy-radar starts to go off telling you it's NOT normal. And we're not in your room to know the difference. There could actually be issues with working memory, how they're processing visually or auditorily, dyslexia, etc. And that's how it would show up at this age.

 

So I wouldn't get freaky, but if I'm remembering correctly and your kids DO have some other issues, then I would do some searching for those answers. If it's only reading, it's only reading. However if it's auditory processing or working memory or something else, it's going to show up in other facets of life too. Some of those things have therapy options, and some do better with a curriculum change. (LiPs, SWR, etc.). Just depends on what's actually going on.

I posted so Elizabeth won't be the only voice of decent. (Hi Elizabeth)Dyslexia affects somewhere around 10-20% of the population.

 

At this age, (and knowing what I know now), I'd continue working on sounding things out, but I'd also be on the lookout for problems. Can they rhyme? Can they identify words that start with the same letter sounds--that they haven't memorized? (People with strong memories can often hide reading problems longer.)

 

For some kids it just takes longer, but for some it just doesn't click normally. If it is still not clicking after having worked with it a lot, I'd look at some of the things Elizabeth mentioned. If they can't rhyme or identify same sounds in other words, I'd especially watch for phonemic awareness problems. My son had phonemic processing problems and could not detect smaller sounds within words. He had a terrible time sounding things out until we remediated that problem.

 

If there are problems, there are ways to remediate, but it's far easier to do it when the child is younger. The longer problems go, the more likely the child is to develop ineffective coping mechanisms.

[MeganW]

Megan, I'll just be the evil voice of dissent here for a minute. Did you say your triplets have some issues with apraxia? And they've done VT or had other therapy needs? Maybe it wasn't apraxia but an overall developmental delay? I get people confused. In any case, while it *can* be normal, I think this is also a stage where mommy-radar starts to go off telling you it's NOT normal. And we're not in your room to know the difference. There could actually be issues with working memory, how they're processing visually or auditorily, dyslexia, etc. And that's how it would show up at this age.

 

So I wouldn't get freaky, but if I'm remembering correctly and your kids DO have some other issues, then I would do some searching for those answers. If it's only reading, it's only reading. However if it's auditory processing or working memory or something else, it's going to show up in other facets of life too. Some of those things have therapy options, and some do better with a curriculum change. (LiPs, SWR, etc.). Just depends on what's actually going on.

 

Yep, that's us. Two kids with vision problems - we are on the waiting list for vision therapy. One of these two is in physical therapy, the other in occupational therapy. The one in OT has been described by more than one therapist as having "processing issues", but they have all recommended that we get through VT & see where we are before pursuing that. Both of these two struggle with mild apraxia that seems to have dramatically improved with NN fish oil.

 

I have already held these kids back one year (they were 5 1/2 last fall and slated to go to kindergarten), so I hate for them to get even further behind their same age peers, so despite the vision issues, I have tried to press on with the reading. We don't bother with books, b/c that just isn't happening when a kid sees double - I write really really big on the whiteboard.

[PeterPan]

Megan, here's what I would do, and you see what you think. I would TEACH THEM like they're dyslexic. Just assume they are. 75% of children with apraxia also turn out to have dyslexia. If they DON'T have dyslexia, no biggee, won't hurt them one bit. But if they do, you might as well start teaching them now that way. And I totally agree with you that you should and can be doing something. But I'd change what you're doing.

 

Don't do anymore sounding out. I would research some on your options for an OG-based method for use with dyslexics. There's SWR, WRTR, Barton, AAS (and the new reading program also from AAS), and Wilson. Like Merry said, I think you need to back up and look at phonemic awareness. That is something you can do with less use of the eyes and visual processing. You can do it orally, kinesthetically, etc, no writing. Barton has a pre-test on their site, and you need to do that with your kids. That will help you determine if you need to back up even farther and do some of the LiPs programs and whatnot Merry was talking about. Dyslexia typically has an auditory and a visual component. Whether your kids have both components or one and to what degree remains to be seen. But the point is you can explore that whole avenue without wrangling with visual processing so much. Don't try to have them read words. Do the SWR/WRTR approach of having them SPELL words, and do it ALOUD. So they're going to spell words starting in list A and keep going, all while you're in VT. Then, with the VT under your belt, you'll start over, writing the phonograms and words.

 

So there is a lot you can do. However I think you're going to need to change tracks and get into materials that dig deeper into the areas where these kids are struggling. A regular phonics program isn't going to get you there.

 

This does NOT have to be bad, and your sweet peas WILL learn to read. Things that seem like forever now are going to be past and smoothed over later. You have access to so many good programs that are aimed at kids with dyslexia and processing problems, there's no need to stay with a conventional route. Like I told myself when I started my dd with WRTR/SWR years ago: I wasn't SURE if she was going to end up like dh (who I knew had problems, just not the name), but I was sure it wouldn't HURT her to teach her like she did. And I'm forever thankful, FOREVER THANKFUL, I started that way. Get an OG-family approach. Just make the change. And does as much as you can auditorily until you have more VT under your belts. It was the very first thing our COVD doc asked when we walked in the door.

Edited May 18, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[TracyR]

Yup , totally annoying stage. I was able to get past that with my last daughter. Taught her to read words by showing her what they are.

She also knows phonics. She will tap her arm in different places. C -top of her arm, A-the middle of her arm, T- the end then she slides her hand from top to bottom and then says cat.

If they can sound out the words then its time to just show the words and say " This is cat, say cat. This is dog, say dog."

 

My favorite program is Brillkids for this. Its marketed to babies and toddlers. But its just as excellent for young children too, who just need to see the word and say it.

[almondbutterandjelly]

My dd had to memorize about 10 sight words for her kinder class, and I thought, how is she supposed to know what each word is? she can't read! So I made flashcards with the word and a picture of that thing above it. Then we just looked at those cards a lot and she had to spell and say the word a lot. For some reason, learning sight words made something click and she began to be able to sound out words "all the way" and know what actually words they were.

[Tracy]

I just learned about a great game for this. Put a bunch of objects in a container and ask the child to find one by saying the individual sounds, like /c/. . . ./a/. . . ./t/. I did this with my kids this week, and they loved it!

[MeganW]

Megan, here's what I would do, and you see what you think. I would TEACH THEM like they're dyslexic. Just assume they are. 75% of children with apraxia also turn out to have dyslexia. If they DON'T have dyslexia, no biggee, won't hurt them one bit. But if they do, you might as well start teaching them now that way. And I totally agree with you that you should and can be doing something. But I'd change what you're doing.

 

Don't do anymore sounding out. I would research some on your options for an OG-based method for use with dyslexics. There's SWR, WRTR, Barton, AAS (and the new reading program also from AAS), and Wilson. Like Merry said, I think you need to back up and look at phonemic awareness. That is something you can do with less use of the eyes and visual processing. You can do it orally, kinesthetically, etc, no writing. Barton has a pre-test on their site, and you need to do that with your kids. That will help you determine if you need to back up even farther and do some of the LiPs programs and whatnot Merry was talking about. Dyslexia typically has an auditory and a visual component. Whether your kids have both components or one and to what degree remains to be seen. But the point is you can explore that whole avenue without wrangling with visual processing so much. Don't try to have them read words. Do the SWR/WRTR approach of having them SPELL words, and do it ALOUD. So they're going to spell words starting in list A and keep going, all while you're in VT. Then, with the VT under your belt, you'll start over, writing the phonograms and words.

 

So there is a lot you can do. However I think you're going to need to change tracks and get into materials that dig deeper into the areas where these kids are struggling. A regular phonics program isn't going to get you there.

 

This does NOT have to be bad, and your sweet peas WILL learn to read. Things that seem like forever now are going to be past and smoothed over later. You have access to so many good programs that are aimed at kids with dyslexia and processing problems, there's no need to stay with a conventional route. Like I told myself when I started my dd with WRTR/SWR years ago: I wasn't SURE if she was going to end up like dh (who I knew had problems, just not the name), but I was sure it wouldn't HURT her to teach her like she did. And I'm forever thankful, FOREVER THANKFUL, I started that way. Get an OG-family approach. Just make the change. And does as much as you can auditorily until you have more VT under your belts. It was the very first thing our COVD doc asked when we walked in the door.

 

 

This was SOOO helpful! Makes so much sense to teach them as though they are dyslexic. My mom was diagnosed as dyslexic, so that is definitely a possibility.

 

Can you tell me which of these programs is the MOST scripted? I am all about the scripted stuff so I can be confident I'm not screwing it up!

[PeterPan]

Here's the link for Barton's dyslexia page. http://www.bartonreading.com/dys.html After you read that, go to the side menu and click Barton Menu, then watch intro dvd. I'm NOT saying you should do Barton. There's just some really good free info there that will jump start your learning. Dyslexia, at its core, involves bilateral brain issues (how the two sides communicate, how we get from point A to point B, how things process), so it will continue to affect them beyond reading. That's also why there's that huge list of "other diagnoses" you can get as well, because they're literally ALL TRUE. VT helps the visual problems, but it doesn't make dyslexia go away.

 

The next thing is to go to http://www.ganderpublishing.com and start doing some reading about their products. See if any of those might help you. I haven't used them, but they're what several people in this thread have guided you to. My dd was able to glue together words after we worked on them a while. In other words, for us, the instructions in SWR were enough to get here there. For some kids the auditory processing issues are more serious and you have to back up and work on them more, more therapeutically you might say. It's not a curriculum track that solves this stuff. It's figuring out what part of the processing isn't working that isn't allowing them to go forward and then working on it. The Barton screening test will explain this and help you see how much of an issue it is with your kids.

 

After that, you're going to have to go with your gut. I wouldn't plunk out for any visually-driven program until you get some VT under your belt. I hate to tell you to spend $100, but at this point, to my mind, SWR would actually be practical for you. (IF they don't need that Gander Mountain stuff first for auditory processing!) The core book of SWR has a chapter on teaching pre-readers the phonograms that would be very helpful to you. For years Sanseri had said she was going to pull that material out into a little booklet, but I couldn't find anything like that on her website. That's really all you need right now. The bummer is that the overall methodology of SWR, once you get past that stage, will be too fast for some dyslexics. They may need to slow it down to AAS, Wilson, or even Barton (the slowest, most methodical approach of all). *All* of those programs can work for the right person. But you need to get their eyes fixed first. Until then, I would work on their phonemic awareness and how they process the sounds auditorily (Gander Mountain stuff), work on learning the phonograms (that pre-reading chapter of SWR and lots of fun activities), and then start applying the phonograms and rules orally to early words. SWR choses by frequency, where the other programs go by spelling pattern. As much as I like AAS, I don't see how a child seeing double is ready to use the tiles or flashcards or anything else, kwim? You literally need to just work on the auditory and oral side for a while.

 

Mercy, was any of that helpful? See how much you can do for free. That Barton info is all free. You might be able to find someone locally who would loan you their SWR for a couple weeks for free, just to let you read and learn there. I'm ONLY recommending it to you for the preschool/pre-reading chapter, because she has good explanations and activity ideas. I do think you need to explore the phonemic awareness and whatnot in LiPs and the other Gander Mountain products. I just haven't used them myself enough to know exactly what you need. Listen to the others here. They have trod this path. It's not about finding the perfect curriculum. It's about finding the holes in their processing so you work on them and finally get the info to process and connect. Then you come in with an OG-family curriculum to start building on that ability to process. For which one though, you really have to work through the process yourself and decide.

Edited May 18, 2011 by OhElizabeth