Help me consider the worth of SAT Subject tests.

[creekland]

I did some researching yesterday and haven't found a single school middle son wants to apply to that requires SAT Subject tests. There are a couple (Yale is one) that say they require the SAT + 2 subject tests OR the ACT. The rest don't even mention subject tests. This guy has a good ACT and I'm not completely convinced that Yale is the place for him to go (hence, don't necessarily want overkill trying to be impressive).

 

Money is also a consideration along with time spent studying for the tests themselves. He's got a pretty full summer and will be a senior next year. For his applications he'll have his ACT, 2 cc courses (As) and taking a third, plus, hopefully a good AP Stats score (unknown until he takes the test - then gets the score, but practice tests are looking very good). His letters of recommendation ought to be very good. He'll probably already be accepted at his safety school prior to when he could take the subject tests (fall).

 

Is there any particular reason why you, if you were his parent, would have him take 2 subject tests anyway? The only reason I can see would be to augment his Yale and Washington U in SL applications and since neither require the tests plus he has good scores otherwise, I'm not certain those two scores would help enough to be worth the cost and time. I'm thinking he's past the point where they consider scores and whether or not he'd be accepted would be due to "other" things. Do you agree? Or disagree?

[8filltheheart]

Well, I have 2 scurrying around getting ready to leave to take the Math2 this morning. If the schools he is interested in don't require them, then I wouldn't bother, but a lot of schools do. (the uni my oldest goes to didn't require any) http://www.monsonschools.com/guidance/sat2colleges.html

[In The Great White North]

Ga Tech is the only one we looked at that required them (from homeschoolers.) That was the last straw - ds didn't apply.

 

Reportedly, most of the kids taking the SAT are taking them right after they take the AP test. IOW, you have to do really well to get a good score. IMO, you might as well do the AP test if you're that prepared.

[creekland]

Well, I have 2 scurrying around getting ready to leave to take the Math2 this morning. If the schools he is interested in don't require them, then I wouldn't bother, but a lot of schools do. (the uni my oldest goes to didn't require any) http://www.monsonschools.com/guidance/sat2colleges.html

 

Never mind... duh, click on link before replying, not immediately afterward! Thanks for the list!

 

Edited again to say that list is not accurate as Yale does not require them if you submit an ACT. They require two if submitting the SAT.

 

I guess looking at the school's websites or the common app is still the way to go since requirements can change fairly quickly.

 

On a different note - hope your two do well!!!

Edited May 7, 2011 by creekland

[Jane in NC]

My son took AP Bio in 10th, followed by the SAT Bio subject test. This was a "just in case" strategy. Because he had taken some Duke TIP classes, we knew that Duke required applicants to take SAT subjects. Further, members of this board suggested that following the AP Bio exam with SAT subject test--as opposed to returning to the test several months or a year later. Again, just in case.

 

My son began focusing on his future major (archaeology) in 10th, but he did not really know where he was applying to college at that point. In fact, his list changed as he spoke to family friends, visited campuses, etc.

 

As it turned out, I think only one school to which he applied (BU) required either two SAT subject tests or the ACT with writing. So he never took any more of the subject tests. But he did have various sources to back up those "mommy grades" (solid ACT, AP scores, CC grades, great letters of recommendation). Here in NC, not all school districts are homeschool friendly. If a parent cannot find a school which will administer an AP exam and if a student cannot participate in dual enrollment (again--many of the CCs are bumping high school students to the end of the line), I can see SAT subject tests as further proof (should an admissions office need it) of the student's academic stature.

[In The Great White North]

Here in NC, not all school districts are homeschool friendly. If a parent cannot find a school which will administer an AP exam and if a student cannot participate in dual enrollment (again--many of the CCs are bumping high school students to the end of the line), I can see SAT subject tests as further proof (should an admissions office need it) of the student's academic stature.

 

This is a very good point. Since you sign up for the Subject tests online, the school can't say no.

[creekland]

My son took AP Bio in 10th, followed by the SAT Bio subject test. This was a "just in case" strategy. Because he had taken some Duke TIP classes, we knew that Duke required applicants to take SAT subjects. Further, members of this board suggested that following the AP Bio exam with SAT subject test--as opposed to returning to the test several months or a year later. Again, just in case.

 

My son began focusing on his future major (archaeology) in 10th, but he did not really know where he was applying to college at that point. In fact, his list changed as he spoke to family friends, visited campuses, etc.

 

As it turned out, I think only one school to which he applied (BU) required either two SAT subject tests or the ACT with writing. So he never took any more of the subject tests. But he did have various sources to back up those "mommy grades" (solid ACT, AP scores, CC grades, great letters of recommendation). Here in NC, not all school districts are homeschool friendly. If a parent cannot find a school which will administer an AP exam and if a student cannot participate in dual enrollment (again--many of the CCs are bumping high school students to the end of the line), I can see SAT subject tests as further proof (should an admissions office need it) of the student's academic stature.

 

Duke no longer requires them either if you submit an ACT. I think less and less schools are requiring them each year.

 

I fully agree that subject tests are a worthy backup of our homeschooler's transcript grades in general, but I'm thinking since we didn't do any history tests after middle son took history, math is fully accounted for with his ACT, and he has cc courses already completed (one of which is a sophomore level science course) plus a good science ACT score that he, specifically, will have passed any "score" bar they need.

 

I suspect not having the scores might hurt him at the super competitive schools, but, well, I'm ok with that. I'm also thinking it's not subject tests they would have wanted to see for more scores at those schools, but more AP tests. We're way too late to plan more of those. Our local school district doesn't offer any. The local Catholic schools offers a few. I had planned on him taking Bio, Chem, and Stats, then found out med schools wouldn't want to see Bio or Chem, so we just stuck with Stats thinking I'd use SAT subject tests for Bio and Chem. I'm still at that point wondering if we need them or not.

[AngieW in Texas]

My oldest didn't do any at all. She was only interested in one college and they don't ask for any.

 

I had my middle dd do the US History SAT-II last year just so she'd have some kind of practice taking that kind of test. It's a one-hour multiple-choice test, so it isn't that big of a deal and she'd spent the whole year working on US history. I had her finish up the history course two weeks early (by dropping the last couple of written assignments) so she could spend that time studying specifically for the test. She will probably take the Math 2 test as well, but that will be it. She's taking the AP Physics B test on Monday, but won't be taking the SAT-II for it as well. She may take the AP Calc AB test her senior year, but I'm not sure about that.

[angela in ohio]

Some of the schools dd is looking at don't require them, but they want to see "outside" verification of (especially) science classes for incoming engineering majors. I am having them take the SAT subject tests for each science, as well as math, since they may or may not take science classes outside the home. Her first choice does require them, too, so we would be doing it anyway for her. If it was going to be a lot of extra work, I might skip it, but we are using DIVE/BJU Bio this year, and she took some practice SAT-II and did very, very well before she even started the prep book. I guess if she takes it and ends up doing poorly, I might rethink my strategy. :D

[Susan C.]

We haven't done any. One in college, one close to it. It is such a pain studying for and going to tests, SAT and maybe ACT is enough. I would even be temped to go to a college that doesn't require them, then transfer to the one that does.

[Luckymama]

My son took AP Bio in 10th, followed by the SAT Bio subject test. This was a "just in case" strategy.

 

Dd16 took the History subject test this morning, the day after the AP US History test. Since she's not exactly sure where/what she'll be studying in college, she's covering all possible bases :001_smile: I don't know if she'll take the ACT. It's not as common here---ds did because he didn't take any SAT subject tests (mono last spring/summer messed things up).

[creekland]

I have to admit, it sounds really strange taking an SAT II after an AP. It seems to me the AP would be better in the eyes of college admin.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm thinking we're not going to spend money on the SAT Subject tests at this point. I looked again at info from middle son's schools and they just don't require them (some based on ACT testing) and say so in print. I've got no reason not to believe them and our hearts won't be broken if he doesn't get into the most selective schools he's trying for. He's already got other choices (nice safety schools) - just needs to do the formality of applying.

[8filltheheart]

I have to admit, it sounds really strange taking an SAT II after an AP. It seems to me the AP would be better in the eyes of college admin.

 

 

 

As strange as it sounds, there are many schools that want the SAT2 and will not consider AP scores in their place. Washington and Lee is one I know about b/c a friend's ds scrambled to take the SAT2s even though he had something like 5 APs. They wanted 5 SAT2s. http://www.wlu.edu/x49958.xml

 

I do NOT think they are necessary for all students and it doesn't sound like your child needs them. I am simply posting for others that might be reading and thinking that they don't even need to worry about them. Many of the schools we have looked into have stated something along the lines of we don't require them but we recommend them. I interpret that as meaning they might accept you w/o them, but it is probably going to be an easier process with them. :tongue_smilie:

 

For my dd, it doesn't matter b/c she is pretty much just a wanderer at this pt w/o any clear vision for her future. She'll apply to lots of schools and pick one. My ds, otoh, has a very specific vision of what he wants to do and where he wants to go. He took his first SAT2 yesterday as a 9th grader b/c we want him to have a minimum of 3 by the end of 11th.

[Jane in NC]

 

Many of the schools we have looked into have stated something along the lines of we don't require them but we recommend them. I interpret that as meaning they might accept you w/o them, but it is probably going to be an easier process with them. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

This is a good point. Websites for colleges often list minimal requirements but not the optimal list that an admissions officer wishes to see. Some parents are content to let an SAT or ACT test score alone speak for their child. Others (waving hand here) are more detailed oriented (or is that paranoid??) and submit a packet of material which allows the college to see who our child is beyond one set of numbers.

 

Admittedly, some kids interview so well that they can sell themselves without a lot of back up material.

 

May I just say that I am relieved not to have to do this process again?

[creekland]

As strange as it sounds, there are many schools that want the SAT2 and will not consider AP scores in their place. Washington and Lee is one I know about b/c a friend's ds scrambled to take the SAT2s even though he had something like 5 APs. They wanted 5 SAT2s. http://www.wlu.edu/x49958.xml

 

 

Wow! This makes me glad W&L hasn't ever been on any of my guys' top anything list. If it were, I think I'd highly discourage them. Most schools I've seen that want them are happy with 2 (easily done in one testing session). And with APs instead... all I can say is, WOW!

 

Otherwise, yes, for a student who is unsure of what they want to do or where they want to go, these seem like a nice safety net. If I had it to do over again with middle son I'd likely have him take the History tests when he finished those courses. At this point, since I'm ok with places he can already go (as is he), I don't feel like scrambling for more.

 

I will, however, have him make a point to ask this question next month when we visit one of his top choice highly selective schools and has his interview. He'll have his current transcript in hand with next year penciled in and see what they say. If they say he'd look better with a couple of tests, then middle son can decide if he wants that school to remain #1 or not. Nothing is written in stone just yet. FWIW, this school is one that plainly says in black and white that they do not require them even on info they've specifically sent him knowing he's a homeschooler.

[Starr]

Many of the private schools will take a good ACT in lieu of SAT and Subject tests. These schools are really looking for subject tests in math and science.