Am I Reading This Correctly? Writing section in the WTM

[MadSci Mama]

Hoping to reach a concensus among us here.

 

I am starting to panic because my 8 y/o isn't really up to speed with the writing skills as outlined for a 2nd grader in WTM. There i've said it. deep breath :D

 

I've been re-reading Ms. Bauer's advice, and wondering if i have understood it correctly.

 

Up until this year, my kiddo hasn't had interest in picking up a pencil. When i ask for narratives, she usually just repeats the entire story she just heard back to me. Occasionally she'll pull out the typewriter and write her own newspaper, or she's made a couple of storybooks of her own volition. However, needless to say, she isn't at the point where i can dictate or ask her to write her own narratives.

 

I read about the WWE program, and wondered if it would be useful? But i see in the section on Writing in WTM that Ms. Bauer states that if you're consistently completing narratives for history, science, and reading, that your child should be learning written usage just fine.

 

Am i reading that correctly? As she's grown more fond of the writing utensils, i've had my child pick out two interesting details in her science books to write; we shorten the given narrations from the SOTW workbooks and have her copy them as one paragraph. Wondering if it would just be adding more to an already full plate of copywork if we were to throw in WWE? Sometimes more is just "more", you know?

 

What are your thoughts?? Those of you that use WWE, do you complete narrations for other subjects too, or use WWE solely for its intent to improve writing skills?

 

Thanks for any feedback you may have.

[Pata]

Don't worry, I came to same realization when I reread the WTM several months ago. My dd was way behind the third grade suggestions for writing, but we've made up quite a bit of ground using WWE. We used WWE2 for 2nd grade and CW Aesop for the first half of 3rd, until I realized that her skills had just stalled. My plan was to apply WWE principles to her history and science narrations, but I found that it was not happening. My thinking is that just using history, science and reading narration is that it's a great idea for someone who is strong in the LA department, but not so much for those of use who are not.

 

So, we still do written history & science narrations, but she dictates these to me and then copies them into her notebook. I don't worry too much about what she tells me as I don't use that time for writing instruction. We also do most of the dictations assignments in FLL3, which she finds relatively easy, but that's a good thing for now. As for writing instruction, we are working through WWE3. When we do WWE3 it's a challenge for her, she has to work at it and I'm tough on correcting any mistakes. I believe that the hard work has paid off as I've seen transference of the skills into her history & science narrations. We do all her reading narrations orally at this point, next year we'll start working on the reading notebook, but we just haven't gotten to it yet :). Hope that helps!

[mamachanse]

We have been using WWE2 with our 8yo and have seen results over just a few weeks. I can't speak for levels 3 & 4, but level 2 takes us 5-10 minutes 4x/week and my son really enjoys the excerpts and often wants to read the books they are from. Win-win!

[....]

OK, there was a point when my kids' writing was bad...really bad. :D

 

I bought Writing with Ease 1 and 2, I reread the whole section on grammar stage writing....implemented the notebooking across all subjects (this is very important) and listened to the "A Plan for Teaching Writing" in the audio lecture section of PHP website.

 

Whew! :tongue_smilie: I pushed writing hard all year and they are doing sooooo much better. My 9 yro has started logic stage writing this year. No kidding. She can write a literary essay and a narrative summary on. her. own. TWTM writing really works. I just had to make it a huge priority.

 

WWE can be grueling, but I highly recommend it. But, there's also Writing Tales -similar to WWE, but a little lighter.

[kwg]

Starrbuck- you did the WWE workbook and notebooking across all subjects? Did you write the narrations for your 9 year old or have her write them?

 

I am in the same boat OP.

 

ETA- We have used WWE 1 and are in 2 so narrations are going great and I have seen improvements in his writing but he is still behind.

[KeriJ]

Hoping to reach a concensus among us here.

 

I am starting to panic because my 8 y/o isn't really up to speed with the writing skills as outlined for a 2nd grader in WTM. There i've said it. deep breath :D

 

I've been re-reading Ms. Bauer's advice, and wondering if i have understood it correctly.

 

Up until this year, my kiddo hasn't had interest in picking up a pencil. When i ask for narratives, she usually just repeats the entire story she just heard back to me. Occasionally she'll pull out the typewriter and write her own newspaper, or she's made a couple of storybooks of her own volition. However, needless to say, she isn't at the point where i can dictate or ask her to write her own narratives.

 

I read about the WWE program, and wondered if it would be useful? But i see in the section on Writing in WTM that Ms. Bauer states that if you're consistently completing narratives for history, science, and reading, that your child should be learning written usage just fine.

 

Am i reading that correctly? As she's grown more fond of the writing utensils, i've had my child pick out two interesting details in her science books to write; we shorten the given narrations from the SOTW workbooks and have her copy them as one paragraph. Wondering if it would just be adding more to an already full plate of copywork if we were to throw in WWE? Sometimes more is just "more", you know?

 

What are your thoughts?? Those of you that use WWE, do you complete narrations for other subjects too, or use WWE solely for its intent to improve writing skills?

 

Thanks for any feedback you may have.

 

This was a question I always had as well: Do you need WWE if you are consistently working on these skills across the curriculum? When I read WTM, it seemed to me that she was saying what you said in the bolded part above.

 

I always read mixed opinions about this. It seems to me that WWE came about for those who were having a hard time implementing the writing skills in other subjects. But if you were already consistent about that, you wouldn't need WWE. That's how I read it anyway.

 

I would love to ask SWB this specific question sometime to hear a clear answer!

[....]

Starrbuck- you did the WWE workbook and notebooking across all subjects? Did you write the narrations for your 9 year old or have her write them?

 

I am in the same boat OP.

 

ETA- We have used WWE 1 and are in 2 so narrations are going great and I have seen improvements in his writing but he is still behind.

 

Howdy! When we first started writing, I followed the directions in WWE (so I wrote the narrations). She did the copywork and dictation. She's actually in WWE3 now, but we only do WWE3 twice a week (for maintenance!). She's ready for logic stage writing, so I started assigning stories or nonfiction passages for her to read and she writes the narrative summary (nonfiction) or the literary essay (fiction) on her own. I correct her work and she makes any changes afterwards. If you listen to the audio lectures, these are only supposed to write about half a page (for beginning logic stage). We haven't started outlining, but I sat down with her and taught her Roman Numerals and I'm getting ready to teach outlining to her this summer (again, it's only a one-level outline for that stage).

 

For the notebooking, I bought them both a 5 subject notebook and we divided it up into subjects. Whenever we cover a subject, they have the notebook out and ready. I'll copy a sentence into their notebooks for them to copy...or I'll dictate a sentence to them...or I'll have them draw a picture (for science) and jot down observations. This has helped a LOT.

 

I also started having them write words that they don't know from their reading into the notebook and a definition.

 

I really think the notebooking is what boosted their writing so much. And WWE helps, but now that I think about it, the notebooking is a lot of practice. A lot of writing is practice, I think.

 

 

Edited to say: Here is an example of my kid's notebooking. Here are a couple of her notes from the science section...

 

 

The earth's crust is made of plates that move! When the plates move, it causes an earthquake and a tsunami.

 

 

Why she put an exclamation point at the end of the first sentence is beyond me. My husband thought it was funny.

Edited May 4, 2011 by starrbuck12

[2_girls_mommy]

When I read WTM, I get the idea that you don't need WWE if you are doing all of the other writing as well. So far, we have gone without it. We do use R&S and it's writing assignments. I got a little panicky when we started those because for the first time ever, something was hard for my dd. But once we got used to these, it has been going fine. I had to work on how to teach her. She had to get used to something that didn't come automatically to her since most things do.

 

For other writing we have always done the letters to friends, copywork, dictation, history narrations (I always took hers down in 1st and 2nd and then she recopied into her own writing. This year she is beginning to write some on her own without me.) science narrations, lab reports and definitions, literature narrations, etc. So I always felt like we were doing everything else. I am planning on listening to the writing talks on PHP before we start school for 4th grade and SOTW 4 which begins outlining. I also attended some IEW workshops which gave me some ideas for helping with the R&S writing assignments. I almost decided to look at Writing Strands or WWE for next year, but in the end decided not to.

[mom2boys030507]

I have been working at doing narrations and writing across the curriculum. I started to become conserned my boys were behind in their writing when I reread TWTM. So, I gave them the year end evaluations in WWE. I was pleasantly suprised that they did very well. My oldest passed level 3 with ease, and most of level 4 - he needs more detail in his writing to be able to passe the level 4 evaluation. My second passed level 1 and I have really not worked with him as much as I think I should. I do plan to step up work with him, but at least I know that doing narrations and writing across the curriculum is working. We are making progress.

 

I also plan to start complete notebooks in history and science next year to have everything in one place.

[opekoe]

For the notebooking, I bought them both a 5 subject notebook and we divided it up into subjects. Whenever we cover a subject, they have the notebook out and ready. I'll copy a sentence into their notebooks for them to copy...or I'll dictate a sentence to them...or I'll have them draw a picture (for science) and jot down observations. This has helped a LOT.

 

 

This is gonna sound like such a weird newbie question but somehow I still can't wrap my head around the idea of notebooking. Where I come from (Singapore) notebooks are quite different from what I think you have in the US. To me, a notebook is a bound book - I think it is what you would refer to as a comp book? If my thinking is correct, then the kind of notebooks you refer to are actually like binder files, ie. you hole punch individual papers and put them into a ring file.

 

I'm quite curious to see and know how you have set up your 5 subject notebook - do you mind sharing some pictures?

[lmrich]

Just something I have added this year as she is approaching logic stage writing.

 

Together we create an outline for history or science. Then she writes from the outline. It has made a significant difference.

[....]

Just something I have added this year as she is approaching logic stage writing.

 

Together we create an outline for history or science. Then she writes from the outline. It has made a significant difference.

 

That's a great idea!! I feel like I'm lost at sea with logic stage writing. I "think" I know what we should be doing.

[....]

This is gonna sound like such a weird newbie question but somehow I still can't wrap my head around the idea of notebooking. Where I come from (Singapore) notebooks are quite different from what I think you have in the US. To me, a notebook is a bound book - I think it is what you would refer to as a comp book? If my thinking is correct, then the kind of notebooks you refer to are actually like binder files, ie. you hole punch individual papers and put them into a ring file.

 

I'm quite curious to see and know how you have set up your 5 subject notebook - do you mind sharing some pictures?

 

The notebooks are blank, spiral-bound with about 180 sheets of paper in them. This is what we use. We divided my kids' notebooks into 5 categories: reading, language arts, german/latin, science/math and history.

 

I posted an example from my daughter's notebook...here's an example from my son's notebook (he's finishing up 2nd grade - so, keep that in mind :D):

 

Dormant - sleep

 

three things a seed needs - sun water air

 

He wrote a story in his notebook (at his own request):

 

There was a cat he was a tiger his name was Ryan. He has three sisters and he has Good Perents and he loves to play with his sister. But he loves to hunt food like monkeys and dear and when he growsup he is gono be the bigist tiger of all. And he likes to read.

 

He still has trouble with correct spelling when he writes. And, he's a Dude. :001_rolleyes: By the end of 3rd grade, his writing should be much better.

 

Anyway, those are some examples from my kids' notebooks.

[2_girls_mommy]

We do the notebooks like described in WTM. They are actually 3 ring binders. The children put their papers in after they have written them. I 3 hole punch papers that don't have them already. I organize the notebooks ala WTM w/tab dividers.

[Penelope]

This was a question I always had as well: Do you need WWE if you are consistently working on these skills across the curriculum? When I read WTM, it seemed to me that she was saying what you said in the bolded part above.

 

I always read mixed opinions about this. It seems to me that WWE came about for those who were having a hard time implementing the writing skills in other subjects. But if you were already consistent about that, you wouldn't need WWE. That's how I read it anyway.

 

 

 

What is more clear in the WWE guides than in TWTM, is the focus of telling and writing the narrations. One thing WWE does well is leading the child, step by step, to summarize different types of writing passages. There are different ways to narrate, but WWE is working towards the child picking out main ideas with supporting details--IOW, writing paragraphs.

[mrsriley81]

We do the notebooks like described in WTM. They are actually 3 ring binders. The children put their papers in after they have written them. I 3 hole punch papers that don't have them already. I organize the notebooks ala WTM w/tab dividers.

 

This is how we do it, as well.

[SnMomof7]

I haven't seen a response yet as to whether or not you NEED WWE if you are doing WTM-writing across the curriculum. I'd say the simple answer is no. :)

 

We do tweaked, loosely WTM-style writing across the curric in a relaxed way along with our Rod and Staff and AAS. It has been an absolutely wonderful combination and we've made HUGE strides this year. Absolutely amazing.

 

We also do CM-style narrations of independent reading, and have done a LOT of copywork for the past two years as well.

 

All that being said - yes, if you are teaching some punctation and mechanics in there, just WWE it yourself. It can definitely be done. I had a problem with using snippets of lit. instead of what we were actually reading. That just feels so anthology like to me, and I hate literary anthologies. Sigh.

 

Now, it does take more time as a teacher to figure out the hows and whys in order to apply it to your studies, and I am definitely still learning (it's a curve!) but it has been well worth it :).

[opekoe]

The notebooks are blank, spiral-bound with about 180 sheets of paper in them. This is what we use. We divided my kids' notebooks into 5 categories: reading, language arts, german/latin, science/math and history.

 

I posted an example from my daughter's notebook...here's an example from my son's notebook (he's finishing up 2nd grade - so, keep that in mind :D):

 

Dormant - sleep

 

three things a seed needs - sun water air

 

He wrote a story in his notebook (at his own request):

 

There was a cat he was a tiger his name was Ryan. He has three sisters and he has Good Perents and he loves to play with his sister. But he loves to hunt food like monkeys and dear and when he growsup he is gono be the bigist tiger of all. And he likes to read.

 

He still has trouble with correct spelling when he writes. And, he's a Dude. :001_rolleyes: By the end of 3rd grade, his writing should be much better.

 

Anyway, those are some examples from my kids' notebooks.

 

We do the notebooks like described in WTM. They are actually 3 ring binders. The children put their papers in after they have written them. I 3 hole punch papers that don't have them already. I organize the notebooks ala WTM w/tab dividers.

 

Those are helpful replies, thanks! I really need to get more notebooking into our homeschool day. :tongue_smilie:

[PenKase]

I've often asked myself whether we still need to use WWE or if we're better served writing across the curriculum. With two dd's, each in different stages, I've decided to continue to use WWE because it helps to guide me, the parent, in what to expect out of dd7. We've been using WWE1 since the beginning of our "school" year and her writing has jumped by leaps and bounds since using it. We began with the standard "tell one thing you remember" to often times me having to write out paragraph long narrations (she's has strong fine motor skills but I find that if I write her narrations first she can give much more detail). I write most of her narrations down on a composition notebook and have her copy 1-2 sentences. We also do this for STOW. I like having the notebook because it shows what dd is actually capable of writing. If both subjects fall on the same day and there is narration to be told for them both, she will orally narrate (and I will write down on her notebook) but is only required to copy from one. I alternate which subject she is writing from so there is a balance between them.

 

While I would like to more organically have her narrate from a book she is already reading, WWE does offer great pacing, gentle grammar instruction, and a built in book list. I really appreciate the hand holding. Also, I do think that writing across the curriculum without the absence of curricula, IMHO, is best well served in the logic stage. In the grammar stage, using WWE and STOW AG helps me to KISS while implementing the necessary skills dd will need to readily move into the logic stage. All that being said, I've gone back and forth on whether or not to use it but I'm pretty confident we will continue with it for the long haul. WWE is effective and it is easy enough to implement. Badda bing, badda bang. Win, win. ;)

Edited May 5, 2011 by PenKase

[Jyniffrec]

:bigear:

[sncstraub]

 

All that being said - yes, if you are teaching some punctation and mechanics in there, just WWE it yourself. It can definitely be done. I had a problem with using snippets of lit. instead of what we were actually reading. That just feels so anthology like to me, and I hate literary anthologies. Sigh.

 

I understand this. I think that getting snippets of different stories sometimes drives ds7 crazy. :D But it also makes him want to read the rest of the book...which I love! There are some stories that are not our favorites, but a number of times he has demanded that we find "that book" at the library so he can hear the rest of the story. And often, they are stories that we probably would not have otherwise read.

 

So I love WWE for that reason. But I agree that it's not necessary if the same skills are being covered in lit or science or history.

[MadSci Mama]

For such volumes of feedback, i thank you kindly!

 

There is a lot here to deliberate and digest and we are looking forward to set in place a plan. Thanks for sharing your experiences!!

 

Blessings for a relaxing, enjoyable summer!

Sincerely,

Whit :grouphug:

[lovinmomma]

Howdy! When we first started writing, I followed the directions in WWE (so I wrote the narrations). She did the copywork and dictation. She's actually in WWE3 now, but we only do WWE3 twice a week (for maintenance!). She's ready for logic stage writing, so I started assigning stories or nonfiction passages for her to read and she writes the narrative summary (nonfiction) or the literary essay (fiction) on her own. I correct her work and she makes any changes afterwards. If you listen to the audio lectures, these are only supposed to write about half a page (for beginning logic stage). We haven't started outlining, but I sat down with her and taught her Roman Numerals and I'm getting ready to teach outlining to her this summer (again, it's only a one-level outline for that stage).

 

For the notebooking, I bought them both a 5 subject notebook and we divided it up into subjects. Whenever we cover a subject, they have the notebook out and ready. I'll copy a sentence into their notebooks for them to copy...or I'll dictate a sentence to them...or I'll have them draw a picture (for science) and jot down observations. This has helped a LOT.

 

I also started having them write words that they don't know from their reading into the notebook and a definition.

 

I really think the notebooking is what boosted their writing so much. And WWE helps, but now that I think about it, the notebooking is a lot of practice. A lot of writing is practice, I think.

 

 

Edited to say: Here is an example of my kid's notebooking. Here are a couple of her notes from the science section...

 

 

The earth's crust is made of plates that move! When the plates move, it causes an earthquake and a tsunami.

 

 

Why she put an exclamation point at the end of the first sentence is beyond me. My husband thought it was funny.

 

Fabulous idea!