Embassy Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) I don't like religion. I really don't. I grew up in a religion and stayed there until my mid 20s. It doesn't seem to matter what kind of religion there is they all seem similar. They all have a set of rules one must adhere to in order to be right with God, the universe, have a good life next time around, or have good luck. I was on that treadmill. Maybe some are happy to stay there, but some are not. I found the peace that comes from a relationship with Jesus Christ. I got off the treadmill and was enraptured with the gift of His perfection. It wasn't about me and what good I was able to do that made me good, it was what He gave to me that made me perfect in His sight. Maybe some would consider that religion. I know religion and I know what I have now is very different. So my point? Not everyone is happy in their religion. Some may be happy staying as they are - as their family is - as their culture is. Some will gladly forsake family and culture to know peace. I forsook my family and my culture to know peace and although I am now an outsider within my family and the culture in which I grew up I have no regrets. So yes, I will gladly proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ to those who have never heard. Someone told me and for that I am extremely grateful. Thankfully, some have no issues with their family or culture. In my perspective I don't believe I should sit back and do nothing because proselytizing is unpopular. There are people out there discontented and looking for what I have found. It isn't so easy to hear the message of Jesus in some parts of the world. If you have a computer with internet access you may find out if you are searching, but only the rich in the world have a computer. If you have a TV or radio you have to tune in to the right station at the right time in order to hear. If you can read you have to have the right book or papers put in your hand. When preaching is done in those far away countries people aren't held hostage. They come to hear what is said out of interest or curiosity. They don't have to stay or come back. I do subscribe to the philosophy that why should anyone get to hear the good news 5, 10, or 1000 times when there are people out there who have not heard once? As for the pictures they are representative pictures depicting the culture. I have pictures like that in my home. I have a book full of pictures of different people groups too so I don't have a problem with them. I love having pictures of people of different cultures. It would be difficult to learn about or appreciate the differences without any pictures. We have found (at least in our home) that we can appreciate the differences and enjoy other cultures while at the same time inviting people to get off the treadmill and rest in what Jesus has already done for them. Some people choose to stay on the treadmill. While I don't believe the treadmill goes anywhere people are free to do what they want. I do believe people have the right to choose though. Edited May 3, 2011 by Wehomeschool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I don't like religion. I really don't. I grew up in a religion and stayed there until my mid 20s. It doesn't seem to matter what kind of religion there is they all seem similar. They all have a set of rules one must adhere to in order to be right with God, the universe, have a good life next time around, or have good luck. I was on that treadmill. Maybe some are happy to stay there, but some are not. I found the peace that comes from a relationship with Jesus Christ. I got off the treadmill and was enraptured with the gift of His perfection. It wasn't about me and what good I was able to do that made me good, it was what He gave to me that made me perfect in His sight. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Really? How about if these things are done by an atheist? Is it still "pure and faultless"? If not, then it really isn't about looking after orphans and widows at all. It's about believing the right things. I shouldn't have written the verse without the reference: James, chapter 1 19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20 because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. 21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. 22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do. 26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Yes, I would consider them the same as unsaved... From Romans 10: 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.â€[f] 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news! However, I do not speak on behalf of all Christians. But, it is my understanding that those who do not trust in Christ will not enter heaven. I do believe that God can reveal himself without our help. I have heard many accounts of people believing through dreams and visions when they do not have access to the word of God. So those that have not had the opportunity to learn about Christ have the same outcome as those who have refused to do so? The scriptures you quoted, to me, are admonishment to preach the gospel, which I take very seriously. I take the scriptures in that context, I don't comprehend a God of justice who would punish someone who has not had an opportunity to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 So those that have not had the opportunity to learn about Christ have the same outcome as those who have refused to do so? The scriptures you quoted, to me, are admonishment to preach the gospel, which I take very seriously. I take the scriptures in that context, I don't comprehend a God of justice who would punish someone who has not had an opportunity to hear. Yes, but not everyone agrees with me. I see that we are all deserving of hell. God's justice would condemn us all to hell because we have all turned our backs on him. God has chosen in his great mercy to rescue some of us. Those he wants to rescue will hear, and will believe. Romans is a good place to look at this... here is some from chapter 9: 19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?†20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’â€[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 So those that have not had the opportunity to learn about Christ have the same outcome as those who have refused to do so? What about those who HAVE "heard", but just can't convince themselves that it's 100% true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 So those that have not had the opportunity to learn about Christ have the same outcome as those who have refused to do so? What about those who HAVE "heard", but just can't convince themselves that it's 100% true? I just wanted to take a moment and point out that not ALL Christians believe that either of these groups are "bound for Hell." I know that is pretty obvious on these forums that there is a ton of diversity in Christian thought. But I wanted to say it anyway! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) What about those who HAVE "heard", but just can't convince themselves that it's 100% true? We'll be dancing in the flames together. :lol: But... there is no such thing as hell or heaven, so it hardly matters. Just as others may be so surely convinced that there is such a place, I am equally sure there isn't. They can't provide me any proof (FYI: Scripture isn't proof), so I don't really care what they think. If they want to go praying for "unreached people" or "souls" or what-have-you, the praying itself doesn't do any harm, so what the hey. I like the Marcus Aurelius quote on this topic. I am not afraid. I'll just continue to live a good life. Edited May 3, 2011 by Audrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I just wanted to take a moment and point out that not ALL Christians believe that either of these groups are "bound for Hell." I know that is pretty obvious on these forums that there is a ton of diversity in Christian thought. But I wanted to say it anyway! :grouphug: Ditto. It certainly isn't my denomination's belief (LDS). Of course, we're probably one of the most annoying proselyter's out there :tongue_smilie:but it's not because we believe those whose doors we're knocking on are destined for Hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Of course, we're probably one of the most annoying proselyter's out there :tongue_smilie:but it's not because we believe those whose doors we're knocking on are destined for Hell. I wasn't aware of this. I thought the purpose of all Christian proselytizing was to save people. Not that you'll convert me, but if you don't mind me asking, what is the reason then for LDS proselytizing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I wasn't aware of this. I thought the purpose of all Christian proselytizing was to save people. Not that you'll convert me, but if you don't mind me asking, what is the reason then for LDS proselytizing? Well, the same reason as other denominations, to "spread the Good News". The Gospel can be a source of peace and joy (not saying those outside the Gospel don't have that), and having a relationship with the Savior, in LDS belief, is preferrable to not having one. Knowing who we are, where we came from, what our purpose of life is, etc. can be a wonderful thing, and it's what we believe the Gospel provides. We also believe in the Great Commission to spread the Gospel, but our understanding of the Gospel is that our missionary efforts here on earth won't be the only opportunity "unreached" (to use the thread term) people will have of hearing it. We believe there will be a chance for them to hear it in the post-death/pre-Judgement Day period (which is why we do Proxy-Baptisms for the dead in our Temples, so that those who might be recieving the Gospel there will have that Saving ordinance -which again, like the Gospel, they can accept or reject it). And even if they do reject it, they'll at the very least end up in the Tellestial Kingdom of Heaven (the lowest of the 3 Kingdoms we believe Heaven to be divided into). They will be in the presence of the Holy Spirit (not God), and have a pretty comfortable Eternity. Only those who Deny the Holy Spirit will be barred from Heaven entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Well, the same reason as other denominations, to "spread the Good News". (Just quoting a little to show I'm responding to your post.) Thank you for explaining that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Well, the same reason as other denominations, to "spread the Good News". The Gospel can be a source of peace and joy (not saying those outside the Gospel don't have that), and having a relationship with the Savior, in LDS belief, is preferrable to not having one. Knowing who we are, where we came from, what our purpose of life is, etc. can be a wonderful thing, and it's what we believe the Gospel provides. We also believe in the Great Commission to spread the Gospel, but our understanding of the Gospel is that our missionary efforts here on earth won't be the only opportunity "unreached" (to use the thread term) people will have of hearing it. We believe there will be a chance for them to hear it in the post-death/pre-Judgement Day period :iagree:This Jehovah's Witness agrees. Thank you for providing details to this. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 What about those who HAVE "heard", but just can't convince themselves that it's 100% true?There is a chance that these have not heard enough. In addition, God's justice is perfect. Humans do not take into account the circumstances that He can see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Well, the same reason as other denominations, to "spread the Good News". The Gospel can be a source of peace and joy (not saying those outside the Gospel don't have that), and having a relationship with the Savior, in LDS belief, is preferrable to not having one. Knowing who we are, where we came from, what our purpose of life is, etc. can be a wonderful thing, and it's what we believe the Gospel provides. We also believe in the Great Commission to spread the Gospel, but our understanding of the Gospel is that our missionary efforts here on earth won't be the only opportunity "unreached" (to use the thread term) people will have of hearing it. We believe there will be a chance for them to hear it in the post-death/pre-Judgement Day period (which is why we do Proxy-Baptisms for the dead in our Temples, so that those who might be recieving the Gospel there will have that Saving ordinance -which again, like the Gospel, they can accept or reject it). And even if they do reject it, they'll at the very least end up in the Tellestial Kingdom of Heaven (the lowest of the 3 Kingdoms we believe Heaven to be divided into). They will be in the presence of the Holy Spirit (not God), and have a pretty comfortable Eternity. Only those who Deny the Holy Spirit will be barred from Heaven entirely. :iagree: And if I can just add one more thing, one result of this LDS belief is that we never proselytize in countries where it is not legal for us to do so. I've lived in a variety of countries where that is the case and there is no proselytizing going on. Our doing baptisms for the dead might not be popular in some circles, but at least it doesn't put anyone in danger.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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