Calling all dog health experts, quasi experts, & anyone with a dog nutrition opinion

[FaithManor]

I need help. Lewis, our adorable, loveable (most of the time), melt our hearts, cocker spaniel of 7 months age definitely has a heart problem. He had a grade two heart murmur when he saw the vet for the first time at 10 weeks. He went for a distemper booster today and it's up to a grade 4...on a scale of 1-6, that is not good.

 

I'm a bit heartbroken because untreated, his life span is probably 4 years. But, it is $500.00 for the ecg a Michigan State with the animal cardiologist and if our vet is correct about which valve has the leak, it's not surgically repairable. Even if it is, at $3500.00 for the surgery, dh says "NO, we'll enjoy what time we have with him". Logically, I agree. But, my heart is having a hard time listening to the logic part.

 

Anyway, the big recommendation was that since he's currently asymptomatic and he's nearly full-grown, that we try to keep him at his current weight or very close because his heart is handling the load. By keeping him from gaining much more weight, we might get six years instead of four with him. We've been feeding him basic purina dog food which the vet says is a very bad idea (I've always been under the impression that a lot of the expensive dog foods are all buzz, no quality for a lot of money so we didn't fuss about food) because they are full of additives, preservatives, and lots of filler grains which dogs don't digest well and cause them to feel more hungry, beg for food, etc. and that the serving sizes on the bags are too large because the manufacturer knows that with all of the junk in the food, the dog has to eat a large amount in order to get the nutrients it needs.

 

So, what do you use? What would you recommend? How do you handle nutrition and preventative medicine?

 

I'm currently looking at a rather pricey food called WellnessSuper5mix which contains lamb, salmon, and fruits. It looks like it has the omega oils and antioxidants I want, however it contains oats and rye flour which I thought were still bad for Lewis.

 

The vet did not recommend a specific brand. His office does not carry a line of product because he doesn't want to get into being accused by pet owners of making nutritional recommendations based on lining his own pockets. He did say that he thinks IAMS and Eukanuba are overrated for the price, but again, he didn't say exactly what I should buy either.

 

Help!

 

Faith

[SonshineLearner]

Unless someone can suggest why not, I'd go with what I feed my pup. I feed a raw food diet. You would add Salmon oil, which I get from Amazon Prime :) SO... sorry about the health thing..

[kewb]

I do a mix of raw and wellness dry food. I am not an expert by any means but I don't think you can go wrong with a raw diet.

[unsinkable]

No help. Just :grouphug: & I hope you find your answer!

[Impish]

I agree 100% about raw food diet.

[Clover11]

We feed a raw diet for our dog. There is a site I used to use that rates dog food--> http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/

 

Look up a few brands on there to see where they rate :)

[The Governess]

No expert advice, but we have used this brand of premium dog food for 9 years with good results. We use the lamb and rice blend. It has very few ingredients. Our dogs have access to their food at all times and have never had problems overeating.

 

:grouphug: Hope you find something that works for your pup.

[SonshineLearner]

If you're going to feed a "dog food kibble"... Wellness does seem to be a good brand :)

[Isabella]

Definitely raw food is going to give him the most 'bang for your buck'! The nutrients are more accessible in the form of natural raw, rather than heat treated and extruded dry food.

 

You can go for chicken frames, chicken necks, chicken pet mince, turkey necks, liver, kidney, heart, lamb shanks & offcuts (avoid beef, as its the meat that dogs react to more often), fish is ok if it's the smaller fish (sardines), the ones that are lower in the food chain, and therefore less mercury contamination. The higher up in the food chain, the more mercury intake, which accumulates in the tissues).

 

Add to the meat, raw veges (in the wild, dogs/wolves go first for the stomach contents of the herbivore, which contain partly digested vegetable matter, then the organ meat, then muscle meat & bones. As far as which veges, it's important to note, don't *ever* feed onion (or chocolate, but that's not a vege!!) Also not too many cruciferous - cabbage, broccoli etc, as these can be goitregenic and affect the thyroid - slightly steamed they are much better to use, though, as they lose a lot of that effect. Carrots are great & cheap, lettuce, any greens you can find. Blend the veges with water in the blender, making it easy to digest, like the contents of that herbivore's stomach! ;-)

 

Add some Extra Virgin Cold Pressed Olive oil, or other good quality oils (definitely not the cheap oils, which are a heart attack in a bottle! And this is what is usually in commercial dog food). You can add a capsule of Co Enzyme Q10, and one of Vitamin E, which are very beneficial for the heart. Also add a dash of Apple Cider vinegar, about a teaspoon for your dogs size).

 

You can add an egg every couple of days for a treat. Also yoghurt (unsweetened, full cream) leftover cottage cheese, etc (no uncultured dairy).

 

If you start on this type of feeding, don't do it suddenly, as their digestion can be upset. Phase it in by feeding the first day a quarter raw/ three quarters dry), assuming no tummy upset, the next day half/half, the next day 3/4 - 1/4, the fourth day full raw. If tummy reacts on a certain day, just feed the same for a couple more days before upping the raw. Of course, if the tummy upsets continue, maybe there is more of an underlying problem. You can also give pro-biotics before and during the changeover to help with some digestive enzymes.

 

As far as amounts, (and I'm sorry it's in kg/g), our40kg dog gets about 1kg of meat per day, plus some veges (about 100g?- I don't weigh - but roughly a couple of carrots & whatever else I have that needs using up), and our little 15kg dog gets about 200g meat, and 50g? veges)

 

It's important to bear in mind that this feeding is not rocket science. Keep in mind the wild dog - it doesn't have access every day to everything that is ideal for it, but it lives well on whatever *is* accessible. So if you don't feed the dog veges for a week - no problem...if you feed him chicken pet mince for 2 weeks running because it was on special - great.....if you run out of cider vinegar & forget to pick it up for a few weeks - no biggie....you get the picture I guess! :-)

 

On the raw diet, it's very helpful to fast the dog for one day of the week, this encourages the liver to function optimally. Trust me, they are fine with this (my two don't even bat an eyelid).

 

Also, please research the benefits of minimal vaccination, and instead of getting booster shots, get a blood test (should be the same price as vaccination), also called a titre test, to check for the levels of immunity to the major diseases. Our dogs haven't been vaccinated past puppyhood, and their immunity status is still plenty high enough to cover them. Each vaccination (especially if immunity is still high) puts a huge strain on the body, which won't help his heart. Of course, if the status is too low to cover him, the vaccination is important. You can give him Vit C ( a tablet or two each day) for a week before and after his vaccination to help his body cope better.

 

Hope this helps - we've used this feeding routine for 5 years, and the difference in the health of our dogs is incredible - our previous dog had all sorts of problems, which led us to start thinking past the 'commercial food is the only thing that contains everything they need!'.

 

Also....you should tell your breeder re the heart problem. He/she may help out as far as vet costs, seeing as it was present from puppyhood, and at the very least, they need to know what problems their breeding program is throwing.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Isabella

[SonshineLearner]

I think that for "pounds" it's about 2 or 3 percent of your dog's weight... which for us... 65lbs would be about 1 1/3 lbs per day. I actually had started upping his meat too much and have had to back down, due to... well... I should be exercising him more :( He does well eating ... and then fasting the next day... if that's what we choose. Works well for if you'll be gone for a day... Feed a lot one day... then fast when you're driving to your vacation. i wouldn't advise this for a pup... ours is older... And, while we're out, we might give him a few treats :) As far as the heart murmur... I wonder if there are special things, homeopathically, that you could do to help him out.

[violinmom]

Another vote for a raw diet. There is good yahoo group for raw feeding with lots of great info.

[SailorMom]

Raw is wonderful, but if that is just too much to deal with (and for me it probably would be), I recommend Chicken Noodle Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul.

Great food. It's a bit expensive, but for the quality - it is one of the cheapest in it's class. Our dogs LOVE it, and are very healthy - the vet keeps commenting on wanting to start carrying the food ever since he started seeing how well the dogs were doing on it. We also fee the cat food to our kitty - and his coat is shinier than it has ever been.

Also - do not feel bad about the surgery. The stress that would cause the dog, and the inability of anyone to explain it all to him - probably best just to let the little guy live a happy life - as long as he has.

[Jennifer3141]

Another raw feeder chiming in! We've been raw feeders since 1999. Most of my cats have never had kibble and my eldest dog is going on 12 years with never having had it. We all LOVE it.

 

ITA with whomever said to contact your breeder. If this were my dog, I would go ahead with the MSU testing because then you'll know exactly what is going on. It's possible that a vet/specialist cardiologist will know more about what's going on than your traditional vet too.

 

My brother brought his kibble lab here for the weekend and few weeks ago and I do not know how kibble parents put up with it. The GIANT bombs in the backyard that NEVER dissolve, that god awful breath... Yuck.

 

Purina dog food is the equivalent of feeding your kids McDonald's every.single.day. It's disgusting.

[Peela]

We do raw food too.

The nice thing is, it doesn't smell and doesn't make them do stinky farts :)

So we give a variety of different raw meats and bones, plus scraps.

I sometimes mix raw mince with soaked grains, yoghurt, chopped vegies, garlic etc- but mostly I rely on food scraps to fill in the gap.

BUt if you don't want him to put on weight- don't over feed. Dogs actually don't need feeing every day- it is a human emotional thing that we do that. However dh cant bear not to, so he feeds them once a day. When dh is not around, I often will fast the dogs for a day. They don't actually like it, but it is good for them.

[Anita in NC]

I would feed one of the premium dog foods like "Taste of the Wild" or "Blue Buffalo" that use people grade food, no fillers, no corn, etc....

 

I use "Taste of the Wild". I have a Cocker mix that also has a heart murmur and watch his weight. He's around 10 years old.

 

The biggest thing is to measure the food. He gets 1/2 cup twice per day. No people food and only an occasional dog biscuit.

 

Here is the site that rates dog foods: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/

[Once]

We use Wellness here as well with a mix of raw fruit and scraps. We could not go totally raw because our dog got "the runs" nasty. Wellness is pricey but I am happy with the result. She has regular poops now and I don't have to clean her crate in the morning.

 

We are having a reoccuring problem with her nails which I will start looking into. She has brittle nails so they break often which causes a lot of pain. (She has had 8 nails pulled off the bed in about 2 years!!!) The vet suggested thyroid problems not diet as the problem (in a list of many options). She does not have the typical racer back shedding so the vet did not push for a diagnosis. We are going to work at keeping her nails *very* short and see if it prevents it. Next step is thyroid test.

 

One of her litter mates was diagnoses with hip displashia (sp?) before 2 years old. My goal has been to keep her weight down just like you are going to try. I have also heard that the amounts on the bag are high and so I do not give other treats and keep it as low as she will allow me to. She asks for food after we have eaten but does not beg or steal. In fact our dog food bag is downstairs opened to the air and she never sneaks it when we are gone. Her request for food is more a social reminder for me and she can wait if she needs to.

 

I have been very happy with Wellness even though I would have preferred raw. I hope you can keep your pup healthy and happy at a low weight and that she lives many more years to come. I get the dilemna you are in as we would have to work hard to pay for a hip displashia (I know that is spelled wrong but I do not have the time to look it up!!! Ugg.) surgery as well. All the best!

 

 

PS: I want to thank whoever suggested copying a final post before hitting submit! I almost lost this and would not have been able to rewrite it this morning. Whoever mentioned that saved this one very important post!:tongue_smilie: (read with the greatest of sarcasm)

 

Have a great day, FaithManor!