s/o - What do you equate with "disrespectful"?

[Parrothead]

Again, you're equating respect as something that has to be earned. Husbands don't want to earn respect from their wives. They want it unconditionally.

 

Regarding the rest of your post, I meant what I said, not what you said...I tried to choose my words very carefully.

Okay, then I'm lost with your choice of words. I don't get "maintaining a respectful posture." I certainly don't get it in a marriage of equals.

 

This whole thing is probably something I'll never understand. I do think respect for another person can be lost. I do think it has to be earned. I have to earn dh's respect every day. I have to earn my child's respect every day. Why shouldn't he (or anyone else in the world) have to earn mine?

 

Unconditional love? Yes. Unconditional understanding? Yes. Unconditional friendship? Yes.

 

Truly I can't even imagine unconditional respect.

[Barry Goldwater]

No, it wasn't sarcasm at all. I was sincerely thanking you for help out. This is something I really have issue with.

 

Ah...thank you...I am highly (too highly) sensitive to tone at times so I asked for clarification out of respect. :lol:

 

Nestof3, I think the Michael Pearl advice to women in that situation is horrific...:001_huh: Regarding the rest of your posts and pp on this, your situation sounds complicated...I wish I could be of more help...my remarks were intended to just suggest some alternatives for you, things that you have control over, that might illicit better responses and outcomes from your DH and make a happier home. I wish you good fortune in that endeavor.

[Murphy101]

they tend to give such a poor picture of their other halfs.

 

Which is really not a pretty picture of the whole is it?

 

When a wife says her dh should earn her respect, I always want to ask her what makes her so worthy of his.

 

It should be a given.

 

The question should not be earning it.

 

The question should be not loosing it.

 

I would be absolutely devasted if my dh acted or spoke as though I were not a good wife or mother, like he was disgusted or ashamed of me? Especially to other people? These are THE most important things in my entire life and I have utterly devoted myself to them - and he, THE most important opinion to me, thinks I suck at it?:ack2::crying:

 

I want to make my dh happy and proud of me. I think most men want to do the same for their wives.

 

Yet every day I hear women who speak and act about their husbands exactly like that. Over petty stupid crap.

 

If there is a legitimate complaint, then I 100% say to speak to him bluntly and constructively in private about it.

 

But if every day, day in and day out, you have daily complaints about him?

 

Something needs to change and the mostly efficient starting place is you.

 

Take the trash example.

 

Why do you care so much about him doing the trash? Do you feel it is his designated job as a man? Did he say he would and then didn't? Is it because you asked and he didn't obey? If the trash matters so much to YOU, why don't YOU do it?

 

If dh said he would do it and then didn't, I'd be annoyed. I'd tell him so. "Hey you said three days ago you would take care of the trash and it's still there. Seriously, I feel like you are purposely annoying me at this point. Wth is your the deal with the trash man?":confused::D

 

If however, I want the trash emptied a certain way, time, or whatever and I'm starting to micromanage and run him like a house employee - then I need to suck it up and either do the trash myself or let him be to do it how he sees fit.

 

I also see nothing wrong with a husband asking for a list or wanting to know how I want something done. He is making a concerted and concrete effort to please me! It is just basic organization to sync up calendars and make a list. Geez. I do that. Dh knows if it isn't on my calendar or list, it is certainly not on my brain.:tongue_smilie:

[Nestof3]

Ah...thank you...I am highly (too highly) sensitive to tone at times so I asked for clarification out of respect. :lol:

 

Nestof3, I think the Michael Pearl advice to women in that situation is horrific...:001_huh: Regarding the rest of your posts and pp on this, your situation sounds complicated...I wish I could be of more help...my remarks were intended to just suggest some alternatives for you, things that you have control over, that might illicit better responses and outcomes from your DH and make a happier home. I wish you good fortune in that endeavor.

 

Thanks, Barry

 

I will be the first to admit that I could speak more kindly to everyone in our household. I have been working on it so far with my children (dh's at work).

 

I also tend to be nearsighted.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Okay, I get that, but what about the "let's all work together for our own benefit" angle instead of a "please help me specifically?"

 

If I'm the one doing a task and need help with it, why turn it into something besides me needing help. What if it isn't something that ultimately benefits both of us or the family in general?

 

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm truly trying to understand. I can't even come up with phrasing that doesn't sound contrived. I'm stuck at "Hon, will you come chop some onions," or "Will you bring me a screwdriver," or "Please take out the trash this evening." How do you make these requests sound like something that benefits him or us as a whole instead of tasks that you need help with?

 

I was thinking further about this in the shower and realized that I'd better clear something up. The "let's all work together for our own benefit" is the attitude that runs our family - not something that is usually said aloud (though I have said it to the kids).

 

Most of the time, both dh and I address things as "This needs to be done." It took me a while to realize that dh was not ordering me to do it but just stating what he saw should go on a general family "to do list". So if I say, "The garbage needs to be taken out", dh will often say "I'll do it." or "I'm busy right now, can ds13 do it?" or something like that. The kids have picked up on that general "family to do list" concept and often will volunteer themselves to do it.

[Barry Goldwater]

Okay, then I'm lost with your choice of words. I don't get "maintaining a respectful posture." I certainly don't get it in a marriage of equals.

 

This whole thing is probably something I'll never understand. I do think respect for another person can be lost. I do think it has to be earned. I have to earn dh's respect every day. I have to earn my child's respect every day. Why shouldn't he (or anyone else in the world) have to earn mine?

 

Unconditional love? Yes. Unconditional understanding? Yes. Unconditional friendship? Yes.

 

Truly I can't even imagine unconditional respect.

 

You can be equals, but not identicals. :)

 

I strongly desire the love of my DW...but I need her respect, like oxygen. In fact, I would gladly die rather than lose her respect.

 

You can make him earn it if you want...it's your marriage, and I'm not trying to 'sell' you on any of this. I'm just saying that, in general, men want the respect from their wives to be unconditional...maybe think of it as 'respect for the office of Husband.' Don't know if that helps...I'm running out of ideas to get this across in a helpful way.

[Hwin]

Disrespectful = tone mostly. I think you can say the wrong words (I don't always articulate my thoughts well when I'm upset) but it doesn't really matter if you're humble and wearing your heart on your sleeve.

 

My peeves are when wives treat their husbands like children or like they are stupid/unable to do "woman things." Just watch a commercial for any cleaning product... the woman is always knowingly shaking her head as though she is thinking: LOL. It thought it could clean a window.

[Parrothead]

I do not phrase home or child issues as helping me. It is not specificly helping me. It is just as much his home and kids as mine.

Without going into too much detail, we do have an issue in this area. So phrasing it as a home issue or a child issue won't work.

 

Just bc we agree it is a full time job that needs one of us to stay home and that the one of us should be me, does not equal he only has to bring home a paycheck to do his part.

See the above.

 

I phrase most everything using the royal We or as a cooperative effort.

 

We need to take care of the trash.

We need some help in here making dinner.

I need you to put the trash out while I make dinner please.

 

I don't see any of that as contrived or manipulative.

I'm afraid if I went with the "We need to take out the trash," it would be perceived as a joint effort, not a request for the trash to be taken out while I clean up the rest of the kitchen.

[eternalknot]

Back to the OP - to me, "disrepectful" for me is mostly from intent, and to a lesser extent from tone. I think one's tone can be coming from a place of hurt rather than a place of cruelty, so I try to take that into consideration. Did you use that tone of voice because you're hurt, or because you intended to make ME hurt?

 

I equate disrespect with mal intent.

[Parrothead]

This. His putting in a pizza or taking out the garbage is not a favor he's doing for me. It is part of him being a family, just as our kid's doing chores are part of them being part of a family. I'm not contriving to trick him into doing the chores. I'm just choosing not to put it in the light of having to beg him to help ME out.

The bolded is where our family dynamics differ.

[Murphy101]

Oh and keep in mind dh probably has an annoyance with you too.

 

In our house it is a regular joke.

 

"How is it you can remember the most mundane crap it seems about every movie or tv show in existence, but can't remember trash day is every Tuesday and Friday?!"

 

Or for me:

 

"How is it you can keep over 2000 books scheduled and organized and have trained 9 children to put away all their dirty and clean clothes properly, but every day I come home to a small mountain of our laundry on the bed?"

 

Bottom line? I am into books, not laundry. He is into movies, not getting trash to the curb.

 

So he puts up laundry and I designate some kid to trash chore. It just not worth arguing over.

 

Except sheets. Dh would just wad up our sheets, especially the fitted ones, and toss them in the closet. Which would drive me nuts. No, they have to be neatly folded in thirds and put away. Same for towels. So I do those bc it matters to me and not him.

 

Dh folds socks and underwear, which I think is just a bizarre waste of time. He has a sock thing. They are the bane of his existence and he is forever yelling at the kids about their socks.:001_huh::lol:

[Retired]

"Listen, Jacka$$! I told you to take the **** garbage out 10 minutes ago. Get up off you lazy *** and take it out now!"

 

That would be generally what I think of as disrespectful.

 

 

 

:lol: seriously my end-laws talk to each other like this.

 

My DH had to relearn relationship and marriage skills. He sometime talks to me disrespectfully even now but its usually after being at work with all the cussing and headache and he brings it home

 

But all I have to say is listen to yourself and he apologizes.

 

I wouldn't put up with it if I didn't know his childhood crazy life and I know he doesn't' mean it. He got better when we moved 4 hours away from his parents.

 

We were just talking about our responsibility as parent in teaching our children about respect and relationship. My dh is 48 and still sometimes slips into his parents dysfunctional communication.

[simka2]

I strongly desire the love of my DW...but I need her respect, like oxygen. In fact, I would gladly die rather than lose her respect.

 

QUOTE]

 

You might be surprised what you can live without ;). My dh went thru a situation where he lost EVERYONE'S respect for a season. He was falsley accused of some things by a very powerful man. He lost his standing in the community, his position as a pastor, his parents and my own respect. But, he never lost my love.

 

One day, sitting down with a very wise counselor, he said, "My worst nightmare has come true!" (I am sure in many ways my dh wanted to die)

The counselor's response, "This is NOT your WORST nightmare." My dh realized he was right. We were alive, none of our kids were dead, and he still had my love.

 

Eventually, the truth came out, dh's reputation was restored and we have experienced much healing and love in our marriage. We have been told that many marriages do not survive what we endured, I don't know, but I do know that "perspective" changed much of what we find very important.

 

PS. before this the "respect" issue was huge in our marriage, now it's just icing :D

[Parrothead]

I get that. I do think we all must earn respect, though. I don't mean in a point system way where I respect you today or right now because you're being a good boy, but as soon as you do something wrong, I will lose respect for you. But in general, I will not respect a person unless he or she is worthy of respect.

I feel the exact same way. I don't think I need to score dh on a daily respect quotient. At the same time if, time after time after time, dh were to do things that were disrespectful I'd start to loose respect for him.

 

I think a great marriage would be a blend of grace and forgiveness along with each person trying to be respectable. I think you can force and fake obedience but not respect. If we're not feeling respected or loved, I think we need to ask ourselves if we are being respectable and lovable.

This is something I think both genders/partners need to do.

 

Finally, I think one of the problems is that we often lose sight of the whole person and the history with that person and zero in on the moment. We don't offer grace and forgiveness in that moment and let it cloud over the whole person.

Thank you. I needed to hear this.

 

PS -- It bears repeating that I think women crave respect just as much as men.

Yes, yes we do.

[Parrothead]

If you've directed this at me:

Oh and keep in mind dh probably has an annoyance with you too.

Oh, I'm sure. I know exactly what they are. They have been brought up often enough over the last 6 months. This whole thing has come to a head at our house which is why I'm so interested in this topic.

 

In our house it is a regular joke.

 

"How is it you can remember the most mundane crap it seems about every movie or tv show in existence, but can't remember trash day is every Tuesday and Friday?!"

 

Or for me:

 

"How is it you can keep over 2000 books scheduled and organized and have trained 9 children to put away all their dirty and clean clothes properly, but every day I come home to a small mountain of our laundry on the bed?"

 

Bottom line? I am into books, not laundry. He is into movies, not getting trash to the curb.

 

So he puts up laundry and I designate some kid to trash chore. It just not worth arguing over.

Unfortunately it doesn't happen that way here. If there is something not done, the slack is not picked up by the other person. While I agree it isn't worth arguing over, it will shorten the life expectancy of someone.

 

And no, I didn't mean that anyone is contemplating ending a life.

 

Except sheets. Dh would just wad up our sheets, especially the fitted ones, and toss them in the closet. Which would drive me nuts. No, they have to be neatly folded in thirds and put away. Same for towels. So I do those bc it matters to me and not him.

 

Dh folds socks and underwear, which I think is just a bizarre waste of time. He has a sock thing. They are the bane of his existence and he is forever yelling at the kids about their socks.:001_huh::lol:

Those things that I need to have done "just so" are my freaky thing and I do not mind at all doing them. Towels can't be folded inside out. I am willing to fold every single towel in the house every single time the laundry is done just so they are not folded inside out. It is my freaky thing and I know it so I would never push that on someone else. Sheesh, if only our problems were about folding towels properly.

[Parrothead]

Ah...thank you...I am highly (too highly) sensitive to tone at times so I asked for clarification out of respect. :lol:

 

 

;)No problem. Thanks for asking instead of assuming.

 

In this area of the country I'm finding that a casual acquaintance, much less a friendship, with the opposite sex is just not kosher. I truly have no way to get a man's opinion unless I ask dh. I did ask once here for the men folk to explain something for me, but you guys wouldn't touch it with a cyber pole. :D

[Barry Goldwater]

;)No problem. Thanks for asking instead of assuming.

 

In this area of the country I'm finding that a casual acquaintance, much less a friendship, with the opposite sex is just not kosher. I truly have no way to get a man's opinion unless I ask dh. I did ask once here for the men folk to explain something for me, but you guys wouldn't touch it with a cyber pole. :D

 

don't remember that one...link? :D

[Parrothead]

I was thinking further about this in the shower and realized that I'd better clear something up. The "let's all work together for our own benefit" is the attitude that runs our family - not something that is usually said aloud (though I have said it to the kids).

 

Most of the time, both dh and I address things as "This needs to be done." It took me a while to realize that dh was not ordering me to do it but just stating what he saw should go on a general family "to do list". So if I say, "The garbage needs to be taken out", dh will often say "I'll do it." or "I'm busy right now, can ds13 do it?" or something like that. The kids have picked up on that general "family to do list" concept and often will volunteer themselves to do it.

Okay, I get it. We do not have a general needs to be done attitude. We have a person who goes to work outside the home and one that works inside the home. Unfortunately it isn't working well anymore. I had to change the rules when I got sick.

 

You can be equals, but not identicals. :)

 

I strongly desire the love of my DW...but I need her respect, like oxygen. In fact, I would gladly die rather than lose her respect.

 

You can make him earn it if you want...it's your marriage, and I'm not trying to 'sell' you on any of this. I'm just saying that, in general, men want the respect from their wives to be unconditional...maybe think of it as 'respect for the office of Husband.' Don't know if that helps...I'm running out of ideas to get this across in a helpful way.

I do understand where you are coming from. It is such a foreign concept for me though. I do take "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" to heart. I'm having a hard time with it not being mutual.

[Parrothead]

don't remember that one...link? :D

You did actually post to that one. Post #59. You were honest and said you couldn't' be helpful. And Bill jumped in on page 7, but couldn't help.

[Parrothead]

Disrespectful = tone mostly. I think you can say the wrong words (I don't always articulate my thoughts well when I'm upset) but it doesn't really matter if you're humble and wearing your heart on your sleeve.

 

My peeves are when wives treat their husbands like children or like they are stupid/unable to do "woman things." Just watch a commercial for any cleaning product... the woman is always knowingly shaking her head as though she is thinking: LOL. It thought it could clean a window.

I agree. Commercials like that are demeaning.

[Parrothead]

The question should not be earning it.

 

The question should be not loosing it.

 

 

What if it is lost? Shouldn't it have to be earned back?

 

(Not that that extreme has happened here.)

[Parrothead]

Hypothetically speaking and keeping with the trash example.

Take the trash example.

 

Why do you care so much about him doing the trash? Do you feel it is his designated job as a man? Did he say he would and then didn't? Is it because you asked and he didn't obey? If the trash matters so much to YOU, why don't YOU do it?

 

 

What if it is his designated job as agreed upon prior to the actual marriage, like a prenup? Say the chores were formally divided and Spouse A took the trash chore, Spouse B the lawn mowing chore.

 

So Spouse B has mowed the lawn and done all the gardening out there every Saturday for the past 10 years. Spouse B is so concerned with the yard work that Spouse B continues on with the yard care even into the winter and just as a natural extension does the snow removal also.

 

Spouse A periodically takes the trash to the dump, but only when the neighbors complain about the smell coming from the garage during the height of summer.

 

Do we respect Spouse A just because Spouse A is a man? Spouse B has to wear a gas mask to get the lawn mower from the garage in August. Shouldn't Spouse B be disgusted with how Spouse A is keeping Spouse A's part of the bargain?

 

With your suggestion Spouse B should be doing the yard work and the garbage. Which puts no responsibility on Spouse A. Spouse A has a free Saturday because Spouse B is doing all the Saturday chores now.

ETA: I must say again, that this is hypothetical. Dh does take the trash out and off. He knows I am unable physically and has no problem with doing it. I have no problem with how often it is or isn't done.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Parrothead

[Jean in Newcastle]

Hypothetically speaking and keeping with the trash example.

What if it is his designated job as agreed upon prior to the actual marriage, like a prenup? Say the chores were formally divided and Spouse A took the trash chore, Spouse B the lawn mowing chore.

 

So Spouse B has mowed the lawn and done all the gardening out there every Saturday for the past 10 years. Spouse B is so concerned with the yard work that Spouse B continues on with the yard care even into the winter and just as a natural extension does the snow removal also.

 

Spouse A periodically takes the trash to the dump, but only when the neighbors complain about the spell coming from the garage during the height of summer.

 

Do we respect Spouse A just because Spouse A is a man? Spouse B has to wear a gas mask to get the lawn mower from the garage in August. Shouldn't Spouse B be disgusted with how Spouse A is keeping Spouse A's part of the bargain?

 

With your suggestion Spouse B should be doing the yard work and the garbage. Which puts no responsibility on Spouse A. Spouse A has a free Saturday because Spouse B is doing all the Saturday chores now.

ETA: I must say again, that this is hypothetical. Dh does take the trash out and off. He knows I am unable physically and has no problem with doing it. I have no problem with how often it is or isn't done.

 

Let me just say that my neighbors said that when they saw our lawn get long, they knew that I had given birth because I was mowing it up to the bitter end! There was a period of time when I felt like I was doing both spouse A & B's job. We talked about it and renegotiated some of the dispersal of tasks. Dh is extremely allergic to grass. He is/was willing to hire a service. As the one handling the checkbook, I wasn't. I'd rather take on the chore than to pay the money. However, dh takes over kitchen duty whenever he can and frequently will "detail" the stove.

[Parrothead]

Let me just say that my neighbors said that when they saw our lawn get long, they knew that I had given birth because I was mowing it up to the bitter end! There was a period of time when I felt like I was doing both spouse A & B's job. We talked about it and renegotiated some of the dispersal of tasks. Dh is extremely allergic to grass. He is/was willing to hire a service. As the one handling the checkbook, I wasn't. I'd rather take on the chore than to pay the money. However, dh takes over kitchen duty whenever he can and frequently will "detail" the stove.

Oh, too funny! The power company guy came to read the meter one day while I was 7 months prego and mowing the lawn with a push mower. :D

 

I do take care of the lawn and flower beds, but it is a passion of mine. I don't do snow removal often (only when dh is out of town and we all know how that goes) since dh had to have the monster of a snow blower.

[Murphy101]

If you've directed this at me:

 

What if it is lost? Shouldn't it have to be earned back?

 

With your suggestion Spouse B should be doing the yard work and the garbage. Which puts no responsibility on Spouse A. Spouse A has a free Saturday because Spouse B is doing all the Saturday chores now.

 

Nothing was particuliarly directed at anyone. Mostly typing out loud in response to the thread in general.

 

Nope. With my suggestion, Spouse B needs to sit down with Spouse A and say, "wth is your deal with the freaking trash wo/man? I thought we had an agreement, but it isn't working out. What can we do to help you resolve this trash situation?"

 

Of course, I think prenups are mostly stupid, with a few exceptions. I also think the argument "I didn't sign up for this when I married you" is foolish. People and lives change. It's common knowledge. Acting shocked or having a fit when the status quo has to be adjusted, even drasticly, shows a immaturity or an unrealistic view of life and marriage when they gave their vows.

[Murphy101]

I will never have a nice yard. until the boys were old enough to mow it, it was perpetually over grown and a blight to the neighborhood. Now it is cut. And that is it. I just do not care about grass and dh has allergies. I doubt he has mowed our yards more than 10 times in all these years. I was more likely than him to do it until somewhere around the 5th baby. since then, I just don't have that on my top 10 to do list.

[ange]

I ask this because in the "how do you talk to your husbands" thread, many people seemed to equate being bluntly honest as being seen as disrespectful. I see tone of voice, put-downs and certain attitudes (belittling or demeaning kinds of attitudes) as disrespectful. You can use a syrupy voice and still disrespect someone, bless their heart.

:iagree: Body language, tone of voice, attitude, "rolling of the eyes" ...all of these can communicate disrespect. You can be honest, put still speak with an attitude of love and respect. However, some people use honesty as free license to be disrespectful and unkind.

[Peela]

Its definitely where you are coming from rather than how it appears. Its an issue I have had to work on in myself- there were areas I did not respect my dh and I had to train myself to because in some areas, it didn't come naturally.

I think coming from a line of feminist women who were generally disappointed in their men influenced me and I have had to consciously overcome an underlying disrespect.

[Ginevra]

You can make him earn it if you want...it's your marriage, and I'm not trying to 'sell' you on any of this. I'm just saying that, in general, men want the respect from their wives to be unconditional...maybe think of it as 'respect for the office of Husband.' Don't know if that helps...I'm running out of ideas to get this across in a helpful way.

 

Barry, I agree with all of your posts to this thread.

 

Sometimes, I think you have to treat with respect even if it's a stretch right now. (Please note: I'm not talking about abusive or extreme situations; I'm speaking to the "not-helping-me-out" variety.) I don't see this as pretending, or being fake. Sometimes you have to "prime the pump." You have to put something in before anything can come out.

 

As far as help with necessary tasks, I have no problem asking dh to do something because I need help or because he is the logical person equipped to do it. I already know he is a procrastinator; by asking him to do something, I have to be willing to relinquish it to his capable hands and not helicopter around because he's not jumping right to it the way I would. There are other tasks that I just know better than to want or expect him to do because he will leave it undone for so long it will drive me bonkers and breed resentment. I don't let things turn into a standoff: "The suitcase is going to sit in the hallway until he unpacks it, so-help-me-God, cause I'm not touching it as long as I live!" These sort of walls help nothing. If I had already said, "Please unpack the suitcase, it's bugging me," and he hadn't and it was still bugging me days later, honestly? I would just go unpack the darn thing. I don't worry about who gets points for getting away with what.